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Materialism Refuted

Apeiron
Posts: 2,446
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5/14/2013 10:07:41 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/14/2013 8:08:30 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 5/14/2013 4:52:29 PM, Apeiron wrote:
At 5/14/2013 4:31:30 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 4:27:00 PM, Apeiron wrote:
There's a better route I think and that's various arguments from reason and consciousness that V.Repert and A.Plantinga have put forth, they devastate materialism and show how it's simply self-refuting. Most materialist philosophers nowadays are being forced more and more into a corner by themselves where they all agree with one another and protect their intellectual blunders with strange and various principles of meaning.. all of which are either highly restrictive or ultimately nihilistic.

I can debate materialism in a few weeks if anyone likes.

Who would want to debate in favor of materialism? Lol Most Atheists and Agnostics I know are not materialists.

Right they don't consider themselves to be but I that's more tongue and cheek than anything I think, atheism, if it doesn't imply materialism, then it's some other form of intellectual nihilism.

What do you mean by intellectual nihilism?

Some form of nihilism reaches out and touches various areas of a belief system, whether moral nihilism, reduction of mental states, objective beauty, anything really dealing with the good, intentionality, freedom, substances, etc.
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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5/14/2013 10:13:17 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/14/2013 9:53:48 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 5/14/2013 1:47:56 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 1:27:58 PM, drafterman wrote:
Also, unanswered questions don't refute anything.

If your methodology leaves you unable to address the questions that are unanswered, yes it does.

Since no methodology is able to address all unanswered questions, then all methodologies are refuted.

You're a goddamned genius.

Now you're learning. Christianity is the only worldview that has no unanswered questions.
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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5/14/2013 10:23:19 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/14/2013 9:53:16 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 9:37:21 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 9:23:51 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 9:12:42 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 9:08:05 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 8:07:07 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 5/14/2013 4:22:33 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 4:19:51 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 4:10:23 PM, Radar wrote:
At 5/14/2013 3:54:49 PM, Radar wrote:
At 5/14/2013 2:30:11 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Also strict materialism is a dead philosophy, as quantum mechanics debunks it. This says nothing about physicalism as a whole however.

Right. God-in-the-gaps was replaced by chance-in-the-gaps.

Or, if you prefer, the belief that matter has the innate ability to self-organize; i.e., pantheism.

Gravity can organize matter. Natural chemistry sets can conjure up a self-replicating molecule. Clouds can produce snow flakes. It is not matter organizing itself, but forces of nature acting on matter lol Your understanding of basic science is lacking.

Where do those processes that lead to order come from??

They often arise from other processes. These processes are often not irreducibly complex.

Ok, well where do those processes come from??

Why do they need to?

And if processes need to, why doesn't the supernatural?

Why do they need to what??

Come from somewhere.

How do you explain their existence??

You first...
Assistant moderator to airmax1227. PM me with any questions or concerns!
Dan4reason
Posts: 1,168
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5/14/2013 10:45:23 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/14/2013 9:08:05 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 8:07:07 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 5/14/2013 4:22:33 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 4:19:51 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 4:10:23 PM, Radar wrote:
At 5/14/2013 3:54:49 PM, Radar wrote:
At 5/14/2013 2:30:11 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Also strict materialism is a dead philosophy, as quantum mechanics debunks it. This says nothing about physicalism as a whole however.

Right. God-in-the-gaps was replaced by chance-in-the-gaps.

Or, if you prefer, the belief that matter has the innate ability to self-organize; i.e., pantheism.

Gravity can organize matter. Natural chemistry sets can conjure up a self-replicating molecule. Clouds can produce snow flakes. It is not matter organizing itself, but forces of nature acting on matter lol Your understanding of basic science is lacking.

Where do those processes that lead to order come from??

They often arise from other processes. These processes are often not irreducibly complex.

Ok, well where do those processes come from??

