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Children, Critical Thinking and Religion

brontoraptor
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7/18/2016 3:21:29 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/16/2016 9:29:12 PM, matt8800 wrote:
Can one raise children to be religious and simultaneously teach them critical thinking skills?

If magic was real, would critical thinking still be relevant? If so, how?

For example, Joseph Smith claimed to have 'seer stones' which he used to translate gold tablets he claimed he found into the Book of Mormon. Can a Mormon teach their children to analyze assertions critically and still get them to believe in the validity of Smith's seer stones? If so, how?

If you believe that the above analogy does not apply to <insert your religion here>, please explain how.

I will present you a debate I was in. If you feel you can challenge my argument, challenge me on the subject. Otherwise, all I hear is the sound of a scared, yellow, chicken who has some deep need for theists to be wrong to cover up some hidden sin and justify it. If you do not challenge me to a debate on the issues presented in the debate I provide the link for, enough said.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
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7/18/2016 3:22:09 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Link-

http://www.debate.org...
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
SpiritandTruth
Posts: 2,315
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7/18/2016 3:27:51 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
The scriptures say that the unbelievers are blinded due to their perverse minds. They don't have the love of truth, that's why they don't believe in the truth. Because they do not believe the truth, they have become crooked in all their ways.
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. As many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of the will of God. The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth,
matt8800
Posts: 2,773
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7/18/2016 3:48:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/18/2016 3:21:29 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/16/2016 9:29:12 PM, matt8800 wrote:
Can one raise children to be religious and simultaneously teach them critical thinking skills?

If magic was real, would critical thinking still be relevant? If so, how?

For example, Joseph Smith claimed to have 'seer stones' which he used to translate gold tablets he claimed he found into the Book of Mormon. Can a Mormon teach their children to analyze assertions critically and still get them to believe in the validity of Smith's seer stones? If so, how?

If you believe that the above analogy does not apply to <insert your religion here>, please explain how.

I will present you a debate I was in. If you feel you can challenge my argument, challenge me on the subject. Otherwise, all I hear is the sound of a scared, yellow, chicken who has some deep need for theists to be wrong to cover up some hidden sin and justify it. If you do not challenge me to a debate on the issues presented in the debate I provide the link for, enough said.

I looked at the debate link you provided in the subsequent post.

I am not going to waste my time debating whether 'prophesies' of beasts, demons, graven images, forehead marks, war against a lamb, 666, ISIS, etc are valid for the same reason I wouldn't waste time debating as to whether prophesies in the Quran are valid.
Ramshutu
Posts: 5,445
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7/18/2016 12:08:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/16/2016 9:29:12 PM, matt8800 wrote:
Can one raise children to be religious and simultaneously teach them critical thinking skills?

If magic was real, would critical thinking still be relevant? If so, how?

For example, Joseph Smith claimed to have 'seer stones' which he used to translate gold tablets he claimed he found into the Book of Mormon. Can a Mormon teach their children to analyze assertions critically and still get them to believe in the validity of Smith's seer stones? If so, how?

If you believe that the above analogy does not apply to <insert your religion here>, please explain how.

I don't think that the problem is a lack of an ability to think or reason Critically, because there are a great many people who in their professional lives must have the ability to do just that if they wanted to hold down some sort of reasonably well paying Job.

A big part of the problem is that it's not possible for most people to separate an attack on a belief they hold, with an attack on themselves personally; and it ends up that "winning" becomes more important than being interested in obtaining the best, most accurate picture of how reality really works.

Aside from the odd belligerent sociopath here, like Bronoraptor, who likely has one of the worst types of narcissistic personality disorders; and likely a few others who have legitimate issues with personal reasoning skills; most of the people here have reasoning skills but to some point or another end up falling down into that pattern.

It's the source of "the pushback effect", and is actually demonstrated by people on both sides of the argument here.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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7/18/2016 1:18:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/18/2016 3:18:31 AM, matt8800 wrote:
At 7/18/2016 3:16:51 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/16/2016 9:29:12 PM, matt8800 wrote:
Can one raise children to be religious and simultaneously teach them critical thinking skills?

If magic was real, would critical thinking still be relevant? If so, how?

For example, Joseph Smith claimed to have 'seer stones' which he used to translate gold tablets he claimed he found into the Book of Mormon. Can a Mormon teach their children to analyze assertions critically and still get them to believe in the validity of Smith's seer stones? If so, how?

If you believe that the above analogy does not apply to <insert your religion here>, please explain how.

I just had a debate with a full blown atheist who kept getting confused by my arguments, and I couldn't figure out why. It turned out they were a little kid who had been militantly sold a dogmatic atheism. He had never heard the creationist side. That is called "indoctrination".

Are you indoctrinating your children if you don't teach them Mormonism?

That argument makes no sense.

Every group indoctrinates. That's the point. Atheists are mad that religions "indoctrinate". Then what do THEY do? Indoctrinate.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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7/18/2016 1:22:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/18/2016 12:08:03 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 7/16/2016 9:29:12 PM, matt8800 wrote:
Can one raise children to be religious and simultaneously teach them critical thinking skills?

If magic was real, would critical thinking still be relevant? If so, how?

For example, Joseph Smith claimed to have 'seer stones' which he used to translate gold tablets he claimed he found into the Book of Mormon. Can a Mormon teach their children to analyze assertions critically and still get them to believe in the validity of Smith's seer stones? If so, how?

If you believe that the above analogy does not apply to <insert your religion here>, please explain how.

I don't think that the problem is a lack of an ability to think or reason Critically, because there are a great many people who in their professional lives must have the ability to do just that if they wanted to hold down some sort of reasonably well paying Job.

A big part of the problem is that it's not possible for most people to separate an attack on a belief they hold, with an attack on themselves personally; and it ends up that "winning" becomes more important than being interested in obtaining the best, most accurate picture of how reality really works.

Aside from the odd belligerent sociopath here, like Bronoraptor, who likely has one of the worst types of narcissistic personality disorders; and likely a few others who have legitimate issues with personal reasoning skills; most of the people here have reasoning skills but to some point or another end up falling down into that pattern.

It's the source of "the pushback effect", and is actually demonstrated by people on both sides of the argument here.

