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If God were real...

Smithereens
Posts: 8,358
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1/18/2018 5:32:44 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
1. If the christian God were real, then praying would be effective.

2. Most Christians suffering cancer have people other christians praying for them.

3. Christian cancer survival rates (and for any disease) is not different to infidels.

4. Prayer is not effective.

C: The Christian God probably isn't real.

James 5:16 "The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective."
"Your signature should not have the name of other players in the game, nor should it have the words VTL, Vote, or Unvote."
~Yraelz, 2017

Debate challenge 'Solipsism is false:' http://www.debate.org...
If God were real... http://www.debate.org...
Deb-8-A-Bull
Posts: 5,316
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1/18/2018 6:06:49 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/18/2018 5:32:44 AM, Smithereens wrote:
1. If the christian God were real, then praying would be effective.

2. Most Christians suffering cancer have people other christians praying for them.

3. Christian cancer survival rates (and for any disease) is not different to infidels.

4. Prayer is not effective.

C: The Christian God probably isn't real.

James 5:16 "The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective."

Or they might be doing it wrong , praying that is.
Left hand clockwise belly rubbing , right hand head tapping
ethang5
Posts: 22,832
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1/18/2018 8:22:40 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/18/2018 5:32:44 AM, Smithereens wrote:
1. If the christian God were real, then praying would be effective.

2. Most Christians suffering cancer have people other christians praying for them.

3. Christian cancer survival rates (and for any disease) is not different to infidels.

4. Prayer is not effective.

C: The Christian God probably isn't real.

James 5:16 "The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective."

Rom 3:10 - As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one;
Rom 3:11 - there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God.
Rom 3:12 - All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one."
Smithereens
Posts: 8,358
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1/18/2018 10:55:33 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/18/2018 8:22:40 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 1/18/2018 5:32:44 AM, Smithereens wrote:
1. If the christian God were real, then praying would be effective.

2. Most Christians suffering cancer have people other christians praying for them.

3. Christian cancer survival rates (and for any disease) is not different to infidels.

4. Prayer is not effective.

C: The Christian God probably isn't real.

James 5:16 "The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective."

Rom 3:10 - As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one;
Rom 3:11 - there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God.
Rom 3:12 - All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one."

So you're saying that the fact that we're told to pray but prayer doesn't work is explained by the fact that nobody is righteous?

Realise that the statement in James doesn't say The prayer of a sinner is ineffective.

Is prayer redundant?
"Your signature should not have the name of other players in the game, nor should it have the words VTL, Vote, or Unvote."
~Yraelz, 2017

Debate challenge 'Solipsism is false:' http://www.debate.org...
If God were real... http://www.debate.org...
12_13
Posts: 2,575
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1/18/2018 11:34:24 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/18/2018 5:32:44 AM, Smithereens wrote:
1. If the christian God were real, then praying would be effective.

2. Most Christians suffering cancer have people other christians praying for them.

3. Christian cancer survival rates (and for any disease) is not different to infidels.

4. Prayer is not effective...

Have you thought that maybe it is because they pray Trinity and not the Bible God?
KwLm
Posts: 1,690
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1/18/2018 12:04:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/18/2018 5:32:44 AM, Smithereens wrote:
1. If the christian God were real, then praying would be effective.

2. Most Christians suffering cancer have people other christians praying for them.

3. Christian cancer survival rates (and for any disease) is not different to infidels.

4. Prayer is not effective.

C: The Christian God probably isn't real.

James 5:16 "The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective."

5. There would be no athiests. For there would be proof of the thing being real.
"Plus every unfortunate and bad things happens to us in reality are good for us" --- Abeer
Smithereens
Posts: 8,358
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1/18/2018 12:07:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I amazed at how few theists have materialised to enlighten me with the truth.
"Your signature should not have the name of other players in the game, nor should it have the words VTL, Vote, or Unvote."
~Yraelz, 2017

Debate challenge 'Solipsism is false:' http://www.debate.org...
If God were real... http://www.debate.org...
3RU7AL
Posts: 2,250
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1/18/2018 5:08:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/18/2018 12:04:39 PM, KwLm wrote:
At 1/18/2018 5:32:44 AM, Smithereens wrote:
1. If the christian God were real, then praying would be effective.

