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Blade-of-Truth
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5/15/2016 7:23:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/15/2016 6:04:38 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 5/15/2016 5:43:05 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 5/15/2016 3:26:30 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 5/15/2016 8:46:00 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 5/14/2016 2:37:57 AM, Double_R wrote:
The joint chiefs of staff gather to discuss an urgent national security matter. After laying out all of the options they find a very big decision has to be made. They get the secretary of defense on the line and advise him of the situation.

After hearing all of the concerns, the secretary says "Well gentleman, this is a big decision, one I can't make on my own. Excuse me while I find out what the President wants us to do".

The secretary of defense then picks up the phone and calls... Donald Trump.

My fellow Americans... Are you really this stupid?

I think he'd handle the situation rationally and fully weigh the options and advice of the gentleman advising him. Idk why people keep treating him like some kind of moron, his personal degree of success is something that only a brilliant person could achieve. He graduated from Wharton... Wharton. Regardless of your personal opinion only a fool would say he's dumb, stupid, or ignorant.

You're talking about a guy who believes Barack Obama was born in Kenya, and Ted Cruz's father was in on the JFK assassination. That kind of thinking is really all one needs to know to understand that he is not fit for the position, not that there is not plenty more.

Yes and Hillary believed a private email server was a smart decision, claims she will end the wage gap when her own foundation has been shown to have one, and takes contributions from countries that fund ISIS.... I ask you, sincerely, which one of these two are worse when serious issues are brought to light?

You also fail to understand that, unlike Hillary, claims are only damaging on a social level, whereas Hillary's errors have cost the lives of American diplomats and soldiers already.

Oh God... Benghazi? Really?

It's an excellent case study for her leadership ability in a position that entails international duties. That's all I'll say on that.

I am not going to sit here and get into a tit for tat between Hillary and Donald because unlike Donald... Hillary actually has a record to scrutinize and spin (which is all you just did).

Fair enough, but that doesn't mean the scrutiny isn't valid or worthy of being weighed by everyone. Her record is a poor one at best, full of hypocrisy, failures, and blind loyalty to her financial backers regardless of their own values or dealings which hurt American interests. What I'm saying is that if you truly look at her record, any sane person would agree that she is unfit for the office. There are several democrats I'd rather see in office than her.

Donald has no policy positions (because he doesn't understand the first thing about our government or how the world works) so the only thing we can possibly scrutinize is his character and apparent abilities.

That isn't necessarily fair. We can't just automatically dismiss his international experience in business, his success in the television industry (an incredibly hard industry to succeed in), his expansion into multiple fields of industry with high amounts of success, or even his recent success in politics by taking out 17 career politicians in the primaries - all of which lends value to his knowledge on how the world works.

As for the amount of knowledge he has in regard to how the government works, the good thing about a President is that he has the greatest minds in the world at his disposal. These people care about their careers, not whose butt they have to kiss to get to the next promotion, so it's reasonable to assume that these professionals serving in advisory roles would be of the highest quality and have a willingness to provide him with all the information he'll need to make an educated decision on any matter.

And what he has shown is that he is an immature, narcissistic, ego-driven, pathologically lying conspiracy theorist who's only demonstrated good quality is that he can read a room and sell himself.

The fact that he can read a room and sell himself so well gives credence to the fact that he isn't unintelligent. As for the other claims, the only one I see any harm in is the immature description. Clearly no "immature" person could achieve the success he has, this is just common sense. Narcissism is only bad for those who aren't narcissistic, it's a powerful trait to have in true leadership roles. Most people don't interact with CEO's on the daily though, so they wouldn't know this truth about the world and view it as a bad trait (because it is in nearly every other position in life). The same goes for ego-driven. As for pathological liar or conspiracy theorist, I sincerely don't believe either of these. Everyone lies and he's no pathological liar - and him being a conspiracy theorist isn't necessarily a bad thing in my opinion. Lots of conspiracies have turned out to be true.

