Opinion Question
Argument
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The rich have to much money.

  There are many uses for that money, more than 20% of the USA's money belongs to the rich(1% of the population). That money has many more uses that for their leisure. Many are in the streets in poverty while the rich make money. Do the rich need all this money? No. Some may ask, do we have the right to take off the rich, yes! They took money off us. With flat tax, everyone has to pay an equal amount, it suits the rich, but many will not be able to afford it. Proggresive tax is much better. It allows everyone to be taxed according to their income. Much fairer!
Victorian says2013-07-08T17:55:29.977
First how did the rich "take money off" you? Second, with a flat tax, everyone pays the same percent, which is NOT the same amount of money. (with a 10% flat tax, a person who makes $100 pays $10. A person who makes $100,000,000 pays $10,000,000. Ten dollars is not the same as ten million dollars) And third, we already have a progressive tax in the U.S.
Izazovnog says2013-07-08T20:18:14.090
1.
Capatilism is a poor system. The idea is that everyone has the right to make money. However, running a buisiness is all about making risks, some fail some do. So while the succesful(the rich) have much money, they are growing in money, while the poor are getting poorer.
Now, many of us do not have the chance to be rich as we are paying to much to the rich(i.E. Hyper-inflation), also there is not enough money for everyone to be rich. There is another way how the rich take money off us, i.E taxes. The goverment tax, and give much of the taxed money to the rich.
2.
My mistake with this, I mis-understood what flat tax meant.
3.
Good, that means we should now try flat tax, more fair. Progressive tax is good, but flat tax is better.
Victorian says2013-07-08T20:29:10.527
I still don't see how the rich took money from you. I understand that some people are luckier and more successful than others, but more successful people are not taking money from those less successful, they are just earning more.
Victorian says2013-07-08T20:33:51.690
Also, I'm not saying that the government does not give money to the rich, but it spends a lot more money on social programs and welfare, which gives money to the poor.
Izazovnog says2013-07-08T21:06:54.673
With their success, they get much money. This lowers the chance of the poor getting enough money. Also, selling something for more than it's worth. For example, we are forced to pay much for food, so we can live. So by making us pay to much, they are taking our money. The rich's main reason for this is themselves.

Also, the amount of the the tax is used with these orginisation is still outweighed completly by the factors that make the rich poor, mainly the rich. Also, these orginisation do not help all of the poor, just some of them.
Victorian says2013-07-08T23:43:12.460
You are assuming that the economy is a zero sum situation, which is untrue. When the rich get money, that does not lower the chance of poor people getting money. In fact, in general, rich people and poor people both tend to do well when the economy is good, and both lose money when the economy is bad. Also, no one is making people pay too much for food. In fact, government subsides (using money taken mostly from the rich) make food artificially cheap.

I agree with you that many programs only help some of the poor, not all of them, but I believe that this is mostly because many people, for reasons of pride and principle, would rather earn less money working than they could if they received welfare.
Izazovnog says2013-07-09T09:47:16.300
1. I am not assuming, I am using logic. How much money is there in the World? Not enough for everyone. So as the rich get luckier, the poor lose there oppertunity because the rich are taking it. There is only a certain amount of money in the World. We do not have enough for everyone to be rich. If someone is rich, then some others will be poor.

2. Intrestingly, the price for food is growing. It is slowly growing bit by bit.
Sadly it is true. We are paying to much. Also, our food is shrinking so the rich can make a profit.

3. Not allway's, many can not have it. Many are homeless, many are unfit to do so. There are many reason's.
Izazovnog says2013-07-09T09:48:52.447
Also, it is the rich who do well, not the poor.
Victorian says2013-07-09T19:03:50.417
1) You are missing my point. Opportunity is not finite resource. New technologies are always being developed. New businesses are opening all the time. There is always opportunity. Every opportunity that is "taken" creates dozens more. Your claim that there is not enough money in the world for everyone is also irrational. Money only represents real wealth in terms of resources and other objects and ideas with genuine intrinsic value, and more things of intrinsic value are being created all the time. New buildings are being built. New technologies are being invented. It does not make sense to state that "there is only a certain amount of money in the world". When an economy prospers, everyone in that economy does better. EVEN THE POOR. Even very poor people in the U.S. Are better off than millions upon millions of African villagers who work much harder, and have nothing.

