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God's Perfectness

ethang5
Posts: 23,687
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12/28/2016 12:45:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/28/2016 11:07:16 AM, tarantula wrote:

People who think god is perfect obviously haven't read the Bible.

Or aren't using your moral code. Either or.

The nerve of those people not using your personal moral code. Dont they know who you are?
bulproof
Posts: 36,669
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12/28/2016 12:47:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/28/2016 12:42:18 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 12/28/2016 11:05:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/28/2016 10:57:54 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 12/28/2016 6:21:18 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/28/2016 5:31:20 AM, ethang5 wrote:

Which is why He refers to Himself as the "I am".

Who says?

His Royal, Omnipotent, Majestic Excellency, King Jesus.
Got any proof?

Lol. You're asking for proof of something believed by billions of people for 6,000 years? Sure i have proof.
Jesus made that claim 6,000yrs ago? Wow have you got any proof?
Your claims are not proof.
PureX
Posts: 4,075
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12/28/2016 1:25:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/28/2016 2:25:40 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/27/2016 1:51:41 PM, PureX wrote:
At 12/27/2016 1:43:56 AM, cameron339 wrote:
Question for theists on God's Perfectness. Theists often claim that their God is perfect. He is the alpha and omega, the absolute, the uncaused cause, the uncreated creator, the epitome of perfection, etc.

Something that is perfect has no flaws, no deficiencies. It is not lacking anything. Therefore it logically follows that he would not need anything. He would not need your praise, worship, glorification, relationship with him, or even a belief in him.

So tell me theists, why do you do all of those things, while proclaiming your God is perfect. It doesn't make any sense. Either you have a perfect God that doesn't need anything, or he does need/expect things from us, but then you are worshipping an imperfect God.

Which is it?

Theism is not about what "God" wants or needs from us, really. It's about what we want and need from "God", and how we think we can get it. Religions then facilitate those desires.

And that is precisely why we invented gods.

Which is not to say that God doesn't exist. Just that our conceptions of God are not likely to be very accurate, as they are based more on what we need than on anything we know about God.
cameron339
Posts: 349
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12/28/2016 4:03:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/28/2016 4:41:55 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 12/28/2016 1:38:02 AM, cameron339 wrote:

No my mother is currently a Christian and indoctrinated me into the faith at a young age. It wasn't until I was at an age of reason and began to think for myself that I became an Atheist.

And at what age did you abandon the God of your parents?

I officially left the faith at 21. But that is gonna vary from person to person. I wouldn't say I abandoned him, but him abandoning me, as he left me no signs of his existence. Please don't tell me I didn't try hard enough either. I'm quite aware of the usual Christian responses as to why I have not found God. Sorry, there is just no evidence for his existence.

I'm sure you have been a Christian your entire life judging by your responses. At least I have tested the waters and would never go back to any religion. You on the other hand have been stuck in a cult your entire life that you can't escape from.

I love my mother but wouldn't say she is perfect. No human is perfect.


My mother was perfect in my eyes, but unlike yourself I did not search any imperfections.

My mother was perfect in my eyes as well. I did not seek out imperfections, but recognize that all humans have flaws. Once again no one is perfect.


But in your case you stated your mother was perfect. I feel a perfect mother or God would not need or expect their child to worship them. That is narcissism.


I did not say that I worshiped my mother, but that I worshiped the ground that she walked on, something that only an idiot would take literally.

Okay, if you're equating God with your mother to make your analogy. You said that it was not intended to be taken literally, but metaphorically. If that is the case, is worship of God supposed to be taken metaphorically as well? If so, then why are you worshipping, if it is not supposed to be taken literally. Your analogy fails, if worship in one context is supposed to be metaphoric and in another context it is supposed to be taken literally. Which is it? You Christians love to muddy the waters, hence why you have approximately 40,000 different denominations worldwide.

If you were perfect would you expect anyone to worship you?


No, but I did expected my children to obey and respect me, their father, who did all in my power to earn their respect.

I expect my child to obey and respect me as well. But if she doesn't I'm not going to throw her in an eternal furnace. That would be the "Christian" thing to do. You have a God that your supposed to love and fear at the same time. I would never expect my child to fear me.

I as a parent would never expect my child to worship me, that is delusional thinking. But apparently that is perfectly okay in your worldview.


You neither know me or the world view that I hold, Oh little godless one.

But would you expect your children to spit in your face, to steal from you, and treat you like a pile of shytt as the atheists do to the believers on this forum? What are the rules that you expect them to live by? Or do the godless have no rule by which to live?

No I wouldn't expect my child to spit in my face, to steal from me, or treat me like a pile of sh*t. That is what disciplining is for. Parenting 101. According to the Bible though if your child misbehaves or acts unruly, you can take them out to the edge of town and stone them to death. Surely you don't find that as an acceptable form of discipline, do you?
ethang5
Posts: 23,687
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12/28/2016 4:13:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/28/2016 12:47:16 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/28/2016 12:42:18 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 12/28/2016 11:05:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/28/2016 10:57:54 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 12/28/2016 6:21:18 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/28/2016 5:31:20 AM, ethang5 wrote:

Which is why He refers to Himself as the "I am".

Who says?

His Royal, Omnipotent, Majestic Excellency, King Jesus.
Got any proof?

Lol. You're asking for proof of something's believed by billions of people for 6,000 years? Sure i have proof.

Jesus made that claim 6,000yrs ago? Wow have you got any proof?

You already asked me that and I said sure.

Your claims are not proof.

I didn't say they were.
missmedic
Posts: 764
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12/28/2016 4:50:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/28/2016 12:42:18 PM, ethang5 wrote:
Lol. You're asking for proof of something believed by billions of people for 6,000 years? Sure i have proof.

Beliefs and faiths do not establish "truths" or facts. It does not matter how many people believe or for how many centuries they have believed it. It does not matter how reverent or important people think of them, if it does not agree with evidence, then it simply cannot have any validity to the outside world. All things we know about the world, we can express without referring to a belief. Even at its most benign level, beliefs can act as barriers to further understanding.
cameron339
Posts: 349
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12/28/2016 5:00:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/28/2016 5:09:59 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 12/27/2016 1:43:56 AM, cameron339 wrote:
Question for theists on God's Perfectness. Theists often claim that their God is perfect. He is the alpha and omega, the absolute, the uncaused cause, the uncreated creator, the epitome of perfection, etc.