His candidacy is a joke, and any of the 20 other candidates who stepped into the 2016 race would have been by far a more responsible choice.

This isn't true by any means. You cannot seriously claim that *any* of these 20 candidates would have been a far more responsible choice. We can debate this if you'd like, and go through each one individually. You'd have an incredibly high burden to uphold though if you want to take this route.
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Greyparrot
Posts: 21,953
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5/15/2016 7:29:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Really this whole thread boils down to this.

If Trump is stupid, then Democracy is a failure.
The extinction of the species is worse than the extinction of the nation, which is worse than the extinction of the tribe, which is worse than the extinction of the family, which is worse than the extinction of the individual. The second he reverses that list of priorities, he becomes a coward, and would be summarily disposed of by any civilized society that values its own survival.
Double_R
Posts: 5,039
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5/15/2016 8:48:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/15/2016 7:23:27 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 5/15/2016 6:04:38 PM, Double_R wrote:
Oh God... Benghazi? Really?

It's an excellent case study for her leadership ability in a position that entails international duties. That's all I'll say on that.

I find it to be an excellent case study on how facts can be overwritten by repetition when it comes to public perception.

I am not going to sit here and get into a tit for tat between Hillary and Donald because unlike Donald... Hillary actually has a record to scrutinize and spin (which is all you just did).

Fair enough, but that doesn't mean the scrutiny isn't valid or worthy of being weighed by everyone. Her record is a poor one at best, full of hypocrisy, failures, and blind loyalty to her financial backers regardless of their own values or dealings which hurt American interests. What I'm saying is that if you truly look at her record, any sane person would agree that she is unfit for the office. There are several democrats I'd rather see in office than her.

I agree that the scrutiny is worthy of consideration and even disturbing, but calling her unfit for office in an election against Donald Trump is ludicrous. They aren't on the same playing field. My cousin is a good basketball player, but the context of that description changes when you put him on a court with LeBron James. Clinton is a politician, and when you have been on the highest stages of politics for over 20 years you are going to have things on your record that are questionable at the very least. That's inevitable, so I really am not that impressed when people list things they don't like about Clinton's record, especially when the alternative option for the POTUS is a real estate developer and reality TV star.

Donald has no policy positions (because he doesn't understand the first thing about our government or how the world works) so the only thing we can possibly scrutinize is his character and apparent abilities.

That isn't necessarily fair. We can't just automatically dismiss his international experience in business, his success in the television industry (an incredibly hard industry to succeed in), his expansion into multiple fields of industry with high amounts of success, or even his recent success in politics by taking out 17 career politicians in the primaries - all of which lends value to his knowledge on how the world works.

When I say he doesn't understand how the world works I am referring to his lack of foreign policy experience.

And campaigning is not the same thing as governing, so the fact that he beat out the other 17 candidates I feel says more about the voters than his political abilities.

As for the amount of knowledge he has in regard to how the government works, the good thing about a President is that he has the greatest minds in the world at his disposal. These people care about their careers, not whose butt they have to kiss to get to the next promotion, so it's reasonable to assume that these professionals serving in advisory roles would be of the highest quality and have a willingness to provide him with all the information he'll need to make an educated decision on any matter.

This is the typical cop out. Every leader has people who work under them to advise them on the specifics before a decision is made. A CEO for example will have someone in charge of finance, legal, human resources, etc. Each of these positions know more about that particular area better than the person in charge. This does not mean that we can put anyone in that position and experience is not an important factor.

When I ran a small real estate company I had two attorney's, an accountant, and a broker. Each of them gave me their advise regularly, and I often noticed just how each of them seemed to disregard any other point of view. There is only one person looking at it from every point of view, and without a strong understanding of the industry that person will fall pray to whomever makes their case most convincingly. I made up my own mind many times going against the loudest voices advising me, and it worked out nearly every time. I was able to do that because I had an understanding of what I was doing. The same cannot be said about Trump with regards to running a country.

