Are Christian Weapon Salesmen supporting/endorsing Gun Violence? (Comment Below)

Posted by: briantheliberal

A lot of Christian Conservatives believe that catering, baking a cake, delivering flowers, or photographing a gay wedding somehow forces them to accept, or support same-sex marriage, so I must ask this question. Using the same logic, based on common Christian beliefs, do Christians who sell guns somehow promote and support murder and should they be held responsible for any murder committed by the weapons they sell?

  • Yes. They are going against their religion by participating in/supporting/endorsing Gun Violence.

  • No. Their religion and business practices are separate.

26% 5 votes
74% 14 votes
Leave a comment...
(Maximum 900 words)
briantheliberal says2015-04-16T16:49:17.2620066-05:00
Feel free to comment. What are your thoughts on the issue? They are separate issues but do you think a Christian gun dealer who sells guns used to injure and kill people is supporting gun violence in the same way a Christian florist delivering flowers to a gay wedding is somehow obligated to support gay marriage?
PetersSmith says2015-04-16T16:57:45.4658410-05:00
No, because guns themselves weren't made for murdering people, and instead were made to give the country an advantage in war. Flowers weren't made for weddings, nor cakes.
sque132 says2015-04-16T17:15:33.1144278-05:00
@petersmith of course guns were invented to kill people. Chinese fire lances were pretty much the first ones created, used in battle to kill people. What on earth could "an advantage in war" mean other than to kill people?
PetersSmith says2015-04-16T17:20:10.9221529-05:00
Sque132: Murder as in the criminal charge of killing an innocent. The gun owner is not selling someone a gun with the thought that the person is going to murder an innocent person, and thus they aren't supporting "murder".
sque132 says2015-04-16T17:27:56.2056877-05:00
@PetersSmith The primary purpose of a gun is to kill. I'm sure the owners of these shops know fully well that they have sold a gun which has been used for murder. Why stop at murder. Gun violence, self suicide by firearm. But does that stop them, of course not. They carry on selling! So yes in my view they are endorsing all of this, by carrying on selling objects used to kill people.
Varrack says2015-04-16T17:35:31.7515726-05:00
Actually no sque132. Guns can be used to defend, deter crime, and hunt, which are not the same as murder. Guns CAN kill people, but so can cars, drugs, etc if you use them the wrong way.
tajshar2k says2015-04-16T17:47:21.8370134-05:00
Gun Rights are one of the few things that I agree completely with Conservatives. It just seems like common sense.
Dilara says2015-04-16T18:27:40.1362406-05:00
Let guns that are used to commit crime are bought through a black market and not by profesional salesmen. Also guns save 400,000 lives in America a year (CDC) .
ben10kangas says2015-04-16T18:41:22.5039537-05:00
I think the two situations are too different to make an even comparison because the florist knows that the flowers are contributing to a homosexual marriage. Meanwhile, the gun salesman is mostly likely supporting sportsmen or those who need a gun in self defense and will refuse to sell firearms to a person that they deem malevolent or violent.
JonCC says2015-04-16T18:52:09.1285983-05:00
Two separate issues entirely.
briantheliberal says2015-04-16T20:57:44.9363129-05:00
"guns themselves weren't made for murdering people, and instead were made to give the country an advantage in war" - You do realize how contradictory this statement is right?
Mathgeekjoe says2015-04-16T20:58:45.0419570-05:00
Brian, murder mean illegal homicide, if the homicide is legal it is not murder.
briantheliberal says2015-04-16T21:00:59.2962318-05:00
Varrack, the sole purpose of a gun IS to KILL or INJURE a person or animal. That is literally their sole purpose of production. Cars can kill people, but they aren't made to kill, they are made to transport. Drugs can kill people, but they aren't made specifically for that purpose, they are made to medicate, or alter the brain in some way. So that comparison isn't very sound.
briantheliberal says2015-04-16T21:02:17.3226746-05:00
Mathgeekjoe, I clearly didn't say anything about the homicide being legal or illegal.
briantheliberal says2015-04-16T21:03:50.5031527-05:00
Either way, guns are used for both legal and illegal homicides, including war. But just because something is legal doesn't make it moral or good for society.
Mathgeekjoe says2015-04-16T21:06:41.7227256-05:00
Brian, you said varrack was contradicting, I am saying he isn't. Quote- "guns themselves weren't made for murdering people, and instead were made to give the country an advantage in war" - You do realize how contradictory this statement is right?-end quote.
reece says2015-04-16T21:07:16.3533239-05:00
@Mathgeekjoe Christian Conservatives still refuse to serve people that are having a gay marriage even though it's illegal in many states to discriminate when doing business. Remember we're going based on the same logic. Murder is next to kin in this context.
Mathgeekjoe says2015-04-16T21:09:24.1616573-05:00
"Using the same logic, based on common Christian beliefs, do Christians who sell guns somehow promote and support murder and should they be held responsible for any murder committed by the weapons they sell?" If a gun dealer knows that someone is going to use a gun for murder, they wouldn't sell the gun.
reece says2015-04-16T21:10:56.0991363-05:00
@Mathgeekjoe Many Christians believe being gay is contagious...
Mathgeekjoe says2015-04-16T21:11:54.2463797-05:00