Something that is perfect has no flaws, no deficiencies. It is not lacking anything. Therefore it logically follows that he would not need anything. He would not need your praise, worship, glorification, relationship with him, or even a belief in him.

Ok. So?

So tell me theists, why do you do all of those things, while proclaiming your God is perfect.

For the same reasons we eat, sleep, and love. Do you love anyone? No? Then no wonder.

Eating and sleeping are biological impulses required for our survival. Love is just an emotion. Yes, I love many people. Especially my daughter and wife. But they have demonstrated that they exist. Not quite sure what this has to do with my original question, elaborate pease?

It doesn't make any sense. Either you have a perfect God that doesn't need anything, or he does need/expect things from us, but then you are worshipping an imperfect God.

So your big brain came up with the conclusion that whatever we do for God must be a need of God? And then you somehow made that bit of poor thinking into an iron-iron-clad fact and were off to the assumption races?

Yes everything you do for God must be a need of his because if it's not, then it is not necessary and a waste of time. He might not want you to do any of those things (worship, praise, glorify, etc.) You're just assuming that he likes/wants these things. Surely he needs some of these things if you think he wants a relationship with him.
Which is it?

The option that makes sense..... the one you conveniently left out of your bogus options. God does not need our praise, worship, or love. We choose to praise, worship, and love Him because it is right and natural for His children to do.

Oh, so you think you can just "flatter" your way into heaven by showing God how much of an obedient slave you are. Sorry, I would never expect my child to worship me. Worship is an egotistical, narcissistic, primitive form of behavior.

Your assumption looks kinda silly now doesn't it?

Your assumption makes you look like a good little obedient slave and your God an egomaniacal d*ck.
loveymore
Posts: 130
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12/29/2016 11:20:59 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
You probably know of the story of the flood and of the task Noe has been given.

Why did God decided to keep him, his family etc. in spite of those others?
Gentorev
Posts: 5,981
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12/29/2016 12:27:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/28/2016 4:03:32 PM, cameron339 wrote:
At 12/28/2016 4:41:55 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 12/28/2016 1:38:02 AM, cameron339 wrote:

No my mother is currently a Christian and indoctrinated me into the faith at a young age. It wasn't until I was at an age of reason and began to think for myself that I became an Atheist.

And at what age did you abandon the God of your parents?

I officially left the faith at 21. But that is gonna vary from person to person. I wouldn't say I abandoned him, but him abandoning me, as he left me no signs of his existence. Please don't tell me I didn't try hard enough either. I'm quite aware of the usual Christian responses as to why I have not found God. Sorry, there is just no evidence for his existence.

I'm sure you have been a Christian your entire life judging by your responses. At least I have tested the waters and would never go back to any religion. You on the other hand have been stuck in a cult your entire life that you can't escape from.

I love my mother but wouldn't say she is perfect. No human is perfect.


My mother was perfect in my eyes, but unlike yourself I did not search any imperfections.

My mother was perfect in my eyes as well. I did not seek out imperfections, but recognize that all humans have flaws. Once again no one is perfect.


But in your case you stated your mother was perfect. I feel a perfect mother or God would not need or expect their child to worship them. That is narcissism.


I did not say that I worshiped my mother, but that I worshiped the ground that she walked on, something that only an idiot would take literally.

Okay, if you're equating God with your mother to make your analogy. You said that it was not intended to be taken literally, but metaphorically. If that is the case, is worship of God supposed to be taken metaphorically as well? If so, then why are you worshipping, if it is not supposed to be taken literally. Your analogy fails, if worship in one context is supposed to be metaphoric and in another context it is supposed to be taken literally. Which is it? You Christians love to muddy the waters, hence why you have approximately 40,000 different denominations worldwide.

If you were perfect would you expect anyone to worship you?


No, but I did expected my children to obey and respect me, their father, who did all in my power to earn their respect.

I expect my child to obey and respect me as well. But if she doesn't I'm not going to throw her in an eternal furnace. That would be the "Christian" thing to do. You have a God that your supposed to love and fear at the same time. I would never expect my child to fear me.

I as a parent would never expect my child to worship me, that is delusional thinking. But apparently that is perfectly okay in your worldview.


You neither know me or the world view that I hold, Oh little godless one.

But would you expect your children to spit in your face, to steal from you, and treat you like a pile of shytt as the atheists do to the believers on this forum? What are the rules that you expect them to live by? Or do the godless have no rule by which to live?

No I wouldn't expect my child to spit in my face, to steal from me, or treat me like a pile of sh*t. That is what disciplining is for. Parenting 101. According to the Bible though if your child misbehaves or acts unruly, you can take them out to the edge of town and stone them to death. Surely you don't find that as an acceptable form of discipline, do you?

And how many of your Christian neighbours, who live in your suburb have you seen dragging their little children out into the streets and stoning them to death?

Have you got a napkin there to wipe the shytt that's dribbling down your chin, you godless, brainless, accusing ,xqyxxz, I can't use the appropriate word to describe the filthy mind that is you.
bulproof
Posts: 36,669
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12/29/2016 12:38:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/29/2016 11:20:59 AM, loveymore wrote:
You probably know of the story of the flood and of the task Noe has been given.

Why did God decided to keep him, his family etc. in spite of those others?
It's a fantasy.
bulproof
Posts: 36,669
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12/29/2016 12:48:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/29/2016 12:27:18 PM, Gentorev wrote:
At 12/28/2016 4:03:32 PM, cameron339 wrote:
At 12/28/2016 4:41:55 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 12/28/2016 1:38:02 AM, cameron339 wrote:

No my mother is currently a Christian and indoctrinated me into the faith at a young age. It wasn't until I was at an age of reason and began to think for myself that I became an Atheist.

And at what age did you abandon the God of your parents?

I officially left the faith at 21. But that is gonna vary from person to person. I wouldn't say I abandoned him, but him abandoning me, as he left me no signs of his existence. Please don't tell me I didn't try hard enough either. I'm quite aware of the usual Christian responses as to why I have not found God. Sorry, there is just no evidence for his existence.