And...no atheists want to debate bronto... wierdhow that works. Wonder why they are scared? They don't want their worldview challenged. Sociopathy would be going on a forum called "religion", then claiming to not be religious, and finally, attacking religion. Debate me Ram, or is your worldview not quite as secure as you might think?
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
bulproof
Posts: 36,669
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7/18/2016 1:30:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/18/2016 1:22:24 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/18/2016 12:08:03 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 7/16/2016 9:29:12 PM, matt8800 wrote:
Can one raise children to be religious and simultaneously teach them critical thinking skills?

If magic was real, would critical thinking still be relevant? If so, how?

For example, Joseph Smith claimed to have 'seer stones' which he used to translate gold tablets he claimed he found into the Book of Mormon. Can a Mormon teach their children to analyze assertions critically and still get them to believe in the validity of Smith's seer stones? If so, how?

If you believe that the above analogy does not apply to <insert your religion here>, please explain how.

I don't think that the problem is a lack of an ability to think or reason Critically, because there are a great many people who in their professional lives must have the ability to do just that if they wanted to hold down some sort of reasonably well paying Job.

A big part of the problem is that it's not possible for most people to separate an attack on a belief they hold, with an attack on themselves personally; and it ends up that "winning" becomes more important than being interested in obtaining the best, most accurate picture of how reality really works.

Aside from the odd belligerent sociopath here, like Bronoraptor, who likely has one of the worst types of narcissistic personality disorders; and likely a few others who have legitimate issues with personal reasoning skills; most of the people here have reasoning skills but to some point or another end up falling down into that pattern.

It's the source of "the pushback effect", and is actually demonstrated by people on both sides of the argument here.

And...no atheists want to debate bronto... wierdhow that works. Wonder why they are scared? They don't want their worldview challenged. Sociopathy would be going on a forum called "religion", then claiming to not be religious, and finally, attacking religion. Debate me Ram, or is your worldview not quite as secure as you might think?
You have nothing to debate saurus. Go out to the local kebab shop and buy yourself a life.
bulproof
Posts: 36,669
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7/18/2016 1:32:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/18/2016 1:18:26 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/18/2016 3:18:31 AM, matt8800 wrote:
At 7/18/2016 3:16:51 AM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/16/2016 9:29:12 PM, matt8800 wrote:
Can one raise children to be religious and simultaneously teach them critical thinking skills?

If magic was real, would critical thinking still be relevant? If so, how?

For example, Joseph Smith claimed to have 'seer stones' which he used to translate gold tablets he claimed he found into the Book of Mormon. Can a Mormon teach their children to analyze assertions critically and still get them to believe in the validity of Smith's seer stones? If so, how?

If you believe that the above analogy does not apply to <insert your religion here>, please explain how.

I just had a debate with a full blown atheist who kept getting confused by my arguments, and I couldn't figure out why. It turned out they were a little kid who had been militantly sold a dogmatic atheism. He had never heard the creationist side. That is called "indoctrination".

Are you indoctrinating your children if you don't teach them Mormonism?

That argument makes no sense.

Every group indoctrinates. That's the point. Atheists are mad that religions "indoctrinate". Then what do THEY do? Indoctrinate.
Yeah dropkick, atheists aren't a group.
ethang5
Posts: 17,295
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7/18/2016 1:38:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/18/2016 2:07:58 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 7/16/2016 9:29:12 PM, matt8800 wrote:
Can one raise children to be religious and simultaneously teach them critical thinking skills?

Can one raise a child to be an atheist and simultaneously teach them critical thinking skills lol?? absolutely not, atheism is a mental control, it limits a persons real potential by an infinity. Imagine living your whole life believing a scam that all you can and will ever possess and live within is this little, tiny, suffocating box when in reality you possess something far greater. There is no "critical thinking" in materialism, carnality. There is so much more dynamics and understanding in Theism.
Once again, you're probably confusing atheism with science lol, those are not one and the same. One is a method to explore the natural world, the other a false ideology.

Critical thinking- "the objective analysis and evaluation of an issue in order to form a judgment."

Now suppose you critically thinking atheists come to find out the world is a little larger than you thought and once perceived beyond materialism. How would your ideology and world view permit critical thinking and understanding beyond the material?

If magic was real, would critical thinking still be relevant? If so, how?

Why not? what does this "magic" represent? some how I sense a straw man coming on....

If you believe that the above analogy does not apply to <insert your religion here>, please explain how.

There is nothing in Christianity which restricts or undermines critical thinking,that is wishful thinking on your part.

This is quite true. Almost all the great foundational discoveries of science were accomplished by religious men. Countries that have made the greatest contributions to human scientific advancement have all been deeply religious.

Before the poor reading comprehension dweebs log in, please, I am not saying that religion causes better science or that atheists cannot be good scientists. I am saying that the claim that all religion inhibits critical thinking is obviously false. History disproves it.

And just like anything else, what the religion actually says makes a difference. But the atheist doesn't want all that detail. He wants Christianity lumped in with Pastafarianism for example, so that this bogus claim can appear logical.

Finally, look at our forum. The atheists here, almost to a man, are besotted with irrational thinking and contradictory beliefs. Critical thinking would perish of loneliness at one of their summer camps.

But it was an entertaining post!
bulproof
Posts: 36,669
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7/18/2016 1:48:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/18/2016 1:38:45 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 7/18/2016 2:07:58 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 7/16/2016 9:29:12 PM, matt8800 wrote:
Can one raise children to be religious and simultaneously teach them critical thinking skills?

Can one raise a child to be an atheist and simultaneously teach them critical thinking skills lol?? absolutely not, atheism is a mental control, it limits a persons real potential by an infinity. Imagine living your whole life believing a scam that all you can and will ever possess and live within is this little, tiny, suffocating box when in reality you possess something far greater. There is no "critical thinking" in materialism, carnality. There is so much more dynamics and understanding in Theism.
Once again, you're probably confusing atheism with science lol, those are not one and the same. One is a method to explore the natural world, the other a false ideology.

Critical thinking- "the objective analysis and evaluation of an issue in order to form a judgment."

Now suppose you critically thinking atheists come to find out the world is a little larger than you thought and once perceived beyond materialism. How would your ideology and world view permit critical thinking and understanding beyond the material?