Other processes. This goes on and on until we go to the beginning of the universe which was brought into being by some timeless immaterial force outside the universe.
Dan4reason
Posts: 1,168
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5/14/2013 10:52:27 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/14/2013 10:07:41 PM, Apeiron wrote:
At 5/14/2013 8:08:30 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 5/14/2013 4:52:29 PM, Apeiron wrote:
At 5/14/2013 4:31:30 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 4:27:00 PM, Apeiron wrote:
There's a better route I think and that's various arguments from reason and consciousness that V.Repert and A.Plantinga have put forth, they devastate materialism and show how it's simply self-refuting. Most materialist philosophers nowadays are being forced more and more into a corner by themselves where they all agree with one another and protect their intellectual blunders with strange and various principles of meaning.. all of which are either highly restrictive or ultimately nihilistic.

I can debate materialism in a few weeks if anyone likes.

Who would want to debate in favor of materialism? Lol Most Atheists and Agnostics I know are not materialists.

Right they don't consider themselves to be but I that's more tongue and cheek than anything I think, atheism, if it doesn't imply materialism, then it's some other form of intellectual nihilism.

What do you mean by intellectual nihilism?

Some form of nihilism reaches out and touches various areas of a belief system, whether moral nihilism,

Actually more like making a new way of thinking about morality based on reason.

reduction of mental states,

Explaining mental processes using complex naturalistic mechanisms...

objective beauty,

Actually beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I recommend this twilight zone episode:
http://www.hulu.com...

It is very entertaining and thoughtful. I recommend you watch it if you have 25 minutes.

anything really dealing with the good,

See the response to the part about morality.

intentionality,

Replaced with complex naturalistic processes.

freedom,

Can still exist in an atheistic viewpoint.

substances, etc.

Still exists in an atheist viewpoint.

Don't really see how all this is Nihilistic. Personally explaining stuff in terms of science is a lot funner than the dry mythological explanations.
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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5/14/2013 11:00:03 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/14/2013 10:23:19 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 9:53:16 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 9:37:21 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 9:23:51 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 9:12:42 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 9:08:05 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 8:07:07 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 5/14/2013 4:22:33 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 4:19:51 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 4:10:23 PM, Radar wrote:
At 5/14/2013 3:54:49 PM, Radar wrote:
At 5/14/2013 2:30:11 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Also strict materialism is a dead philosophy, as quantum mechanics debunks it. This says nothing about physicalism as a whole however.

Right. God-in-the-gaps was replaced by chance-in-the-gaps.

Or, if you prefer, the belief that matter has the innate ability to self-organize; i.e., pantheism.

Gravity can organize matter. Natural chemistry sets can conjure up a self-replicating molecule. Clouds can produce snow flakes. It is not matter organizing itself, but forces of nature acting on matter lol Your understanding of basic science is lacking.

Where do those processes that lead to order come from??

They often arise from other processes. These processes are often not irreducibly complex.

Ok, well where do those processes come from??

Why do they need to?

And if processes need to, why doesn't the supernatural?

Why do they need to what??

Come from somewhere.

How do you explain their existence??

You first...

I think you're missing the point here. You're the one who subscribes to a worldview that believes that there is a natural answer for origins. So can you account for the origins of natural laws and processes that direct scientific knowledge, using the science that you believe so strongly in??
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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5/14/2013 11:03:32 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/14/2013 11:00:03 PM, medic0506 wrote:

I think you're missing the point here. You're the one who subscribes to a worldview that believes that there is a natural answer for origins. So can you account for the origins of natural laws and processes that direct scientific knowledge, using the science that you believe so strongly in??

