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# THE Most Difficult Logic Puzzle!

 Posts: 287 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 10/15/2008 11:25:55 PMPosted: 10 years agoThe world's most difficult logic puzzle!(I'd give you the source but then you'd have the answer. )Three gods A , B , and C are called, in some order, True, False, and Random. True always speaks truly, False always speaks falsely, but whether Random speaks truly or falsely is a completely random matter. Your task is to determine the identities of A , B , and C by asking three yes-no questions; each question must be put to exactly one god. The gods understand English, but will answer in their own language, in which the words for yes and no are "da" and "ja", in some order. You do not know which word means which.anyone care to gander. (without looking it up.) :D
 Posts: 50 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 10/16/2008 1:39:45 AMPosted: 10 years agoYou really don't want me to sleep tonight!
 Posts: 50 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 10/16/2008 1:53:06 AMPosted: 10 years agoOk....1. I understand it doesn't have to be the same question asked of each god.2. Do the gods have to answer? Or can they remain mute if necessary?
 Posts: 2,251 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 10/16/2008 5:53:34 AMPosted: 10 years agoAt 10/15/2008 11:25:55 PM, Zerosmelt wrote:The world's most difficult logic puzzle!(I'd give you the source but then you'd have the answer. )Three gods A , B , and C are called, in some order, True, False, and Random. True always speaks truly, False always speaks falsely, but whether Random speaks truly or falsely is a completely random matter. Your task is to determine the identities of A , B , and C by asking three yes-no questions; each question must be put to exactly one god. The gods understand English, but will answer in their own language, in which the words for yes and no are "da" and "ja", in some order. You do not know which word means which.anyone care to gander. (without looking it up.) :DThis is only possible if each time you identify the gods with the same variable each time they answer a question, i.e., if I ask three questions, "True" will, in each of the time he/she answers, be known as "1".: If you weren't new here, you'd know not to feed me such attention. This is like an orgasm in my brain right now. *hehe, my name is in a title, hehe* (http://www.debate.org...) Just in case I get into some BS with FREEDO again about how he's NOT a narcissist. "The law is there to destroy evil under the constitutional government." So... what's there to destroy evil inside of and above the constitutional government?
 Posts: 50 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 10/16/2008 6:11:20 AMPosted: 10 years agoThis is only possible if each time you identify the gods with the same variable each time they answer a question, i.e., if I ask three questions, "True" will, in each of the time he/she answers, be known as "1".Nope. Cos "True" only gets to answer one question. As does False as does Random :PI know the sort of logic required but it's a nutcracker nonetheless.
 Posts: 287 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 10/16/2008 7:39:40 AMPosted: 10 years agojust to be clear i didn't come up with this. This puzzle is just as stated. I don't know anymore about it than you do. I haven't looked at the solution yet so im still in the dark.
 Posts: 287 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 10/16/2008 7:42:23 AMPosted: 10 years agoNope. Cos "True" only gets to answer one question. As does False as does Random :PI don't know if thats true lightkeeper.it says:each question must be put to exactly one god.but i don't think that means each god must have one question.
 Posts: 50 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 10/16/2008 7:33:25 PMPosted: 10 years agobut i don't think that means each god must have one question.I think it does. You're allowed 3 questions in total and each question to be asked of exactly one god. That means you get to ask a question of god A, a question of god B and a question of god C.
 Posts: 6,434 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 10/16/2008 8:21:55 PMPosted: 10 years agobut i don't think that means each god must have one question.I think it does. You're allowed 3 questions in total and each question to be asked of exactly one god. That means you get to ask a question of god A, a question of god B and a question of god C.each question must be put to exactly one god.It simply means each question must be adressed to a specific god. You could ask ne god 3 questions if you so desired - though ultimately pointless. As far as I can tell, you only need to ask one god one question, and another god two questions, to arrive at the answer.Solution requires conditional questioning - i.e. using law of excluded middle - either X is true or not-X is true, for any statement X at all.In this puzzle, questions must include a part on the identity of one god and additionally arrive at the nature of 'ja' and 'da'. If , .
