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annanicole
Posts: 22,363
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11/12/2012 11:37:24 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Hahahahaha. That's good.

Have you seen tardo do this -

(1) say "Christians believe the scriptures", then
(2) agree, for the sake of unity and scripturalness, to call the church the Jesus established "the church of God", then
(3) in his very next post, do a flip-flop because he can't keep his word?

I've never seen anything like it. He wants to "go by the Bible" and say "Christians believe the scriptures" - then when he wants to name the church, he'll squirm and twist and run and hide and go anywhere but the Bible. Dogknox has no use for the Bible at all.

I'll tell you something else: he's dishonest - lies all the time. He'll agree to answer a few simple questions, then when someone asks him a couple of questions, why, hell will freeze over and the devil will iceskate before he'll give a straight-forward answer. He'll REPLY. But as one reads it, one will notice, "This dumba$$ never answered anything he was asked - he simply ranted." I dunno what's wrong with him.
Ahmed.M
Posts: 616
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11/12/2012 11:49:10 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
If you read the Quran and look at the life of Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) it becomes blatantly obvious.
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,041
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11/12/2012 11:58:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/12/2012 11:49:10 PM, Ahmed.M wrote:
If you read the Quran and look at the life of Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) it becomes blatantly obvious.

A good showing of why I don't believe in the God of Islam.

http://www.youtube.com...
No one normal accomplished anything meaningful in this world.
Catknox
Posts: 12
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11/13/2012 12:49:45 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/12/2012 11:28:00 PM, Catknox wrote:
Dogknox Good to meet you..

The Catholic Church is a corrupt organization!!

If you are Catholic you are forced to reject..Scriptures!

Scriptures say... Some will FORBID marriage!
1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.


Dogknox Do you see it?? Some shall depart from the faith... forbidding to marry!!!

LOGIC tells you.. Catholics reject the scriptures or they are NOT Catholic!!

DO YOU SEE IT??

Dogknox run from the lie of Catholicism.. They reject the scriptures!

Catknox

"DOG got your tongue?!!"
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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11/13/2012 3:31:33 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/12/2012 11:58:33 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
A good showing of why I don't believe in the God of Islam.
Your standards must be very low then!
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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11/13/2012 6:49:19 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/12/2012 11:49:10 PM, Ahmed.M wrote:
If you read the Quran and look at the life of Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) it becomes blatantly obvious.

You do realize that makes no sense, right? Even if muhammad could shoot gold out his butt and regrow peoples limbs, that isn't proof of god. It is just proof of the supernatural.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
truthseeker613
Posts: 464
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11/13/2012 10:53:31 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/10/2012 8:40:30 PM, muzebreak wrote:
This is my question to religious people.

What is it that convinced you that your religion is true?

1) Why do we believe anything that we believe?

Almost all that we believe come from:
a) 1st hand knowledge.
b) Hearing from someone reliable that you trust.
Being that (almost) no one today has 1st hand knowledge, most believers believe because that"s what those they trust told them.

This is not as irrational as it may sound. Most of what we know we know from others; news, history, science, nutrition, etc. We don't need to do the testing or research to believe the facts. We can and do know by listening to those we trust.

As a Jew, I & millions of other Jews have a direct link, parent to child, & teacher to student, for thousands of years, going back to the revelation of god at Mount Sinai.
Everyone tells their children and students about the event at Sinai. This has been going on for thousands of years.
Here is one such chain http://www.simpletoremember.com...

It's more than that though; all other religions are started by a revelation to a few people, think Mohammad, Jesus, Paul, Joseph Smith Jr., Guy Ballard, etc.
(See http://www.simpletoremember.com...)
Judaism is the only religion that was started with a national revelation.

Why is this significant?

If the religion is started by a revelation to one person there are 3 possibilities:
a) He lied
b) He is psychotic
c) He is legitimist

When a religion is based on a national revelation, the 1st 2 possibilities are eliminated.

Thus we are left with possibility #3 which is that the revelation is legitimist.

How could Judaism have gotten started any other way?
A person can convince others that he had a personal vision, but one can"t convince a large group of people, that they (i.e. the people) had a collective experience, if it never really happened.

You can see this argument in extended form at:
http://www.simpletoremember.com...
http://www.simpletoremember.com...
http://www.simpletoremember.com...
http://ohr.edu...

This is one of many arguments for Judaism.

2) Then there are bible codes, I know a lot of people, even believing Jews don't like them, and I agree some are farfetched. But some of them are just too incredible.

Here is one of the most famous ones:

Everyone is familiar with the Purim story / the book of ester. In which a Jewish woman saves the Jewish people from annihilation. At the end of the story the 10 sons of Haman (the antagonist) are hung. In listing the names there are 3 letters that are written small according to tradition, no reason is given for this tradition, see http://kad.biblecommenter.com... Esther 9:7-10.

In 1946, 10 high ranking Nazis were hanged.
The Small letters are ת, שׁ, and ז, Rabbi Weissmandl pointed out that if you combine the three small letters together they form the word תשז, which in the accepted Hebrew notation for year numbers (using Gematria) corresponds to the Jewish year [5]707 Anno Mundi,[61] which is the Jewish year that the 10 Nazi leaders were executed (October 16, 1946 corresponds to Tishrei 21, 5707, the day known as Hoshanna Rabba, the day of severe judgments for the nations of the world, according to the Jewish calendar). http://en.wikipedia.org...

