Allow one, completely ban the other.

Posted by: Mister_Man

If you had to pick, which would you make legal? The other option would be illegal.

  • Marijuana

  • Tobacco

83% 30 votes
17% 6 votes
  • Doesn't kill 500,000 people a year.

    Posted by: Kozu
  • Tobacco is by far, WAY more harmful than marijuana.

  • Relieves stress, is not responsible for peoples deaths (like tobacco is)

    Posted by: SNP1
  • Although it can have harmful side effects to your brain after a long period of time and prolonged use, the 2nd and 3rd hand smoke aspect doesn't affect nearly as many people as Tobacco does. You won't die from smoking pure Marijuana, unlike Tobacco, which cuts 20 or up to 30 years off your life. Marijuana also doesn't harm the environment when smoked, unlike Tobacco. You also won't get numerous types of Cancer from Marijuana.

  • I would much rather humans use substances that do not effect their mental aptitude negatively. Tobacco, pure tobacco, is actually nowhere near as deadly as people make it out to be.

  • If you smoked cannabis in the same quantity and amount as smokers smoke tobacco you would be worse off quicker both mentally and physically. Cannabis has a lot more carcinogenic tar and aromatic hydrocarbons per ounce compared to tobacco. Tobacco does not have mental health problems associated with it.

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triangle.128k says2015-05-22T19:23:16.9231972-05:00
I'm surprised that two people actually voted for tobacco.
blackkid says2015-05-22T19:24:51.5512588-05:00
Don't be. We're not all politically drug addled n00bs
triangle.128k says2015-05-22T19:26:14.7013908-05:00
Even pure tobacco does harm, it's way more addictive and has no medical benefit and damages your lungs.
triangle.128k says2015-05-22T19:27:30.2541280-05:00
Does tobacco relieve pain and kill cancer cells?
blackkid says2015-05-22T19:27:47.1493612-05:00
Presuming everything being compared is being smoked all things when smoked have that effect. Also, pure tobacco with no additives is probably not as deadly as you think. I recommend you erowid it.
blackkid says2015-05-22T19:29:47.7560536-05:00
Nicotine (http://www.Ncbi.Nlm.Nih.Gov/pmc/articles/PMC526783/) is really great stuff, actually. Surprise, surprise!
Mister_Man says2015-05-22T19:33:30.3461302-05:00
Nicotine and Tobacco aren't the same thing. I'm surprised so many people voted for Tobacco also.
blackkid says2015-05-22T19:34:30.5072732-05:00
Nicotine is the active ingredient everyone wants in Tobacco. THC is the active ingredient everyone wants in Marijuana. Herpaderpa much?
Kozu says2015-05-22T19:35:34.1005340-05:00
@blackkid Do you genuinely believe that tobacco has less of a net detriment to society than marijuana?
blackkid says2015-05-22T19:36:45.8155728-05:00
Both drugs have their own detriments. Tobacco specifically Nicotine is not psychoactive meanwhile THC, or Marijuana's active drug, is psychoactive. That's not good for your brain.
Kozu says2015-05-22T19:37:27.3140083-05:00
Your not answering the question.
blackkid says2015-05-22T19:39:15.1270012-05:00
I just did. "They both have detriments" equals "No, one isn't worse than the other, because they work differently" but congrats on being unable to understand that they aren't actually comparable.
Mister_Man says2015-05-22T19:41:54.1574788-05:00
That's like saying Coke and sugar are the same thing.... Nicotine is in Tobacco, but I'm asking if you'd allow Tobacco and ban Marijuana. I don't really care what the active ingredient everyone wants is, I'm asking if you'd prefer Tobacco to be legalized than Marijuana, regardless of the "ingredient everyone wants."
blackkid says2015-05-22T19:44:44.0002248-05:00
THC is the active ingredient in Marijuana. No THC? No Marijuana. There's no point to "legal" marijuana without THC just like there's no point to "legal" tobacco without Nicotine. Also, yes, one drinks Coca-cola (I presume you didn't mean cocaine) for the sugar, specifically the syrup, it's made of.
Mister_Man says2015-05-22T19:48:41.8669255-05:00
That's what's in all those things, Marijuana isn't 100% comprised of THC just like Tobacco isn't 100% comprised of Nicotine and Coke (yes, the drink) isn't 100% comprised of sugar. Nicotine being "not bad" for you doesn't mean Tobacco is good for you, it just means one thing that makes up Tobacco isn't horrible.
