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the genius of trust?

DPMartin
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6/11/2019 11:26:25 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
Our lives don't matter much, Except to ourselves and the few that learn to care for or about us, Of which we are unable to keep. This life we receive when born into the world is all we have, No more than that. Yet all living creatures trust, Or they don"t live. Even if trusting something that isn"t to one's wellbeing that may even cost one's life, But we still must trust to live even if we die doing it. Therefore, What is, Or should be trusted? And in truth is trust the most valuable thing? Even though our lives don"t matter.
Leaning
Posts: 2,449
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6/12/2019 1:24:38 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
I think trust is just something most of us tend to do naturally. Though whether it is natural due to nature or nurture, I couldn't say. Seems to aid in cooperation rather well, Society and all that. Though there's a mix of people being trustworthy as well.

Trustworthy I would say because of their ambitions, Morals, And rules.

One of the reasons I'd never enter a criminal enterprise that was solely concerned with money, Is I don't understand honor among thieves. There is honor in criminals who turn to crime for concepts, Ideologies, Beliefs, Just to survive under the wire when poor. But just money, I'd expect to go down like the Joker in The Dark Knight.

Most people I think simply don't have the ambition and desire to act like maniacs. Makes it easier to trust people as we see them act rightly. Easier for us to act rightly to them as well in responsive habit.

Though, For myself I have a bit of trouble trusting people. I do for the most part, But only the most part. A degree of trust for other people is as normal as trusting the floor to withstand your weight or a keyboard to function. We don't trust all people equally, Same as we don't trust all objects equally. We trust based on performance.
Leaning
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6/12/2019 6:12:43 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
Reply&Quote function is glitched. There are ways around it though. For instance if you delete all of the post you are replying to.
DPMartin
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6/12/2019 7:00:00 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
Agreements facilitate cooperation, Trust is another matter, Though one could say the need to trust promotes agreements. But most agreements aren"t made with trust in mind using stipulations in agreements to hold the participants accountable should they become negligent to fulfill said agreement according to the agreement. (a written contract is better than a hand shake should things go south, Or written law stipulating what an offence is, And what should be done about it, Rather than tribal like judgements) Thing is, In the animal kingdom agreements are not used, And they still are required to trust to live.
So, What is trusted, One can see that birds eating seeds left on the ground trust that they are in imminent danger even if what is perceived as a posable threat isn"t a threat. Which could be instinct and or experience considering experience can lead them to trust otherwise and not be startled and fly away.

But again, Rules morals and law or having rules morals and law has nothing to do with trust on a basic level because, Men break them and the corrupt pretend to uphold them in many cases. The up-right need no law to be up-right, Because the righteous law is based on the up-right.

thanks for the info
Leaning
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6/12/2019 8:15:41 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
So if trust can be had that you can punish someone enough to dissuade them of breaking an agreement, Or trust can be had in yourself overcoming trust being broken. . . Why is trust so important and valuable to humans?

I'd agree that it would still be pleasant to have trust in others. But based upon your last post it doesn't seem necessary.
DPMartin
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6/12/2019 10:50:25 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
Just what do you mean by "trust being had"? A misplaced expectation is manifested in the denial of the fulfillment of the expectation. If I don"t trust you to pay the vig I have entrusted others to get whatever you have to pay the vig. Either way I will get my expectation fulfilled that I invested in, Which is much more then I have loaned you. You mentioned money before, Can one trust what people are willing to do for money? If one experiences how much people value money, Then one knows and that is what one trusts.

Trust isn"t acquired on the part of the trustor; it"s acquired by one being trusted by another. As in gain someone"s trust, But all living creatures exercise the act of trust 24/7 in something. Just because you don"t trust something doesn"t mean you don"t trust something else, More so.

And "Why is trust so important and valuable to humans? " the OP is already asking that in so many words.
Leaning
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6/13/2019 1:44:53 AM
Posted: 1 month ago
By trust being had, I just meant that a person could have trust in controls other than the persons good will.

Good will is usually what one would think isn't it? When one thinks of humans and trust.

But it's easy enough not to trust a person at all, But instead trust them to act in their own selfish interest. Kind of contradict myself there, But you can't really say you trust a person, If you only trust that they are afraid of your superior power. Or only trust that they want your money. That doesn't quite seem like 'trust in a person to me.
DPMartin
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6/14/2019 1:47:53 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
Why do you have to trust in a person? One can come into agreements knowing that should the agreement fail one is has accepted the loss. One losses everything one has in this life including the life received when born into the world anyway, Just what is so important to trust a person for? Agreements of transaction happen everyday, Between people that trust or don't trust one another.
Leaning
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6/15/2019 3:12:27 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
Mainly I think, Because it is pleasant. A person has to attempt to interact with others and come to agreements with them (Even with little to no trust). Because it is difficult for a single man to be an island. Many of the finer parts of life (Luxuries) are only possible because of interactions. But it is more pleasant to interact with those we trust. More so it is more reliable. Agreements are able to go more successfully with people we have trust in. Neighborhoods are easier to live in, The more we trust people, And the more they are worthy of that trust.
DPMartin
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6/19/2019 1:48:00 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
can't argue with that, But just about every interaction is in agreement if some sort, Then there's what is not in agreement of course.

thing is, Is agreement required to trust? Or is an agreement required for the righteous manifestation of trust? Basically the agreement is the witness or testimony that the trust or what was entrusted was correctly executed, And or incorrectly executed.
DPMartin
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6/20/2019 1:37:20 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
could it be said that most if not all trust, Is verified and or proved by agreement?

if one decides to entrust someone for whatever reason without an agreement, Then is the expectation justified?

but if one has an agreement then the expectations are provable or verifiable by all parties involved and the expectations are justified. Hence the agreement testifies of the fulfillment according to what was entrusted and that the expectations are justified.
Leaning
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6/20/2019 6:27:13 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
Some people trust easier than they ought, Others are leery to the point of paranoia.
I think most people trust without too much verification really. Trusting more or less depending on habit and circumstance.
People grew up in nice neighborhood trust easy maybe,
shady neighborhood trust hard maybe.

Most people 'do verify trustworthiness of others I'd suppose.

If I'm on my deathbed and I leave the accounting of my will to my brother without him ever agreeing to it. The trust would still be justified I believe.
If I leave the accounting of my will to a random person, The trust would not be justified I believe. Far less so if I left it to a criminal.
If I left it to an acquaintance that I knew, Somewhat, Though not much justified.

What changed? Not quite the agreement I think. Rather the individual trusted. Though if there was an agreement or legal document, More trust might be had in the agreement and bindings of law. Though not quite so because of the person.
DPMartin
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6/21/2019 1:53:27 PM
Posted: 1 month ago
if you leave the accounting of your will to your brother without an agreement then your exspectation isn't justified, And he couldn't be held to executing something he didn't agree to.