2. Most Christians suffering cancer have people other christians praying for them.

3. Christian cancer survival rates (and for any disease) is not different to infidels.

4. Prayer is not effective.

C: The Christian God probably isn't real.

James 5:16 "The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective."

5. There would be no athiests. For there would be proof of the thing being real.

Not really "proof of god", probably something more like the placebo effect.
Believing in "objective reality" is just like believing in heaven.
Please adhere to obvious epistemological limits.
ethang5, PureX, and I agree on... http://www.debate.org...
How to have a Rational Conversation http://www.debate.org...
Cognitive bias
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What is Alief?

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SecularMerlin
Posts: 7,228
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1/18/2018 5:28:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/18/2018 8:22:40 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 1/18/2018 5:32:44 AM, Smithereens wrote:
1. If the christian God were real, then praying would be effective.

2. Most Christians suffering cancer have people other christians praying for them.

3. Christian cancer survival rates (and for any disease) is not different to infidels.

4. Prayer is not effective.

C: The Christian God probably isn't real.

James 5:16 "The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective."

Rom 3:10 - As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one;
Rom 3:11 - there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God.
Rom 3:12 - All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one."

Why would you ever worship a deity that considers you to be worthless and clearly states in his literature that there is no one who seeks god? Doesn't that mean that you can't be saved? Doesn't that contradict the idea that you can be saved as stated elsewhere in the bible? These are exactly the kind of verses that convince me that the bible is either immoral or logically inconsistent or both.
The only true wisdom lies in knowing that you know nothing.
-Socrates

Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality
-Lewis Carrol
ethang5
Posts: 22,832
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1/18/2018 5:48:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/18/2018 10:55:33 AM, Smithereens wrote:
At 1/18/2018 8:22:40 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 1/18/2018 5:32:44 AM, Smithereens wrote:
1. If the christian God were real, then praying would be effective.

2. Most Christians suffering cancer have people other christians praying for them.

3. Christian cancer survival rates (and for any disease) is not different to infidels.

4. Prayer is not effective.

C: The Christian God probably isn't real.

James 5:16 "The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective."

Rom 3:10 - As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one;
Rom 3:11 - there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God.
Rom 3:12 - All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one."

So you're saying that the fact that we're told to pray...

Sorry. Assumption storm. Who is "we"?

...but prayer doesn't work...

Prayer doesn't work is your belief. Not mine.

......is explained by the fact that nobody is righteous?

You said, "righteous man". Who did you believe that refers to? You?

Realise that the statement in James doesn't say The prayer of a sinner is ineffective.

The Bible says that the prayer of the unrighteous is an abomination to God. Have you read the book of James, or have you only posted a snippet? James is the book saying that faith without works is dead.

Is prayer redundant?

You seem to think prayer is synonymous to "asking for stuff". In the Christian context, prayer is simply conversation with God. So when you ask if prayer "works" or is "redundant", I'm at a loss for what you mean.

But I would agree with you that trying to manipulate, just for swag, someone who knows your every thought, will not end in swag heaven. Of all the things God is not, stupid and easy to manipulate are high, 4 and 3 I think.
squonk
Posts: 56
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1/19/2018 7:39:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
- "If you have faith and do not doubt...Whatever you ask for in prayer with faith, you will receive" (Matthew 21).

- "Whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours" (Mark 11).

- "Ask for whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit and become my disciples" (John 15).

- "Very truly, I tell you, if you ask anything of the Father in my name, he will give it to you." (John 16:23).

...Yeah, I think it's fair to say that, if Christianity was true, prayer would yield noticeable results of some kind.
squonk
Posts: 56
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1/19/2018 7:41:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/18/2018 5:48:10 PM, ethang5 wrote:
You seem to think prayer is synonymous to "asking for stuff". In the Christian context, prayer is simply conversation with God.

Um...no, according to Jesus, prayer involves asking for stuff. See the verses above.
ThinkFirst
Posts: 2,448
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1/19/2018 8:20:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/18/2018 5:48:10 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 1/18/2018 10:55:33 AM, Smithereens wrote:
At 1/18/2018 8:22:40 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 1/18/2018 5:32:44 AM, Smithereens wrote:
1. If the christian God were real, then praying would be effective.