If magic was real, would critical thinking still be relevant? If so, how?

Why not? what does this "magic" represent? some how I sense a straw man coming on....

If you believe that the above analogy does not apply to <insert your religion here>, please explain how.

There is nothing in Christianity which restricts or undermines critical thinking,that is wishful thinking on your part.

This is quite true. Almost all the great foundational discoveries of science were accomplished by religious men. Countries that have made the greatest contributions to human scientific advancement have all been deeply religious.

Before the poor reading comprehension dweebs log in, please, I am not saying that religion causes better science or that atheists cannot be good scientists. I am saying that the claim that all religion inhibits critical thinking is obviously false. History disproves it.

And just like anything else, what the religion actually says makes a difference. But the atheist doesn't want all that detail. He wants Christianity lumped in with Pastafarianism for example, so that this bogus claim can appear logical.

Finally, look at our forum. The atheists here, almost to a man, are besotted with irrational thinking and contradictory beliefs. Critical thinking would perish of loneliness at one of their summer camps.

But it was an entertaining post!
Yeah thang you claim that gods exist and you can provide absolutely no evidence to support that claim.
Your claim is rejected.
That is atheism, if you wish to prove atheism wrong then simply produce evidence that supports your claim.
Ramshutu
Posts: 5,445
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7/18/2016 2:01:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/18/2016 1:22:24 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/18/2016 12:08:03 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 7/16/2016 9:29:12 PM, matt8800 wrote:
Can one raise children to be religious and simultaneously teach them critical thinking skills?

If magic was real, would critical thinking still be relevant? If so, how?

For example, Joseph Smith claimed to have 'seer stones' which he used to translate gold tablets he claimed he found into the Book of Mormon. Can a Mormon teach their children to analyze assertions critically and still get them to believe in the validity of Smith's seer stones? If so, how?

If you believe that the above analogy does not apply to <insert your religion here>, please explain how.

I don't think that the problem is a lack of an ability to think or reason Critically, because there are a great many people who in their professional lives must have the ability to do just that if they wanted to hold down some sort of reasonably well paying Job.

A big part of the problem is that it's not possible for most people to separate an attack on a belief they hold, with an attack on themselves personally; and it ends up that "winning" becomes more important than being interested in obtaining the best, most accurate picture of how reality really works.

Aside from the odd belligerent sociopath here, like Bronoraptor, who likely has one of the worst types of narcissistic personality disorders; and likely a few others who have legitimate issues with personal reasoning skills; most of the people here have reasoning skills but to some point or another end up falling down into that pattern.

It's the source of "the pushback effect", and is actually demonstrated by people on both sides of the argument here.

And...no atheists want to debate bronto... wierdhow that works. Wonder why they are scared? They don't want their worldview challenged. Sociopathy would be going on a forum called "religion", then claiming to not be religious, and finally, attacking religion. Debate me Ram, or is your worldview not quite as secure as you might think?

In a debate, as here, your just going to spout an incoherent stream of verbiage in which truth and reality is more of an obstacle to be avoided, than the goal of the exercise. I'd end up winning, because while most people don't have the psychological training to be able to define what your problem is, it's pretty self evident to everyone who isn't you that you lack even the most intangible of grasps on rational thinking. I won't have been presented with anything difficult, or that I haven't heard a hundred times before, and nothing that I really have to think about.

I'd much prefer to talk with people who disagree with me, but can compose a sentence without doing the discussion forum equivalent of proclaiming themselves the emperor of the universe as they smeared faeces on themselves.
RoderickSpode
Posts: 4,268
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7/18/2016 2:17:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/16/2016 9:29:12 PM, matt8800 wrote:
Can one raise children to be religious and simultaneously teach them critical thinking skills?

If magic was real, would critical thinking still be relevant? If so, how?

For example, Joseph Smith claimed to have 'seer stones' which he used to translate gold tablets he claimed he found into the Book of Mormon. Can a Mormon teach their children to analyze assertions critically and still get them to believe in the validity of Smith's seer stones? If so, how?

If you believe that the above analogy does not apply to <insert your religion here>, please explain how.
Yes, they can.

The assumption is made by some that there is no God. If one doesn't assume there is no God, that changes the landscape of your scenario. It's not about one's religion.
bulproof
Posts: 36,669
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7/18/2016 2:26:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/18/2016 2:17:13 PM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 7/16/2016 9:29:12 PM, matt8800 wrote:
Can one raise children to be religious and simultaneously teach them critical thinking skills?

If magic was real, would critical thinking still be relevant? If so, how?

For example, Joseph Smith claimed to have 'seer stones' which he used to translate gold tablets he claimed he found into the Book of Mormon. Can a Mormon teach their children to analyze assertions critically and still get them to believe in the validity of Smith's seer stones? If so, how?

If you believe that the above analogy does not apply to <insert your religion here>, please explain how.
Yes, they can.

The assumption is made by some that there is no God. If one doesn't assume there is no God, that changes the landscape of your scenario. It's not about one's religion.
You see that is not the assumption at all.
Theists CLAIM that gods exist, atheists reject the claim because theists cannot provide evidence in support of their claim.
There is no assumption presented.
RoderickSpode
Posts: 4,268
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7/18/2016 2:31:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/18/2016 2:26:36 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/18/2016 2:17:13 PM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 7/16/2016 9:29:12 PM, matt8800 wrote:
Can one raise children to be religious and simultaneously teach them critical thinking skills?

If magic was real, would critical thinking still be relevant? If so, how?

For example, Joseph Smith claimed to have 'seer stones' which he used to translate gold tablets he claimed he found into the Book of Mormon. Can a Mormon teach their children to analyze assertions critically and still get them to believe in the validity of Smith's seer stones? If so, how?

If you believe that the above analogy does not apply to <insert your religion here>, please explain how.
Yes, they can.