This is where Wikipedia ends, but there is more.
Originally there were 23 on trial, 11 were sentenced to hanging.
A few hours before the hanging, G"ring committed suicide, reducing the final # to 10.

If that's not enough, here's the really freaky part:
Julius Streicher, was one of those who were hanged. Let me quote for you a description of the hanging from an eye witness:

Kingsbury Smith. "Nuremberg News Article Oct. 16, 1946 " The Execution of Nazi War Criminals". University of Missouri-Kansas City.

"Julius Streicher made his melodramatic appearance at 2:12 a.m.

While his manacles were being removed and his bare hands bound, this ugly, dwarfish little man, wearing a threadbare suit and a well-worn bluish shirt buttoned to the neck but without a tie (he was notorious during his days of power for his flashy dress), glanced at the three wooden scaffolds rising menacingly in front of him. Then he glanced around the room, his eyes resting momentarily upon the small group of witnesses. By this time, his hands were tied securely behind his back. Two guards, one on each arm, directed him to Number One gallows on the left of the entrance. He walked steadily the six feet to the first wooden step but his face was twitching.

As the guards stopped him at the bottom of the steps for identification formality he uttered his piercing scream: 'Heil Hitler!'

The shriek sent a shiver down my back.

As its echo died away an American colonel standing by the steps said sharply, 'Ask the man his name.' In response to the interpreter's query Streicher shouted, 'You know my name well.'

The interpreter repeated his request and the condemned man yelled, 'Julius Streicher.'

As he reached the platform, Streicher cried out, 'Now it goes to God.' He was pushed the last two steps to the mortal spot beneath the hangman's rope. The rope was being held back against a wooden rail by the hangman.

Streicher was swung suddenly to face the witnesses and glared at them. Suddenly he screamed, 'Purim Fest 1946.' [Purim is a Jewish holiday celebrated in the spring, commemorating the execution of Haman, ancient persecutor of the Jews described in the Old Testament.]" "
http://en.wikipedia.org...

That is something I cannot ignore.

Here's another one:
This one is found in Benjamin Blech's "If god is good why is the world so bad?":

The author was in conversation with a mystic (BTW, most mystics, if not all, are fake, especially the ones who claim to be mystics, a real mystic would not reveal that he is a mystic. this is not the point thou.)

The mystic mentioned that he has a tradition that every verse in the bible corresponds to the years of history. Every major event of all time will have some illusion to it, direct or indirect.

The state of Israel was declared in 1948 which according to the Jewish calendar corresponds to the year 5,708.
Do you know what the 5,708th verse is?
Deuteronomy 30:3:
"Then the LORD your God will restore you from captivity, and have compassion on you, and will gather you again from all the peoples where the LORD your God has scattered you."

It was amazing to, good to be true, writes Blech. Perhaps it was just a remarkable coincident one of those accidents that are more entertaining than instructive. But it was certainly intriguing: The one verse that speaks of return to the land after centuries of exile is actually the very same # Biblical sentence as the year in which this unlikely event occurred!
The author then asked this man if so it should also work for the holocaust.
The man responded with a smile, "Try it yourself".
Counting the verses backward the verses corresponding to the years of the holocaust were
Those describing the punishment that would befall the Jews, for failure to serve god.
%100 Conclusive proof?
Maybe not. But it cannot be ignored, & should be taken into account.

3) Fulfilled prophesy regarding the Jewish people, with quotes to show the realization of these prophesies...
http://www.nydailynews.com...

royalpaladin: I'd rather support people who kill spies than a nation that organizes assassination squads (Kidon) to illegally enter into other nations and kill anybody who is not a Zionist. Who knows when they'll kill me for the crime of not supporting Israel?

Koopin: LOL! I just imagine Royal sitting in here apartment at night, when suddenly she hears a man outside speaking Hebrew as sh
truthseeker613
Posts: 464
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11/13/2012 10:54:15 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Survival of the Jew: I would like to open with a quote from mark twain in his work entitled "Concerning the Jew":
"If the statistics are right, the Jews constitute but one percent of the human race. It suggests a nebulous dim puff of star dust lost in the blaze of the Milky Way. Properly the Jew ought hardly to be heard of, but he is heard of, has always been heard of. He is as prominent on the planet as any other people, and his commercial importance is extravagantly out of proportion to the smallness of his bulk. His contributions to the world's list of great names in literature, science, art, music, finance, medicine, and abstruse learning are also away out of proportion to the weakness of his numbers. He has made a marvelous fight in the world, in all the ages; and has done it with his hands tied behind him. He could be vain of himself, and be excused for it. The Egyptian, the Babylonian, and the Persian rose, filled the planet with sound and splendor, then faded to dream-stuff and passed away; the Greek and the Roman followed, and made a vast noise, and they are gone; other peoples have sprung up and held their torch high for a time, but it burned out, and they sit in twilight now, or have vanished. The Jew saw them all, beat them all, and is now what he always was, exhibiting no decadence, no infirmities of age, no weakening of his parts, no slowing of his energies, no dulling of his alert and aggressive mind. All things are mortal but the Jew; all other forces pass, but he remains. What is the secret of his immortality?"
We see from these quotes the impressive eternity of the Jew. This has been foretold in the bible Genesis 17:7, Malachi 3:6, Leviticus 5:18, Jeremiah 5:18.