Can you account for the origin of God and the supernatural? Your faith in god and the supernatural is far stronger than any of my beliefs based on science, so of course you should be able to account for God and the supernatural's origin, otherwise it would seem you're hypocritically demanding something from a theory that you can't provide for your own.
Assistant moderator to airmax1227. PM me with any questions or concerns!
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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5/14/2013 11:14:42 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/14/2013 10:45:23 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 5/14/2013 9:08:05 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 8:07:07 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 5/14/2013 4:22:33 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 4:19:51 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 4:10:23 PM, Radar wrote:
At 5/14/2013 3:54:49 PM, Radar wrote:
At 5/14/2013 2:30:11 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Also strict materialism is a dead philosophy, as quantum mechanics debunks it. This says nothing about physicalism as a whole however.

Right. God-in-the-gaps was replaced by chance-in-the-gaps.

Or, if you prefer, the belief that matter has the innate ability to self-organize; i.e., pantheism.

Gravity can organize matter. Natural chemistry sets can conjure up a self-replicating molecule. Clouds can produce snow flakes. It is not matter organizing itself, but forces of nature acting on matter lol Your understanding of basic science is lacking.

Where do those processes that lead to order come from??

They often arise from other processes. These processes are often not irreducibly complex.

Ok, well where do those processes come from??

Other processes. This goes on and on until we go to the beginning of the universe which was brought into being by some timeless immaterial force outside the universe.

In other words, a non-theist can't account for them.
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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5/14/2013 11:24:25 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/14/2013 10:13:17 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 9:53:48 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 5/14/2013 1:47:56 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 1:27:58 PM, drafterman wrote:
Also, unanswered questions don't refute anything.

If your methodology leaves you unable to address the questions that are unanswered, yes it does.

Since no methodology is able to address all unanswered questions, then all methodologies are refuted.

You're a goddamned genius.

Now you're learning. Christianity is the only worldview that has no unanswered questions.

I'm curious, how is it that different sects arose if "Christianity" itself has no unanswered questions? Is there some common "Christian answers" which have simply been misinterpreted by various sects?

Also, what unanswered questions are there in Hinduism (if you want to be specific, Vedanta)?
Dan4reason
Posts: 1,168
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5/14/2013 11:51:09 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/14/2013 11:14:42 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 10:45:23 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 5/14/2013 9:08:05 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 8:07:07 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 5/14/2013 4:22:33 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 4:19:51 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 4:10:23 PM, Radar wrote:
At 5/14/2013 3:54:49 PM, Radar wrote:
At 5/14/2013 2:30:11 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Also strict materialism is a dead philosophy, as quantum mechanics debunks it. This says nothing about physicalism as a whole however.

Right. God-in-the-gaps was replaced by chance-in-the-gaps.

Or, if you prefer, the belief that matter has the innate ability to self-organize; i.e., pantheism.

Gravity can organize matter. Natural chemistry sets can conjure up a self-replicating molecule. Clouds can produce snow flakes. It is not matter organizing itself, but forces of nature acting on matter lol Your understanding of basic science is lacking.

Where do those processes that lead to order come from??

They often arise from other processes. These processes are often not irreducibly complex.

Ok, well where do those processes come from??

Other processes. This goes on and on until we go to the beginning of the universe which was brought into being by some timeless immaterial force outside the universe.

In other words, a non-theist can't account for them.

And by what process did God make the universe? How exactly did he do that?
Radar
Posts: 424
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5/15/2013 3:19:29 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/14/2013 11:51:09 PM, Dan4reason wrote:

And by what process did God make the universe? How exactly did he do that?

For that matter, by what process did God make himself? Kinda simple, really: the same way consciousness is often explained -- self-referring processes.
Apeiron
Posts: 2,446
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5/15/2013 8:24:09 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/14/2013 10:52:27 PM, Dan4reason wrote:


What do you mean by intellectual nihilism?

Some form of nihilism reaches out and touches various areas of a belief system, whether moral nihilism,

Actually more like making a new way of thinking about morality based on reason.

Is that what they use to brain wash ya? ;-)

reduction of mental states,

Explaining mental processes using complex naturalistic mechanisms...