2. Most Christians suffering cancer have people other christians praying for them.

3. Christian cancer survival rates (and for any disease) is not different to infidels.

4. Prayer is not effective.

C: The Christian God probably isn't real.

James 5:16 "The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective."

Rom 3:10 - As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one;
Rom 3:11 - there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God.
Rom 3:12 - All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one."

So you're saying that the fact that we're told to pray...

Sorry. Assumption storm. Who is "we"?

...but prayer doesn't work...

Prayer doesn't work is your belief. Not mine.

......is explained by the fact that nobody is righteous?

You said, "righteous man". Who did you believe that refers to? You?

Realise that the statement in James doesn't say The prayer of a sinner is ineffective.

The Bible says that the prayer of the unrighteous is an abomination to God. Have you read the book of James, or have you only posted a snippet? James is the book saying that faith without works is dead.

Is prayer redundant?

You seem to think prayer is synonymous to "asking for stuff". In the Christian context, prayer is simply conversation with God. So when you ask if prayer "works" or is "redundant", I'm at a loss for what you mean.

But I would agree with you that trying to manipulate, just for swag, someone who knows your every thought, will not end in swag heaven. Of all the things God is not, stupid and easy to manipulate are high, 4 and 3 I think.

#1 being "existent...?"
"Never attribute to villainy that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"
-----
"Men rarely if ever dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child. "

-- Robert A Heinlein
SecularMerlin
Posts: 7,228
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1/19/2018 8:23:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/19/2018 7:45:17 PM, Polytheist_Witch wrote:
What makes anyone thing the gods can change or tamper with someone's fate?

I do not believe that myself and so cannot be certain but the claim made by some theists that god is "omnipotent" and answers prayers, especially if they claim specific physical effects can be accomplished through prayer, say the healing power of prayer for example, would seem to suggest that they do believe it whatever the reason.
The only true wisdom lies in knowing that you know nothing.
-Socrates

Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality
-Lewis Carrol
WoeJ
Posts: 1,339
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1/19/2018 8:25:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/18/2018 11:34:24 AM, 12_13 wrote:
At 1/18/2018 5:32:44 AM, Smithereens wrote:
1. If the christian God were real, then praying would be effective.

2. Most Christians suffering cancer have people other christians praying for them.

3. Christian cancer survival rates (and for any disease) is not different to infidels.

4. Prayer is not effective...

Have you thought that maybe it is because they pray Trinity and not the Bible God?

All Christian say that they are praying to the Bible God; be they Trinitarians, Unitarians, whatever. No group demonstrates any efficacy in intercessory prayer.
Polytheist_Witch
Posts: 4,423
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1/19/2018 8:26:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/19/2018 8:23:23 PM, SecularMerlin wrote:
At 1/19/2018 7:45:17 PM, Polytheist_Witch wrote:
What makes anyone thing the gods can change or tamper with someone's fate?

I do not believe that myself and so cannot be certain but the claim made by some theists that god is "omnipotent" and answers prayers, especially if they claim specific physical effects can be accomplished through prayer, say the healing power of prayer for example, would seem to suggest that they do believe it whatever the reason.

The God of Abraham claims lots of things. I pray but I know they can't change anyone's fate. They pretty much tell you that. Well mine do.
SecularMerlin
Posts: 7,228
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1/19/2018 8:33:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/19/2018 8:26:53 PM, Polytheist_Witch wrote:
At 1/19/2018 8:23:23 PM, SecularMerlin wrote:
At 1/19/2018 7:45:17 PM, Polytheist_Witch wrote:
What makes anyone thing the gods can change or tamper with someone's fate?

I do not believe that myself and so cannot be certain but the claim made by some theists that god is "omnipotent" and answers prayers, especially if they claim specific physical effects can be accomplished through prayer, say the healing power of prayer for example, would seem to suggest that they do believe it whatever the reason.

The God of Abraham claims lots of things. I pray but I know they can't change anyone's fate. They pretty much tell you that. Well mine do.