The "Jews will/should be a light unto the nations" was foretold in Isaiah 42:6 end, ibid.60:3 genesis 12:2, 3.
For the next quotes I give credit to simpletoremember.com:
"I will insist the Hebrews have [contributed] more to civilize men than any other nation. If I was an atheist and believed in blind eternal fate, I should still believe that fate had ordained the Jews to be the most essential instrument for civilizing the nations ... They are the most glorious nation that ever inhabited this Earth. The Romans and their empire were but a bubble in comparison to the Jews. They have given religion to three-quarters of the globe..."
- John Adams, Second President of the United States
(From a letter to F. A. Van der Kemp [Feb. 16, 1808] Pennsylvania Historical Society)
"If we were forced to choose just one, there would be no way to deny that Judaism is the most important intellectual development in human history."
- David Gelernter, Yale University Professor
"Some people like the Jews, and some do not. But no thoughtful man can deny the fact that they are, beyond any question, the most formidable and the most remarkable race which has appeared in the world."
- Winston Churchill - Prime Minister of Great Britain
The "Jews will/should be a light unto the nations" was foretold in Isaiah 42:6 end, ibid.60:3 genesis 12:2, 3.

Next is the correlation between fertility of the land of Israel and its inhabitation of the Jews.
Again I quote mark twain I don't have space to quote it in its entirety so the reader is encouraged to look it up "Innocent Abroad or the new pilgrim's progress", vol.2 pp.216-359. Mark Twain wrights of the desolation and unsuitability of the holy land. As we see today the land of Israel is now an agricultural land following the return of the Jews. The sources for this prophesy are Leviticus 26:32, 33 duteronamy29:21, 22 Jerimia9:10 Ezekiel33:28, 29 all predict the desolation of the land. The return is predicted in Deuteronomy 30:3-5 and its following inhabitation and fertilization in Ezekiel36:8-11. We see here the prediction and realization of the Jews miraculous return followed by the lands mysterious revitalization.
There are other examples. See what professor Gottlieb considers to be the prime example: http://ohr.edu...

4) Then there is archaeological evidence:
http://ohr.edu...
5) & finally the argument from Jewish survival:
http://ohr.edu...
http://www.nydailynews.com...

royalpaladin: I'd rather support people who kill spies than a nation that organizes assassination squads (Kidon) to illegally enter into other nations and kill anybody who is not a Zionist. Who knows when they'll kill me for the crime of not supporting Israel?

Koopin: LOL! I just imagine Royal sitting in here apartment at night, when suddenly she hears a man outside speaking Hebrew as sh
Dogknox
Posts: 6,472
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11/13/2012 12:06:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Catknox you asked..
The Catholic Church is a corrupt organization!!
If you are Catholic you are forced to reject..Scriptures!
Scriptures say... Some will FORBID marriage!
1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.


Dogknox Do you see it?? Some shall depart from the faith... forbidding to marry!!!
LOGIC tells you.. Catholics reject the scriptures or they are NOT Catholic!!
DO YOU SEE IT??
Dogknox run from the lie of Catholicism.. They reject the scriptures!

Catknox


I reply: The Catholic Church is the CHURCH Jesus formed... Those Departing from the Catholic Church, PROVES they are the heretics!! DUH!!

The "de-FORMATION' sixteen Hundred years AFTER Jesus formed his Holy Catholic Church were men rejecting sound teaching and DEPARTING FROM.... Jesus' Church!
Some shall depart from the faith in LATER TIMES...
Catknox The Catholic Church did not depart from protestants!! AGAIN DUH!!!

To depart from, they must have first been IN the Faith!!

Martin Luther was CATHOLIC is was "AMONG CATHOLICS!"
2 Peter 2:1
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them"bringing swift destruction on themselves.
2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.


Catknox do you see it???
Martin Luther is a FALSE TEACHER!
He came from AMONG the Church Jesus formed!
The Catholic Church did not come from AMONG Martin Luther!
The PROPHESY can only work in one direction.
The Prophesy PROVES!!!
*Martin Luther the False TEACHER!
*The opposite; The Catholic Church must be a teacher of TRUTH!

* Martin Luther and his TEACHING are destructive heresies! (Scriptures and Faith ALONE) Proves this is true!

* Proving..All of Martin Luther's prodigy are also "False Teachers" >>Protestants!

* The Catholic Church is the "Way Of Truth"!
*All of Martin Luther's prodigy cannot be the way of truth!>> Protestants!!
Luther started the de-formation he rejected sound teaching and CAME FROM AMONG CATHOLIC'S!
just as there will be false teachers among you.
ONE DIRECTION.. The Catholic Church did not come from AMONG the de-formers!

Catknox QUESTION: "is your pastor concerned about the affairs of this world??!"

1 Corinthians 7:32
I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord"s affairs"how he can please the Lord. 33 But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world"how he can please his wife"

DO YOU SEE IT????
Tis better NOT to be married!!!

The Catholic Priest is dedicated to God and God' affairs!
Catholic' believe the scriptures!!!

