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golden rule in application is unclear

linate
Posts: 1,137
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12/29/2017 2:47:10 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
do unto others as you'd have them do unto you.

one might argue the golden rule is clear, but could only referring in that instance that the rule is stated clearly. i agree with that. that's why i said 'in application' in the opening statement, it's not clear.

if it is clear, what are the guiding principles that can determine how to act in accordance with it?

instead of a mess of ideas, given this idea is hard for me to discuss in the abstract, i will give an example.

for example. John is doing cocaine, and only dabbles in it and views it as nondebateably harmless in the bigger picture. Bob thinks any cocaine use is going too far, and is not debatable to say otherwise. Bob personally would want someone to invervene if he was doing cocaine. on the other hand, Bob also would want people to respect his wishes on things he sees as debateably okay or nondebateable.

does Bob intervene, based on the fact that he'd want intervened with on cocaine use, especially given he personally sees it as undebateably not okay? or does he respect John's wishes given John must at least view cocaine use as at least debateably to nondebateably okay and Bob wuldn't want someone else intervening if he views something as debatebable to nondebateble?

all one is really able to say is that the golden rule can provide some very general guiding rules. we first have to assume that we should approach it subjectively, which is debateble, instead of looking for an outside standard.

-do you act based on your own perceptions of what's debateable, or seek some more objective source?
-plus there's objective and subjective things to consider. some people might view certain acts as okay, but society and pretty objectively, their acts are not okay. so when do we defer to their subjective reality, versus the objective nature of the situation?

but after that, so what gives? does Bob intervene or not? if you say yes he should, then he's placing his own view of cocaine over John's, or at least his own view of whether it's debateable over John's. and, Bob is ignoring the prospect that he could ahve deferred to John given John views it as debateable, and Bob would want left along on things he views as debateable.

given it's a tough call, Bob might want some outside standard to help guide him. but given it seem like th golden rule is meant to be subjective, he's left with a decision with no way of knowing hte best way to approach it.

reliance on the golden rule doesn't really direct how to approach it. it admittedly gives you food for thought and directs you in a laudable way in general, but how to respond isn't so clear cut.
Waterborne
Posts: 70
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12/29/2017 3:11:56 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
The golden rule is an oversimplified phrase that even toddlers can understand and has its value only in its oversimplification. Society teaches information to the young that is incorrect because it is hard to teach them the full story.

Bob's situation is not black and white. If he is a weekend cocaine user only, he is fine. If he is an addict and it could potentially kill him, I would force him to get help if I thought the chance of me helping him was worth the risk of exacerbating his downward spiral.
EtrnlVw
Posts: 5,981
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12/29/2017 9:21:51 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 12/29/2017 2:47:10 PM, linate wrote:
do unto others as you'd have them do unto you.

one might argue the golden rule is clear, but could only referring in that instance that the rule is stated clearly. i agree with that. that's why i said 'in application' in the opening statement, it's not clear.

if it is clear, what are the guiding principles that can determine how to act in accordance with it?

instead of a mess of ideas, given this idea is hard for me to discuss in the abstract, i will give an example.

for example. John is doing cocaine, and only dabbles in it and views it as nondebateably harmless in the bigger picture. Bob thinks any cocaine use is going too far, and is not debatable to say otherwise. Bob personally would want someone to invervene if he was doing cocaine. on the other hand, Bob also would want people to respect his wishes on things he sees as debateably okay or nondebateable.

does Bob intervene, based on the fact that he'd want intervened with on cocaine use, especially given he personally sees it as undebateably not okay? or does he respect John's wishes given John must at least view cocaine use as at least debateably to nondebateably okay and Bob wuldn't want someone else intervening if he views something as debatebable to nondebateble?

all one is really able to say is that the golden rule can provide some very general guiding rules. we first have to assume that we should approach it subjectively, which is debateble, instead of looking for an outside standard.

-do you act based on your own perceptions of what's debateable, or seek some more objective source?
-plus there's objective and subjective things to consider. some people might view certain acts as okay, but society and pretty objectively, their acts are not okay. so when do we defer to their subjective reality, versus the objective nature of the situation?

but after that, so what gives? does Bob intervene or not? if you say yes he should, then he's placing his own view of cocaine over John's, or at least his own view of whether it's debateable over John's. and, Bob is ignoring the prospect that he could ahve deferred to John given John views it as debateable, and Bob would want left along on things he views as debateable.

given it's a tough call, Bob might want some outside standard to help guide him. but given it seem like th golden rule is meant to be subjective, he's left with a decision with no way of knowing hte best way to approach it.

reliance on the golden rule doesn't really direct how to approach it. it admittedly gives you food for thought and directs you in a laudable way in general, but how to respond isn't so clear cut.