I'm sure you have been a Christian your entire life judging by your responses. At least I have tested the waters and would never go back to any religion. You on the other hand have been stuck in a cult your entire life that you can't escape from.

I love my mother but wouldn't say she is perfect. No human is perfect.


My mother was perfect in my eyes, but unlike yourself I did not search any imperfections.

My mother was perfect in my eyes as well. I did not seek out imperfections, but recognize that all humans have flaws. Once again no one is perfect.


But in your case you stated your mother was perfect. I feel a perfect mother or God would not need or expect their child to worship them. That is narcissism.


I did not say that I worshiped my mother, but that I worshiped the ground that she walked on, something that only an idiot would take literally.

Okay, if you're equating God with your mother to make your analogy. You said that it was not intended to be taken literally, but metaphorically. If that is the case, is worship of God supposed to be taken metaphorically as well? If so, then why are you worshipping, if it is not supposed to be taken literally. Your analogy fails, if worship in one context is supposed to be metaphoric and in another context it is supposed to be taken literally. Which is it? You Christians love to muddy the waters, hence why you have approximately 40,000 different denominations worldwide.

If you were perfect would you expect anyone to worship you?


No, but I did expected my children to obey and respect me, their father, who did all in my power to earn their respect.

I expect my child to obey and respect me as well. But if she doesn't I'm not going to throw her in an eternal furnace. That would be the "Christian" thing to do. You have a God that your supposed to love and fear at the same time. I would never expect my child to fear me.

I as a parent would never expect my child to worship me, that is delusional thinking. But apparently that is perfectly okay in your worldview.


You neither know me or the world view that I hold, Oh little godless one.

But would you expect your children to spit in your face, to steal from you, and treat you like a pile of shytt as the atheists do to the believers on this forum? What are the rules that you expect them to live by? Or do the godless have no rule by which to live?

No I wouldn't expect my child to spit in my face, to steal from me, or treat me like a pile of sh*t. That is what disciplining is for. Parenting 101. According to the Bible though if your child misbehaves or acts unruly, you can take them out to the edge of town and stone them to death. Surely you don't find that as an acceptable form of discipline, do you?

And how many of your Christian neighbours, who live in your suburb have you seen dragging their little children out into the streets and stoning them to death?

Have you got a napkin there to wipe the shytt that's dribbling down your chin, you godless, brainless, accusing ,xqyxxz, I can't use the appropriate word to describe the filthy mind that is you.
The guy who exposes the obscenity of your god's morality has a filthy mind?
bwuahahahahaha
You poor godists are incapable of being decent human beings, you poor things.
loveymore
Posts: 130
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12/29/2016 12:57:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/29/2016 12:38:47 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/29/2016 11:20:59 AM, loveymore wrote:
You probably know of the story of the flood and of the task Noe has been given.

Why did God decided to keep him, his family etc. in spite of those others?
It's a fantasy.

Not for believers
bulproof
Posts: 36,669
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12/29/2016 1:08:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/29/2016 12:57:23 PM, loveymore wrote:
At 12/29/2016 12:38:47 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/29/2016 11:20:59 AM, loveymore wrote:
You probably know of the story of the flood and of the task Noe has been given.

Why did God decided to keep him, his family etc. in spite of those others?
It's a fantasy.

Not for believers
It's a fantasy that believers believe, just as the tooth fairy is a fantasy that young children believe.
There never was a world wide flood, learn the truth.
loveymore
Posts: 130
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12/29/2016 1:22:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/29/2016 1:08:52 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/29/2016 12:57:23 PM, loveymore wrote:
At 12/29/2016 12:38:47 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/29/2016 11:20:59 AM, loveymore wrote:
You probably know of the story of the flood and of the task Noe has been given.

Why did God decided to keep him, his family etc. in spite of those others?
It's a fantasy.

Not for believers
It's a fantasy that believers believe, just as the tooth fairy is a fantasy that young children believe.
There never was a world wide flood, learn the truth.

God's word is the truth, not what the world has to offer.
cameron339
Posts: 349
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12/29/2016 2:46:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/29/2016 12:27:18 PM, Gentorev wrote:
At 12/28/2016 4:03:32 PM, cameron339 wrote:
At 12/28/2016 4:41:55 AM, Gentorev wrote:
At 12/28/2016 1:38:02 AM, cameron339 wrote:

No my mother is currently a Christian and indoctrinated me into the faith at a young age. It wasn't until I was at an age of reason and began to think for myself that I became an Atheist.

And at what age did you abandon the God of your parents?

I officially left the faith at 21. But that is gonna vary from person to person. I wouldn't say I abandoned him, but him abandoning me, as he left me no signs of his existence. Please don't tell me I didn't try hard enough either. I'm quite aware of the usual Christian responses as to why I have not found God. Sorry, there is just no evidence for his existence.

I'm sure you have been a Christian your entire life judging by your responses. At least I have tested the waters and would never go back to any religion. You on the other hand have been stuck in a cult your entire life that you can't escape from.

I love my mother but wouldn't say she is perfect. No human is perfect.


My mother was perfect in my eyes, but unlike yourself I did not search any imperfections.

My mother was perfect in my eyes as well. I did not seek out imperfections, but recognize that all humans have flaws. Once again no one is perfect.


But in your case you stated your mother was perfect. I feel a perfect mother or God would not need or expect their child to worship them. That is narcissism.


I did not say that I worshiped my mother, but that I worshiped the ground that she walked on, something that only an idiot would take literally.

Okay, if you're equating God with your mother to make your analogy. You said that it was not intended to be taken literally, but metaphorically. If that is the case, is worship of God supposed to be taken metaphorically as well? If so, then why are you worshipping, if it is not supposed to be taken literally. Your analogy fails, if worship in one context is supposed to be metaphoric and in another context it is supposed to be taken literally. Which is it? You Christians love to muddy the waters, hence why you have approximately 40,000 different denominations worldwide.

If you were perfect would you expect anyone to worship you?


No, but I did expected my children to obey and respect me, their father, who did all in my power to earn their respect.

I expect my child to obey and respect me as well. But if she doesn't I'm not going to throw her in an eternal furnace. That would be the "Christian" thing to do. You have a God that your supposed to love and fear at the same time. I would never expect my child to fear me.