The assumption is made by some that there is no God. If one doesn't assume there is no God, that changes the landscape of your scenario. It's not about one's religion.
You see that is not the assumption at all.
Theists CLAIM that gods exist, atheists reject the claim because theists cannot provide evidence in support of their claim.
There is no assumption presented.
My claim is that the assumption is made by some. I'm not claiming the OP is making that assumption. But yes, in my experience, some do certainly seem to jump to that conclusion, therefore their view is that critical thinking for a theist is rendered void.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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7/18/2016 2:32:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/18/2016 2:01:34 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 7/18/2016 1:22:24 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/18/2016 12:08:03 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 7/16/2016 9:29:12 PM, matt8800 wrote:
Can one raise children to be religious and simultaneously teach them critical thinking skills?

If magic was real, would critical thinking still be relevant? If so, how?

For example, Joseph Smith claimed to have 'seer stones' which he used to translate gold tablets he claimed he found into the Book of Mormon. Can a Mormon teach their children to analyze assertions critically and still get them to believe in the validity of Smith's seer stones? If so, how?

If you believe that the above analogy does not apply to <insert your religion here>, please explain how.

I don't think that the problem is a lack of an ability to think or reason Critically, because there are a great many people who in their professional lives must have the ability to do just that if they wanted to hold down some sort of reasonably well paying Job.

A big part of the problem is that it's not possible for most people to separate an attack on a belief they hold, with an attack on themselves personally; and it ends up that "winning" becomes more important than being interested in obtaining the best, most accurate picture of how reality really works.

Aside from the odd belligerent sociopath here, like Bronoraptor, who likely has one of the worst types of narcissistic personality disorders; and likely a few others who have legitimate issues with personal reasoning skills; most of the people here have reasoning skills but to some point or another end up falling down into that pattern.

It's the source of "the pushback effect", and is actually demonstrated by people on both sides of the argument here.

And...no atheists want to debate bronto... wierdhow that works. Wonder why they are scared? They don't want their worldview challenged. Sociopathy would be going on a forum called "religion", then claiming to not be religious, and finally, attacking religion. Debate me Ram, or is your worldview not quite as secure as you might think?

In a debate, as here, your just going to spout an incoherent stream of verbiage in which truth and reality is more of an obstacle to be avoided, than the goal of the exercise. I'd end up winning, because while most people don't have the psychological training to be able to define what your problem is, it's pretty self evident to everyone who isn't you that you lack even the most intangible of grasps on rational thinking. I won't have been presented with anything difficult, or that I haven't heard a hundred times before, and nothing that I really have to think about.

I'd much prefer to talk with people who disagree with me, but can compose a sentence without doing the discussion forum equivalent of proclaiming themselves the emperor of the universe as they smeared faeces on themselves.

What you have done is called a "dodge" or a "retreat". You know how to challenge people to a debate on here. If you are not here to debate, then are simply a "militant atheist, claiming no religion yet in the religion forum religiously. Yet you refer to others as sociopaths. You may need a reflective surface Ram to take a good, hard look.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
matt8800
Posts: 2,773
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7/18/2016 2:35:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/18/2016 12:08:03 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 7/16/2016 9:29:12 PM, matt8800 wrote:
Can one raise children to be religious and simultaneously teach them critical thinking skills?

If magic was real, would critical thinking still be relevant? If so, how?

For example, Joseph Smith claimed to have 'seer stones' which he used to translate gold tablets he claimed he found into the Book of Mormon. Can a Mormon teach their children to analyze assertions critically and still get them to believe in the validity of Smith's seer stones? If so, how?

If you believe that the above analogy does not apply to <insert your religion here>, please explain how.

I don't think that the problem is a lack of an ability to think or reason Critically, because there are a great many people who in their professional lives must have the ability to do just that if they wanted to hold down some sort of reasonably well paying Job.

If one was a skilled critical thinker, could they still believe in Noahs Ark? How would a critical thinker come to the conclusion that it was a true story?
bulproof
Posts: 36,669
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7/18/2016 2:37:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/18/2016 2:31:52 PM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 7/18/2016 2:26:36 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/18/2016 2:17:13 PM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 7/16/2016 9:29:12 PM, matt8800 wrote:
Can one raise children to be religious and simultaneously teach them critical thinking skills?

If magic was real, would critical thinking still be relevant? If so, how?

For example, Joseph Smith claimed to have 'seer stones' which he used to translate gold tablets he claimed he found into the Book of Mormon. Can a Mormon teach their children to analyze assertions critically and still get them to believe in the validity of Smith's seer stones? If so, how?

If you believe that the above analogy does not apply to <insert your religion here>, please explain how.
Yes, they can.

The assumption is made by some that there is no God. If one doesn't assume there is no God, that changes the landscape of your scenario. It's not about one's religion.
You see that is not the assumption at all.
Theists CLAIM that gods exist, atheists reject the claim because theists cannot provide evidence in support of their claim.
There is no assumption presented.
My claim is that the assumption is made by some. I'm not claiming the OP is making that assumption. But yes, in my experience, some do certainly seem to jump to that conclusion, therefore their view is that critical thinking for a theist is rendered void.
The theist makes the insubstantially presented claim. If I claim that invisible martians are living in your living room do you assume that they aren't or do you reject my claim.
Understand that rejecting a claim is not the same as assuming a position.
matt8800
Posts: 2,773
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7/18/2016 2:41:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/18/2016 2:17:13 PM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 7/16/2016 9:29:12 PM, matt8800 wrote:
Can one raise children to be religious and simultaneously teach them critical thinking skills?

If magic was real, would critical thinking still be relevant? If so, how?

For example, Joseph Smith claimed to have 'seer stones' which he used to translate gold tablets he claimed he found into the Book of Mormon. Can a Mormon teach their children to analyze assertions critically and still get them to believe in the validity of Smith's seer stones? If so, how?

If you believe that the above analogy does not apply to <insert your religion here>, please explain how.
Yes, they can.

The assumption is made by some that there is no God. If one doesn't assume there is no God, that changes the landscape of your scenario. It's not about one's religion.

I'm not talking about a belief in a god; I'm talking specifically about literal beliefs in biblical stories such as Noahs Ark, for example.

Do you think a critical thinker could believe that some guy gathered up two of every species on the planet, put them on his homemade boat for a year and then redistributed them all to their original global locations?
Ramshutu
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7/18/2016 2:43:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/18/2016 2:35:11 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 7/18/2016 12:08:03 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 7/16/2016 9:29:12 PM, matt8800 wrote:
Can one raise children to be religious and simultaneously teach them critical thinking skills?