Sorry just for clarification who tells you?
The only true wisdom lies in knowing that you know nothing.
-Socrates

Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality
-Lewis Carrol
Polytheist_Witch
Posts: 4,423
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1/19/2018 8:37:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/19/2018 8:33:03 PM, SecularMerlin wrote:
At 1/19/2018 8:26:53 PM, Polytheist_Witch wrote:
At 1/19/2018 8:23:23 PM, SecularMerlin wrote:
At 1/19/2018 7:45:17 PM, Polytheist_Witch wrote:
What makes anyone thing the gods can change or tamper with someone's fate?

I do not believe that myself and so cannot be certain but the claim made by some theists that god is "omnipotent" and answers prayers, especially if they claim specific physical effects can be accomplished through prayer, say the healing power of prayer for example, would seem to suggest that they do believe it whatever the reason.

The God of Abraham claims lots of things. I pray but I know they can't change anyone's fate. They pretty much tell you that. Well mine do.

Sorry just for clarification who tells you?

The gods via the myths and stories. Where else do you get information on them?
SecularMerlin
Posts: 7,228
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1/19/2018 8:49:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/19/2018 8:37:18 PM, Polytheist_Witch wrote:
At 1/19/2018 8:33:03 PM, SecularMerlin wrote:
At 1/19/2018 8:26:53 PM, Polytheist_Witch wrote:
At 1/19/2018 8:23:23 PM, SecularMerlin wrote:
At 1/19/2018 7:45:17 PM, Polytheist_Witch wrote:
What makes anyone thing the gods can change or tamper with someone's fate?

I do not believe that myself and so cannot be certain but the claim made by some theists that god is "omnipotent" and answers prayers, especially if they claim specific physical effects can be accomplished through prayer, say the healing power of prayer for example, would seem to suggest that they do believe it whatever the reason.

The God of Abraham claims lots of things. I pray but I know they can't change anyone's fate. They pretty much tell you that. Well mine do.

Sorry just for clarification who tells you?

The gods via the myths and stories. Where else do you get information on them?

Myths and stories are the only place I have ever encountered a god, so I easily concede this point to you.

But again just for clarification what do you do when two myths very clearly contradict one another? How do you decide which is more real?
The only true wisdom lies in knowing that you know nothing.
-Socrates

Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality
-Lewis Carrol
Polytheist_Witch
Posts: 4,423
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1/19/2018 8:52:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/19/2018 8:49:31 PM, SecularMerlin wrote:
At 1/19/2018 8:37:18 PM, Polytheist_Witch wrote:
At 1/19/2018 8:33:03 PM, SecularMerlin wrote:
At 1/19/2018 8:26:53 PM, Polytheist_Witch wrote:
At 1/19/2018 8:23:23 PM, SecularMerlin wrote:
At 1/19/2018 7:45:17 PM, Polytheist_Witch wrote:
What makes anyone thing the gods can change or tamper with someone's fate?

I do not believe that myself and so cannot be certain but the claim made by some theists that god is "omnipotent" and answers prayers, especially if they claim specific physical effects can be accomplished through prayer, say the healing power of prayer for example, would seem to suggest that they do believe it whatever the reason.

The God of Abraham claims lots of things. I pray but I know they can't change anyone's fate. They pretty much tell you that. Well mine do.

Sorry just for clarification who tells you?

The gods via the myths and stories. Where else do you get information on them?

Myths and stories are the only place I have ever encountered a god, so I easily concede this point to you.

But again just for clarification what do you do when two myths very clearly contradict one another? How do you decide which is more real?

The gods are different. One's myths will not be the same as another set's myths. There are taboo's in religions for different gods. It's not a matter of more real. You don't wear bikini's in the snow or dress like an Eskimo at the beach.
SecularMerlin
Posts: 7,228
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1/19/2018 8:55:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/19/2018 8:52:13 PM, Polytheist_Witch wrote:
At 1/19/2018 8:49:31 PM, SecularMerlin wrote:
At 1/19/2018 8:37:18 PM, Polytheist_Witch wrote:
At 1/19/2018 8:33:03 PM, SecularMerlin wrote:
At 1/19/2018 8:26:53 PM, Polytheist_Witch wrote:
At 1/19/2018 8:23:23 PM, SecularMerlin wrote:
At 1/19/2018 7:45:17 PM, Polytheist_Witch wrote:
What makes anyone thing the gods can change or tamper with someone's fate?