I as a parent would never expect my child to worship me, that is delusional thinking. But apparently that is perfectly okay in your worldview.


You neither know me or the world view that I hold, Oh little godless one.

But would you expect your children to spit in your face, to steal from you, and treat you like a pile of shytt as the atheists do to the believers on this forum? What are the rules that you expect them to live by? Or do the godless have no rule by which to live?

No I wouldn't expect my child to spit in my face, to steal from me, or treat me like a pile of sh*t. That is what disciplining is for. Parenting 101. According to the Bible though if your child misbehaves or acts unruly, you can take them out to the edge of town and stone them to death. Surely you don't find that as an acceptable form of discipline, do you?

And how many of your Christian neighbours, who live in your suburb have you seen dragging their little children out into the streets and stoning them to death?

Exactly my point, Christians don't get their morality from the Bible. Because if they did, you would see them stoning their unruly children to death. Or in the case of babies, bashing their heads and against rocks (Yes, both of those things are mentioned in the Bible). Sorry, but it is you that has a filthy mind, due to the fact that you follow a book that advocates such horrible things.
Have you got a napkin there to wipe the shytt that's dribbling down your chin, you godless, brainless, accusing ,xqyxxz, I can't use the appropriate word to describe the filthy mind that is you.
bulproof
Posts: 36,669
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12/29/2016 3:11:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/29/2016 1:22:07 PM, loveymore wrote:
At 12/29/2016 1:08:52 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/29/2016 12:57:23 PM, loveymore wrote:
At 12/29/2016 12:38:47 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/29/2016 11:20:59 AM, loveymore wrote:
You probably know of the story of the flood and of the task Noe has been given.

Why did God decided to keep him, his family etc. in spite of those others?
It's a fantasy.

Not for believers
It's a fantasy that believers believe, just as the tooth fairy is a fantasy that young children believe.
There never was a world wide flood, learn the truth.

God's word is the truth, not what the world has to offer.
Where is god's word and who says it is.
loveymore
Posts: 130
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12/29/2016 5:03:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/29/2016 3:11:40 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/29/2016 1:22:07 PM, loveymore wrote:
At 12/29/2016 1:08:52 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/29/2016 12:57:23 PM, loveymore wrote:
At 12/29/2016 12:38:47 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/29/2016 11:20:59 AM, loveymore wrote:
You probably know of the story of the flood and of the task Noe has been given.

Why did God decided to keep him, his family etc. in spite of those others?
It's a fantasy.

Not for believers
It's a fantasy that believers believe, just as the tooth fairy is a fantasy that young children believe.
There never was a world wide flood, learn the truth.

God's word is the truth, not what the world has to offer.
Where is god's word and who says it is.

In case you want to know, which I think everyone should know of, it might also work for you:

Ephesians 4:21
Assuming that you have heard about him and were taught for him, as the truth is in Jesus.

1 Corinthians 2:14 ESV
The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
bulproof
Posts: 36,669
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12/29/2016 5:17:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/29/2016 5:03:36 PM, loveymore wrote:
At 12/29/2016 3:11:40 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/29/2016 1:22:07 PM, loveymore wrote:
At 12/29/2016 1:08:52 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/29/2016 12:57:23 PM, loveymore wrote:
At 12/29/2016 12:38:47 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/29/2016 11:20:59 AM, loveymore wrote:
You probably know of the story of the flood and of the task Noe has been given.

Why did God decided to keep him, his family etc. in spite of those others?
It's a fantasy.

Not for believers
It's a fantasy that believers believe, just as the tooth fairy is a fantasy that young children believe.
There never was a world wide flood, learn the truth.

God's word is the truth, not what the world has to offer.
Where is god's word and who says it is.

In case you want to know, which I think everyone should know of, it might also work for you:
Where is god's word and who says it is.

Ephesians 4:21
Assuming that you have heard about him and were taught for him, as the truth is in Jesus.

1 Corinthians 2:14 ESV
The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
eyestosee
Posts: 267
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12/29/2016 5:39:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/27/2016 1:43:56 AM, cameron339 wrote:
Question for theists on God's Perfectness. Theists often claim that their God is perfect. He is the alpha and omega, the absolute, the uncaused cause, the uncreated creator, the epitome of perfection, etc.

Something that is perfect has no flaws, no deficiencies. It is not lacking anything. Therefore it logically follows that he would not need anything. He would not need your praise, worship, glorification, relationship with him, or even a belief in him.

So tell me theists, why do you do all of those things, while proclaiming your God is perfect. It doesn't make any sense. Either you have a perfect God that doesn't need anything, or he does need/expect things from us, but then you are worshipping an imperfect God.

Which is it?

This is a great question I have never considered before! It also seems to pose an ethical dilemma for theists. Let me attempt to answer the question with the first thought that came to mind and please correct me if it does not seem logical.

Perfectness is relative. For example. If I found somebody that agreed with me 100% of the time and we never EVER disagreed on anything, EVER, then that person would literally be perfect to me in all sense of the word. The only thing that would not make them perfect would be mortality, or the factor that their body is perishable.

Their mind is perfect because it is completely in line to the will of mine, however their body is not perfect because it is mortal.

What God offers in terms of perfection are two things:

1. An immortal existence, so a perfect being, He cannot be killed, physically injured, ext.

2. A perfect mind. What this means is that his mind, his will, his desires and thoughts, are the moral ground for the entire universe. Whether they are right or wrong, perfection is relevant, and his will is the standard to which perfection is judged.

To answer your question more specifically now, this would mean that if he feels the need to be loved or worshiped (which I actually don't think he does), than that would now be the moral grounds to which perfection is based off of.

Does this make any sense, answer your question, or at the very least pose a logical counter argument to your point?
cameron339
Posts: 349
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12/29/2016 7:00:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/29/2016 5:39:27 PM, eyestosee wrote:
At 12/27/2016 1:43:56 AM, cameron339 wrote:
Question for theists on God's Perfectness. Theists often claim that their God is perfect. He is the alpha and omega, the absolute, the uncaused cause, the uncreated creator, the epitome of perfection, etc.