If magic was real, would critical thinking still be relevant? If so, how?

For example, Joseph Smith claimed to have 'seer stones' which he used to translate gold tablets he claimed he found into the Book of Mormon. Can a Mormon teach their children to analyze assertions critically and still get them to believe in the validity of Smith's seer stones? If so, how?

If you believe that the above analogy does not apply to <insert your religion here>, please explain how.

I don't think that the problem is a lack of an ability to think or reason Critically, because there are a great many people who in their professional lives must have the ability to do just that if they wanted to hold down some sort of reasonably well paying Job.

If one was a skilled critical thinker, could they still believe in Noahs Ark? How would a critical thinker come to the conclusion that it was a true story?

A critical thinker, presented with whether to beleive in Noahs Ark, or not; will not believe in Noahs Ark.

Someone, who has been brought up to believe in Noah's Ark, and Religion, who then becomes a critical thinker, however, will not simply reason that Noah's Ark is wrong and give up whatever beliefs they have; though it is possible and does happen. The reason, is because those beliefs will be central to that person; and it's not that they can't think critically, but that they are prevented from doing so because of the criticality of that belief to that person.
matt8800
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7/18/2016 2:48:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/18/2016 2:43:01 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 7/18/2016 2:35:11 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 7/18/2016 12:08:03 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 7/16/2016 9:29:12 PM, matt8800 wrote:
Can one raise children to be religious and simultaneously teach them critical thinking skills?

If magic was real, would critical thinking still be relevant? If so, how?

For example, Joseph Smith claimed to have 'seer stones' which he used to translate gold tablets he claimed he found into the Book of Mormon. Can a Mormon teach their children to analyze assertions critically and still get them to believe in the validity of Smith's seer stones? If so, how?

If you believe that the above analogy does not apply to <insert your religion here>, please explain how.

I don't think that the problem is a lack of an ability to think or reason Critically, because there are a great many people who in their professional lives must have the ability to do just that if they wanted to hold down some sort of reasonably well paying Job.

If one was a skilled critical thinker, could they still believe in Noahs Ark? How would a critical thinker come to the conclusion that it was a true story?

A critical thinker, presented with whether to beleive in Noahs Ark, or not; will not believe in Noahs Ark.

Someone, who has been brought up to believe in Noah's Ark, and Religion, who then becomes a critical thinker, however, will not simply reason that Noah's Ark is wrong and give up whatever beliefs they have; though it is possible and does happen. The reason, is because those beliefs will be central to that person; and it's not that they can't think critically, but that they are prevented from doing so because of the criticality of that belief to that person.

That's a valid point. As someone who used to be a non-literal Christian, it took me awhile to shake some silly beliefs. With that said, I realized on my own, as a child, that Noah's ark couldn't possibly be true despite what I was taught by the adults in my life at that time.
Ramshutu
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7/18/2016 3:12:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/18/2016 2:32:00 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/18/2016 2:01:34 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 7/18/2016 1:22:24 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/18/2016 12:08:03 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 7/16/2016 9:29:12 PM, matt8800 wrote:
Can one raise children to be religious and simultaneously teach them critical thinking skills?

If magic was real, would critical thinking still be relevant? If so, how?

For example, Joseph Smith claimed to have 'seer stones' which he used to translate gold tablets he claimed he found into the Book of Mormon. Can a Mormon teach their children to analyze assertions critically and still get them to believe in the validity of Smith's seer stones? If so, how?

If you believe that the above analogy does not apply to <insert your religion here>, please explain how.

I don't think that the problem is a lack of an ability to think or reason Critically, because there are a great many people who in their professional lives must have the ability to do just that if they wanted to hold down some sort of reasonably well paying Job.

A big part of the problem is that it's not possible for most people to separate an attack on a belief they hold, with an attack on themselves personally; and it ends up that "winning" becomes more important than being interested in obtaining the best, most accurate picture of how reality really works.

Aside from the odd belligerent sociopath here, like Bronoraptor, who likely has one of the worst types of narcissistic personality disorders; and likely a few others who have legitimate issues with personal reasoning skills; most of the people here have reasoning skills but to some point or another end up falling down into that pattern.

It's the source of "the pushback effect", and is actually demonstrated by people on both sides of the argument here.

And...no atheists want to debate bronto... wierdhow that works. Wonder why they are scared? They don't want their worldview challenged. Sociopathy would be going on a forum called "religion", then claiming to not be religious, and finally, attacking religion. Debate me Ram, or is your worldview not quite as secure as you might think?

In a debate, as here, your just going to spout an incoherent stream of verbiage in which truth and reality is more of an obstacle to be avoided, than the goal of the exercise. I'd end up winning, because while most people don't have the psychological training to be able to define what your problem is, it's pretty self evident to everyone who isn't you that you lack even the most intangible of grasps on rational thinking. I won't have been presented with anything difficult, or that I haven't heard a hundred times before, and nothing that I really have to think about.

I'd much prefer to talk with people who disagree with me, but can compose a sentence without doing the discussion forum equivalent of proclaiming themselves the emperor of the universe as they smeared faeces on themselves.

What you have done is called a "dodge" or a "retreat". You know how to challenge people to a debate on here. If you are not here to debate, then are simply a "militant atheist, claiming no religion yet in the religion forum religiously. Yet you refer to others as sociopaths. You may need a reflective surface Ram to take a good, hard look.

Yeah. Re-read my reply.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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7/18/2016 3:20:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/18/2016 3:12:51 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 7/18/2016 2:32:00 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/18/2016 2:01:34 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 7/18/2016 1:22:24 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/18/2016 12:08:03 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 7/16/2016 9:29:12 PM, matt8800 wrote:
Can one raise children to be religious and simultaneously teach them critical thinking skills?

If magic was real, would critical thinking still be relevant? If so, how?

For example, Joseph Smith claimed to have 'seer stones' which he used to translate gold tablets he claimed he found into the Book of Mormon. Can a Mormon teach their children to analyze assertions critically and still get them to believe in the validity of Smith's seer stones? If so, how?

If you believe that the above analogy does not apply to <insert your religion here>, please explain how.