I do not believe that myself and so cannot be certain but the claim made by some theists that god is "omnipotent" and answers prayers, especially if they claim specific physical effects can be accomplished through prayer, say the healing power of prayer for example, would seem to suggest that they do believe it whatever the reason.

The God of Abraham claims lots of things. I pray but I know they can't change anyone's fate. They pretty much tell you that. Well mine do.

Sorry just for clarification who tells you?

The gods via the myths and stories. Where else do you get information on them?

Myths and stories are the only place I have ever encountered a god, so I easily concede this point to you.

But again just for clarification what do you do when two myths very clearly contradict one another? How do you decide which is more real?

The gods are different. One's myths will not be the same as another set's myths. There are taboo's in religions for different gods. It's not a matter of more real. You don't wear bikini's in the snow or dress like an Eskimo at the beach.

Yes but christian mythology claims that Jesus is god or at least the son of god, while islamic mythology claims that Jesus was niether. In a case like this how do you decide which is true?
The only true wisdom lies in knowing that you know nothing.
-Socrates

Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality
-Lewis Carrol
Polytheist_Witch
Posts: 4,423
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1/19/2018 8:57:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/19/2018 8:55:39 PM, SecularMerlin wrote:
At 1/19/2018 8:52:13 PM, Polytheist_Witch wrote:
At 1/19/2018 8:49:31 PM, SecularMerlin wrote:
At 1/19/2018 8:37:18 PM, Polytheist_Witch wrote:
At 1/19/2018 8:33:03 PM, SecularMerlin wrote:
At 1/19/2018 8:26:53 PM, Polytheist_Witch wrote:
At 1/19/2018 8:23:23 PM, SecularMerlin wrote:
At 1/19/2018 7:45:17 PM, Polytheist_Witch wrote:
What makes anyone thing the gods can change or tamper with someone's fate?

I do not believe that myself and so cannot be certain but the claim made by some theists that god is "omnipotent" and answers prayers, especially if they claim specific physical effects can be accomplished through prayer, say the healing power of prayer for example, would seem to suggest that they do believe it whatever the reason.

The God of Abraham claims lots of things. I pray but I know they can't change anyone's fate. They pretty much tell you that. Well mine do.

Sorry just for clarification who tells you?

The gods via the myths and stories. Where else do you get information on them?

Myths and stories are the only place I have ever encountered a god, so I easily concede this point to you.

But again just for clarification what do you do when two myths very clearly contradict one another? How do you decide which is more real?

The gods are different. One's myths will not be the same as another set's myths. There are taboo's in religions for different gods. It's not a matter of more real. You don't wear bikini's in the snow or dress like an Eskimo at the beach.

Yes but christian mythology claims that Jesus is god or at least the son of god, while islamic mythology claims that Jesus was niether. In a case like this how do you decide which is true?

Follow your guts. I am neither and I think Jesus is the Son of God.
SecularMerlin
Posts: 7,228
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1/19/2018 9:11:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/19/2018 8:57:09 PM, Polytheist_Witch wrote:
At 1/19/2018 8:55:39 PM, SecularMerlin wrote:
At 1/19/2018 8:52:13 PM, Polytheist_Witch wrote:
At 1/19/2018 8:49:31 PM, SecularMerlin wrote:
At 1/19/2018 8:37:18 PM, Polytheist_Witch wrote:
At 1/19/2018 8:33:03 PM, SecularMerlin wrote:
At 1/19/2018 8:26:53 PM, Polytheist_Witch wrote:
At 1/19/2018 8:23:23 PM, SecularMerlin wrote:
At 1/19/2018 7:45:17 PM, Polytheist_Witch wrote:
What makes anyone thing the gods can change or tamper with someone's fate?

I do not believe that myself and so cannot be certain but the claim made by some theists that god is "omnipotent" and answers prayers, especially if they claim specific physical effects can be accomplished through prayer, say the healing power of prayer for example, would seem to suggest that they do believe it whatever the reason.

The God of Abraham claims lots of things. I pray but I know they can't change anyone's fate. They pretty much tell you that. Well mine do.

Sorry just for clarification who tells you?

The gods via the myths and stories. Where else do you get information on them?

Myths and stories are the only place I have ever encountered a god, so I easily concede this point to you.