You mean explaining away mental states using physicalism.

objective beauty,

Actually beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I recommend this twilight zone episode:


Thanks for the vid, but their clearly exists beauty in nature and in mathematics of nature, etc. Nihilism is upon you my friend.

intentionality,

Replaced with complex naturalistic processes.

And you get nihilism nihilism nihilism.. (and self-refuting metaphysics)

freedom,

Can still exist in an atheistic viewpoint.

Yes but that would be a stretch given naturalism. Appeals to quantum mechanics won't do either, indeterministic theories aren't yet as solid given the ever pressing experimental success of Bell's theorem, etc

substances, etc.

Still exists in an atheist viewpoint.

In what way?

Don't really see how all this is Nihilistic. Personally explaining stuff in terms of science is a lot funner than the dry mythological explanations.

No ones using mythology, conscious thought is the thing to be explained in its own right, not explained away, and not only that, but a free consciousness that apprehends moral objectivity and rationality, this is all pure serendipity on atheism but doesn't even exist on naturalism. I work in science and know how fund science can be, but I'm also a philosophy of science student, and know where science stops, and where common sense reigns.
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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5/15/2013 9:16:52 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/14/2013 11:03:32 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 11:00:03 PM, medic0506 wrote:

I think you're missing the point here. You're the one who subscribes to a worldview that believes that there is a natural answer for origins. So can you account for the origins of natural laws and processes that direct scientific knowledge, using the science that you believe so strongly in??

Can you account for the origin of God and the supernatural? Your faith in god and the supernatural is far stronger than any of my beliefs based on science, so of course you should be able to account for God and the supernatural's origin, otherwise it would seem you're hypocritically demanding something from a theory that you can't provide for your own.

Yes, God has always existed. He has never not existed so He has no origin.

You're not understanding the difference between supernatural, and natural. If something is claimed to be natural, and scientific, then science should be able to address the question. If science can't address the question, then the answer is supernatural.
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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5/15/2013 9:31:28 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/14/2013 11:24:25 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 5/14/2013 10:13:17 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 9:53:48 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 5/14/2013 1:47:56 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 1:27:58 PM, drafterman wrote:
Also, unanswered questions don't refute anything.

If your methodology leaves you unable to address the questions that are unanswered, yes it does.

Since no methodology is able to address all unanswered questions, then all methodologies are refuted.

You're a goddamned genius.

Now you're learning. Christianity is the only worldview that has no unanswered questions.

I'm curious, how is it that different sects arose if "Christianity" itself has no unanswered questions? Is there some common "Christian answers" which have simply been misinterpreted by various sects?

Yes, I would say that differing interpretations are probably most responsible for the different sects.

Also, what unanswered questions are there in Hinduism (if you want to be specific, Vedanta)?

Where is the evidence for previous cycles, or previous universes??
medic0506
Posts: 13,450
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5/15/2013 9:34:05 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/14/2013 11:51:09 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 5/14/2013 11:14:42 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 10:45:23 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 5/14/2013 9:08:05 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 8:07:07 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 5/14/2013 4:22:33 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 4:19:51 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 4:10:23 PM, Radar wrote:
At 5/14/2013 3:54:49 PM, Radar wrote:
At 5/14/2013 2:30:11 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Also strict materialism is a dead philosophy, as quantum mechanics debunks it. This says nothing about physicalism as a whole however.

Right. God-in-the-gaps was replaced by chance-in-the-gaps.

Or, if you prefer, the belief that matter has the innate ability to self-organize; i.e., pantheism.

Gravity can organize matter. Natural chemistry sets can conjure up a self-replicating molecule. Clouds can produce snow flakes. It is not matter organizing itself, but forces of nature acting on matter lol Your understanding of basic science is lacking.

Where do those processes that lead to order come from??

They often arise from other processes. These processes are often not irreducibly complex.

Ok, well where do those processes come from??

Other processes. This goes on and on until we go to the beginning of the universe which was brought into being by some timeless immaterial force outside the universe.

In other words, a non-theist can't account for them.

And by what process did God make the universe? How exactly did he do that?