Kozu says2015-05-22T19:51:40.7325188-05:00
@blackkid You never even said ""No, one isn't worse than the other, because they work differently"" so idk why your putting that in quotes. Even if you had, thats a sad attempt to try and close the gap between the two. Your clearly in denial about marijuana's lack of detriment to society when place into the same perspective as tobacco. And not comparable? You may be right, tobacco doesn't have nearly as many benefits as marijuana does, so to even consider tobacco as bad as marijuana is a joke. Maybe I can refer you to the CDC and their absolute lack of reported marijuana deaths. A stark contrast to the 480,000 lives tobacco takes from society *every year*, which is indeed far more detrimental to the united states than marijuana.
blackkid says2015-05-22T19:53:40.0441737-05:00
To be painfully blunt none of the "rest" of the product / plant is that good for you. If it weren't for the two main ingredients both plants are actually toxic (http://sensiseeds.Com/en/blog/getting-roots-cannabis/) in great quantities and it turns out that the tobacco plant has the same problem! Woah! Who'd think? Toxicology classes must be so empty these days.
Kozu says2015-05-22T19:57:57.2637732-05:00
That's a nice blog. I never claimed they weren't toxic. I'll go ahead and let you demonstrate how the 480,000 lives lost to society is less of a detriment than whatever it is you can pull out of your hat for marijuana.
blackkid says2015-05-22T19:58:52.3799864-05:00
"Maybe I can refer you to the CDC and their absolute lack of reported marijuana deaths." If death is the only measure of a drugs value then we have a lot of problems. There are tons of substances on the planet that will destroy you as a human but won't kill you. Surely you can do better than this. You say "this list of benefits is extensive" which is attributed to THC but it turns out that A LOT OF DRUGS HAVE THIS IN COMMON such as cocaine. Nicotine turns out to have tons of benefits. # you know of? Like zero. Comparing the length of the lists would be amusing because, as it turns out, they work differently so considering that the toxicity of both drugs' main ingredients would change as well as their effectiveness in certain scenarios. Who remembers tobacco bandages? Not you! Hooray! Pharmacology? Nah. Boring. Let's try Politically Fueled Ignorance for 100 Alex. "What drug has no side effects ever amen?" "What is, Marijuana?" CORRECT! Yay. Come on, you can't really believe that it's harmless can you? Wait, yeah, yeah you can. A lot of people do based on the fact that it won't ever never ever kill you. Neither will Acid. Or Psychocibilin honestly.
Kozu says2015-05-22T20:12:37.3193517-05:00
Lol, your not even reading my posts. "you said "this list of benefits is extensive"" Never did I type those words. "you can't really believe that it's harmless can you? Wait, yeah, yeah you can" Go ahead and quote me where i say it's harmless. Are you even reading the same poll comments as me? It's obvious your just going to keep making red-herrings and dodge my questions about the calculated detriment tobacco has on society, so I'm just going to leave you to keep talking to yourself.
blackkid says2015-05-22T20:23:00.0398595-05:00
" You may be right, tobacco doesn't have nearly as many benefits as marijuana does" I guess I presumed "nearly as many" to be suggestive of "alot". It's paraphrasing. I know. Legendary. Look, rather than discussing how many people actually die from cigar smoking related complications a year (it's not many and that is tobaccos purest form) I'll leave you to your weird delusions on drug use. I'm playing video games.
Mister_Man says2015-05-22T20:23:52.3972941-05:00
BlackKid, I don't think anyone ever said Marijuana is harmless. It seems like you're having an argument with nobody and just imagining what we're saying. The 480,000 yearly deaths caused directly by Tobacco use is a statistic we use because hey, whattaya know, SOMETHING THAT KILLS YOU ISN'T THAT GOOD FOR YOU. Although Marijuana also has negative side effects, such as very, very rare accounts of schizophrenia (brought to the surface of people who are prone to psychological problems to begin with...) are nothing in comparison to Cancer, extreme pollution to the environment, 2nd and 3rd hand smoke, death, etc....
