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UK Should Leave

Greyparrot
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6/23/2016 5:05:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/23/2016 5:01:05 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:

3) You seem not to realize that there is a way to change things, and it's by building a grassroots movement to democratize the EU.
This site should explain
https://diem25.org...

That site has some lofty goals (short manifesto) about Democratizing the EU, but tyrants don't care about movements, they only care about retaining power. Real change happens when tyrants lose their power. Brexit is one instance of such.
The extinction of the species is worse than the extinction of the nation, which is worse than the extinction of the tribe, which is worse than the extinction of the family, which is worse than the extinction of the individual. The second he reverses that list of priorities, he becomes a coward, and would be summarily disposed of by any civilized society that values its own survival.
Greyparrot
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6/23/2016 5:08:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/23/2016 5:04:00 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 6/23/2016 4:34:12 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
The UK should leave just to prove that it can.

That is the single worst argument I have heard yet.

Also just curious, do you think a mass exodus from the corrupt EU could create an environment for the creation of a better one such as one proposed by DIEM?
The extinction of the species is worse than the extinction of the nation, which is worse than the extinction of the tribe, which is worse than the extinction of the family, which is worse than the extinction of the individual. The second he reverses that list of priorities, he becomes a coward, and would be summarily disposed of by any civilized society that values its own survival.
BrendanD19
Posts: 2,468
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6/23/2016 5:10:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/23/2016 5:08:02 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 6/23/2016 5:04:00 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 6/23/2016 4:34:12 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
The UK should leave just to prove that it can.

That is the single worst argument I have heard yet.

Also just curious, do you think a mass exodus from the corrupt EU could create an environment for the creation of a better one such as one proposed by DIEM?

Unlikely, it would just create tension. And David Cameron has no interest in doing that, he wants the EU as it is, but without all the workers right protections and the ECHR. Also countries would have to join that new EU, which would be a long process and if they had just left the old EU, why would they want to join a new one?
BrendanD19
Posts: 2,468
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6/23/2016 5:13:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/23/2016 5:05:11 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 6/23/2016 5:01:05 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:

3) You seem not to realize that there is a way to change things, and it's by building a grassroots movement to democratize the EU.
This site should explain
https://diem25.org...

That site has some lofty goals (short manifesto) about Democratizing the EU, but tyrants don't care about movements, they only care about retaining power. Real change happens when tyrants lose their power.

And how do Tyrants lose their power? From mass movements of people who stand up for justice.
And if you think those goals are lofty, I would suggest you use the word unreasonable, but theat is a good thing. To quote George Bernard Shaw, "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
Greyparrot
Posts: 21,952
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6/23/2016 5:13:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/23/2016 5:10:37 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 6/23/2016 5:08:02 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 6/23/2016 5:04:00 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 6/23/2016 4:34:12 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
The UK should leave just to prove that it can.

That is the single worst argument I have heard yet.

Also just curious, do you think a mass exodus from the corrupt EU could create an environment for the creation of a better one such as one proposed by DIEM?

Unlikely, it would just create tension. And David Cameron has no interest in doing that, he wants the EU as it is, but without all the workers right protections and the ECHR. Also countries would have to join that new EU, which would be a long process and if they had just left the old EU, why would they want to join a new one?

in reality, leaving the EU will realistically force the EU to choose to either reform or disband, and Britain can then reapply for admission into a reformed EU..and the rest of Europe can thank the UK for having the balls to do something about a corrupt system.
The extinction of the species is worse than the extinction of the nation, which is worse than the extinction of the tribe, which is worse than the extinction of the family, which is worse than the extinction of the individual. The second he reverses that list of priorities, he becomes a coward, and would be summarily disposed of by any civilized society that values its own survival.
Greyparrot
Posts: 21,952
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6/23/2016 5:15:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/23/2016 5:13:22 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 6/23/2016 5:05:11 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 6/23/2016 5:01:05 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:

3) You seem not to realize that there is a way to change things, and it's by building a grassroots movement to democratize the EU.
This site should explain
https://diem25.org...

That site has some lofty goals (short manifesto) about Democratizing the EU, but tyrants don't care about movements, they only care about retaining power. Real change happens when tyrants lose their power.

And how do Tyrants lose their power? From mass movements of people who stand up for justice.