Something that is perfect has no flaws, no deficiencies. It is not lacking anything. Therefore it logically follows that he would not need anything. He would not need your praise, worship, glorification, relationship with him, or even a belief in him.

So tell me theists, why do you do all of those things, while proclaiming your God is perfect. It doesn't make any sense. Either you have a perfect God that doesn't need anything, or he does need/expect things from us, but then you are worshipping an imperfect God.

Which is it?

This is a great question I have never considered before! It also seems to pose an ethical dilemma for theists. Let me attempt to answer the question with the first thought that came to mind and please correct me if it does not seem logical.

Perfectness is relative. For example. If I found somebody that agreed with me 100% of the time and we never EVER disagreed on anything, EVER, then that person would literally be perfect to me in all sense of the word. The only thing that would not make them perfect would be mortality, or the factor that their body is perishable.

Their mind is perfect because it is completely in line to the will of mine, however their body is not perfect because it is mortal.

What God offers in terms of perfection are two things:

1. An immortal existence, so a perfect being, He cannot be killed, physically injured, ext.

2. A perfect mind. What this means is that his mind, his will, his desires and thoughts, are the moral ground for the entire universe. Whether they are right or wrong, perfection is relevant, and his will is the standard to which perfection is judged.

To answer your question more specifically now, this would mean that if he feels the need to be loved or worshiped (which I actually don't think he does), than that would now be the moral grounds to which perfection is based off of.

Does this make any sense, answer your question, or at the very least pose a logical counter argument to your point?

I don't know what theists are specifically referring to (his will, mind, mortality,desires, etc.) when they talk about God's perfection. So I am just referring to his "nature" in general to make my case.

If his nature is perfect in and of itself, then it has no flaws or deficiencies. This would mean he would not need anything external or apart from himself to sustain himself. As Christians would say, he is not contingent upon anything. Therefore to say we NEED to worship him, pray to him, praise him, glorify him, belief in him, etc. would be a contradiction. It is not needed by him, therefore a waste of time and effort. Also if everything happens according to God's divine plan, stop trying to subvert it with your worship, praise, glory, prayer, belief, rituals, etc. It will not work and is also a waste of time.

But I am an Atheist, so I'm not going to pretend to try to understand how Theists justify this stuff to themselves. I can only pull out contradictions, fallacies, errors, from the stuff they present me.
eyestosee
Posts: 267
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12/29/2016 11:20:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/29/2016 7:00:06 PM, cameron339 wrote:
At 12/29/2016 5:39:27 PM, eyestosee wrote:
At 12/27/2016 1:43:56 AM, cameron339 wrote:
Question for theists on God's Perfectness. Theists often claim that their God is perfect. He is the alpha and omega, the absolute, the uncaused cause, the uncreated creator, the epitome of perfection, etc.

Something that is perfect has no flaws, no deficiencies. It is not lacking anything. Therefore it logically follows that he would not need anything. He would not need your praise, worship, glorification, relationship with him, or even a belief in him.

So tell me theists, why do you do all of those things, while proclaiming your God is perfect. It doesn't make any sense. Either you have a perfect God that doesn't need anything, or he does need/expect things from us, but then you are worshipping an imperfect God.

Which is it?

This is a great question I have never considered before! It also seems to pose an ethical dilemma for theists. Let me attempt to answer the question with the first thought that came to mind and please correct me if it does not seem logical.

Perfectness is relative. For example. If I found somebody that agreed with me 100% of the time and we never EVER disagreed on anything, EVER, then that person would literally be perfect to me in all sense of the word. The only thing that would not make them perfect would be mortality, or the factor that their body is perishable.

Their mind is perfect because it is completely in line to the will of mine, however their body is not perfect because it is mortal.

What God offers in terms of perfection are two things:

1. An immortal existence, so a perfect being, He cannot be killed, physically injured, ext.

2. A perfect mind. What this means is that his mind, his will, his desires and thoughts, are the moral ground for the entire universe. Whether they are right or wrong, perfection is relevant, and his will is the standard to which perfection is judged.

To answer your question more specifically now, this would mean that if he feels the need to be loved or worshiped (which I actually don't think he does), than that would now be the moral grounds to which perfection is based off of.

Does this make any sense, answer your question, or at the very least pose a logical counter argument to your point?

I don't know what theists are specifically referring to (his will, mind, mortality,desires, etc.) when they talk about God's perfection. So I am just referring to his "nature" in general to make my case.

If his nature is perfect in and of itself, then it has no flaws or deficiencies. This would mean he would not need anything external or apart from himself to sustain himself. As Christians would say, he is not contingent upon anything. Therefore to say we NEED to worship him, pray to him, praise him, glorify him, belief in him, etc. would be a contradiction. It is not needed by him, therefore a waste of time and effort. Also if everything happens according to God's divine plan, stop trying to subvert it with your worship, praise, glory, prayer, belief, rituals, etc. It will not work and is also a waste of time.

But I am an Atheist, so I'm not going to pretend to try to understand how Theists justify this stuff to themselves. I can only pull out contradictions, fallacies, errors, from the stuff they present me.

Ok good point!

What about this line of thinking however, maybe God doesn't need any of that stuff because he is perfect, maybe WE need it to learn how to develop a relationship with him that leads to our own spiritual development and growth?
ethang5
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12/30/2016 3:42:40 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/28/2016 5:00:54 PM, cameron339 wrote:
At 12/28/2016 5:09:59 AM, ethang5 wrote:

Question for theists on God's Perfectness. Theists often claim that their God is perfect. He is the alpha and omega, the absolute, the uncaused cause, the uncreated creator, the epitome of perfection, etc.

Something that is perfect has no flaws, no deficiencies. It is not lacking anything. Therefore it logically follows that he would not need anything. He would not need your praise, worship, glorification, relationship with him, or even a belief in him.

Ok. So?

So tell me theists, why do you do all of those things, while proclaiming your God is perfect.

For the same reasons we eat, sleep, and love. Do you love anyone? No? Then no wonder.

Eating and sleeping are biological impulses required for our survival.

Yes. Note how the atheist is either too stupid or too obtuse to make the connection.

Love is just an emotion. Yes, I love many people. Especially my daughter and wife. But they have demonstrated that they exist.