But again just for clarification what do you do when two myths very clearly contradict one another? How do you decide which is more real?

The gods are different. One's myths will not be the same as another set's myths. There are taboo's in religions for different gods. It's not a matter of more real. You don't wear bikini's in the snow or dress like an Eskimo at the beach.

Yes but christian mythology claims that Jesus is god or at least the son of god, while islamic mythology claims that Jesus was niether. In a case like this how do you decide which is true?

Follow your guts. I am neither and I think Jesus is the Son of God.

Is there a concrete reason you believe that or is it just a gut instinct?
The only true wisdom lies in knowing that you know nothing.
-Socrates

Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality
-Lewis Carrol
Polytheist_Witch
Posts: 4,423
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1/19/2018 11:00:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/19/2018 9:11:25 PM, SecularMerlin wrote:
At 1/19/2018 8:57:09 PM, Polytheist_Witch wrote:
At 1/19/2018 8:55:39 PM, SecularMerlin wrote:
At 1/19/2018 8:52:13 PM, Polytheist_Witch wrote:
At 1/19/2018 8:49:31 PM, SecularMerlin wrote:
At 1/19/2018 8:37:18 PM, Polytheist_Witch wrote:
At 1/19/2018 8:33:03 PM, SecularMerlin wrote:
At 1/19/2018 8:26:53 PM, Polytheist_Witch wrote:
At 1/19/2018 8:23:23 PM, SecularMerlin wrote:
At 1/19/2018 7:45:17 PM, Polytheist_Witch wrote:
What makes anyone thing the gods can change or tamper with someone's fate?

I do not believe that myself and so cannot be certain but the claim made by some theists that god is "omnipotent" and answers prayers, especially if they claim specific physical effects can be accomplished through prayer, say the healing power of prayer for example, would seem to suggest that they do believe it whatever the reason.

The God of Abraham claims lots of things. I pray but I know they can't change anyone's fate. They pretty much tell you that. Well mine do.

Sorry just for clarification who tells you?

The gods via the myths and stories. Where else do you get information on them?

Myths and stories are the only place I have ever encountered a god, so I easily concede this point to you.

But again just for clarification what do you do when two myths very clearly contradict one another? How do you decide which is more real?

The gods are different. One's myths will not be the same as another set's myths. There are taboo's in religions for different gods. It's not a matter of more real. You don't wear bikini's in the snow or dress like an Eskimo at the beach.

Yes but christian mythology claims that Jesus is god or at least the son of god, while islamic mythology claims that Jesus was niether. In a case like this how do you decide which is true?

Follow your guts. I am neither and I think Jesus is the Son of God.

Is there a concrete reason you believe that or is it just a gut instinct?

I have reasons but they will not mean anything to anyone. And I don't worship Him so it doesn't matter really
SecularMerlin
Posts: 7,228
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1/19/2018 11:16:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/19/2018 11:00:06 PM, Polytheist_Witch wrote:
At 1/19/2018 9:11:25 PM, SecularMerlin wrote:
At 1/19/2018 8:57:09 PM, Polytheist_Witch wrote:
At 1/19/2018 8:55:39 PM, SecularMerlin wrote:
At 1/19/2018 8:52:13 PM, Polytheist_Witch wrote:
At 1/19/2018 8:49:31 PM, SecularMerlin wrote:
At 1/19/2018 8:37:18 PM, Polytheist_Witch wrote:
At 1/19/2018 8:33:03 PM, SecularMerlin wrote:
At 1/19/2018 8:26:53 PM, Polytheist_Witch wrote:
At 1/19/2018 8:23:23 PM, SecularMerlin wrote:
At 1/19/2018 7:45:17 PM, Polytheist_Witch wrote:
What makes anyone thing the gods can change or tamper with someone's fate?

I do not believe that myself and so cannot be certain but the claim made by some theists that god is "omnipotent" and answers prayers, especially if they claim specific physical effects can be accomplished through prayer, say the healing power of prayer for example, would seem to suggest that they do believe it whatever the reason.

The God of Abraham claims lots of things. I pray but I know they can't change anyone's fate. They pretty much tell you that. Well mine do.

Sorry just for clarification who tells you?

The gods via the myths and stories. Where else do you get information on them?