Only when those mass movements have pitchforks and are smashing the palace gates, none of which DIEM is remotely prepared to do.
The extinction of the species is worse than the extinction of the nation, which is worse than the extinction of the tribe, which is worse than the extinction of the family, which is worse than the extinction of the individual. The second he reverses that list of priorities, he becomes a coward, and would be summarily disposed of by any civilized society that values its own survival.
BrendanD19
Posts: 2,468
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6/23/2016 5:18:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/23/2016 5:13:26 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 6/23/2016 5:10:37 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 6/23/2016 5:08:02 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 6/23/2016 5:04:00 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 6/23/2016 4:34:12 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
The UK should leave just to prove that it can.

That is the single worst argument I have heard yet.

Also just curious, do you think a mass exodus from the corrupt EU could create an environment for the creation of a better one such as one proposed by DIEM?

Unlikely, it would just create tension. And David Cameron has no interest in doing that, he wants the EU as it is, but without all the workers right protections and the ECHR. Also countries would have to join that new EU, which would be a long process and if they had just left the old EU, why would they want to join a new one?

in reality, leaving the EU will realistically force the EU to choose to either reform or disband, and Britain can then reapply for admission into a reformed EU..and the rest of Europe can thank the UK for having the balls to do something about a corrupt system.

I doubt that reform will happen if the UK leaves. For starters, the EU will have no real reason to reform anymore because a major power broker has left. Secondly, Far-Right Parties like the Front National and the Sweden Democrats are on the rise and one of their goals is to leave the EU. If Britain leaves, this will likely increase the popularity of these parties who will say: If Britain can do it, why can't we?
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,251
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6/23/2016 5:19:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/23/2016 5:04:00 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 6/23/2016 4:34:12 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
The UK should leave just to prove that it can.

That is the single worst argument I have heard yet.

Then I suspect that you misunderstand what I mean.

In the United States, once a state joined the Union, that was it. They could never leave, and they were no longer independent sovereign entities. The one time that several states tried to leave, the federal government used force to keep them in the Union.
The European Union, however, should not be like this. Unlike the states of the USA, each European country is ethnically, linguistically, and culturally set apart from all the rest. The peoples of these countries identify much more strongly with their home countries than with some abstract concept of a continental union. So they should all maintain their sovereignty and independence. As such, the European Union should be an entirely voluntary association. That is, countries participate of their own free will and they can leave the EU any time they want. If the European Union won't allow its member countries to remain sovereign states, then it simply shouldn't exist. The best way to limit the EU's authority is for member states to continue to assert their rights as sovereign states.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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BrendanD19
Posts: 2,468
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6/23/2016 5:19:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/23/2016 5:15:13 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 6/23/2016 5:13:22 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 6/23/2016 5:05:11 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 6/23/2016 5:01:05 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:

3) You seem not to realize that there is a way to change things, and it's by building a grassroots movement to democratize the EU.
This site should explain
https://diem25.org...

That site has some lofty goals (short manifesto) about Democratizing the EU, but tyrants don't care about movements, they only care about retaining power. Real change happens when tyrants lose their power.

And how do Tyrants lose their power? From mass movements of people who stand up for justice.

Only when those mass movements have pitchforks and are smashing the palace gates, none of which DIEM is remotely prepared to do.

Ever heard of the Velvet Revolution? Solidarity in Poland? The Orange Revolution? The Tunisian Revolution? Die Wende? The Singing Revolution?
BrendanD19
Posts: 2,468
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6/23/2016 5:23:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/23/2016 5:19:40 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 6/23/2016 5:04:00 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 6/23/2016 4:34:12 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
The UK should leave just to prove that it can.

That is the single worst argument I have heard yet.

Then I suspect that you misunderstand what I mean.

Well, you were not very clear. You gave the argument that a college kid gives for doing something incredibly stupid.
Greyparrot
Posts: 21,952
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6/23/2016 5:35:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/23/2016 5:19:59 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 6/23/2016 5:15:13 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 6/23/2016 5:13:22 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 6/23/2016 5:05:11 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 6/23/2016 5:01:05 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:

3) You seem not to realize that there is a way to change things, and it's by building a grassroots movement to democratize the EU.
This site should explain
https://diem25.org...

That site has some lofty goals (short manifesto) about Democratizing the EU, but tyrants don't care about movements, they only care about retaining power. Real change happens when tyrants lose their power.

And how do Tyrants lose their power? From mass movements of people who stand up for justice.

Only when those mass movements have pitchforks and are smashing the palace gates, none of which DIEM is remotely prepared to do.