"@Mathgeekjoe Many Christians believe being gay is contagious..." What relevance does this have to this poll?
reece says2015-04-16T21:13:00.6560323-05:00
@Mathgeekjoe I take it back if you weren't replying to what i said.
briantheliberal says2015-04-16T21:25:24.1887435-05:00
Mathgeekjoe, firstly, I wasn't responding to Varrack when I said that, I was talking to PetersSmith. Secondly, "If a gun dealer knows that someone is going to use a gun for murder, they wouldn't sell the gun." - How do you know this? And even if this were the case why else would someone be buying a gun aside from hunting and self-defense purposes? A lot of gun related crimes in the U.S. were a result of people legally obtaining guns or using guns they already obtained legally to kill someone else.
briantheliberal says2015-04-16T21:26:31.6415435-05:00
Also, why not ASK the patron what their intentions are BEFORE selling them the gun to avoid being involved in a gun related crime?
Mathgeekjoe says2015-04-16T21:28:07.1397435-05:00
" And even if this were the case why else would someone be buying a gun aside from hunting and self-defense purposes?" Shooting at targets.
briantheliberal says2015-04-16T21:32:33.5333468-05:00
And some of those "targets" also happen to be actual people, unfortunately.
briantheliberal says2015-04-16T21:34:06.3671615-05:00
I know a lot of conservatives like making excuses when confronted with these things, but let's try to think rationally about this for a second. Some people do in fact use guns they obtained legally for malicious purposes ie killing or injuring themselves or other people. If Christian gun dealers want to avoid being accused of supporting murder, suicide or violence involving guns based on religious standards, they should either not sell guns anymore, or separate their religion from the business practices. Same with baking a cake for a gay wedding. You can't go around refusing certain people you don't agree with and justify it by saying it's against your beliefs, but completely disregard this same notion when it's convenient for you. That was my point.
Mathgeekjoe says2015-04-16T21:36:11.0711633-05:00
Brian, there is a slight difference that you are not noticing. They know if the cake is for a homo-sexual wedding, they don't know if a gun is for murder. If they know that someone is going to use the weapons for illegal homicide, they will not sell the gun.
briantheliberal says2015-04-16T21:46:57.7099277-05:00
"If they know that someone is going to use the weapons for illegal homicide, they will not sell the gun." - Again, how do you know this? There is always that possibility, and many gun salesmen don't really care nor do they even bother asking their customers what their intentions are for purchasing the gun in the first place. I believe most places also have policies in which their customer's purchases remain confidential until the law comes into play, in that case they need a warrant. There is no difference here.
Mathgeekjoe says2015-04-16T21:50:09.6174371-05:00
"Again, how do you know this? There is always that possibility, and many gun salesmen don't really care nor do they even bother asking their customers what their intentions are for purchasing the gun in the first place." You are now stereotyping all gun dealers because some gun salesmen don't really care, are you telling me that your average gun salesman doesn't care about if their guns are used for murder?
briantheliberal says2015-04-16T21:50:16.6061027-05:00
It's just like when a Christian baker denies baking a cake for a gay couple's wedding, but don't hesitate to service someone who is having their second wedding, but because they aren't gay it's somehow okay. It's hypocrisy.
briantheliberal says2015-04-16T21:51:19.0205024-05:00
"You are now stereotyping" - Wrong, nowhere did I stereotype. Don't start falsely accusing me of something because you can't answer the question.
Mathgeekjoe says2015-04-16T21:51:23.2168217-05:00
Maybe they believe a marriage that is not between a man and a women is a bigger violation than a second marriage.
briantheliberal says2015-04-16T21:52:26.6296022-05:00
"Maybe they believe a marriage that is not between a man and a women is a bigger violation than a second marriage." - Wait, so where in the Bible does it say any sin is greater than others? This is hypocrisy, plain and simple.
briantheliberal says2015-04-16T21:53:31.0095641-05:00
Adultery and divorce are no less sinful than homosexuality.
Mathgeekjoe says2015-04-16T21:58:30.8981969-05:00
"If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him lifeā€”to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death." 1 John 5:16-17 Just so you know, death means going to hell.
briantheliberal says2015-04-16T22:09:36.0850046-05:00
"For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it." (Jame 2:10). "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1 John 1:09). All sins are equal in the eyes of the Christian god and can be forgiven through repentance. Sin is sin so no, you can't serve adulterers, but refuse to serve gay people and use your religion as an excuse to justify one form of discrimination over the other. And not only that, god and Jesus himself condemned adultery and divorce way more often than homosexuality. Jesus didn't even mention homosexuality in the Bible. So again, this is hypocrisy.
Mathgeekjoe says2015-04-16T22:13:13.1860295-05:00
"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" This doesn't mean they are equal, it means that despite the severity of the sin, you can still repent,
briantheliberal says2015-04-16T22:14:02.5086735-05:00