I don't think that the problem is a lack of an ability to think or reason Critically, because there are a great many people who in their professional lives must have the ability to do just that if they wanted to hold down some sort of reasonably well paying Job.

A big part of the problem is that it's not possible for most people to separate an attack on a belief they hold, with an attack on themselves personally; and it ends up that "winning" becomes more important than being interested in obtaining the best, most accurate picture of how reality really works.

Aside from the odd belligerent sociopath here, like Bronoraptor, who likely has one of the worst types of narcissistic personality disorders; and likely a few others who have legitimate issues with personal reasoning skills; most of the people here have reasoning skills but to some point or another end up falling down into that pattern.

It's the source of "the pushback effect", and is actually demonstrated by people on both sides of the argument here.

And...no atheists want to debate bronto... wierdhow that works. Wonder why they are scared? They don't want their worldview challenged. Sociopathy would be going on a forum called "religion", then claiming to not be religious, and finally, attacking religion. Debate me Ram, or is your worldview not quite as secure as you might think?

In a debate, as here, your just going to spout an incoherent stream of verbiage in which truth and reality is more of an obstacle to be avoided, than the goal of the exercise. I'd end up winning, because while most people don't have the psychological training to be able to define what your problem is, it's pretty self evident to everyone who isn't you that you lack even the most intangible of grasps on rational thinking. I won't have been presented with anything difficult, or that I haven't heard a hundred times before, and nothing that I really have to think about.

I'd much prefer to talk with people who disagree with me, but can compose a sentence without doing the discussion forum equivalent of proclaiming themselves the emperor of the universe as they smeared faeces on themselves.

What you have done is called a "dodge" or a "retreat". You know how to challenge people to a debate on here. If you are not here to debate, then are simply a "militant atheist, claiming no religion yet in the religion forum religiously. Yet you refer to others as sociopaths. You may need a reflective surface Ram to take a good, hard look.

Yeah. Re-read my reply.

You are on a religious site like a mantra yet claim to be "not religious". That's like someone being on a gay site every day but swearing they are straight.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

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Ramshutu
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7/18/2016 3:30:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/18/2016 3:20:53 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/18/2016 3:12:51 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 7/18/2016 2:32:00 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/18/2016 2:01:34 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 7/18/2016 1:22:24 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/18/2016 12:08:03 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 7/16/2016 9:29:12 PM, matt8800 wrote:
Can one raise children to be religious and simultaneously teach them critical thinking skills?

If magic was real, would critical thinking still be relevant? If so, how?

For example, Joseph Smith claimed to have 'seer stones' which he used to translate gold tablets he claimed he found into the Book of Mormon. Can a Mormon teach their children to analyze assertions critically and still get them to believe in the validity of Smith's seer stones? If so, how?

If you believe that the above analogy does not apply to <insert your religion here>, please explain how.

I don't think that the problem is a lack of an ability to think or reason Critically, because there are a great many people who in their professional lives must have the ability to do just that if they wanted to hold down some sort of reasonably well paying Job.

A big part of the problem is that it's not possible for most people to separate an attack on a belief they hold, with an attack on themselves personally; and it ends up that "winning" becomes more important than being interested in obtaining the best, most accurate picture of how reality really works.

Aside from the odd belligerent sociopath here, like Bronoraptor, who likely has one of the worst types of narcissistic personality disorders; and likely a few others who have legitimate issues with personal reasoning skills; most of the people here have reasoning skills but to some point or another end up falling down into that pattern.

It's the source of "the pushback effect", and is actually demonstrated by people on both sides of the argument here.

And...no atheists want to debate bronto... wierdhow that works. Wonder why they are scared? They don't want their worldview challenged. Sociopathy would be going on a forum called "religion", then claiming to not be religious, and finally, attacking religion. Debate me Ram, or is your worldview not quite as secure as you might think?

In a debate, as here, your just going to spout an incoherent stream of verbiage in which truth and reality is more of an obstacle to be avoided, than the goal of the exercise. I'd end up winning, because while most people don't have the psychological training to be able to define what your problem is, it's pretty self evident to everyone who isn't you that you lack even the most intangible of grasps on rational thinking. I won't have been presented with anything difficult, or that I haven't heard a hundred times before, and nothing that I really have to think about.

I'd much prefer to talk with people who disagree with me, but can compose a sentence without doing the discussion forum equivalent of proclaiming themselves the emperor of the universe as they smeared faeces on themselves.

What you have done is called a "dodge" or a "retreat". You know how to challenge people to a debate on here. If you are not here to debate, then are simply a "militant atheist, claiming no religion yet in the religion forum religiously. Yet you refer to others as sociopaths. You may need a reflective surface Ram to take a good, hard look.

Yeah. Re-read my reply.

You are on a religious site like a mantra yet claim to be "not religious". That's like someone being on a gay site every day but swearing they are straight.

Please refer to my original reply.
EtrnlVw
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7/18/2016 3:30:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/18/2016 1:38:45 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 7/18/2016 2:07:58 AM, EtrnlVw wrote:
At 7/16/2016 9:29:12 PM, matt8800 wrote:
Can one raise children to be religious and simultaneously teach them critical thinking skills?

Can one raise a child to be an atheist and simultaneously teach them critical thinking skills lol?? absolutely not, atheism is a mental control, it limits a persons real potential by an infinity. Imagine living your whole life believing a scam that all you can and will ever possess and live within is this little, tiny, suffocating box when in reality you possess something far greater. There is no "critical thinking" in materialism, carnality. There is so much more dynamics and understanding in Theism.
Once again, you're probably confusing atheism with science lol, those are not one and the same. One is a method to explore the natural world, the other a false ideology.

Critical thinking- "the objective analysis and evaluation of an issue in order to form a judgment."

Now suppose you critically thinking atheists come to find out the world is a little larger than you thought and once perceived beyond materialism. How would your ideology and world view permit critical thinking and understanding beyond the material?

If magic was real, would critical thinking still be relevant? If so, how?

Why not? what does this "magic" represent? some how I sense a straw man coming on....

If you believe that the above analogy does not apply to <insert your religion here>, please explain how.

There is nothing in Christianity which restricts or undermines critical thinking,that is wishful thinking on your part.