Ever heard of the Velvet Revolution?
The driving force of change was the actual mass strike, not ethereal "movements"

UK needs to go on strike. Brexit is the vehicle.
The extinction of the species is worse than the extinction of the nation, which is worse than the extinction of the tribe, which is worse than the extinction of the family, which is worse than the extinction of the individual. The second he reverses that list of priorities, he becomes a coward, and would be summarily disposed of by any civilized society that values its own survival.
BrendanD19
Posts: 2,468
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6/23/2016 6:03:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/23/2016 5:35:13 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 6/23/2016 5:19:59 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 6/23/2016 5:15:13 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 6/23/2016 5:13:22 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:
At 6/23/2016 5:05:11 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 6/23/2016 5:01:05 PM, BrendanD19 wrote:

3) You seem not to realize that there is a way to change things, and it's by building a grassroots movement to democratize the EU.
This site should explain
https://diem25.org...

That site has some lofty goals (short manifesto) about Democratizing the EU, but tyrants don't care about movements, they only care about retaining power. Real change happens when tyrants lose their power.

And how do Tyrants lose their power? From mass movements of people who stand up for justice.

Only when those mass movements have pitchforks and are smashing the palace gates, none of which DIEM is remotely prepared to do.

Ever heard of the Velvet Revolution?
The driving force of change was the actual mass strike, not ethereal "movements"

UK needs to go on strike. Brexit is the vehicle.

Strikes are an action that movements perform to achieve their goals. In other words, strike is a verb, movement is a noun.
And they could just go on strike as in an actual strike, and have a general strike with workers in other EU nations. Force the EU to reform or face the economic consequences of the general strike.
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,598
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6/23/2016 7:46:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/23/2016 1:47:55 PM, YYW wrote:
If I was voting today, I would vote to leave.

+10000000
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
bballcrook21
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6/23/2016 7:46:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/23/2016 3:25:23 PM, Lsumichiganfan wrote:
At 6/23/2016 1:47:55 PM, YYW wrote:
If I was voting today, I would vote to leave.

The UK should stay. Leaving would create vast economic instability.

No, it really wouldn't. It was even stated that almost all the trade deals that the UK has with European nations will just get copy and pasted and it won't damage anything, plus the UK now has access to vast amounts of trade deals that it didn't have access to before under the European cartel.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
ironslippers
Posts: 655
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6/23/2016 8:58:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/23/2016 1:47:55 PM, YYW wrote:
If I was voting today, I would vote to leave.

concur
I believe that another layer of bureaucracy to compensate for ineffective governing is not the answer to a nations plight.
Is a complete lack of sovereignty the future of the world?
Everyone stands on their own dung hill and speaks out about someone else's - Nathan Krusemark
Its easier to criticize and hate than it is to support and create - I Ron Slippers
Lsumichiganfan
Posts: 267
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6/23/2016 9:01:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/23/2016 3:48:41 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 6/23/2016 3:42:03 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 6/23/2016 3:25:23 PM, Lsumichiganfan wrote:
At 6/23/2016 1:47:55 PM, YYW wrote:
If I was voting today, I would vote to leave.

The UK should stay. Leaving would create vast economic instability.

How?

He's fourteen, he's just parroting what he's heard.

I am not parroting what I heard. I have listened to both arguments on the leave and stay side and just recently endorsed the "stay" in the European Union. Top British Economists predict that with the UK leaving there would be a lack of immigration into the UK thus producing less jobs and less job opportunities. Many top UK departments have predicted a decrease in overall GDP. Also, if the UK leaves it will ruin a better connected Europe. If the UK leaves the whole EU will go down the drain. Trust me, there will be a stocks shock tomorrow morning if the UK leaves.
Please vote on this debate: http://www.debate.org...
"You have displayed the political understanding of a tortoise thus far in this election" -Harder
Greyparrot
Posts: 21,952
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6/23/2016 9:05:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/23/2016 9:01:31 PM, Lsumichiganfan wrote:
At 6/23/2016 3:48:41 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 6/23/2016 3:42:03 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 6/23/2016 3:25:23 PM, Lsumichiganfan wrote:
At 6/23/2016 1:47:55 PM, YYW wrote:
If I was voting today, I would vote to leave.

The UK should stay. Leaving would create vast economic instability.

How?

He's fourteen, he's just parroting what he's heard.

I am not parroting what I heard. I have listened to both arguments on the leave and stay side and just recently endorsed the "stay" in the European Union. Top British Economists predict that with the UK leaving there would be a lack of immigration into the UK thus producing less jobs and less job opportunities. Many top UK departments have predicted a decrease in overall GDP. Also, if the UK leaves it will ruin a better connected Europe. If the UK leaves the whole EU will go down the drain. Trust me, there will be a stocks shock tomorrow morning if the UK leaves.