He spoke, and it happened.
errindboy
Posts: 5
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5/15/2013 9:35:26 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
Lmfao!!! No one knew why the earth shook or why volcanoes erupted.....there for it was god.........anything that ends with there fore it was god is just as ignorant dumb and illogical as it was to say it back then.....please people its so discouraging how stupid people are
Dan4reason
Posts: 1,168
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5/15/2013 9:37:57 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/15/2013 8:24:09 AM, Apeiron wrote:
At 5/14/2013 10:52:27 PM, Dan4reason wrote:


What do you mean by intellectual nihilism?

Some form of nihilism reaches out and touches various areas of a belief system, whether moral nihilism,

Actually more like making a new way of thinking about morality based on reason.

Is that what they use to brain wash ya? ;-)

Yup, I have been brainwashed with reason. Praise Jesus!

reduction of mental states,

Explaining mental processes using complex naturalistic mechanisms...

You mean explaining away mental states using physicalism.

I am not explaining them away, I am explaining them.

objective beauty,

Actually beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I recommend this twilight zone episode:


Thanks for the vid, but their clearly exists beauty in nature and in mathematics of nature, etc. Nihilism is upon you my friend.

There is beauty in nature, but that beauty is only projected by us. As long as nature is beauty to me, there is no need for Nihilism.

intentionality,

Replaced with complex naturalistic processes.

And you get nihilism nihilism nihilism.. (and self-refuting metaphysics)

There is still a purpose in the things of nature. The only difference is that purpose was created by natural processes not a designer.

freedom,

Can still exist in an atheistic viewpoint.

Yes but that would be a stretch given naturalism. Appeals to quantum mechanics won't do either, indeterministic theories aren't yet as solid given the ever pressing experimental success of Bell's theorem, etc

According to naturalism we are our physical selves, literally. Our brains contain many mechanisms for thought and control of our body. Our brains work according to cause and effect with one set of chemical state creating another chemical state. However this all happens under the supervision of the mechanisms in our brains, so it is really the structures in our brains manipulating the chemical reactions in our brains in order to do what we want. Since we are our brains and the structures in our brains it is we who are in control.

substances, etc.

Still exists in an atheist viewpoint.

In what way?

We know that matter exists.

Don't really see how all this is Nihilistic. Personally explaining stuff in terms of science is a lot funner than the dry mythological explanations.

No ones using mythology, conscious thought is the thing to be explained in its own right, not explained away, and not only that, but a free consciousness that apprehends moral objectivity and rationality, this is all pure serendipity on atheism but doesn't even exist on naturalism. I work in science and know how fund science can be, but I'm also a philosophy of science student, and know where science stops, and where common sense reigns.

Consciousness remains a mystery and cannot be explained with any of our current understanding of our brains and bodies but that doesn't mean that magic must explain it and not science.

While we are mostly free from things outside us, we are not free of our own natures. While we may make the decision to escape from one part of our nature, this decision requires the effort and agreement of other parts of our natures. So we are slaves to ourselves.
Dan4reason
Posts: 1,168
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5/15/2013 9:39:28 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/15/2013 9:34:05 AM, medic0506 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 11:51:09 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 5/14/2013 11:14:42 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 10:45:23 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 5/14/2013 9:08:05 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 8:07:07 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 5/14/2013 4:22:33 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 4:19:51 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 4:10:23 PM, Radar wrote:
At 5/14/2013 3:54:49 PM, Radar wrote:
At 5/14/2013 2:30:11 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Also strict materialism is a dead philosophy, as quantum mechanics debunks it. This says nothing about physicalism as a whole however.

Right. God-in-the-gaps was replaced by chance-in-the-gaps.

Or, if you prefer, the belief that matter has the innate ability to self-organize; i.e., pantheism.

Gravity can organize matter. Natural chemistry sets can conjure up a self-replicating molecule. Clouds can produce snow flakes. It is not matter organizing itself, but forces of nature acting on matter lol Your understanding of basic science is lacking.