Myths and stories are the only place I have ever encountered a god, so I easily concede this point to you.

But again just for clarification what do you do when two myths very clearly contradict one another? How do you decide which is more real?

The gods are different. One's myths will not be the same as another set's myths. There are taboo's in religions for different gods. It's not a matter of more real. You don't wear bikini's in the snow or dress like an Eskimo at the beach.

Yes but christian mythology claims that Jesus is god or at least the son of god, while islamic mythology claims that Jesus was niether. In a case like this how do you decide which is true?

Follow your guts. I am neither and I think Jesus is the Son of God.

Is there a concrete reason you believe that or is it just a gut instinct?

I have reasons but they will not mean anything to anyone. And I don't worship Him so it doesn't matter really

Well we don't have to discuss anything you are uncomfortable talking about and we shouldn't discuss anything you don't care to explain because I have a tendency to ask exhaustive questions.
The only true wisdom lies in knowing that you know nothing.
-Socrates

Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality
-Lewis Carrol
Polytheist_Witch
Posts: 4,423
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1/19/2018 11:18:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/19/2018 11:16:23 PM, SecularMerlin wrote:
At 1/19/2018 11:00:06 PM, Polytheist_Witch wrote:
At 1/19/2018 9:11:25 PM, SecularMerlin wrote:
At 1/19/2018 8:57:09 PM, Polytheist_Witch wrote:
At 1/19/2018 8:55:39 PM, SecularMerlin wrote:
At 1/19/2018 8:52:13 PM, Polytheist_Witch wrote:
At 1/19/2018 8:49:31 PM, SecularMerlin wrote:
At 1/19/2018 8:37:18 PM, Polytheist_Witch wrote:
At 1/19/2018 8:33:03 PM, SecularMerlin wrote:
At 1/19/2018 8:26:53 PM, Polytheist_Witch wrote:
At 1/19/2018 8:23:23 PM, SecularMerlin wrote:
At 1/19/2018 7:45:17 PM, Polytheist_Witch wrote:
What makes anyone thing the gods can change or tamper with someone's fate?

I do not believe that myself and so cannot be certain but the claim made by some theists that god is "omnipotent" and answers prayers, especially if they claim specific physical effects can be accomplished through prayer, say the healing power of prayer for example, would seem to suggest that they do believe it whatever the reason.

The God of Abraham claims lots of things. I pray but I know they can't change anyone's fate. They pretty much tell you that. Well mine do.

Sorry just for clarification who tells you?

The gods via the myths and stories. Where else do you get information on them?

Myths and stories are the only place I have ever encountered a god, so I easily concede this point to you.

But again just for clarification what do you do when two myths very clearly contradict one another? How do you decide which is more real?

The gods are different. One's myths will not be the same as another set's myths. There are taboo's in religions for different gods. It's not a matter of more real. You don't wear bikini's in the snow or dress like an Eskimo at the beach.

Yes but christian mythology claims that Jesus is god or at least the son of god, while islamic mythology claims that Jesus was niether. In a case like this how do you decide which is true?

Follow your guts. I am neither and I think Jesus is the Son of God.

Is there a concrete reason you believe that or is it just a gut instinct?

I have reasons but they will not mean anything to anyone. And I don't worship Him so it doesn't matter really

Well we don't have to discuss anything you are uncomfortable talking about and we shouldn't discuss anything you don't care to explain because I have a tendency to ask exhaustive questions.

It's not a matter of being uncomfortable I had a personal experience and that rarely means anything to anyone. I obviously had some with other gods and made a choice.
ethang5
Posts: 22,832
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1/19/2018 11:20:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 1/19/2018 7:41:26 PM, squonk wrote:
At 1/18/2018 5:48:10 PM, ethang5 wrote:
You seem to think prayer is synonymous to "asking for stuff". In the Christian context, prayer is simply conversation with God.

Um...no, according to Jesus, prayer involves asking for stuff. See the verses above.

Then why are you saying "no" when you are not disagreeing? We can ask for things in a convo, but prayer is not simply requesting things, though sloppy thinkers have reduced it to such.

God is not an algorythm or a machine. We don't mouth an incantation and God "must" obey. God is omniscient, blind tests cannot be performed on Him.

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