This is quite true. Almost all the great foundational discoveries of science were accomplished by religious men. Countries that have made the greatest contributions to human scientific advancement have all been deeply religious.

Before the poor reading comprehension dweebs log in, please, I am not saying that religion causes better science or that atheists cannot be good scientists. I am saying that the claim that all religion inhibits critical thinking is obviously false. History disproves it.

And just like anything else, what the religion actually says makes a difference. But the atheist doesn't want all that detail. He wants Christianity lumped in with Pastafarianism for example, so that this bogus claim can appear logical.


Wait a minute, you mean believing in God is not equivalent to believing in Santa?? come on.... leprechauns, fairies...come on Ethan! get with the logic and critical thinking man...

Finally, look at our forum. The atheists here, almost to a man, are besotted with irrational thinking and contradictory beliefs. Critical thinking would perish of loneliness at one of their summer camps.

But it was an entertaining post!

Haha, I don't know why they get to label themselves as the critical thinkers and those of free thought analysis. Someone has pulled the wool over their eyes.
brontoraptor
Posts: 11,685
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7/18/2016 3:45:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/18/2016 3:30:41 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 7/18/2016 3:20:53 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/18/2016 3:12:51 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 7/18/2016 2:32:00 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/18/2016 2:01:34 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 7/18/2016 1:22:24 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/18/2016 12:08:03 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 7/16/2016 9:29:12 PM, matt8800 wrote:
Can one raise children to be religious and simultaneously teach them critical thinking skills?

If magic was real, would critical thinking still be relevant? If so, how?

For example, Joseph Smith claimed to have 'seer stones' which he used to translate gold tablets he claimed he found into the Book of Mormon. Can a Mormon teach their children to analyze assertions critically and still get them to believe in the validity of Smith's seer stones? If so, how?

If you believe that the above analogy does not apply to <insert your religion here>, please explain how.

I don't think that the problem is a lack of an ability to think or reason Critically, because there are a great many people who in their professional lives must have the ability to do just that if they wanted to hold down some sort of reasonably well paying Job.

A big part of the problem is that it's not possible for most people to separate an attack on a belief they hold, with an attack on themselves personally; and it ends up that "winning" becomes more important than being interested in obtaining the best, most accurate picture of how reality really works.

Aside from the odd belligerent sociopath here, like Bronoraptor, who likely has one of the worst types of narcissistic personality disorders; and likely a few others who have legitimate issues with personal reasoning skills; most of the people here have reasoning skills but to some point or another end up falling down into that pattern.

It's the source of "the pushback effect", and is actually demonstrated by people on both sides of the argument here.

And...no atheists want to debate bronto... wierdhow that works. Wonder why they are scared? They don't want their worldview challenged. Sociopathy would be going on a forum called "religion", then claiming to not be religious, and finally, attacking religion. Debate me Ram, or is your worldview not quite as secure as you might think?

In a debate, as here, your just going to spout an incoherent stream of verbiage in which truth and reality is more of an obstacle to be avoided, than the goal of the exercise. I'd end up winning, because while most people don't have the psychological training to be able to define what your problem is, it's pretty self evident to everyone who isn't you that you lack even the most intangible of grasps on rational thinking. I won't have been presented with anything difficult, or that I haven't heard a hundred times before, and nothing that I really have to think about.

I'd much prefer to talk with people who disagree with me, but can compose a sentence without doing the discussion forum equivalent of proclaiming themselves the emperor of the universe as they smeared faeces on themselves.

What you have done is called a "dodge" or a "retreat". You know how to challenge people to a debate on here. If you are not here to debate, then are simply a "militant atheist, claiming no religion yet in the religion forum religiously. Yet you refer to others as sociopaths. You may need a reflective surface Ram to take a good, hard look.

Yeah. Re-read my reply.

You are on a religious site like a mantra yet claim to be "not religious". That's like someone being on a gay site every day but swearing they are straight.

Please refer to my original reply.

You threw the word "sociopath" around Ram. It is you habitually entering the domain of the very thing you claim to hate. I'm not interested in your past posts. If you have no rebuttal to post you are either lazy or simply in reatreat.
"What Donald Trump is doing is representing the absolute heartbreak, and anger, and frustration at a government gone mad."

http://youtu.be...
lightseeker
Posts: 1,189
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7/18/2016 4:07:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/16/2016 9:29:12 PM, matt8800 wrote:
Can one raise children to be religious and simultaneously teach them critical thinking skills?

If magic was real, would critical thinking still be relevant? If so, how?

For example, Joseph Smith claimed to have 'seer stones' which he used to translate gold tablets he claimed he found into the Book of Mormon. Can a Mormon teach their children to analyze assertions critically and still get them to believe in the validity of Smith's seer stones? If so, how?

If you believe that the above analogy does not apply to <insert your religion here>, please explain how.

if that religion also invites people to think and ask every and all question they might have, and logical answers exists for those questions, then the answer to your question, is yes.
Ramshutu
Posts: 5,445
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7/18/2016 4:15:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/18/2016 3:45:45 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/18/2016 3:30:41 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 7/18/2016 3:20:53 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/18/2016 3:12:51 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 7/18/2016 2:32:00 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/18/2016 2:01:34 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 7/18/2016 1:22:24 PM, brontoraptor wrote:
At 7/18/2016 12:08:03 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 7/16/2016 9:29:12 PM, matt8800 wrote:
Can one raise children to be religious and simultaneously teach them critical thinking skills?

If magic was real, would critical thinking still be relevant? If so, how?

For example, Joseph Smith claimed to have 'seer stones' which he used to translate gold tablets he claimed he found into the Book of Mormon. Can a Mormon teach their children to analyze assertions critically and still get them to believe in the validity of Smith's seer stones? If so, how?

If you believe that the above analogy does not apply to <insert your religion here>, please explain how.

I don't think that the problem is a lack of an ability to think or reason Critically, because there are a great many people who in their professional lives must have the ability to do just that if they wanted to hold down some sort of reasonably well paying Job.

A big part of the problem is that it's not possible for most people to separate an attack on a belief they hold, with an attack on themselves personally; and it ends up that "winning" becomes more important than being interested in obtaining the best, most accurate picture of how reality really works.