The fact that he can read a room and sell himself so well gives credence to the fact that he isn't unintelligent. As for the other claims, the only one I see any harm in is the immature description. Clearly no "immature" person could achieve the success he has, this is just common sense. Narcissism is only bad for those who aren't narcissistic, it's a powerful trait to have in true leadership roles. Most people don't interact with CEO's on the daily though, so they wouldn't know this truth about the world and view it as a bad trait (because it is in nearly every other position in life). The same goes for ego-driven. As for pathological liar or conspiracy theorist, I sincerely don't believe either of these. Everyone lies and he's no pathological liar - and him being a conspiracy theorist isn't necessarily a bad thing in my opinion. Lots of conspiracies have turned out to be true.

Not a pathological liar? I don't think you have paid very close attention to him.

I find the conspiracy theory thing to be a very big problem because it speaks to his ability to utilize critical thinking, which is essential for someone in the oval office, especially when they have no experience.

Ego is a very big problem when it comes to decision making. Everyone knows this.

Immaturity may not have a direct impact on anything relevant, but it certainly raises questions about his ability to handle the pressure of the oval office. And besides, does it really not bother you that while Hillary is campaigning on her proposals regarding healthcare and woman's rights, Donald is busy talking about Bill's sex life?

His candidacy is a joke, and any of the 20 other candidates who stepped into the 2016 race would have been by far a more responsible choice.

This isn't true by any means. You cannot seriously claim that *any* of these 20 candidates would have been a far more responsible choice. We can debate this if you'd like, and go through each one individually. You'd have an incredibly high burden to uphold though if you want to take this route.

I am absolutely serious but I have no interest in debating it. I don't mind political discussions but sitting around for hours sifting through one source after another fact finding and fact checking just to be able to call out someone on their BS is not how I care to spend my free time.
Double_R
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5/15/2016 8:58:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/15/2016 7:29:22 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Really this whole thread boils down to this.

If Trump is stupid, then Democracy is a failure.

Hence, why this thread is addressed to "my fellow Americans".

I wouldn't call democracy as a whole a failure though, it is more like a lost battle in the midst of a war. And in this case I think we are seeing the effects of years of republicans fostering an environment of hatred towards the government itself. I mean what do you expect your base voters to feel when you spend years telling them about how scary and evil government is? It amazes me now to see republicans look around and wonder where Trump came from, the outsider appeal that he rode to the nomination was their creation.
twocupcakes
Posts: 3,441
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5/16/2016 10:40:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago

You're focusing on two little events in a long life.

Getting a college degree does not make you smart. It is not that tough get into Ivy League schools when your family is loaded and has connections. It is also not that tough to "succeed" is business when your father is a loaded real estate mogul and takes you under his wing.

He attended Wharton for his MBA, not his undergrad degree, so yes - it does make him "smart". You wouldn't call someone who graduated from Harvard dumb would you? Wharton is even more prestigious when it comes to finance programs, which is what he studied there. While I'd agree that getting in is somewhat easier if you come from an important or well-connected family, performing well and graduating is something he accomplished on his own.

No did does not have an MBA (why did you think that?). He did not even get into Wharton from high school, he transfered there after 2 years at another school. It is reported he was let in due to a connection.

"Another biographer, Gwenda Blair, wrote in 2001 that Trump was admitted to Wharton on a special favor from a "friendly" admissions officer. The officer had known Trump"s older brother, Freddy."

http://www.thedp.com...

In terms of business-success, he took his fathers business and expanded it ten-fold into numerous other industries. Into fields his father had no knowledge on, and yet he still succeeded. So, again, you're looking at all this from a very misinformed perspective.

Many of his other industries failed miserably. Many real estate deals also failed. If you have money and invest it in real estate/companies, it will grow over time. Trump succeeded in creating in becoming a celebrity, creating a brand, and having a reality show. Trump is more Kim Kardashian than Warren Buffett.