Where do those processes that lead to order come from??

They often arise from other processes. These processes are often not irreducibly complex.

Ok, well where do those processes come from??

Other processes. This goes on and on until we go to the beginning of the universe which was brought into being by some timeless immaterial force outside the universe.

In other words, a non-theist can't account for them.

And by what process did God make the universe? How exactly did he do that?

He spoke, and it happened.

How did God's speaking lead to the creation of matter from nothing? You cannot answer this. So really we both really can't explain how a lot of things got here.
errindboy
Posts: 5
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5/15/2013 9:53:21 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
Repeat after me.....and continue repeating until it makes sense......."if I don't understand it god is not the answer" repeat as many times as needed to stop being stupid......and while you repeat it read some of the other mysteries in history that god was the assumed answer that we now know have real explanations.......use that brain of yours!!! I'm sure your "god" wouldn't want it to go to waste!!! Holy crap
errindboy
Posts: 5
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5/15/2013 9:59:38 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/15/2013 9:53:21 AM, errindboy wrote:
Repeat after me.....and continue repeating until it makes sense......."if I don't understand it god is not the answer" repeat as many times as needed to stop being stupid......and while you repeat it read some of the other mysteries in history that god was the assumed answer that we now know have real explanations.......use that brain of yours!!! I'm sure your "god" wouldn't want it to go to waste!!! Holy crap

And by "holy crap" I do intend the pun!! Literally....thank you
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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5/15/2013 11:53:31 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/14/2013 10:13:17 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 9:53:48 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 5/14/2013 1:47:56 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 1:27:58 PM, drafterman wrote:
Also, unanswered questions don't refute anything.

If your methodology leaves you unable to address the questions that are unanswered, yes it does.

Since no methodology is able to address all unanswered questions, then all methodologies are refuted.

You're a goddamned genius.

Now you're learning. Christianity is the only worldview that has no unanswered questions.

Wrong. ALL world views have unanswered questions.
errindboy
Posts: 5
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5/15/2013 12:03:49 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Lmfao!!!! In answered questions?? OK I get it.....this is either a joke and someone messing around pretending to be this dumb just for laughs........or the alternative is.....k am scared of the world of stupidity in the word I live in and what a danger it presents to all of us......individually and as a species!!! Wow!!! And unfortunately even if this is a joke there really are people this ignorant in the world...ugghh
errindboy
Posts: 5
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5/15/2013 12:05:35 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/15/2013 12:03:49 PM, errindboy wrote:
Lmfao!!!! In answered questions?? OK I get it.....this is either a joke and someone messing around pretending to be this dumb just for laughs........or the alternative is.....k am scared of the world of stupidity in the word I live in and what a danger it presents to all of us......individually and as a species!!! Wow!!! And unfortunately even if this is a joke there really are people this ignorant in the world...ugghh

You'll have to excuse the typos......just in shock I guess
AlbinoBunny
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5/15/2013 12:50:00 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
We don't know certain things, so let's make up other things with no sufficient evidence.
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bladerunner060
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5/15/2013 1:45:09 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/14/2013 9:53:16 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 9:37:21 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 9:23:51 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 9:12:42 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 9:08:05 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 8:07:07 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 5/14/2013 4:22:33 PM, medic0506 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 4:19:51 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 4:10:23 PM, Radar wrote:
At 5/14/2013 3:54:49 PM, Radar wrote:
At 5/14/2013 2:30:11 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Also strict materialism is a dead philosophy, as quantum mechanics debunks it. This says nothing about physicalism as a whole however.

Right. God-in-the-gaps was replaced by chance-in-the-gaps.

Or, if you prefer, the belief that matter has the innate ability to self-organize; i.e., pantheism.

Gravity can organize matter. Natural chemistry sets can conjure up a self-replicating molecule. Clouds can produce snow flakes. It is not matter organizing itself, but forces of nature acting on matter lol Your understanding of basic science is lacking.

