Opinion Question
Argument
Posted by: Maximalist1

No Hard Evidence

  There has never been any physical evidence I've seen or heard that proves that God exists. I need much more than the claim of some guy that lived a long time ago to prove something as big as this. It's always made me curious how someone can believe in something that's never been proved the have existed.
Dangeresque says2014-02-21T06:08:12.177
One word. Indoctrination. They dont know why they believe it. But thats how they were raised. Most are too ignorant to question their beliefs once in their entire lives
KaileyFox says2014-02-21T06:51:01.823
"They dont know why they believe it."
Untrue. I believe in God because I feel there is a higher power that watches over all of us and somehow works out the circumstances of everything that happens in the world, and I like that belief, so I continue to believe it.

"Most are too ignorant to question their beliefs once in their entire lives"
This is also untrue. While some Christians continue to stick to the beliefs they were taught by old-school parents, some question a lot of things they believe about God, especially during young adulthood. But I also think God uses that to help us trust in him even more.
janetsanders733 says2014-02-21T07:04:33.803
@Maximilist1 you don't believe Jesus existed? That's a historical fact that's not disputed.
Moath says2014-02-21T11:04:47.507
Me as a Muslim i know god exists because of many reasons, Quran was our proof and my proof; In Quran there's many many evidences like:
-Two seas meet but not mixed
-earth is made of 7 layers was mentioned too, imagine an old book which is Quran said that, it was confirmed by scientists.
The same Quran that has many proofs about things around us we say it's not true until scientists discover it and we tell them it was In Quran for more than 1400 years, it was wrote that GOD "Allah" exists.
Moath says2014-02-21T11:06:54.030
It was wrote in Quran that GOD "Allah" exists**
Installgentoo says2014-02-21T12:25:08.797
It can't be "proved" that anything exists.

Science, which deals with the real world, doesn't deal in proofs. It deals in describing the natural world, which is constantly changing, therefore it can never prove that some object it describes exists. Asking for proof something exists is like asking for proof air exists, it is just impossible.
Dangeresque says2014-02-21T17:04:13.020
Kailyfox. You "feel god in your heart" is a terrible reason.
You still don't know why you are Christian. You feel that there is a higher power but how do you know it's not Allah or zues? If you were born in Iraq you would be Muslim. Born in India you would most likely be Hindu or Buddhist. Religion is mostly geographic.
Let me ask you what religion your parents are?

While some Christians do question their believes, my point was that most don't. Most Christians I have met have never red the bible and don't even know the name of the Christian god.
People only seem to question their beliefe when their life gets difficult. If you only trust In god when he is being nice to you then that isn't real belief. You attribute the wins to god and the faults to man when your own book says he is responsible for all if it.

Can you provide a single reason on how Christianity has more validity than Islam?
janetsanders733 says2014-02-21T19:18:24.447
@Instanllegto But Science can show what is more probable than not. All the evidence shows that God's existence is more probable than not.
janetsanders733 says2014-02-21T19:33:23.900
@Dangeresque I think what your committing here is the textbook Genetic fallacy, which tries to falsify a belief based upon how it originated.
Dangeresque says2014-02-21T21:31:42.297
So we should ignore all origin? Sounds like bad science to me, which then again is the definition of religion. Still you have yet to tell me what validates christianity over islam. No, "i feel him in my heart" is not evidence
janetsanders733 says2014-02-21T21:36:28.780
@Dangeresque I can, but I'm simply saying that trying to call Religion false, based upon where it originated from geographically does not make a religious belief false. It may be true that if you and I were born in Germany at the time of the holocaust that would be probably socialists. But that doesn't make socialism true or false does it? No, you have to judge a belief system based on facts and evidence.

Christiniaty is true because it's based upon historical fact. The Resurrection of Jesus is based upon 4 historical facts that secular and non-secular scholars and historians agree upon. 1) THe empty Tomb
2) the Post-Mortem Apperances 3) Origin of belief in disciples 4) Burial of JEsus by Joseph of Arimiethea
KaileyFox says2014-02-21T22:56:07.600
@Dangeresque:
"You still don't know why you are Christian."
Excuse you, but don't tell me what I believe. Thanks.