Okay, well if you're going to dismiss anyone who attended and graduated from the best finance program in the world then there is nothing further for us to discuss. You clearly don't argue based on logic and reason. You aren't even accounting for the fact that he'd have military advisers who've spent their whole adult lives in this field acquiring knowledge. He obviously listens to his business advisers, his campaign advisers, and his financial advisers, so I see no reason for him to break that trend now.

Interesting, that you say that I do no argue based on logic and reason when you incorrectly thought that Trump had his MBA.A lot of people have college degrees. Getting one does not mean that you are smart. I do not think Trump is a Floyd Mayweather like moron, but a lot of people can get college degrees, not a lot of people say the stupid sh!t Trump says.

If you want to know who'd start up another war - look no further than across the aisle. Crooked Hillary is certainly no saint.

Hillary Clinton is definitely not a saint. However, the UK never held a vote on if to ban her, and she never advocated torture and killing terrorist families.
Wylted
Posts: 25,970
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5/16/2016 10:53:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/14/2016 2:37:57 AM, Double_R wrote:
The joint chiefs of staff gather to discuss an urgent national security matter. After laying out all of the options they find a very big decision has to be made. They get the secretary of defense on the line and advise him of the situation.

After hearing all of the concerns, the secretary says "Well gentleman, this is a big decision, one I can't make on my own. Excuse me while I find out what the President wants us to do".

The secretary of defense then picks up the phone and calls... Donald Trump.

My fellow Americans... Are you really this stupid?

I know it's kinda popular to hate onbDonald Trump. Part of this hatebis due to just plain old party loyalty, Donald Trump has a liberal platform, but because an R is behind his name, the liberals ignore the fact he is pro-choice (though he is pandering to conservatives by fibbing on that for the moment) he wants to raise the minimum wage, make it easier for mexicans to legally immigrate to America, opposed TPP and against the war In Iraq.

Anyone let's just ignore the fact that both parties could xomplwtely switch platforms and you would still insult Republicans and support Democrats.

What exactly is wrong with Trump making foreign policy decisions? Something substantive not some silly thing like "he is racist because he said that some mexicans rape, and anyone who believes that any mexican has ever raped somebody is racist, so he would be bad at making foreign policy decisions".
Wylted
Posts: 25,970
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5/16/2016 10:55:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/14/2016 3:25:16 AM, Double_R wrote:
At 5/14/2016 3:12:11 AM, Peepette wrote:
At 5/14/2016 2:51:14 AM, TBR wrote:
At 5/14/2016 2:37:57 AM, Double_R wrote:
The joint chiefs of staff gather to discuss an urgent national security matter. After laying out all of the options they find a very big decision has to be made. They get the secretary of defense on the line and advise him of the situation.

After hearing all of the concerns, the secretary says "Well gentleman, this is a big decision, one I can't make on my own. Excuse me while I find out what the President wants us to do".

The secretary of defense then picks up the phone and calls... Donald Trump.

My fellow Americans... Are you really this stupid?

Well... The Secretary is Carson, and he is praying to god, right? So, someone who is "very good" that Trump hired assesses the situation, and...

forget it. Its just too comical to even mock.

My head shakes in woe at the prospect of this clown having his finger on THE button.

Yea, the same guy who says that the way to defeat Isis is to take out their families...

And yet an ever surprising number of people continue to take him seriously. I am still confident that he will not be our next President, but the damage done to the level of respect I had for our country as a whole when making our biggest decisions is already beyond repair.

Okay, so questioning a suspected terrorists family crosses a line. Cool, maybe we should just outlaw police interrigations altogether
Wylted
Posts: 25,970
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5/16/2016 11:02:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/15/2016 3:26:30 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 5/15/2016 8:46:00 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 5/14/2016 2:37:57 AM, Double_R wrote:
The joint chiefs of staff gather to discuss an urgent national security matter. After laying out all of the options they find a very big decision has to be made. They get the secretary of defense on the line and advise him of the situation.