2) I still don't see how we are paying "too much" for food. What is your definition of "too much"? I assume that by "our food is shrinking" you are referring to the declining sizes of food containers while the price stays the same. I agree that this is an underhanded way of raising the price, but you are incorrect in assuming that this makes a profit for "the rich" Most stock is owned my average middle class people.

3) I realize that homeless people are in a terrible situation, but I still think that the instances of poor people who are truly unable to get government benefits are exceedingly rare and are only flukes in the system. If you have evidence to the contrary, let me know.
Izazovnog says2013-07-09T20:19:24.483
1. Achually, it takes. What does the technology do if you can't afford it?
However, if someone is rich, some people will have to be poor. There is not enough money for everyone not to be poor if someone is rich.

2. Now the price is rising. If you look everyday, you will see it for yourself.
Bussiness's buy good's from ordinary people, and sell it for a higher price. In fact, the price is to high.

3. I do not think so. Do you know what it takes to get welfare? Do you know how hard it is? One of the questions is something like this: can you lift a carboard box? The answer is yes. Yet, you can, but with dificultty.

4. Now if you wish me to provide evidence, I will.
Victorian says2013-07-09T20:43:06.930
1) What do you mean by "Actually it takes"? My point with advancing technology is that there is always opportunity to invent a new technology, or benefit from technology. Many very poor people benefit from very expensive technologies like subways and other public transportation systems.

2) You still haven't explained your definition of paying "too much" for food. Farmers have to make a profit or they could not buy clothes. The truck drivers who take that food to the grocery store have to make a profit to live. The people who run the machines that package the food have to live. Of course they all buy the food for less than they sell it for. They have to make money just like everyone else.

3) My point is that nobody starves to death in this country. If people are that desperate, they get help.

4) If you find evidence of someone who actually starved to death in the U.S. (and was not a victim of criminals) please show me. I can obviously not point to people who did not starve to support my point because that would be arguing form silence. The burden of proof is on you.
Izazovnog says2013-07-09T21:26:08.850
I have much to answer to, and much to answer. I have not finished debating, and I doubt you have. We will spend to long debating.

So let's agree to create a debate about what we are talking about. Create a debate titled: The rich are responsable for making people poor. I will be Pro, and you will be Con. Before creating you may want to message me about the further settings of the debate, such as defintion and rounds.
I will not acceapt immeditattly, because I am busy with another debate.

Do you agree to my sugesstion?
Victorian says2013-07-10T03:32:59.327
That's a great idea! I am also busy with another debate, but soon I will message you to discuss definitions and settings. I look forward to a great debate!
Izazovnog says2013-07-10T17:12:14.413
I do as well! Thank you!
anon3905634074 says2014-03-31T14:42:34.410
How exactly does one ''much''? I feel everyone should know how ''to much''. Is this a vigorous exercise? I must know. Please reply promptly. Thank you.
WXL says2014-05-20T12:39:13.277
"They took money off us."

How did they take money off you (unless you mean the politicians).

In a flat tax, people pay different amounts (though the percentage is the same). Why should anyone pay a higher percentage of tax? Isn't this discrimination against the wealthy?

"Many are in the streets in poverty while the rich make money."

Then why don't those "many" make some money. There is little excuse of poverty in the US, as everyone gets a decent public education. Everyone has lots of opportunity.
Panzer says2018-08-14T12:16:40.687
"the rich earn more and so they should pay more'

Yea right because putting a burger in a motherfucking box is the same hard work as managing and expanding an entire company
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