"You feel that there is a higher power but how do you know it's not Allah or zues? If you were born in Iraq you would be Muslim. Born in India you would most likely be Hindu or Buddhist. Religion is mostly geographic. "
There's no way to tell that because in my life, I was born in America and grew up in a Christian household. But don't point a finger at me and tell me I'm just a copy of my parents' identity as Christians. I am a Christian not only because it's been a part of my belief system since I was young, but also because I love God and want to walk in Christ's footsteps. Sure, it could be Allah or Buddha or whoever up there in heaven orchestrating everything, but I believe it's God because I walk by faith and not by sight. Also, if you're going to ask me that question, why do you believe it's Allah or Buddha or some other god, (or nothing at all), but not God himself? That sort of question can go in dangerous circles, getting us nowhere.

"Most Christians I have met have never red the bible and don't even know the name of the Christian god."
I'm not sure if you're lying or if you've truly met Christians that act like that. Here's the thing, if a Christian has never read the Bible and doesn't know that God's name is...Well, many things, but God is the main one, then I think you have a bunch of people wearing Christian masks...

"People only seem to question their beliefe when their life gets difficult. If you only trust In god when he is being nice to you then that isn't real belief. You attribute the wins to god and the faults to man when your own book says he is responsible for all if it."
You really like to think you know what people are thinking based on their comment, don't you? How silly of you to put me in the same category of "new-born" Christians who only grovel at God's feet when they need something. I try to walk daily with Christ and utilize his ways. I want a relationship with God and I want it to grow stronger. That's why when I've struggled with my faith in the past I've become an even more avid Christian. I didn't call out to God simply because I was sick or because life was tough that day, and then when he answered, I didn't leave him behind. I called out because I had faith he would help me through the tough times, which he did.

"Can you provide a single reason on how Christianity has more validity than Islam?"
Why should I have to? I'm a Christ-follower, not an Allah-follower, and I walk by faith that God exists, not by sight.
Dangeresque says2014-02-22T00:28:48.337
So far in your comment you have
1. Ignored every question i have asked by claiming that you dont need to answer it
2. Listed faith as proof of god
3. Taken a very offended tone when i have not made a single rude statement, or intended to be rude at least.

"but I believe it's God because I walk by faith and not by sight"
an argument that be used to argue every religion loses its pertinence
for isntace.
One could say "but I believe it's allah because I walk by faith and not by sight" and it would be just as valid as your statement

" if you're going to ask me that question, why do you believe it's Allah or Buddha or some other god, (or nothing at all), but not God himself? That sort of question can go in dangerous circles, getting us nowhere."
gosh you just love spouting out fallacies dont you?

That question does not go in circles.
I believe in things that can be supported by evidence
no religion since the dawn of time has ever pulled together a single scrap of veritable evidence for their deity or belief system
If someone came out with actual proof of god, yea i would change my mind because i consider myself a man of science.
I have found that every religion has the exact same amount of so called "reasons", if they can even be classified as that, to believe. Almost all of them have a holy text, almost all of them have some sort of messiah, each and every single one of them has some contradiction to the laws of physics.

Adam and eve being the first humans is impossible
the amount of genetic diseases we have today could not have happend in 6000 years.
If you dont believe it was 6000 years then, if only two people populated the earth the species would have died out from horrible deformities caused by incest. And could not have produced the amount of variety in genes that we have today.
If adam and eve did not exist, then there was no original sin,
if there was no original sin then jesus would have never been sent down to cleanse it with his sacrifice
the entire bases of your religion is on that one story, which is a logical false hood