Dogknox
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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11/13/2012 1:05:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/13/2012 3:31:33 AM, Mirza wrote:
At 11/12/2012 11:58:33 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
A good showing of why I don't believe in the God of Islam.
Your standards must be very low then!
Mr. CP, Are you able to explain any of the referenced arguments yourself, or should I conclude your obvious incapability to do that?
annanicole
Posts: 22,363
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11/13/2012 1:51:32 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Dogknox, it is very, very discouraging to see you try to tell people that they must be baptized in order to be saved. I have seen you defend the teaching over and over, and I must say that it saddens me.
Dogknox
Posts: 6,472
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11/13/2012 2:09:28 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/12/2012 12:22:48 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 11/12/2012 11:12:28 AM, Dogknox wrote:
muzebreak
You said.. No one knows who wrote the books who compose the bible.

I reply: Ultimately God wrote the Bible.. The men who wrote it were INSPIRED by God!

Can you prove that?


There were many false phony manuscripts kicking around.. It got so no one knew what was the real deal!!
The Holy The Holy Catholic Church>> alone decided:
She decided what manuscripts are the LIGAMENT words of God, the TRULY INSPIRED scriptures!!
She alone decided, what manuscripts were the false, phony ones! THEN..
muzebreak then the Holy Catholic Church put all the TRULY God INSPIRED manuscripts into one book!!

Historical documented fact: In 400 A.D.
She (The Holy Catholic Church) named her book.. "The Bible"!

Dogknox

You asked.. Can you prove that? Ultimately God wrote the Bible.. The men who wrote it were INSPIRED by God!

I reply:
Yes... LOGIC alone is needed.
We MUST conclude that either Jesus was just what he claimed to be "God" or he was crazy.
muzebreak Jesus meant what he said and he did what he said he would do.

Christ said he would found a Church.
muzebreak And we see that Church today.. The Holy Catholic Church, She is older then most countries.. Two Thousands years old.
We know that Jesus founded a Church with God' authority to TEACH all the world.

Matthew 28:18
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations....


We know the Church Jesus founded must be an infallible Church, because God cannot err.
The Church Jesus founded with all of God' authority to TEACH.. Tells us the Bible is INSPIRED!

muzebreak without the existence of the Church, we could never know whether the Bible is inspired! It is just this simple!!

The Church tells us the Bible is the inspired words of God.

muzebreak It would not be logical for God to give us a book so complex, unsystematic, obscure, so easy to misinterpret for God NOT TO have given us an AUTHORITY to interpret it right!
muzebreak The bible cannot interpret itself.

Acts 8:30
Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. "Do you understand what you are reading?" Philip asked.
31 "How can I," he said, "unless someone explains it to me?" So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.


The Holy Catholic Church tell you the scriptures are INSPIRED.
You have to take the word of Jesus' Church!
Or reject all the scriptures as fable!
muzebreak There is NO scriptures that say: "The scriptures are inspired by God"!

The Church Jesus formed is accused of error... Also logical; Satan would attack the Bride to gain the souls of men!

Scriptures tell you "False teachers will come out of the Church" "false teachers among you"

2 Peter 2:1
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them"bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.

At the Great Protest the "de-formers" came out of the Holy Catholic Church, again proving the reliability of scriptures!!
just as there will be false teachers among you.

muzebreak The Scriptures can't lie and at the same time be inspired!!

Dogknox
Dogknox
Posts: 6,472
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11/13/2012 2:33:46 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/13/2012 1:51:32 PM, annanicole wrote:
Dogknox, it is very, very discouraging to see you try to tell people that they must be baptized in order to be saved. I have seen you defend the teaching over and over, and I must say that it saddens me.
I said.. "You must be baptized to be; A Child of God"!!

I said.. "The Good thief was NOT Baptized and was still saved, he went to heaven but was not a Child of God he he entered the GARDEN not the Throne room!!"

The Good thief was without sin.. Other wise he would not be in heaven!>>PARADISE is heaven, a Garden!

annanicole The Thief was NOT Baptized by the Holy Bride because he died before Pentecost!

John also died before Pentecost.. He also was NOT BAPTIZED by the BRIDE!!

annanicole John and the Good Thief were NOT God' children because they were NOT baptized by the Bride at Pentecost!
Peter/Church/Bride "ADDED" 3000 people to Jesus' body the first day of Pentecost!

All peoples "IN JESUS' HOLY BODY are God' Children!"
All peoples NOT baptized by the Church/Bride are NOT "FORMED" into Jesus holy Catholic Body!

Matthew 11:11
Truly I tell you, among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet whoever is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

annanicole Clearly John was NOT RE-BORN by the Bride!!
John did not enter the Throne room, he was NOT a Child of God!
yet whoever is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

annanicole John was without sin........
Acts 1:5
For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit."

Mark 1:4
And so John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

annanicole John was without sin........baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

annanicole John' Baptism removed sins.. It did not add to the Body of Jesus!
It did not send the Holy Spirit>> THE GIFT from God to his Children!

annanicole John was without sin but he was NOT.. NOT God' child!
John was saved!
The Good Thief was saved!!

annanicole John and the Good thief were NOT Children of God, they were not >>ADDED<< to Jesus' holy Catholic Church!