Kreakin says2015-05-22T21:06:48.0485326-05:00
People still believe the old" weed is harmless rubbish". It is just as carcinogenic and has the same if not more dangerous substances in the smoke as tobacco. It is the rate of use which is different, if you smoke 20 cannabis cigarettes a day you would be substantially worse off than 20 tobacco cigarettes.
Vox_Veritas says2015-05-22T21:20:46.7008422-05:00
Something the Pro-Weed people are forgetting: probably not a single person ever got into a wreck because they were high on tobacco while driving. Other than the cigarette being a fire hazard, being under the influence of nicotine does not make a worker a potential danger to the other employees through accidents or negligence, and other than cigarette breaks tobacco doesn't lower worker productivity. No mother has ever neglected her kids because she was high on nicotine, no soldier in the field has ever been useless in the line of duty because he took a puff of nicotine. Firing a gun while under the influence of nicotine does not make you more likely to accidentally shoot someone, and swimming after smoking won't cause you to drown. If a kid takes a cigarette smoke before a test it won't cause him to fail. To say that marijuana's great and cigarettes are evil is clearly a distortion of the facts.
Kozu says2015-05-22T21:28:27.6203591-05:00
No one is claiming it's harmless. Stop trying put words in peoples mouths. I'm still waiting for someone here to show me how the possible harms of marijuana outweigh the 500,000 deaths that happen every year from tobacco.
Kreakin says2015-05-22T21:31:00.4730783-05:00
@Kozu - If it is legal and mass use ensues you will see your evidence.
Vox_Veritas says2015-05-22T21:31:03.7294678-05:00
I just listed some ways. Increased accidents and neglect. If you're having a heart attack and the only person around is your stoned buddy, you're in trouble.
Kreakin says2015-05-22T21:33:28.9061913-05:00
& lets not even go into the fact most new strains of weed are Colchicine derived.
Kreakin says2015-05-22T21:42:17.7956451-05:00
@Mister_Man - If you work in mental health you would see a lot of people suffer psychosis from taking hallucinogens like cannabis and they are often severe and enduring. Pound for pound smoked cannabis is more carcinogenic than tobacco and far more likely to cause COPD.
Kozu says2015-05-22T21:59:24.3226874-05:00
@Kreakin It's *already* in mass use, nearly 40% of americans have tried it and people have been using it for decades. Plus no one is killing off a 20 pack of joints or more every day like with cigarettes so your "pound for pound" example is just absurd. Not only that they can *easily* quit smoking weed anytime they want *if* they experience any of the harms you listed! @Vox People who are high can still use cellphones perfectly fine. Motor skills are barely affected by weed, and even then it takes far more weed than usual than from a casual sitting to even feel those effects at all. Really you guys, any kind of death as a direct result of it's use would undoubtedly be exploited for propaganda, yet, there has been no reported deaths. Even if you list the things that could cause harms, you are *no where near* close to equivicating the deaths from pot with the deaths from tobacco.
Mister_Man says2015-05-22T22:00:35.8731225-05:00
Every death I've heard about that is "directly related" to marijuana (no car accidents while high, etc), the victim already had an underlying health complication. Heart complications, unnoticed brain trauma, and other factors. I'd appreciate it if one of you could post a link that shows (just like getting Cancer and dying from Tobacco use) getting sick or overdosing and eventually dying from marijuana use - on people without underlying health complications. Also, "if you smoke 20 cannabis cigarettes a day..." - nobody (or not very many people at all) smoke weed like they do cigarettes. The heavy stoners I know smoke MAYBE two joints a day. Nobody smokes weed like they do cigarettes, because weed affects people much differently than cigarettes. And finally, cannabis is not a hallucinogen - Shrooms, LSD, Salvia, etc. are hallucinogens. My dad used to work in a psychiatric institute and extensively evaluated every patient that was checked in. Nearly all the patients with (paranoid) schizophrenia/psychosis who had smoked weed in their lifetimes showed evidence of having the mental illness before being subjected to cannabis, and the cannabis was not the only factor to draw out the illness. Cannabis alone can not CREATE any mental illness -