to give your self to a religion is to be content with the answer "god did it"
which is a terrible crime to humanity as a whole. This teaches people to stop seeking truth in the universe, and settle for that one unsatisfying answer. If you dont think that that is true, then you obviously have either not ever been to a church, havnt red a single holy book, or dont talk about science with religious people.
KaileyFox says2014-02-22T01:33:43.040
"1. Ignored every question i have asked by claiming that you dont need to answer it
2. Listed faith as proof of god
3. Taken a very offended tone when i have not made a single rude statement, or intended to be rude at least."
Not in the slightest. I never said I didn't need to answer them, and on top of that, I did answer them, did I not? I have not proven God using faith. I have proven my /beliefs/ by using faith.
I have a right to be offended as you have basically put words in my mouth about what I believe. Example: "You still don't know why you are Christian." You're making a claim that I myself do not know how to be a Christ-follower when I've been doing it my entire life. You, on the other hand, are not a Christ-follower. How would you know if I was right or wrong? That's like if I took one of your beliefs, redefined it, and then told you you're not doing it right according to myself. Narcissistic is what that is.

"One could say "but I believe it's allah because I walk by faith and not by sight" and it would be just as valid as your statement"
You don't seem to understand that I haven't made any claims about there being proof of God existing, at least, none for you, considering you're not open to God. I, on the other hand, know God exists because I am open to his existence. It's my belief. If you have a problem with that, then so be it. I'd much rather focus on something more important than fighting with people about their beliefs. It really won't help us understand each other or solve anything in the long run.

"gosh you just love spouting out fallacies dont you?"
And what fallacies was I spouting, O wise one of debate?

"no religion since the dawn of time has ever pulled together a single scrap of veritable evidence for their deity or belief system"
And...Why should we have to? It's called a belief, as I've said before. And really, this comment is no better than when the Fundamentalists force people to believe in God. You're trying to force your own beliefs down my throat. Why is it so hard for you to accept others as believing something you don't? On top of that, why can't I believe in God and also understand the material world? Atheists seem to think if someone believes in a deity, they're automatically ignorant to everything around them. Completely untrue and narrow-minded. It's true that some Christians are ignorant, but some are renowned scientists who are Christians BECAUSE of science. Explain ignorance on that one.

"each and every single one of them has some contradiction to the laws of physics."
And what sort of contradictions are those? I'm genuinely curious. As a woman of science, I'd like to know.

"Adam and eve being the first humans is impossible"
The Bible does say that Adam and Eve were the first two humans alive, but how do you know God didn't create more humans after them? The Bible doesn't say God stopped after he created Adam and Eve, just because they could recreate on their own. Also, the earth is clearly older than 6000 years. Just because Ken Ham likes to believe in a 6000 year old earth doesn't mean we're all blind to scientific facts.

"the entire bases of your religion is on that one story, which is a logical false hood"
I suggest you read my above answer again if you still believe this afterward.

"to give your self to a religion is to be content with the answer "god did it" which is a terrible crime to humanity as a whole."
Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize you spoke for all humankind.
Seriously, though, you make everything out to be black and white. There are gray areas. For one thing, I believe God did it, but I also believe he did it in a way we can understand using science. Because I believe he's the God over everything, why wouldn't it make sense that he can utilize something he created to heal us, or other such things?

"This teaches people to stop seeking truth in the universe, and settle for that one unsatisfying answer. If you dont think that that is true, then you obviously have either not ever been to a church, havnt red a single holy book, or dont talk about science with religious people."
Wow. Once again, the narcissism and narrow-mindedness, not to mention the ad hominem and assumptions. I think you need to find proof for your own answers before you try to prove God. To say ALL church-goers and ALL Christians are the cause of idiocy in this world is so beyond stereotypical and ignorant. There are plenty of unintelligent atheists, as well. But I won't put this in a box like you have. Intelligence isn't based on beliefs. Sure, there are Christians out there, once again, that blind themselves to science, but not all. Some of us can settle for being Christians /and/ enjoying science. If that's something you have a problem with, then I suggest you deal with it fast because I'm not moving to the black and white world you live in.
Dangeresque says2014-02-22T06:05:36.707
Jesus christ, read my comment closely before putting words in my mouth.