40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, "Save yourselves from this corrupt generation." 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

The CHURCH >>ADDED << 3000 to Jesus' holy Body the first day of PENTECOST!!! Not a day sooner!

annanicole John and the Good thief died.. before Pentecost.. before the Bride could ADD people to Jesus' Holy Catholic Body!

Baptism saves..
It removes sins!
The Baptism of the Holy Catholic Bride removes sins and it ADDS People to Jesus' BODY!

annanicole All without sin enter heaven!!!

All are saved without Baptism if they are without sin!

IF...
IF they LOVE!!
Luke 10:25
On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
26 "What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?"
27 He answered, ""Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind"; and, "Love your neighbor as yourself.""
28 "You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "Do this and you will live."

All peoples who LOVE have a multitude of sins removed!
LOVE saves.. "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"

Luke 7:47
Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven"as her great love has shown. But whoever has been forgiven little loves little."

The man with Faith ALONE will never, ever, ever be saved!!!
He is without LOVE he can never, ever, ever be forgiven!
Whoever has been forgiven little loves little.

Dogknox
annanicole
Posts: 22,363
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11/13/2012 3:53:56 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
"Dogknox, it is very, very discouraging to see you try to tell people that they must be baptized in order to be saved. I have seen you defend the teaching over and over, and I must say that it saddens me."

Oh, Dogknox, I fully believe that baptism is necessary in order to be saved and thus enter the body of Christ. That's not the problem.

The problem is that you believe the same thing, yet when questioned by others, you make just about the stupidest defense of the necessity of baptism this side of lunacy. You don't know "eis aphesin tone harmartion" in Acts 2: 38 from Pig Latin spoken by some 2nd grader. You honestly don't. Nor do you know the Textus Receptus from Westcott and Hort. Nor do you know the middle voice in Acts 22: 16. Nor do you know what "gar" means in Gal 3: 27. In fact, I could use up all 8,000 characters rattling off what you don't know. That's what happens when you depend on a stale old fart over in Italy: it makes you ignorant. Thus my original statement above: "I have seen you defend the teaching over and over, and I must say that it saddens me." That's true.

You are correct on the necessity of baptism, but God help us, I do not see how. The defense you offer of the position is downright pathetic. You screw up on the thief on the cross by grossly asserting that he was never baptized. You do not know that - nobody does. You need to learn all you can from the lexicons, Greek grammars, dictionaries, etc, THEN - and only then - offer your position and defense. That'd be my suggestion.
Dogknox
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11/13/2012 7:14:53 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
annanicole
you said.. "Dogknox, it is very, very discouraging to see you try to tell people that they must be baptized in order to be saved.
I reply: "The wind is in your ears!!!"
I did not say: must be baptized in order to be saved.
Read it again.. I said "YOU MUST LOVE TO BE SAVED!!!!!!"

You do not have ears!!
Matthew 13:15
For this people"s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them."

OPEN your ears!!!!!!!!

annanicole I point to scriptures.. Jesus said.. "A new command I give you...YOU MUST LOVE!"

Jesus said.. "You must LOVE God and Neighbor to have eternal life"!

Jesus said.. "The person with little love, is forgive little, the person with faith ALONE will never be forgiven!"

Scriptures..There are just the three (3) Faith hope and LOVE!
Scriptures.. "God is LOVE"!
Logic says.. The man with "Faith ALONE" is God-less and Hope-less!

Scriptures.. If you do not LOVE you do not know God!
Scriptures.. If you love you have God inside!

>>>>>>>>>>I said you MUST LOVE to be saved!<<<<<<<<<<
Never did I say you must be baptized to be saved!!

I said the "Thief on the cross was NOT baptized and he went to Paradise!"

Whack, whack oooooh
annanicole
Posts: 22,363
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11/14/2012 12:47:03 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/13/2012 7:14:53 PM, Dogknox wrote:
annanicole
you said.. "Dogknox, it is very, very discouraging to see you try to tell people that they must be baptized in order to be saved.
I reply: "The wind is in your ears!!!"
I did not say: must be baptized in order to be saved.
Read it again.. I said "YOU MUST LOVE TO BE SAVED!!!!!!"

You do not have ears!!

In the Bull "Exultate Deo" of Pope Eugene IV, is often referred to as a decree of the Council of Florence ... it is undoubtedly a practical instruction, emanating from the Holy See, and as such, has full authenticity in a canonical sense. That is, it is authoritative. The decree speaks thus of Baptism:

(Hear it, Dogknox - you need it)

"Holy Baptism holds the first place among the sacraments, because it is the door of the spiritual life; for by it we are made members of Christ and incorporated with the Church. And since through the first man death entered into all, unless we be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, we can not enter into the kingdom of Heaven, as Truth Himself has told us. The matter of this sacrament is true and natural water; and it is indifferent whether it be cold or hot. The effect of this sacrament is the remission of all sin, original and actual; likewise of all punishment which is due for sin.