After hearing all of the concerns, the secretary says "Well gentleman, this is a big decision, one I can't make on my own. Excuse me while I find out what the President wants us to do".

The secretary of defense then picks up the phone and calls... Donald Trump.

My fellow Americans... Are you really this stupid?

I think he'd handle the situation rationally and fully weigh the options and advice of the gentleman advising him. Idk why people keep treating him like some kind of moron, his personal degree of success is something that only a brilliant person could achieve. He graduated from Wharton... Wharton. Regardless of your personal opinion only a fool would say he's dumb, stupid, or ignorant.

You're talking about a guy who believes Barack Obama was born in Kenya, and Ted Cruz's father was in on the JFK assassination. That kind of thinking is really all one needs to know to understand that he is not fit for the position, not that there is not plenty more.

He never took a definitive position on either of those things. He merely asked Obama to crush the rumor instead of being an idiot and ignoring something a lot of people thought was important. The Cruz thing was just his head turning and having fun.
Wylted
Posts: 25,970
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5/16/2016 11:05:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I like double R's position that we should only elect career politicians, because the common man is too stupid to be politically active
Objectivity
Posts: 1,856
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5/17/2016 11:57:58 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/15/2016 8:58:54 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 5/15/2016 7:29:22 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Really this whole thread boils down to this.

If Trump is stupid, then Democracy is a failure.

Hence, why this thread is addressed to "my fellow Americans".

I wouldn't call democracy as a whole a failure though, it is more like a lost battle in the midst of a war. And in this case I think we are seeing the effects of years of republicans fostering an environment of hatred towards the government itself. I mean what do you expect your base voters to feel when you spend years telling them about how scary and evil government is? It amazes me now to see republicans look around and wonder where Trump came from, the outsider appeal that he rode to the nomination was their creation.

Hey, can I see you, TBR and cupcakes off to your flights to canada when Trump gets elected? :)
Greyparrot
Posts: 21,953
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5/17/2016 4:48:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/15/2016 8:58:54 PM, Double_R wrote:
At 5/15/2016 7:29:22 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Really this whole thread boils down to this.

If Trump is stupid, then Democracy is a failure.

Hence, why this thread is addressed to "my fellow Americans".

I wouldn't call democracy as a whole a failure though, it is more like a lost battle in the midst of a war. And in this case I think we are seeing the effects of years of republicans fostering an environment of hatred towards the government itself. I mean what do you expect your base voters to feel when you spend years telling them about how scary and evil government is? It amazes me now to see republicans look around and wonder where Trump came from, the outsider appeal that he rode to the nomination was their creation.

And Bernie Supporters are equally deluded for not trusting the paid establishment?

Yah, according to you both Trump and Bernie are stupid, and Democracy is a failure.
The extinction of the species is worse than the extinction of the nation, which is worse than the extinction of the tribe, which is worse than the extinction of the family, which is worse than the extinction of the individual. The second he reverses that list of priorities, he becomes a coward, and would be summarily disposed of by any civilized society that values its own survival.
Greyparrot
Posts: 21,953
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5/17/2016 4:50:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/16/2016 11:05:23 PM, Wylted wrote:
I like double R's position that we should only elect career politicians, because the common man is too stupid to be politically active

This.
The extinction of the species is worse than the extinction of the nation, which is worse than the extinction of the tribe, which is worse than the extinction of the family, which is worse than the extinction of the individual. The second he reverses that list of priorities, he becomes a coward, and would be summarily disposed of by any civilized society that values its own survival.
Non-Aggression
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5/17/2016 5:27:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/17/2016 11:57:58 AM, Objectivity wrote:

Hey, can I see you, TBR and cupcakes off to your flights to canada when Trump gets elected? :)

Please make it a one-way ticket. We don't want them back.

The toxic blend of sheer idiocy and snobbish condescension found in many modern leftists is something this country is better off without.

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