"For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it." (Jame 2:10). - Did you not see this first verse or..?
Mathgeekjoe says2015-04-16T22:20:15.6103058-05:00
It goes with legal systems, if you don't punish one crime then you become guilty of not fulfilling the entire law. It kind of goes with the same theory that you can say 90% truth and 10% lie, but the entire statement is really a lie.
briantheliberal says2015-04-16T22:27:06.9431954-05:00
We aren't talking about the legal system, we are talking about the Bible. Sin is sin, and all sins will lead you to the same place. You cannot favor one sin over another, especially when that sin has been condemned over the one you single out.
sque132 says2015-04-17T11:53:45.0077575-05:00
I'm sorry but gun shops know without a doubt that some of their guns they have sold have ended up being used to kill innocent people. Even if we look at firearm suicide. Many of those suicides wouldn't have happened without a gun, it's so much easier to pull a trigger than say jump off a bridge or overdose. But do they stop selling? No of course not... It's one thing to buy a gun, but to sell an item which it's sole purpose is to take the life away from someone...That's sick in my eyes.
briantheliberal says2015-04-17T13:08:29.5250114-05:00
Sque132, Thank you for your input and I agree completely. A lot of people in these comments try way too hard to justify this as if it's okay when the same logic is still applied. I just don't understand the logic they use.
sque132 says2015-04-17T14:08:54.9340584-05:00
@brian you're more than welcome :P SO happy to see i'm not alone in this too tbh
Trustmeinlying says2015-04-20T11:03:57.7276065-05:00
1) they are not promoting gun violence 2) what the people do with the guns is their problem 3) the salesman doesn't know what they are going to do with the gun ( self defense, robbery, killing, hunting, ext.) 4) And the christian belief Says protect your family, t'is still a sin but can be forgiven. (look at laws today they are based off of christian belief) In todays law the salesman is not punished because he doesn't know what the person is going to do with the gun. If a man or a woman shoots someone that broke into there house they do not get arrested for it because of self defense (Also if someone breaks into your house you feel threatened so that gives you the right to shoot). You must be ignorant to say that they are promoting gun violence and or supporting it.
briantheliberal says2015-04-21T00:43:23.0322193-05:00
1. They are still selling guns used to promote gun violence. 2. Using that same logic, what people choose to do with the flowers, or cakes they purchase is THEIR decision as well, but you don't see anti-gay florists and bakers thinking that way. 3. They are still able to ASK their customers. 4. The hell does "protecting your family" have to do with gun violence? You must be ignorant to try to justify gun dealers distributing weapons to the public used to kill, injure, and threaten innocent people.
Trustmeinlying says2015-04-21T07:15:18.9630590-05:00
Your telling me that you don't want to defend yourself if someone is trying to rob you (gun violence is involved majority of the time) That you would try to defend yourself with a frying pan if the guy has a gun.
sque132 says2015-04-21T08:40:51.9741313-05:00
They only have a gun because it so damn easy for them to get their hands on them!
sque132 says2015-04-21T09:51:15.2733978-05:00
Over 9000 people are murdered by guns (homicide) in US a year. Thats what, three 9/11s every year? Then there suicide by firearm, accidental and everything else. Which makes up around or over 30,000 a year. Over TEN 9/11's every year to put that in perspective. And you say guns aren't an issue? Here in the uk gun deaths rarely go over 200 a year. Gun murder is only a two figure number! Maybe something to do with people not being able to get guns?
Dilara says2015-04-21T15:27:52.0988638-05:00
Sque132. A cordons to the cdc guns prevent 900,000 crimes a year and 400,000 of those times the person who prevents the crime believed that if not for the gun they would have died. Guns save 400,000 lives a year in America and take 30,000 lives a year. Guns are a tool. They don't make people iill. You need to get rid of the reasons for killing and not the tool used for killing. If you have no gun but still the desire to kill than someone will get killed--with an illegal gun or a nother object. But if you have millions of guns and no desire to kill no one dies.
tajshar2k says2015-04-21T15:35:33.3706858-05:00
Unfortunately, guns are in the market, and criminals have already got their hands on them. So banning them now would do nothing. This should have been done a long time ago...
Mathgeekjoe says2015-04-21T15:37:26.6505468-05:00
"Unfortunately, guns are in the market, and criminals have already got their hands on them. So banning them now would do nothing. This should have been done a long time ago..." You do know that would work either, There is a lot of illegal things that go across our border, banning guns a long time ago wouldn't prevent criminals from getting them.
tajshar2k says2015-04-21T15:38:18.2491155-05:00
We make most of our guns.... Its not like we get them all from Mexico.
tajshar2k says2015-04-21T15:42:48.3090087-05:00
Guns are used to stop criminals from getting what they want, which is why I'm pro Gun Rights, so don't get me wrong.

Freebase Icon   Portions of this page are reproduced from or are modifications based on work created and shared by Google and used according to terms described in the Creative Commons 3.0 Attribution License.

By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use.