Alright, here's more from Trent:

"The negative document we call the canons on baptism decreed by the Council of Trent (Sess. VII, De Baptismo), in which the following doctrines are anathematized (declared heretical)"

OK, Dogknox, the Council of Trent is fixin' to tell you some statements that are considered heretical. Here are a few. These are heretical statements:

1. Baptism is not necessary for salvation. <-- The Council of Trent says that anyone who says that is a heretic. And what did you say, Dogknox? Hear your words: (quote) "I did not say: must be baptized in order to be saved." Huh? And to add insult to injury, Dogknox says again, (quote) "Never did I say you must be baptized to be saved!!" What did Trent say? Let's hear that: unless we be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, we can not enter into the kingdom of Heaven

Does it seem to anyone other than me that Dogknox and the Council of Trent disagree?

And more:

"Baptism is held to be necessary both necessitate medii and pr"cepti. This doctrine is rounded on the words of Christ. In John 3, He declares: "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he can not enter into the kingdom of God." Christ makes no exception to this law and it is therefore general in its application, embracing both adults and infants. It is consequently not merely a necessity of precept but also a necessity of means."

And you prattle on about "love"?

I don't know what to think of you. Here you have the Council of Trent saying you MUST be baptized or be LOST - and that anyone who says otherwise is a heretic. And you come along and say, (quote) "Never did I say you must be baptized to be saved!!"

Well, you SHOULD have. Haven't you ever read the decrees of the council of Trent? Don't you pay any attention?

Matthew 13:15
For this people"s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them."

OPEN your ears!!!!!!!!

Oh, I have. And according to Trent, you're a heretic.

annanicole I point to scriptures.. Jesus said.. "A new command I give you...YOU MUST LOVE!"

Jesus said.. "You must LOVE God and Neighbor to have eternal life"!

Certainly. And you must also be baptized. Remember, the Council of Trent has defined you as a heretic.

Jesus said.. "The person with little love, is forgive little, the person with faith ALONE will never be forgiven!"

Scriptures..There are just the three (3) Faith hope and LOVE!
Scriptures.. "God is LOVE"!
Logic says.. The man with "Faith ALONE" is God-less and Hope-less!

Scriptures.. If you do not LOVE you do not know God!
Scriptures.. If you love you have God inside!

So. The Council of Trent says a person MUST be baptized, or else he is lost - and the Council says anyone who says otherwise is a heretic. Hence, you are a heretic.

>>>>>>>>>>I said you MUST LOVE to be saved!<<<<<<<<<<
Never did I say you must be baptized to be saved!!

Dogknox: "Never did I say you must be baptized to be saved!!"
Dogknox: "Never did I say you must be baptized to be saved!!"
Dogknox: "Never did I say you must be baptized to be saved!!"
Dogknox: "Never did I say you must be baptized to be saved!!"
Dogknox: "Never did I say you must be baptized to be saved!!"

Council of Trent, according to its decrees and definitions pronounces you to be a heretic if you say this:

"Baptism is not necessary for salvation." <-- that's what you said, Dogknox. You said a person simply has to love. You're a heretic.

Pope Eugene IV: "And since through the first man death entered into all, unless we be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, we can not enter into the kingdom of Heaven, as Truth Himself has told us. The matter of this sacrament is true and natural water."

Pope Eugene (and the Council of Florence to which he referred) has pronounced you a heretic.

I said the "Thief on the cross was NOT baptized and he went to Paradise!"

Yeah, you said the thief was never baptized. You never proved it, and you can't. But that doesn't matter any more, Dogknox, because you are in deep doo-doo. The Council of Trent has pronounced you a heretic because you are running around saying that baptism is not necessary to salvation.

Whack, whack oooooh

You'll find that "whack, whack, ooooh's" on me turn around and smack you in the face a hundred-fold harder. Everyone from a pope to the Council of Trent to the Council of Florence has pronounced you a heretic. Remember your fateful words - the words that condemn you:

"(quote) "Never did I say you must be baptized to be saved!!" - Dogknox

Anyone who says "Baptism is not necessary for salvation" is anathema and heretical - Council of Trent

Nice one, Dogknox. Buried yourself again. LOL @ whacko, whacko. You're still an admitted heretic, and there's no way out of it. You should have stood firm with the Council of Trent instead of prattling on about "love". "Love" doesn't not remove the necessity of baptism.

And you're a heretic.
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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11/14/2012 7:42:51 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/13/2012 2:09:28 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 11/12/2012 12:22:48 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 11/12/2012 11:12:28 AM, Dogknox wrote:
muzebreak
You said.. No one knows who wrote the books who compose the bible.

I reply: Ultimately God wrote the Bible.. The men who wrote it were INSPIRED by God!

Can you prove that?


There were many false phony manuscripts kicking around.. It got so no one knew what was the real deal!!
The Holy The Holy Catholic Church>> alone decided:
She decided what manuscripts are the LIGAMENT words of God, the TRULY INSPIRED scriptures!!
She alone decided, what manuscripts were the false, phony ones! THEN..
muzebreak then the Holy Catholic Church put all the TRULY God INSPIRED manuscripts into one book!!

Historical documented fact: In 400 A.D.
She (The Holy Catholic Church) named her book.. "The Bible"!

Dogknox

You asked.. Can you prove that? Ultimately God wrote the Bible.. The men who wrote it were INSPIRED by God!

I reply:
Yes... LOGIC alone is needed.
We MUST conclude that either Jesus was just what he claimed to be "God" or he was crazy.

False.