 Posts: 6,434 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 10/16/2008 8:22:43 PMPosted: 10 years agoedit: "ne" to 'one'
 Posts: 50 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 10/16/2008 10:53:07 PMPosted: 10 years agoIt simply means each question must be adressed to a specific god. You could ask ne god 3 questions if you so desired - though ultimately pointless. :You might be right. If you can ask a god more than one question then the puzzle is easier than i thought. :)
 Posts: 50 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 10/17/2008 2:16:46 AMPosted: 10 years agoOk, this puzzle has completely ruined my day. Still thinking. So far I've come up with the following:1. Since any god we ask can be Random, we cannot find the answer directly but rather through a process of elimination.2. Since we don't know what "ja" or "da" is, we must ask a question that will give us a fruitful result regardless of the meaning of those words.I have come up with a possible question that would eliminate some possibilities:Ask god A the following question:"If I were to ask B and C if one of them is True, would we have complete certainty that at least one of them will say ja?"If A answers "ja" then A is Random or True and False is either B or C.If A answers "da" then A is Random or False and True is either B or C.This doesn't solve the riddle but it's this type of question we need to look for.
 Posts: 2,251 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 10/17/2008 7:19:41 AMPosted: 10 years agoOh, I misunderstood the puzzle.: If you weren't new here, you'd know not to feed me such attention. This is like an orgasm in my brain right now. *hehe, my name is in a title, hehe* (http://www.debate.org...) Just in case I get into some BS with FREEDO again about how he's NOT a narcissist. "The law is there to destroy evil under the constitutional government." So... what's there to destroy evil inside of and above the constitutional government?
 Posts: 190 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 10/17/2008 8:44:52 AMPosted: 10 years agoThe way to do this is to find out the answers to each question.Are you True?True answers "Yes" or whatever the answer is for yes.False answers the same way.Random answers randomly.So if anyone says no, you know it's Random.Are you False?It gets same thing, except the one saying yes is Random.Are you Random?True-NoFalse-YesRandom-Yes or NoIf two say yes, they are either False or Random.Unfortunately, you can't know this, and it is hypothetical, and it takes many questions.It's a lot like the Knights and Knaves question, but harder.
 Posts: 190 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 10/17/2008 8:50:43 AMPosted: 10 years agoWait, I have an idea!Ask one of them "Will you answer no in your languageto this question?"If it is true, he cannot answer said question. By doing this, you can narrow it down for sure. From there, ask the same god, a different question.
 Posts: 287 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 10/17/2008 11:07:42 AMPosted: 10 years agogood point...The problem with your assessment above though is that you are relying on the chance that you'll get the random god when its more likely that you won't.
 Posts: 1,155 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 10/17/2008 11:24:20 AMPosted: 10 years agoOddly enough, I was about to write a proof for how it's impossible, but I just came dangerously close to solving it [or have tricked myself into thinking that I am].
 Posts: 287 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 10/17/2008 11:27:37 AMPosted: 10 years agoAt 10/17/2008 11:24:20 AM, beem0r wrote:Oddly enough, I was about to write a proof for how it's impossible, but I just came dangerously close to solving it [or have tricked myself into thinking that I am].The solution in chapter 29 of George Boolos's book Logic, Logic, and Logic.
 Posts: 1,155 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 10/17/2008 11:33:43 AMPosted: 10 years agoAlright, I think it's impossible again.
 Posts: 1,155 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 10/17/2008 11:39:38 AMPosted: 10 years agoAlright, so I have a ridiculous semantics argument for it.It says that we may ask three questions, and we must ask eeach question to exactly one God. However, depending on our definition of "ask three questions" we could ask each question over and over. For example, if I asked you "Do you liek mudkips" 100 different times, by some definitions, I have only asked you one question.I will now write a solution using this.
 Posts: 287 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 10/17/2008 11:41:14 AMPosted: 10 years agoAt 10/17/2008 11:39:38 AM, beem0r wrote:Alright, so I have a ridiculous semantics argument for it.It says that we may ask three questions, and we must ask eeach question to exactly one God. However, depending on our definition of "ask three questions" we could ask each question over and over. For example, if I asked you "Do you liek mudkips" 100 different times, by some definitions, I have only asked you one question.I will now write a solution using this.yeah im pretty sure that is not cool.