Also, stop insulting me as a person, its embarrassing to yourself and does not reflect good debate protocol. If you are so pained by your beliefs being questioned then your faith really must not be that strong

"You, on the other hand, are not a Christ-follower. How would you know if I was right or wrong?"
you know what they say about assuming right? Pretty humorous, in my opinion that your argument is so week you have to throw out random accusations. You dont know who i am. I was born into a christian house, was a devote christian. So yea, i understand your beliefs pretty f***ing well.

Exhibit 2
"considering you're not open to God"
i recall writing this
"If someone came out with actual proof of god, yea i would change my mind because i consider myself a man of science."
im open to the idea, i have considered it, i have declined it.

Also look up the word narcissistic your using it wrong
dont know how i have exhibited self obsession

""no religion since the dawn of time has ever pulled together a single scrap of veritable evidence for their deity or belief system"
And...Why should we have to? It's called a belief"
what to you mean why do we have too?????? I believe in science, i believe in gay rights. Those are all beliefs. For which i have a lot of reasons to believe in and scientific proof on specific proof to back them up. To believe in something without evidence is the literal definition of gullibility

"each and every single one of them has some contradiction to the laws of physics."
And what sort of contradictions are those? I'm genuinely curious. As a woman of science, I'd like to know.
Your joking with this one right?
Do you want a 50 page paper or just a few comments i honestly dont know how to begin.
Maybe just by the fact that part of the definition of a deity is that its outside the laws of physics, or i could go to the whole wine to water thing, or maybe walking on water, or maybe rising from the dead. Or maybe the giant logical fallacy with god being omnipotent/benevolent and omniscient.
I can go longer if you want me too
and no, magic is not a answer to all of these.

'I think you need to find proof for your own answers before you try to prove God." what do you want me to prove exactly? Because my own answers to the universe have been proven with science

To say ALL church-goers and ALL Christians are the cause of idiocy in this world is so beyond stereotypical and ignorant. There are plenty of unintelligent atheists, as well. But I won't put this in a box like you have. Intelligence isn't based on beliefs.

Please, point out to me the single line where i said that all christians are idiots?
If you look its not there, i know because i wrote it
my point was that it teaches people to be content with not knowing the answers to the big questions. Like where did we come from. I never said that you are an idiot for not asking that
you put so many words in my mouth. You seem to have this completely bigoted view of atheists and cant take a single thing we say as non-heathenistic

"but I also believe he did it in a way we can understand using science"
now being an atheist i of course do not believe in a god, but im not going to yell at you about how he doesn't exist. That being said, if you beilive in science, you believe that everything is explainable but god made it that way. Then that makes god unnecessary to the creation of the world. If you look at all the scientific theories. They can explain the universes creation without divine intervention. And if you believe that science is veritable, then you have to at least recognize that god isnt necessary, however he may exist, but he was not needed.

"Some of us can settle for being Christians /and/ enjoying science. If that's something you have a problem with, then I suggest you deal with it fast because I'm not moving to the black and white world you live in."

Why do you think that i hate christians? You see me as this war mongerer but ive been perfectly civil, maybe not in this post but in my previous ones i never attacked you personally or resorted to name calling. I Hate christianity and what is stands for and what it does to people. For instance, i hate cancer, but not cancer patients. I love it when christians are interested in science, but the fact of the matter is, is that most, or many at least, are not. Most christians still deny evolution, however that number is rising now which i am happy for. Just a figure to out out there 93% of scientists are atheist. According to a lot of polls, the percent of atheists in the population goes up in groups that have more education. So yes, i do think that the general atheist is more intelligent then the general christian.But i have very good evidence for that assumtion
KaileyFox says2014-02-22T06:08:14.143
"Jesus christ, read my comment closely before putting words in my mouth."
Yeah. I'd say /you're/ the one offended here. We're clearly done here, since you don't know how to respond in a respectful manner and you can't be open-minded about beliefs.
Dangeresque says2014-02-22T06:09:55.983
Dear god you called me narcissistic, narrow minded and made false assumptions on my life based on bigotry. How am i the disrespectful one? I never once resorted to name calling if you do recal
Dangeresque says2014-02-22T06:11:10.767
Oh and i forgot to mention that you have yet to actually back those insults up with reasoning that is actually based in logic
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