It's not about the second person but the first, you. It's not about ratting people out but applying it to yourself and how you relate and interact with other souls one on one. The scriptures touch on generalities because the same principle can apply in many ways, almost unlimited ways. So you have to understand simplicity rides along side of truth. Though the truth is dynamic it is simplistic. The scriptures are dynamic yet simplistic.
ebuc
Posts: 2,912
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12/31/2017 1:07:02 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
Golden Rule Variations

The golden rule "do unto others as you would have them do onto you} has
a common variation in many countries, cultures and religions. I wondered if there
were any other rules with such commonality e.g,

Is there a silver rule also?

..'Seek fair and just resolution with compassion and empathy for those who violate the laws and moral codes of humanity or its distinct tribes.'...

Perhaps a wooden rule?
...'Forgiveness by God is instantaneous, forgiveness by humans takes time'.

Or the bone rule?
..'Eye for eye and toothe for a tooth. [im not sure if any animals other than humans practice this concept'....

Molecular rule? ---'Share not with your cousin what you would not have
them share with you.'

Quantum rule? ---Know that the uncertainty of mind, being common to all
humans, does not neccessitate chaos.'...
" U "niverse > Universe > Universe I -verse < you-verse we-verse > them-verse
Gravitational SPACE ( + )
Dark Energy SPACE )-(
Time >66.4< --frequency ^v^v
Mind/Intellect 12--3-fold 4-fold and 5-fold
Biological *8* --bilateral four's
Spin <left 6 right >---Pitch, Yaw Roll{ 3 * 2 = 6 }
IS >2<--positive and negative tetrhaedron
Dirty.Harry
Posts: 2,625
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1/20/2018 4:00:39 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 12/31/2017 1:07:02 PM, ebuc wrote:
Golden Rule Variations

The golden rule "do unto others as you would have them do onto you} has
a common variation in many countries, cultures and religions. I wondered if there
were any other rules with such commonality e.g,

Is there a silver rule also?

..'Seek fair and just resolution with compassion and empathy for those who violate the laws and moral codes of humanity or its distinct tribes.'...

Perhaps a wooden rule?
...'Forgiveness by God is instantaneous, forgiveness by humans takes time'.

Or the bone rule?
..'Eye for eye and toothe for a tooth. [im not sure if any animals other than humans practice this concept'....

Molecular rule? ---'Share not with your cousin what you would not have
them share with you.'

Quantum rule? ---Know that the uncertainty of mind, being common to all
humans, does not neccessitate chaos.'...

More horse sh!t? don't you ever get tired of everyone (yes it's everyone) either ignoring you or ridiculing you?
ebuc
Posts: 2,912
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1/26/2018 5:01:31 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
Golden Rule Variations with addendum at bottom --- 1/25/2018 ----

The golden rule "do unto others as you would have them do onto you} has
a common variation in many countries, cultures and religions. I wondered if there
were any other rules with such commonality e.g,

Is there a silver rule also?

..'Seek fair and just resolution with compassion and empathy for those who violate the laws and moral codes of humanity or its distinct tribes.'...

Perhaps a wooden rule?
...'Forgiveness by God is instantaneous, forgiveness by humans takes time'.

Or the bone rule?
..'Eye for eye and tooth for a tooth. ---im not sure if any animals other than humans practice this concept....

Molecular rule? ---'Share not with your cousin what you would not have
them share with you.'

Quantum rule? ---Know that the uncertainty of mind, being common to all
humans, does not neccessitate chaos....

Space-time rule ---Pee Here Now---- a variation of Ram Dass book title "Be Here Now'...
" U "niverse > Universe > Universe I -verse < you-verse we-verse > them-verse
Gravitational SPACE ( + )
Dark Energy SPACE )-(
Time >66.4< --frequency ^v^v
Mind/Intellect 12--3-fold 4-fold and 5-fold
Biological *8* --bilateral four's
Spin <left 6 right >---Pitch, Yaw Roll{ 3 * 2 = 6 }
IS >2<--positive and negative tetrhaedron
Dirty.Harry
Posts: 2,625
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1/27/2018 6:43:10 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 1/26/2018 5:01:31 PM, ebuc wrote:
Golden Rule Variations with addendum at bottom --- 1/25/2018 ----

The golden rule "do unto others as you would have them do onto you} has
a common variation in many countries, cultures and religions. I wondered if there
were any other rules with such commonality e.g,

Is there a silver rule also?

..'Seek fair and just resolution with compassion and empathy for those who violate the laws and moral codes of humanity or its distinct tribes.'...

Perhaps a wooden rule?
...'Forgiveness by God is instantaneous, forgiveness by humans takes time'.

Or the bone rule?
..'Eye for eye and tooth for a tooth. ---im not sure if any animals other than humans practice this concept....

Molecular rule? ---'Share not with your cousin what you would not have
them share with you.'

Quantum rule? ---Know that the uncertainty of mind, being common to all
humans, does not neccessitate chaos....

Space-time rule ---Pee Here Now---- a variation of Ram Dass book title "Be Here Now'...

More horse sh!t? don't you ever get tired of everyone (yes it's everyone) either ignoring you or ridiculing you?