There is also the option that:

1. He way lying.

2. He thought he was telling the truth.

3. He never said any of what is claimed.

4. He is a myth.
muzebreak Jesus meant what he said and he did what he said he would do.

Christ said he would found a Church.
muzebreak And we see that Church today.. The Holy Catholic Church, She is older then most countries.. Two Thousands years old.
We know that Jesus founded a Church with God' authority to TEACH all the world.

Matthew 28:18
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations....


We know the Church Jesus founded must be an infallible Church, because God cannot err.
The Church Jesus founded with all of God' authority to TEACH.. Tells us the Bible is INSPIRED!

muzebreak without the existence of the Church, we could never know whether the Bible is inspired! It is just this simple!!

The Church tells us the Bible is the inspired words of God.

muzebreak It would not be logical for God to give us a book so complex, unsystematic, obscure, so easy to misinterpret for God NOT TO have given us an AUTHORITY to interpret it right!
muzebreak The bible cannot interpret itself.

Acts 8:30
Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. "Do you understand what you are reading?" Philip asked.
31 "How can I," he said, "unless someone explains it to me?" So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.


The Holy Catholic Church tell you the scriptures are INSPIRED.
You have to take the word of Jesus' Church!
Or reject all the scriptures as fable!
muzebreak There is NO scriptures that say: "The scriptures are inspired by God"!

The Church Jesus formed is accused of error... Also logical; Satan would attack the Bride to gain the souls of men!

Scriptures tell you "False teachers will come out of the Church" "false teachers among you"

2 Peter 2:1
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them"bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.

At the Great Protest the "de-formers" came out of the Holy Catholic Church, again proving the reliability of scriptures!!
just as there will be false teachers among you.

muzebreak The Scriptures can't lie and at the same time be inspired!!

Dogknox
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
Dogknox
Posts: 6,472
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11/14/2012 9:59:39 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
annanicole you have cement in your head...
I did not say: must be baptized in order to be saved.
Read it again.. (above) I said "YOU MUST LOVE TO BE SAVED!!!!!!"

Then you continue with your accusation to the opposite of what I said!!

T H I N K: You can't enter the "KINGDOM" without baptism!!!!!!!!!!!
John did not enter the KINGDOM!!!
The Good Thief did NOT...NOT>>> NOT enter the KINGDOM!!!
The Good Thief was NOT Baptized!
The Thief entered the GARDEN.. He was NOT>>> NOT Baptized!
The THIEF was not a Child of the KING so he did not enter the KINGDOM!
John was not a child of the KING so he also did not enter the KINGDOM!!!
John and the Good Thief entered a GARDEN!!!!!
Matthew 11:11
Truly I tell you, among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet whoever is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

All peoples are BORN OF WOMAN!!!!
Not all are BORN of the BRIDE and GOD!!

Only those BORN of the BRIDE/CHURCH are Children of God!
The Holy Catholic BRIDE, FORMS the children of God with water!
The GROOM, GOD sends the gift.. The HOLY SPIRIT!!!

Water re-forms the children of Adam into the children of the KING!
The Holy Spirit gives these people true life!
5 Jesus answered, "Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.

You are a whack-Ooooh
Dogknox
Posts: 6,472
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11/14/2012 11:29:06 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
We MUST conclude that either Jesus was just what he claimed to be "God" or he was crazy.

You said.. False.
There is also the option that:
1. He way lying.
2. He thought he was telling the truth.
3. He never said any of what is claimed.
4. He is a myth.

I reply: muzebreak There is a GOD!
muzebreak The question is; "Is it the words of God', his words what we read in the bible"?!

The scriptures tell you "Jesus is God!"
The scriptures tell you "Jesus will form a Church", and he did, the Church he formed is still here with us today!
muzebreak They tell you the "Flesh of Jesus is in the form of bread"! The early Church ate his flesh as we still do today!
on
on
and on...
What is written is not a lie!

muzebreak Prophesy in the scriptures is true because none have been proven not true!

What are the odds of even, lets say three things predicted to work out..they odds are very very high, they can't be right!!
BUT...The Scriptures are full of predictions...
ONE Example.. Psalm' was written long before Jesus showed up on the scene!

Psalm 22:16
Dogs surround me,
a pack of villains encircles me;
they pierce my hands and my feet.
17 All my bones are on display;
people stare and gloat over me.
18 They divide my clothes among them
and cast lots for my garment
.


And here with Jesus...
John 19:24
They said therefore among themselves, Let us not rend it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be: that the scripture might be fulfilled, which saith, They parted my raiment among them, and for my vesture they did cast lots. These things therefore the soldiers did.

FACT...God wrote the scriptures!!!

Now you must ask.. HOW..
How do we know the scriptures found in the bible are the truly inspired!!
ANSWER IS.. there were many manuscripts kicking around.. NONE KNEW what was the truly inspired from the PHONY manuscripts kicking around!!!

The Holy Catholic Church decided!!
She alone decided the inspired from the false manuscripts!
muzebreak you have to take the Holy Catholic Church' words for it.. She made the "Bible"!
She was the AUTHORITY that decided the inspired from the phony, false un-inspired manuscripts!

Dogknox
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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11/14/2012 11:42:54 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/14/2012 11:29:06 AM, Dogknox wrote:
We MUST conclude that either Jesus was just what he claimed to be "God" or he was crazy.