This policy vote is about the next 10 to 20 years, not a "stock shock"
The extinction of the species is worse than the extinction of the nation, which is worse than the extinction of the tribe, which is worse than the extinction of the family, which is worse than the extinction of the individual. The second he reverses that list of priorities, he becomes a coward, and would be summarily disposed of by any civilized society that values its own survival.
Lsumichiganfan
Posts: 267
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6/23/2016 9:07:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/23/2016 9:05:28 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 6/23/2016 9:01:31 PM, Lsumichiganfan wrote:
At 6/23/2016 3:48:41 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 6/23/2016 3:42:03 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 6/23/2016 3:25:23 PM, Lsumichiganfan wrote:
At 6/23/2016 1:47:55 PM, YYW wrote:
If I was voting today, I would vote to leave.

The UK should stay. Leaving would create vast economic instability.

How?

He's fourteen, he's just parroting what he's heard.

I am not parroting what I heard. I have listened to both arguments on the leave and stay side and just recently endorsed the "stay" in the European Union. Top British Economists predict that with the UK leaving there would be a lack of immigration into the UK thus producing less jobs and less job opportunities. Many top UK departments have predicted a decrease in overall GDP. Also, if the UK leaves it will ruin a better connected Europe. If the UK leaves the whole EU will go down the drain. Trust me, there will be a stocks shock tomorrow morning if the UK leaves.

This policy vote is about the next 10 to 20 years, not a "stock shock"

I understand that. But, the result will certainly affect the stocks tomorrow morning.
Please vote on this debate: http://www.debate.org...
"You have displayed the political understanding of a tortoise thus far in this election" -Harder
xus00HAY
Posts: 2,268
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6/23/2016 9:09:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
All things considered, it is time the U.K. told Europe that the next time they need someone to save their a$$ from the Germans, call somebody else!
Harikrish
Posts: 24,045
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6/23/2016 9:11:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/23/2016 9:01:31 PM, Lsumichiganfan wrote:
At 6/23/2016 3:48:41 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 6/23/2016 3:42:03 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 6/23/2016 3:25:23 PM, Lsumichiganfan wrote:
At 6/23/2016 1:47:55 PM, YYW wrote:
If I was voting today, I would vote to leave.

The UK should stay. Leaving would create vast economic instability.

How?

He's fourteen, he's just parroting what he's heard.

I am not parroting what I heard. I have listened to both arguments on the leave and stay side and just recently endorsed the "stay" in the European Union. Top British Economists predict that with the UK leaving there would be a lack of immigration into the UK thus producing less jobs and less job opportunities. Many top UK departments have predicted a decrease in overall GDP. Also, if the UK leaves it will ruin a better connected Europe. If the UK leaves the whole EU will go down the drain. Trust me, there will be a stocks shock tomorrow morning if the UK leaves.

UK should leave. They don't make anything they can sell to the EU. They can get what they need from China. The monarchy is not recognized by the EU nor is English adopted by the EU. The Brits are terrible with other languages and what they borrowed corrupted their own by making it too sophisticated for the average Brit to master.
The only shame is conceding the Germans conquered Europe.
Greyparrot
Posts: 21,952
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6/24/2016 1:29:19 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/24/2016 1:23:50 AM, YYW wrote:
I have yet to see a single reasonable argument not to leave.

UK should be a colony too?
The extinction of the species is worse than the extinction of the nation, which is worse than the extinction of the tribe, which is worse than the extinction of the family, which is worse than the extinction of the individual. The second he reverses that list of priorities, he becomes a coward, and would be summarily disposed of by any civilized society that values its own survival.
YYW
Posts: 44,676
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6/24/2016 1:30:12 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/24/2016 1:29:19 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 6/24/2016 1:23:50 AM, YYW wrote:
I have yet to see a single reasonable argument not to leave.

UK should be a colony too?

It essentially is a colony of the EU unless it does leave.
Greyparrot
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6/24/2016 1:32:15 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/24/2016 1:30:12 AM, YYW wrote:
At 6/24/2016 1:29:19 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 6/24/2016 1:23:50 AM, YYW wrote:
I have yet to see a single reasonable argument not to leave.

UK should be a colony too?

It essentially is a colony of the EU unless it does leave.

Well you wanted a reasonable argument...ill take pro.
The extinction of the species is worse than the extinction of the nation, which is worse than the extinction of the tribe, which is worse than the extinction of the family, which is worse than the extinction of the individual. The second he reverses that list of priorities, he becomes a coward, and would be summarily disposed of by any civilized society that values its own survival.
YYW
Posts: 44,676
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6/24/2016 1:35:15 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/24/2016 1:32:15 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 6/24/2016 1:30:12 AM, YYW wrote:
At 6/24/2016 1:29:19 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 6/24/2016 1:23:50 AM, YYW wrote:
I have yet to see a single reasonable argument not to leave.

