Bickering over "human" and "alive" in the abortion debate is pointless.

Posted by: TBR

A zygote -> blastocyst -> embryo -> fetus -> neonate - all alive and part of "homo" genus. Bickering about it makes no difference.

  • Yes

  • No

58% 7 votes
42% 5 votes
  • It is the bottom line that they cannot agree on and why the two sides don't agree, otherwise people wouldn't be so passionate about it. They might agree to disagree at that point because there's no use, it's someone's opinion. Yeah, there is scientific evidence to back up both opinions, but even then people still won't agree with each other. I'm not saying there's no definite answer, there is a definite answer, but people don't have the means to prove what that is yet.

  • Im pro choice but i try not to argue on this point because you end up going in circles and nothing is accomplished for either side.

    Posted by: Stefy
  • It's the most important thing in the debate.

  • There would be no debate if the pro murder gang would admit it, the mass murder of unborn would cease.

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PatriotPerson says2015-06-03T11:22:29.5509470-05:00
Should be in the Opinions
TBR says2015-06-03T11:44:33.5228953-05:00
I am pro-choice, and have no issue calling a zygote, blastocyst, embryo or fetus "alive" or part of the "homo" genus. If I see one more pro-life discussion about "what is it then, a chicken?" I think I will loose my mind. I have never seen a serious debate from pro-choice deny that a fetus is alive and a human-fetus.
Krampus says2015-06-03T13:14:51.6291166-05:00
The reason people feel so passionately about it is that the differences in beliefs decides whether or not you are murdering a human. The pro choice crowd arguments are full of inconsistencies and they only have "facts" that are purely subjective. For instance, they say that a fetus does not count as a person, but if a pregnant woman is murdered, the murder is charged with double homicide. Or if a teenager carries the baby full term and leaves it in a dumpster, she is charged with murder, but if she would have killed it 5 minutes before it was born, everything would have been fine. Any logical person would have to concede that a matter of minutes before or after birth doesn't decide whether that baby is worthy of life or not. For the pro choice crowd, the entire existence of the right to live for the baby depends purely on whether the mother wants it or not, which to be honest is one of the most selfish things you can do. The idea that you could have a 7.5 month old fetus's (which, by the way, could survive a premature birth, so it is more than a "ball of cells") terminated based on whether or not you wanted it is disgusting. What if that was extrapolated to later in life? What if you child is 3 years old and you don't want it? Is it still ok to kill it because you don't want it? How about 2? 1? 2 months? 2 days? 2 mins? 2 minutes before it's born? 3 days before it's born? You see where I'm going with this. Any "rule" that pro choice people say when it is and isn't okay to kill the baby is completely arbitrary and different from even other pro choice people. This makes the rules subjective. Facts are not subjective. Something is either objectively true or it isn't. The pro life group is at least more ideologically consistent, we recognize that you cannot answer the question of when exactly life begins, so it's better to be safe and protect the baby at all stages of development. I actually used to be pro choice when I was younger, and I would imagine most of the pro choicers on this site are too, but then I grew up and developed the belief that people are responsible for their own lives and you must live with the consequences of the choices you make in life. Before someone says "What about women who are raped or their health is compromised by being pregnant?" you need to understand that women who were raped or their health would be compromised by carrying the baby make up around 1% of abortions that were performed. It is a very weak argument to suggest that your views of what should be done about it depend on only 1% of instances. If you truly do not want the baby, do not abort, there are plenty of families out there who cannot conceive and are willing to adopt. Instead of ending your baby's life, let it have a fulfilled life with someone who wants him/her.
TBR says2015-06-03T15:35:12.2267770-05:00
@Krampus - All your arguments run counter to the body autonomy concept. Regardless, the abortion debate does NOT hing on a fetus being "alive" or a "human fetus". This is a consistent pro-life straw-man.
Najs says2015-06-04T02:05:26.5169602-05:00
@Krampus, I truly must commend you on your post! That was the best argument in relations to abortion. Here's a quote I read the other day: "If you want to be pro-choice, choose to close your legs." I could not have agreed more with this statement. True, rape victims and the risk of the woman's life makes up a very small percentage of abortions. To be truly pro-choice, think first and not after, be responsible and clamp your legs shut.
Dilara says2015-06-04T16:03:54.2383475-05:00
So when is a person a person? Does personhood began when your born? In that case a 9 month old fetus who is viable outside the womb and can feel pain and recognize their moms voice isn't a person. In that case a ) inch journeys down the birth canal makes you a person. 6 inches. Does personhood began when the fetus is viable outside the womb witch is at 20 weeks ( get most premature birth in the world was at 20 weeks)? In witch case a 19 week old fetus who can feel pain wouldn't be considered a human? If life begins when one is Viable outside the womb and doesn't depend on someone else to live I guess sick and injured people who depend on doctors and ventilators or the use of someone else's organ aren't people. If personhood begins when the fetus has self awareness than a person in a coma who isn't self aware isn't a person. You can't look at a 12 week sonogram of a baby with it's finger nails and tiny head and say that it's just a clump of cells.
TBR says2015-06-04T16:36:22.7887727-05:00
@Dilara - Person or person-hood are loose terms. The poll is about "alive" and part of the "homo" genus. This was a response to yet again seeing a pro-life person say "if its not human, then what is it, a carrot?"

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