You said.. False.
There is also the option that:
1. He way lying.
2. He thought he was telling the truth.
3. He never said any of what is claimed.
4. He is a myth.

I reply: muzebreak There is a GOD!
muzebreak The question is; "Is it the words of God', his words what we read in the bible"?!

The scriptures tell you "Jesus is God!"
The scriptures tell you "Jesus will form a Church", and he did, the Church he formed is still here with us today!
muzebreak They tell you the "Flesh of Jesus is in the form of bread"! The early Church ate his flesh as we still do today!
on
on
and on...
What is written is not a lie!

I wrote down my schedule for school, does that make me god because I can predict when and where those classes will happen?


muzebreak Prophesy in the scriptures is true because none have been proven not true!

Yes, because Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Tyre, not Alexander the great.

Oh, wait...........


What are the odds of even, lets say three things predicted to work out..they odds are very very high, they can't be right!!

Actually, it depends on the prediction. I can predict that I will get a sandwich after I'v already ordered one. I can predict that the sun will set. I can predict many things. And its not really the fulfillment of prophecy if people work to fulfill it.

BUT...The Scriptures are full of predictions...
ONE Example.. Psalm' was written long before Jesus showed up on the scene!

Psalm 22:16
Dogs surround me,
a pack of villains encircles me;
they pierce my hands and my feet.
17 All my bones are on display;
people stare and gloat over me.
18 They divide my clothes among them
and cast lots for my garment
.


And here with Jesus...
John 19:24
They said therefore among themselves, Let us not rend it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be: that the scripture might be fulfilled, which saith, They parted my raiment among them, and for my vesture they did cast lots. These things therefore the soldiers did.

FACT...God wrote the scriptures!!!

Please prove it.


Now you must ask.. HOW..
How do we know the scriptures found in the bible are the truly inspired!!
ANSWER IS.. there were many manuscripts kicking around.. NONE KNEW what was the truly inspired from the PHONY manuscripts kicking around!!!

The Holy Catholic Church decided!!
She alone decided the inspired from the false manuscripts!
muzebreak you have to take the Holy Catholic Church' words for it.. She made the "Bible"!
She was the AUTHORITY that decided the inspired from the phony, false un-inspired manuscripts!

Dogknox

You mean the church that claims condoms increase the chance of getting aids, and that it is ok to move pedophiles around to keep them from being discovered?

I'v one finally message for you.

It doesn't matter if the bible gives us the cure for cancer, or predicts next weeks lottery numbers. Those are not proofs of anything by themselves. Nothing can prove the existence of a god except for a logical argument dictating a gods necessity.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
Dogknox
Posts: 6,472
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11/14/2012 2:41:59 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
muzebreak You said.. I wrote down my schedule for school, does that make me god because I can predict when and where those classes will happen?
I reply: You believe they will happen.. until they happen it is just a BELIEF!
After they happen it is NOT a belief.
The prophesy in scriptures have come to be.
The prophesy was predicted long before they happened, all the harder to predict, don't you think?

Another prophesy..(below) Long before the days of Jesus.
Now I give you four (4) that have worked out to be true.
*"pierce my hands and my feet."
*"Cast lots for Jesus' clothes".
*Born of a Virgin.
*Named Immanuel
Isaiah 7:14
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

muzebreak The odds of them becoming true are far, far, far greater against them.. yet they did come true!
Far less likely then predicting your class schedule.

You asked.. Yes, because Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Tyre, not Alexander the great.

3 therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: I am against you, Tyre, and I will bring many nations against you, like the sea casting up its waves. 4 They will destroy the walls of Tyre and pull down her towers; I will scrape away her rubble and make her a bare rock.

I reply: "many nations" were supposed to destroy the Phoenician city of Tyre, over a long period of time, beginning with Nebuchadnezzar.

You said.. Actually, it depends on the prediction. I can predict that I will get a sandwich after I'v already ordered one. I can predict that the sun will set. I can predict many things. And its not really the fulfillment of prophecy if people work to fulfill it.
I reply: Yes you can predict..
But the Prophesy of scriptures must be predicted by God.. Only he could see so far into the future! Only he could have hundreds of prophesy's!

God wrote the scriptures...
You asked.. Please prove it.

I reply: Again; God can't make mistakes.. His prophesy's are in his scriptures! You would have to prove his many prophesy's wrong and you can't!

The Catholic Church made the bible!
You said.. You mean the church that claims condoms increase the chance of getting aids, and that it is ok to move pedophiles around to keep them from being discovered?

I'v one finally message for you.

It doesn't matter if the bible gives us the cure for cancer, or predicts next weeks lottery numbers. Those are not proofs of anything by themselves. Nothing can prove the existence of a god except for a logical argument dictating a gods necessity.


I reply: All places where birth control is used "Aids has increased"! The ONLY PROVEN way is "ABSTINENCE"!

Nothing can PROVE God does not exist!!!
Prophesy can prove he does exist!
SCriptures can prove he does exist!
The history of man, has always believed in a God or gods. Man is NOT an animal; Pig, goat, sheep, cows... do not believe in God!
muzebreak You lower yourself to that of an Animal! You downgrade yourself, rejecting god and salvation!

Dogknox