God has too. Would your wife cease to exist if I refused to admit she existed?

Not quite sure what this has to do with my original question, elaborate pease?

Your idea that whatever we do for God means God needs that thing is stupid beyond belief. So we know you're trolling and thus, treated you like a troll.

It doesn't make any sense. Either you have a perfect God that doesn't need anything, or he does need/expect things from us, but then you are worshipping an imperfect God.

So your big brain came up with the conclusion that whatever we do for God must be a need of God? And then you somehow made that bit of poor thinking into an iron-iron-clad fact and were off to the assumption races?

Yes everything you do for God must be a need of his because if it's not, then it is not necessary and a waste of time.

This bit of stupidity is so self defeating, it will flush itself. No comment needed here.

He might not want you to do any of those things (worship, praise, glorify, etc.)

Not the point. We want it.

You're just assuming that he likes/wants these things.

Actually no. God wants these things because the are good for me, and He loves me. Just as I want my children to obey me, not because I need their obedience, but because THEY need it to keep safe and happy. But some trolling moron could always accuse me of being a megalomaniac because I require my daughters to obey me, and that I NEED their obedience.

Surely he needs some of these things if you think he wants a relationship with him.

Are you guessing? Sorry dude, I can only treat your stupidity with a certain amount of seriousness.

Which is it?

The option that makes sense..... the one you conveniently left out of your bogus options. God does not need our praise, worship, or love. We choose to praise, worship, and love Him because it is right and natural for His children to do.

Oh, so you think you can just "flatter" your way into heaven by showing God how much of an obedient slave you are.

Why do moron atheist always think they can win a debate with stupidity? Is that what works with their base? Exactly how stupid do these idiots think you Gentle Readers are?

Sorry, I would never expect my child to worship me.

Idiots hardly ever expect worship, and never deserve it. And thankfully, you aren't God. I know this because I know God isn't an idiot.

Worship is an egotistical, narcissistic, primitive form of behavior.

Yet another atheist idiot who cannot tell the difference between his thoughts and reality. His pronouncements aren't opinion, they're law!

Your assumption looks kinda silly now doesn't it?

Your assumption makes you look like a good little obedient slave

Thank you. I know I'm aiming high when I shoot for Slave of King Jesus Christ, but He just inspires greatness in me.

...... and your God an egomaniacal d*ck.

Yeah, you seem perfect next to Him.
ethang5
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12/30/2016 4:08:00 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/28/2016 4:50:06 PM, missmedic wrote:
At 12/28/2016 12:42:18 PM, ethang5 wrote:

Lol. You're asking for proof of something believed by billions of people for 6,000 years? Sure i have proof.

Beliefs and faiths do not establish "truths" or facts.

No one said they did. But it's always funny when the atheist's need to be obtuse forces him to ask for what almost everyone else knows is obvious.

It does not matter how many people believe or for how many centuries they have believed it.

It does not matter to what? Because it does matter to some things.

It does not matter how reverent or important people think of them, if it does not agree with evidence, then it simply cannot have any validity to the outside world.

What exactly are you ranting about? Have you posted to the wrong person, or have you let yourself run off with yet another assumption you've confused for fact?

All things we know about the world, we can express without referring to a belief.

Really? Can you support this? Wait, what am I saying? You're an atheist, of course you can't support this.

Even at its most benign level, beliefs can act as barriers to further understanding.

Where you have already arrived right? Further understanding. And all with no beliefs. Impressive.

I would debunk you MM, but I know it would be pointless, and would derail the thread. You rest in your advanced understanding, and I'll keep not saying the things you're ranting about. Deal?
cameron339
Posts: 349
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12/30/2016 5:25:35 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/30/2016 3:42:40 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 12/28/2016 5:00:54 PM, cameron339 wrote:
At 12/28/2016 5:09:59 AM, ethang5 wrote:

Question for theists on God's Perfectness. Theists often claim that their God is perfect. He is the alpha and omega, the absolute, the uncaused cause, the uncreated creator, the epitome of perfection, etc.

Something that is perfect has no flaws, no deficiencies. It is not lacking anything. Therefore it logically follows that he would not need anything. He would not need your praise, worship, glorification, relationship with him, or even a belief in him.

Ok. So?

So tell me theists, why do you do all of those things, while proclaiming your God is perfect.

For the same reasons we eat, sleep, and love. Do you love anyone? No? Then no wonder.

Eating and sleeping are biological impulses required for our survival.

Yes. Note how the atheist is either too stupid or too obtuse to make the connection.

Oh, so now worship, prayer, praise, rituals, etc. are required for survival if your a Christian? Sounds like a miserable existence.

Love is just an emotion. Yes, I love many people. Especially my daughter and wife. But they have demonstrated that they exist.

God has too. Would your wife cease to exist if I refused to admit she existed?

Really, God has demonstrated that he exists? Where is this Yahweh Yahoo at? I have not been able to find him neither has science. Oh that's right, he only exists in your head as a deluded concept, just like worship is!

Not quite sure what this has to do with my original question, elaborate pease?

Your idea that whatever we do for God means God needs that thing is stupid beyond belief. So we know you're trolling and thus, treated you like a troll.

It's stupid beyond d belief? If he does not need it, why are you f*cking doing it then you religious moron? How many other meaningless activities do you waste your time on throughout your life, seems like quite a bit.

It doesn't make any sense. Either you have a perfect God that doesn't need anything, or he does need/expect things from us, but then you are worshipping an imperfect God.

So your big brain came up with the conclusion that whatever we do for God must be a need of God? And then you somehow made that bit of poor thinking into an iron-iron-clad fact and were off to the assumption races?

Yes everything you do for God must be a need of his because if it's not, then it is not necessary and a waste of time.

This bit of stupidity is so self defeating, it will flush itself. No comment needed here.

He might not want you to do any of those things (worship, praise, glorify, etc.)

Not the point. We want it.

You want it? LOL! So you want prayer, worship, praise, rituals, glorification, etc. Talk about an egomaniac who likes to stroke their ego.

You're just assuming that he likes/wants these things.

Actually no. God wants these things because the are good for me, and He loves me.