Where do those processes that lead to order come from??

They often arise from other processes. These processes are often not irreducibly complex.

Ok, well where do those processes come from??

Why do they need to?

And if processes need to, why doesn't the supernatural?

Why do they need to what??

Come from somewhere.

How do you explain their existence??

How do you explain the supernatural's existence?
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bladerunner060
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5/15/2013 1:49:23 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
First off, whoops, I somehow was on the wrong page responding to the wrong comment.

Second:

At 5/15/2013 9:16:52 AM, medic0506 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 11:03:32 PM, bladerunner060 wrote:
At 5/14/2013 11:00:03 PM, medic0506 wrote:

I think you're missing the point here. You're the one who subscribes to a worldview that believes that there is a natural answer for origins. So can you account for the origins of natural laws and processes that direct scientific knowledge, using the science that you believe so strongly in??

Can you account for the origin of God and the supernatural? Your faith in god and the supernatural is far stronger than any of my beliefs based on science, so of course you should be able to account for God and the supernatural's origin, otherwise it would seem you're hypocritically demanding something from a theory that you can't provide for your own.

Yes, God has always existed. He has never not existed so He has no origin.

You're not understanding the difference between supernatural, and natural. If something is claimed to be natural, and scientific, then science should be able to address the question. If science can't address the question, then the answer is supernatural.

No, that's simply and flatly wrong. Just because science doesn't have an answer yet, doesn't make the answer supernatural.

For example (And I recently used this same example in a discussion with YYW):

I have a box, I tell you there's a cat in it. You can't look in the box. That doesn't mean that the cat is supernatural.

Just because we don't have an answer to a question doesn't mean the answer must be supernatural. They are utterly unrelated. Further "It just does" is a copout. I didn't ask "How long has god existed", I asked "Can you account for god's origin". The answer is, apparently, that you can't. You simply assert he's always existed. You have no evidence for the assertion.

Would you like me to make up an answer to your question, phrased in such a way that you can't test it? I probably could, but I find it more intellectually honest to admit I don't know.
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Radar
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5/15/2013 3:01:05 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
I wonder why people are obsessed with reducing everything to concepts. It's irrational. After all, concepts of being and experiencing of being are mutually exclusive.
AlbinoBunny
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5/15/2013 3:21:14 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/15/2013 3:01:05 PM, Radar wrote:
I wonder why people are obsessed with reducing everything to concepts. It's irrational. After all, concepts of being and experiencing of being are mutually exclusive.

You'd just sit there and think you can't understand anything so not try to either? Well we won't. :)
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

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Radar
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5/15/2013 3:28:19 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/15/2013 3:21:14 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 5/15/2013 3:01:05 PM, Radar wrote:
I wonder why people are obsessed with reducing everything to concepts. It's irrational. After all, concepts of being and experiencing of being are mutually exclusive.

You'd just sit there and think you can't understand anything so not try to either? Well we won't. :)

LOL! And this coming from someone who's comfortable with "just because" or "chance-in-the-gaps."
AlbinoBunny
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5/15/2013 10:57:48 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 5/15/2013 3:28:19 PM, Radar wrote:
At 5/15/2013 3:21:14 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 5/15/2013 3:01:05 PM, Radar wrote:
I wonder why people are obsessed with reducing everything to concepts. It's irrational. After all, concepts of being and experiencing of being are mutually exclusive.

You'd just sit there and think you can't understand anything so not try to either? Well we won't. :)

LOL! And this coming from someone who's comfortable with "just because" or "chance-in-the-gaps."

I merely ask for evidence of your case, not just you running away into "your mind may not interpret reality right" and then construct some obscure "God" in those gaps through what I've learnt is likely a mix of equivocation and "God of the gaps".

I don't say "just because", or "chance-in-the-gaps".
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

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http://www.debate.org... - Running for president.
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May the best man win!

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