UK should be a colony too?

It essentially is a colony of the EU unless it does leave.

Well you wanted a reasonable argument...ill take pro.

Make your case.
Greyparrot
Posts: 21,952
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6/24/2016 1:46:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/24/2016 1:35:15 AM, YYW wrote:
At 6/24/2016 1:32:15 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 6/24/2016 1:30:12 AM, YYW wrote:
At 6/24/2016 1:29:19 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 6/24/2016 1:23:50 AM, YYW wrote:
I have yet to see a single reasonable argument not to leave.

UK should be a colony too?

It essentially is a colony of the EU unless it does leave.

Well you wanted a reasonable argument...ill take pro.

Make your case.

point 1: UK has lived under the burden of having to convince the world that their culture promotes humanity and progress. Being a colony of the EU will relieve the UK from this onerous burden.

point 2: UK has worldwide pressure to issue reparations to the world for their imperialistic history. Spending time as a client state of the EU will help relieve UK's societal debt to the world.

point 3: Many of the current inhabitants of the UK do not have the same culture, therefore the current parliamentary democracy is not feasible anymore for the UK, and some form of authoritarian fiat rule of the EU must be implemented to ensure societal order in the UK.

I await your rebuttals.
The extinction of the species is worse than the extinction of the nation, which is worse than the extinction of the tribe, which is worse than the extinction of the family, which is worse than the extinction of the individual. The second he reverses that list of priorities, he becomes a coward, and would be summarily disposed of by any civilized society that values its own survival.
YYW
Posts: 44,676
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6/24/2016 1:51:01 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/24/2016 1:46:31 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 6/24/2016 1:35:15 AM, YYW wrote:
At 6/24/2016 1:32:15 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 6/24/2016 1:30:12 AM, YYW wrote:
At 6/24/2016 1:29:19 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 6/24/2016 1:23:50 AM, YYW wrote:
I have yet to see a single reasonable argument not to leave.

UK should be a colony too?

It essentially is a colony of the EU unless it does leave.

Well you wanted a reasonable argument...ill take pro.

Make your case.

point 1: UK has lived under the burden of having to convince the world that their culture promotes humanity and progress. Being a colony of the EU will relieve the UK from this onerous burden.

Not a real impact. I don't care what the rest of the world thinks about the UK, nor should the UK.

point 2: UK has worldwide pressure to issue reparations to the world for their imperialistic history. Spending time as a client state of the EU will help relieve UK's societal debt to the world.

Simple response to the demand for reparations: get fvcked.

point 3: Many of the current inhabitants of the UK do not have the same culture, therefore the current parliamentary democracy is not feasible anymore for the UK, and some form of authoritarian fiat rule of the EU must be implemented to ensure societal order in the UK.

Simple response: deport them.

I await your rebuttals.
Greyparrot
Posts: 21,952
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6/24/2016 1:53:09 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/24/2016 1:51:01 AM, YYW wrote:
At 6/24/2016 1:46:31 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 6/24/2016 1:35:15 AM, YYW wrote:
At 6/24/2016 1:32:15 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 6/24/2016 1:30:12 AM, YYW wrote:
At 6/24/2016 1:29:19 AM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 6/24/2016 1:23:50 AM, YYW wrote:
I have yet to see a single reasonable argument not to leave.

UK should be a colony too?

It essentially is a colony of the EU unless it does leave.

Well you wanted a reasonable argument...ill take pro.

Make your case.

point 1: UK has lived under the burden of having to convince the world that their culture promotes humanity and progress. Being a colony of the EU will relieve the UK from this onerous burden.

Not a real impact. I don't care what the rest of the world thinks about the UK, nor should the UK.

point 2: UK has worldwide pressure to issue reparations to the world for their imperialistic history. Spending time as a client state of the EU will help relieve UK's societal debt to the world.

Simple response to the demand for reparations: get fvcked.

point 3: Many of the current inhabitants of the UK do not have the same culture, therefore the current parliamentary democracy is not feasible anymore for the UK, and some form of authoritarian fiat rule of the EU must be implemented to ensure societal order in the UK.

Simple response: deport them.

I await your rebuttals.

eh...you win.
The extinction of the species is worse than the extinction of the nation, which is worse than the extinction of the tribe, which is worse than the extinction of the family, which is worse than the extinction of the individual. The second he reverses that list of priorities, he becomes a coward, and would be summarily disposed of by any civilized society that values its own survival.