How do you know he loves you? If I was God, I would send you straight to Hell where you belong. Luck for you, Hell doesn't exist neither does Heaven. But Heaven is just as much of an abomination as Hell is, so it doesn't really matter.

Just as I want my children to obey me, not because I need their obedience, but because THEY need it to keep safe and happy. But some trolling moron could always accuse me of being a megalomaniac because I require my daughters to obey me, and that I NEED their obedience.

Yes children should obey their parents, but not an imaginary sky daddy.

Surely he needs some of these things if you think he wants a relationship with him.

Are you guessing? Sorry dude, I can only treat your stupidity with a certain amount of seriousness.

Which is it?

The option that makes sense..... the one you conveniently left out of your bogus options. God does not need our praise, worship, or love. We choose to praise, worship, and love Him because it is right and natural for His children to do.

Oh, so you think you can just "flatter" your way into heaven by showing God how much of an obedient slave you are.

Why do moron atheist always think they can win a debate with stupidity? Is that what works with their base? Exactly how stupid do these idiots think you Gentle Readers are?

Sorry, I would never expect my child to worship me.

Idiots hardly ever expect worship, and never deserve it. And thankfully, you aren't God. I know this because I know God isn't an idiot.

I would hope no one expects worship including your God, as it is a ridiculous concept.

Worship is an egotistical, narcissistic, primitive form of behavior.

Yet another atheist idiot who cannot tell the difference between his thoughts and reality. His pronouncements aren't opinion, they're law!

You apparently think worship is part of God's law. At least I'm real and able to communicate. Talking to God is a one way conversation.

Your assumption looks kinda silly now doesn't it?

Your assumption makes you look like a good little obedient slave

Thank you. I know I'm aiming high when I shoot for Slave of King Jesus Christ, but He just inspires greatness in me.

At least you admitted your a slave. Make sure you put your hands together when you pray as well. That is what African slaves had to do before their master put the shackles on their wrists.

...... and your God an egomaniacal d*ck.

Yeah, you seem perfect next to Him.

Yay! I can be God's right hand man. From heaven we can watch all of the horrible things happening to humanity including rape, murder, molestation, suffering, starvation, war, etc. and do nothing about it. Oh wait I'm a human and can actually intervene in human affairs, unlike God.
ethang5
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12/30/2016 8:23:48 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/30/2016 5:25:35 AM, cameron339 wrote:
At 12/30/2016 3:42:40 AM, ethang5 wrote:

So tell me theists, why do you do all of those things, while proclaiming your God is perfect.

For the same reasons we eat, sleep, and love. Do you love anyone? No? Then no wonder.

Eating and sleeping are biological impulses required for our survival.

Yes. Note how the atheist is either too stupid or too obtuse to make the connection.

Oh, so now worship, prayer, praise, rituals, etc. are required for survival if your a Christian? Sounds like a miserable existence.

Do eating, sleeping, and loving make you miserable? Rhetorical question. Youre an atheist with no real purpose. Of course you're basically unhappy.

Love is just an emotion. Yes, I love many people. Especially my daughter and wife. But they have demonstrated that they exist.

God has too. Would your wife cease to exist if I refused to admit she existed?

Really, God has demonstrated that he exists?

Of course. Why do you think the majority of people believe he exists? You think it's just His good looks?

Where is this Yahweh Yahoo at?

With that sociopathic attitude, I hesitate to tell you. I like God.

I have not been able to find him neither has science.

You and science went looking for God? We're you in charge of that expedition or was science?

Oh that's right, he only exists in your head as a deluded concept, just like worship is!

If you are too feeble-minded to rationally argue your way to victory, silly assumptions make a nice substitute no?

Not quite sure what this has to do with my original question, elaborate pease?

Your idea that whatever we do for God means God needs that thing is stupid beyond belief. So we know you're trolling and thus, treated you like a troll.

It's stupid beyond d belief?

Well, an idiot might believe it. But I assumed you wouldn't think I was including you.

If he does not need it, why are you f*cking doing it then.....

Is your problem that I'm doing it, or that He doesn't need it? You seemed confused.

....you religious moron?

It funny being called a moron by a moron.

How many other meaningless activities do you waste your time on throughout your life, seems like quite a bit.

The meaningfullness of my activities are determined by me, not you. You are so stupid you think if God doesn't need worship, then my worshipping Him is meaningless. You aren't smart enough to fathom that I might be the one needing to worship God, and it could be meaningful for me. Alas, everyone can't be smart now, can they?

It doesn't make any sense. Either you have a perfect God that doesn't need anything, or he does need/expect things from us, but then you are worshipping an imperfect God.

Or you are an idiot who thinks God must need whatever He is offered. Either or.

So your big brain came up with the conclusion that whatever we do for God must be a need of God? And then you somehow made that bit of poor thinking into an iron-iron-clad fact and were off to the assumption races?

Yes everything you do for God must be a need of his because if it's not, then it is not necessary and a waste of time.

This bit of stupidity is so self defeating, it will flush itself. No comment needed here.

Really folks. I did not set this up.

He might not want you to do any of those things (worship, praise, glorify, etc.)

Not the point. We want it.

You want it?

Yes.

LOL! So you want prayer, worship, praise, rituals, glorification, etc.

Yes. We want to pray, worship, praise,and glorify God.

Talk about an egomaniac who likes to stroke their ego.

Just don't talk about idiots. Your ears would burn.

You're just assuming that he likes/wants these things.

Actually no. God wants these things because the are good for me, and He loves me.

How do you know he loves you?

He said so and He acts so. How do you know your wife loves you? Err.. she does I hope?

If I was God, I would send you straight to Hell where you belong.

Then I'm glad for the clause in the Godstitution prohibiting idiots from being God. Lucky me.

Luck for you, Hell doesn't exist neither does Heaven.

You are half right. For me, Hell doesn't exist.

But Heaven is just as much of an abomination as Hell is, so it doesn't really matter.

Not for you it seems anyway.

Just as I want my children to obey me, not because I need their obedience, but because THEY need it to keep safe and happy. But some trolling moron could always accuse me of being a megalomaniac because I require my daughters to obey me, and that I NEED their obedience.

Yes children should obey their parents, but not an imaginary sky daddy.

Lol. We all already knew that it wasn't our worshipping God that bothered you.