Mister_Man says2015-05-22T22:01:12.2134548-05:00
"The results of the current study suggest that having an increased familial morbid risk for schizophrenia may be the underlying basis for schizophrenia in cannabis users and not cannabis use by itself." -
blackkid says2015-05-22T22:05:06.8508727-05:00
"The 480,000 yearly deaths caused directly by Tobacco use is a statistic we use because hey, whattaya know, SOMETHING THAT KILLS YOU ISN'T THAT GOOD FOR YOU." The problem with the statistic is that incorporates all forms of illnesses attributed to tobacco without consideration for other risk factors. This means that you'll find people who chewed a tin of tobacco a day or smoked a carton of cigarettes a day lumped in with people who whimsically got bronchitis from smoking with weak lungs. You'll also find cigars mashed up with cigarettes, one is obviously more dangerous than the other, no different than eating pot brownies versus actually smoking the stuff. This game is pretty good you know.
blackkid says2015-05-22T22:06:34.2533144-05:00
There has been considerable debate regarding the causal relationship between chronic cannabis abuse and psychiatric disorders. Clinicians agree that cannabis use can cause acute adverse mental effects that mimic psychiatric disorders, such as schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. Although there is good evidence to support this, the connections are complex and not fully understood. Http://www.Ncbi.Nlm.Nih.Gov/pmc/articles/PMC2811144/ Just for a little balance.
Mister_Man says2015-05-22T22:30:12.4061006-05:00
In your link, there weren't any long term effects. The one guy who went to the hospital a couple times ended up coming out with no affects from weed. The whole study is based around short term effects of marijuana being associated with/mirroring schizophrenia or other disorders AS THE THC REMAINS IN THE BODY. That would be like me saying "alcohol consumption causes increased aggression, complete lack of motor skills, memory loss, lack of communicative abilities, and an overall dissociative personality in some cases," and passing that off to make it seem like those are long term side effects.
Mister_Man says2015-05-22T22:32:46.4438513-05:00
"This means that you'll find people who chewed a tin of tobacco a day or smoked a carton of cigarettes a day lumped in with people who whimsically got bronchitis from smoking with weak lungs." - Can I see a study showing how many people die from Tobacco with no prior health conditions compared to people dying from Cannabis with no prior health conditions?
Kreakin says2015-05-23T07:02:17.6996198-05:00
It's about frequency, cannabis if smoked as regularly as tobacco in the same quantity is way more harmful. It has lots more tars and aromatic hydrocarbons. It has been illegal for good health reasons not a conspiracy theory, it is actually REALLY bad for your health.
blackkid says2015-05-23T09:10:06.9030610-05:00
The most frustrating thing about any discussion today relating to drug use of any kind is that most of them revolve entirely around debilitation. Most substances aren't debilitating though! So now what? It almost always rests less on the actual effects of the drug and more on the risk long-term. You'll always hear, and this is my favorite, an "excuse" for accidents while on drug X (in this case marijuana) that is to be excluded BUT the same standard doesn't apply for drug Y (such as if you were comparing alcohol consumption where most of the deaths are in accidents) and basically it's nothing more than logical philandering. People lie to get what they want and will, at any cost, make things up or paint an unrealistic light to acquire what it is they desire.
CannedBread says2015-07-10T09:01:39.7131306-05:00
At least there is an industry that employees people for construction of cigarettes and farming tobacco. Marijuana doesn't.

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