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Catastrophic Moral Horrors and Libertarianism

Noumena
Posts: 6,047
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1/24/2013 3:17:51 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Grape vs. Kinesis "Revolved Holocaust denial is worse than denial of global warming". Do it monkeys.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
Grape
Posts: 989
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1/24/2013 3:20:34 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
I think we're thinking about this in two different ways. The damage caused by climate change denial is definitely far greater than the damage caused by Holocaust denial. I was defending the idea that we should judge a Holocaust denier more harshly because his motives and intentions are likely to be worse. By contrast, the typical climate change denier is probably more like to be uneducated than malicious. On a personal level, I am much more sympathetic to a person who causes a great evil accidentally than a person who causes a small evil intentionally.
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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1/24/2013 3:25:37 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 1/24/2013 3:20:34 PM, Grape wrote:
I think we're thinking about this in two different ways. The damage caused by climate change denial is definitely far greater than the damage caused by Holocaust denial. I was defending the idea that we should judge a Holocaust denier more harshly because his motives and intentions are likely to be worse. By contrast, the typical climate change denier is probably more like to be uneducated than malicious. On a personal level, I am much more sympathetic to a person who causes a great evil accidentally than a person who causes a small evil intentionally.

lol, then I don't think we have much of a disagreement. Sorry Spinko.
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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1/24/2013 3:26:57 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 1/24/2013 3:25:37 PM, Kinesis wrote:
At 1/24/2013 3:20:34 PM, Grape wrote:
I think we're thinking about this in two different ways. The damage caused by climate change denial is definitely far greater than the damage caused by Holocaust denial. I was defending the idea that we should judge a Holocaust denier more harshly because his motives and intentions are likely to be worse. By contrast, the typical climate change denier is probably more like to be uneducated than malicious. On a personal level, I am much more sympathetic to a person who causes a great evil accidentally than a person who causes a small evil intentionally.

lol, then I don't think we have much of a disagreement. Sorry Spinko.

BTW, I'm curious about your solution to the red/white ball problem in that other thread. Could you revisit that thread?
Skepsikyma
Posts: 9,514
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1/24/2013 10:52:13 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
As someone of a semi-libertarian bent, I would have to disagree with the quoted poster. Classically, rights are derived from the social contract. Some freedoms under natural law are sacrificed in order to protect more important ones, like life and property. As such, anything which poses an existential threat to the social contract nullifies the entire concept of rights at the root. Even from an Objectivist perspective it could be argued that, since rights are the rules which govern mutually beneficial interactions among men, any event which threatens the human race itself would render individual rights moot. No matter how you look at it, rights govern human conduct and are meaningless without any humans around to apply them to. To say that we ought to choose the former in the case of being presented with a choice between the extirpation of our species or the taking of some money by force for the purpose of building a laser ablation device is just silly. It seems like the sort of opinion that is held by people who either view rights as a sort of inviolate and unjustified floating abstraction or as a heavenly gift from whichever deity they believe in.
"Partout ou vous verrez un autel, la se trouve la civilisation."
- Joseph de Maistre -

"Woe that I live in bitter days,
As God is setting like a sun
And in his place, as lord and slave,
Man raises forth his heinous throne."
- Translation of 'Rhyfel', by Hedd Wyn -

Virtutem videant intabescantque relicta
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 6,963
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1/25/2013 10:51:19 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 1/19/2013 1:49:49 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Furthermore, libertarians =/= anarchists. Libertarians believe that those things that can't be provided by the private sector should be provided by the public sector. Since it's very unlikely that the private sector would send a bunch of nukes onto an asteroid, destroying the asteroid becomes a function of government.

How the hell can you be a Libertarian who believes in the NAP and ownership, while at the same time forcing rulers on people?
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Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 6,963
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1/25/2013 10:51:51 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 1/25/2013 10:51:19 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 1/19/2013 1:49:49 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Furthermore, libertarians =/= anarchists. Libertarians believe that those things that can't be provided by the private sector should be provided by the public sector. Since it's very unlikely that the private sector would send a bunch of nukes onto an asteroid, destroying the asteroid becomes a function of government.

How the hell can you be a Libertarian who believes in the NAP and self-ownership, while at the same time forcing rulers on people?

Merry fix'dmas
DRUG HARM: http://imgur.com...
Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.

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