Surely he needs some of these things if you think he wants a relationship with him.

Are you guessing? Sorry dude, I can only treat your stupidity with a certain amount of seriousness.

Which is it?

The option that makes sense..... the one you conveniently left out of your bogus options. God does not need our praise, worship, or love. We choose to praise, worship, and love Him because it is right and natural for His children to do.

Oh, so you think you can just "flatter" your way into heaven by showing God how much of an obedient slave you are.

Why do moron atheist always think they can win a debate with stupidity? Is that what works with their base? Exactly how stupid do these idiots think you Gentle Readers are?

Sorry, I would never expect my child to worship me.

Idiots hardly ever expect worship, and never deserve it. And thankfully, you aren't God. I know this because I know God isn't an idiot.

I would hope no one expects worship including your God, as it is a ridiculous concept.

So you hope no one needs worship, including God. Christians tell you God doesn't need worship. What problem of yours remains?

Worship is an egotistical, narcissistic, primitive form of behavior.

Too bad you don't live in a facist state where you can force other people to stop worshipping God huh? Wouldn't that be fun?

You apparently think worship is part of God's law.

No. I worship God because I want to. It comes naturally to me. It edifies me and I think God more than deserves my worship.

At least I'm real and able to communicate. Talking to God is a one way conversation.

For you sure. If I were God, I wouldn't talk to you either. You're a jerk.

Your assumption looks kinda silly now doesn't it?

Your assumption makes you look like a good little obedient slave

Thank you. I know I'm aiming high when I shoot for Slave of King Jesus Christ, but He just inspires greatness in me.

At least you admitted your a slave.

I would count it my greatest accomplishment and joy if He found me worthy of being His slave. It's a huge hope but I've got my fingers crossed!

Make sure you put your hands together when you pray as well. That is what African slaves had to do before their master put the shackles on their wrists.

My Master removed the shackles from my wrists, (and my mind) but thanks for the tip.

...... and your God an egomaniacal d*ck.

Yet He wouldn't send me to Hell, and you say you would if you were God. Im quite clear on who the egomaniacal d*ck is, and it ain't God.

Yay! I can be God's right hand man.

Sorry. The right hand man position also requires the person be a non-idiot.

From heaven we can watch all of the horrible things happening to humanity including rape, murder, molestation, suffering, starvation, war, etc. and do nothing about it.

The Yahoo should come and save you? Maybe you haven't rubbed bottle hard enough.

Oh wait I'm a human and can actually intervene in human affairs, unlike God.

How many starving kids did you save today? No more than the imaginary Yahoo? Not impressive for one so real is it?
keithprosser
Posts: 8,122
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12/30/2016 9:07:37 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/30/2016 8:23:48 AM, ethang5 wrote:
How many starving kids did you save today? No more than the imaginary Yahoo? Not impressive for one so real is it?

All things bright and beautiful, the Lord God made them all... even that vulture waiting for a child to die.

https://en.wikipedia.org...
ethang5
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12/30/2016 10:55:38 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/30/2016 9:07:37 AM, keithprosser wrote:
At 12/30/2016 8:23:48 AM, ethang5 wrote:
How many starving kids did you save today? No more than the imaginary Yahoo? Not impressive for one so real is it?

All things bright and beautiful, the Lord God made them all... even that vulture waiting for a child to die.

https://en.wikipedia.org...

All things dark and ugly, the Lord God made them all.... even that penicillin waiting for a child to be born.

Bet you were having a pizza as that child died. But it's imaginary God who is guilty, not real old you.

Can we say crocodile tears? I thought we could.
keithprosser
Posts: 8,122
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12/30/2016 11:04:40 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/30/2016 10:55:38 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 12/30/2016 9:07:37 AM, keithprosser wrote:
At 12/30/2016 8:23:48 AM, ethang5 wrote:
How many starving kids did you save today? No more than the imaginary Yahoo? Not impressive for one so real is it?

All things bright and beautiful, the Lord God made them all... even that vulture waiting for a child to die.

https://en.wikipedia.org...

All things dark and ugly, the Lord God made them all.... even that penicillin waiting for a child to be born.

Bet you were having a pizza as that child died. But it's imaginary God who is guilty, not real old you.

Can we say crocodile tears? I thought we could.

You should learn to recognise irony. I spent over 25 years working on humanitarian projects in Africa. I'm an atheist. Think what you like.
loveymore
Posts: 130
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12/30/2016 11:57:55 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/30/2016 11:04:40 AM, keithprosser wrote:
At 12/30/2016 10:55:38 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 12/30/2016 9:07:37 AM, keithprosser wrote:
At 12/30/2016 8:23:48 AM, ethang5 wrote:
How many starving kids did you save today? No more than the imaginary Yahoo? Not impressive for one so real is it?

All things bright and beautiful, the Lord God made them all... even that vulture waiting for a child to die.

https://en.wikipedia.org...

All things dark and ugly, the Lord God made them all.... even that penicillin waiting for a child to be born.

Bet you were having a pizza as that child died. But it's imaginary God who is guilty, not real old you.

Can we say crocodile tears? I thought we could.

You should learn to recognise irony. I spent over 25 years working on humanitarian projects in Africa. I'm an atheist. Think what you like.

Irony is self-deception, does not bring any real advance.
ethang5
Posts: 23,687
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12/30/2016 12:05:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/30/2016 11:04:40 AM, keithprosser wrote:
At 12/30/2016 10:55:38 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 12/30/2016 9:07:37 AM, keithprosser wrote:
At 12/30/2016 8:23:48 AM, ethang5 wrote:
How many starving kids did you save today? No more than the imaginary Yahoo? Not impressive for one so real is it?

All things bright and beautiful, the Lord God made them all... even that vulture waiting for a child to die.

https://en.wikipedia.org...

All things dark and ugly, the Lord God made them all.... even that penicillin waiting for a child to be born.

Bet you were having a pizza as that child died. But it's imaginary God who is guilty, not real old you.

Can we say crocodile tears? I thought we could.

You should learn to recognise irony. I spent over 25 years working on humanitarian projects in Africa. I'm an atheist. Think what you like.

I'd rather think what your posts tell me if it's all the same to you.

I live in Africa now. Which organization did you work with?

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