Aside from the odd belligerent sociopath here, like Bronoraptor, who likely has one of the worst types of narcissistic personality disorders; and likely a few others who have legitimate issues with personal reasoning skills; most of the people here have reasoning skills but to some point or another end up falling down into that pattern.

It's the source of "the pushback effect", and is actually demonstrated by people on both sides of the argument here.

And...no atheists want to debate bronto... wierdhow that works. Wonder why they are scared? They don't want their worldview challenged. Sociopathy would be going on a forum called "religion", then claiming to not be religious, and finally, attacking religion. Debate me Ram, or is your worldview not quite as secure as you might think?

In a debate, as here, your just going to spout an incoherent stream of verbiage in which truth and reality is more of an obstacle to be avoided, than the goal of the exercise. I'd end up winning, because while most people don't have the psychological training to be able to define what your problem is, it's pretty self evident to everyone who isn't you that you lack even the most intangible of grasps on rational thinking. I won't have been presented with anything difficult, or that I haven't heard a hundred times before, and nothing that I really have to think about.

I'd much prefer to talk with people who disagree with me, but can compose a sentence without doing the discussion forum equivalent of proclaiming themselves the emperor of the universe as they smeared faeces on themselves.

What you have done is called a "dodge" or a "retreat". You know how to challenge people to a debate on here. If you are not here to debate, then are simply a "militant atheist, claiming no religion yet in the religion forum religiously. Yet you refer to others as sociopaths. You may need a reflective surface Ram to take a good, hard look.

Yeah. Re-read my reply.

You are on a religious site like a mantra yet claim to be "not religious". That's like someone being on a gay site every day but swearing they are straight.

Please refer to my original reply.

You threw the word "sociopath" around Ram. It is you habitually entering the domain of the very thing you claim to hate. I'm not interested in your past posts. If you have no rebuttal to post you are either lazy or simply in reatreat.

You need to google the word sociopath, in that case; because it seems you don't even understand the charge against you.

If you have any intelligent discussion you want to present, instead of your typical insane drivel about how the particular people you dislike are evil/bad/stupid/wreckless/insane, joined up and justified with incoherent nonsense; I'll be waiting. Now, however it seems you are unable to do anything else other than the "I know you are, but what am I?" defense; it's the type of response I outlined in my original reply; so I'll return you back to that.
Ramshutu
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7/18/2016 4:26:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/18/2016 2:48:26 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 7/18/2016 2:43:01 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 7/18/2016 2:35:11 PM, matt8800 wrote:
At 7/18/2016 12:08:03 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 7/16/2016 9:29:12 PM, matt8800 wrote:
Can one raise children to be religious and simultaneously teach them critical thinking skills?

If magic was real, would critical thinking still be relevant? If so, how?

For example, Joseph Smith claimed to have 'seer stones' which he used to translate gold tablets he claimed he found into the Book of Mormon. Can a Mormon teach their children to analyze assertions critically and still get them to believe in the validity of Smith's seer stones? If so, how?

If you believe that the above analogy does not apply to <insert your religion here>, please explain how.

I don't think that the problem is a lack of an ability to think or reason Critically, because there are a great many people who in their professional lives must have the ability to do just that if they wanted to hold down some sort of reasonably well paying Job.

If one was a skilled critical thinker, could they still believe in Noahs Ark? How would a critical thinker come to the conclusion that it was a true story?

A critical thinker, presented with whether to beleive in Noahs Ark, or not; will not believe in Noahs Ark.

Someone, who has been brought up to believe in Noah's Ark, and Religion, who then becomes a critical thinker, however, will not simply reason that Noah's Ark is wrong and give up whatever beliefs they have; though it is possible and does happen. The reason, is because those beliefs will be central to that person; and it's not that they can't think critically, but that they are prevented from doing so because of the criticality of that belief to that person.

That's a valid point. As someone who used to be a non-literal Christian, it took me awhile to shake some silly beliefs. With that said, I realized on my own, as a child, that Noah's ark couldn't possibly be true despite what I was taught by the adults in my life at that time.

It's actually quite a complicated issue, and I think in most cases it's a combination of things.

As of course, in many cases there is evidence of a pure lack of critical thinking, a shown by "Exhibit A" in this thread; it may not be the case that Exhibit A is as wretchedly stupid as we all think; but could very well be that his beliefs are so tied to his own personal sense of self worth, that it ceases to be about trying to work out what the truth is, but about trying to "win"; as this is the only way for Exhibit A to validate himself.

As in any type of situation where people want to win; sometimes people know they are cheating, not playing by the rules or simply playing unfairly; in scenarios in which we are in now, intellectually this is a suspension of intellectual honesty more than it is critical thinking; as you can see with Exhibit A as a prime example.

In reality, it's not surprising that there are really two types of Creationists, the ignorant ones who are honest, but don't know enough; and the intellectually dishonest ones, who are not ignorant, but deliberately distort and misrepresent the facts so that they can keep believing; the anecdotal evidence I can see fits this: it's not that they don't know the story is wrong; they do, but they chose to argue it is true anyway and as the truth and reality doesn't support their claims, they generally have to resort to misrepresentation and lies in order to do so.

If you look carefully at the rhetorical and argument techniques being used, some very cleverly attempt to hide the fallacy, dishonesty or misrepresentation.
matt8800
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7/18/2016 6:05:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/18/2016 4:07:23 PM, lightseeker wrote:
At 7/16/2016 9:29:12 PM, matt8800 wrote:
Can one raise children to be religious and simultaneously teach them critical thinking skills?

If magic was real, would critical thinking still be relevant? If so, how?

For example, Joseph Smith claimed to have 'seer stones' which he used to translate gold tablets he claimed he found into the Book of Mormon. Can a Mormon teach their children to analyze assertions critically and still get them to believe in the validity of Smith's seer stones? If so, how?

If you believe that the above analogy does not apply to <insert your religion here>, please explain how.

if that religion also invites people to think and ask every and all question they might have, and logical answers exists for those questions, then the answer to your question, is yes.

True but how many religions tell people to just have faith that their book is literally inspired by the god as described in their book without any empirical evidence? Are there any churches that, at minimum, admit they may not be right?

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