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42 Total Votes
1

Capitalism

Capitalism is an economic system in which trade, industry, and the means of production are controlled by private owners with the goal of making profits in a market economy. Central characteristics of capitalism include capital accumulation, competit... ive markets and wage labor. In a capitalist economy, the parties to a transaction typically determine the prices at which assets, goods, and services are exchanged.The degree of competition, role of intervention and regulation, and scope of public ownership varies across different models of capitalism. Economists, political economists, and historians have taken different perspectives in their analysis of capitalism and recognized various forms of it in practice. These include laissez-faire capitalism, welfare capitalism and state capitalism; each highlighting varying degrees of dependency on markets, public ownership, and inclusion of social policies. The extent to which different markets are free, as well as the rules defining private property, is a matter of politics and policy. Many states have what are termed capitalist mixed economies, referring to a mix between planned and market-driven elements. Crony capitalism, is a state of affairs in which insider corruption, nepotism and cartels dominate the system. In Marxian economics this is considered to be the normal state of mature capitalism, while in anarcho-capitalist theory it is considered a political distortion of capital and markets   more
31 votes
7 comments
2

Communism

Communism is a socioeconomic system structured upon common ownership of the means of production and characterised by the absence of classes, money, and the state; as well as a social, political and economic ideology and movement that aims to establi... sh this social order. The movement to develop communism, in its Marxist–Leninist interpretations, significantly influenced the history of the 20th century, which saw intense rivalry between the Communist states in the Eastern bloc and the most developed capitalist states of the Western world.Communism was first developed into a scientific theory by German philosopher and social scientist Karl Marx, and the collective understanding of this scientific approach is today commonly referred to as Marxism. In the Marxist understanding, communism is the endpoint of human social evolution which will inevitably come into fruition through economic and social advances in socialism. Socialism, being the new order established after the demise of capitalism, is herein characterized by the working class having state power and undertaking the process of abolishing capitalist property and economic relations and establishing social ownership and management of society's political, economic, and cultural institutions. In accordance with the socialized processes of production, appropriation also becomes socialized as goods and services become consumed on a social basis with free access for the individual. Communism becomes fully realized when the distinction between classes is no longer possible and therefore the state, which has been used as an instrument of class dictatorship, no longer exists. In the communist economy, production and consumption are fully socialized, and the processes for which are advanced into maximized automation, efficiency, and recycling. This results in the end of individual money calculation, hence relationships between individuals being based on free association and free access to all goods and services according to need   more
11 votes
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writesout says2014-04-30T18:25:07.7481115-05:00
I agree with both sides in a way, because the right kind of economy depends on how you run your country. I go with communism because in the end, it's all about community and the sharing of resources.
Installgentoo says2014-04-30T18:32:40.2418068-05:00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_DaMKUP3Og.
SemperVI says2014-04-30T19:55:24.9180619-05:00
Communism will never prevail in the United States. The closet commie leftest here don't have the nerve or stomach to fight that war and the ones they would be fighting do have the nerve and stomach to fight that war. We have proved it throughout our history. In the US, the commies are to cowardly to even admit they are commies in public.
ChrisF says2014-04-30T19:58:14.9014533-05:00
^ Has a point there, the most leftist politicians in the US are too scared of being called socialist to actually do anything that will make a change. I could share some pretty sad facts about the US that a socialist government would never allow to happen.
SNP1 says2014-04-30T20:08:22.1782533-05:00
Funny how Christians tend to hate communism in almost every way. http://videosift.com/blog/jwray/20-reasons-jesus-was-a-communist-pacifist-tax-and-spend-liberal
SemperVI says2014-04-30T20:14:31.4712619-05:00
@SNP1: Perhaps its because communist governments have a habit of killing them off and anyone else who believes in God...
SNP1 says2014-04-30T20:27:16.4952619-05:00
Except that there has yet to be a single communist government that practices true communism. True communism has NO real government, it is, in a way, a form of anarchy.
SemperVI says2014-04-30T20:35:23.6734533-05:00
But the historical record of communism tells an entirely different story. The scourge of the socialist revolution around the world gave us 6 million people killed by artificial famines in Ukraine and, as documented by The Black Book of Communism, 20 million victims in the U.S.S.R., 65 million in China, a million in Vietnam, 2 million in North Korea, another 2 million in Cambodia, a million more in the rest of Eastern Europe, 150,000 in Latin America, 1.7 million in Africa, 1.5 million in Afghanistan and through the international Communist movement and related parties about 100,000 more victims in various nations. This is a body count that reaches to 100 million victims worldwide. Communism completely destroyed the economy, social fabric, and political culture of dozens of nations. It hollowed out the intelligentsia, ruined every economy where the seed of socialism fully “bloomed,” and abrogated fundamental rights and individual freedoms of the nations it subjugated. Clearly the Judeo-Christian commandment, “Thou shalt not kill,” is not among the doctrinal teachings of communism and the socialist revolution. It is hard to believe that the socialist revolution—unlike Nazism—still finds promoters, defenders and apologists in the West. Save the "True communism" pitch for the impressionable freshman girls and boys who don't know snit about the world we live in. True communism is a killer parasite that feeds off it's own off spring. The communism you speak of does not exist and never will.
SNP1 says2014-04-30T20:37:00.4870906-05:00
Again, not real communism. That is Leninism (a form of government that gives communism a bad name). True communism and your historic "communism" are not the same thing
SemperVI says2014-04-30T20:38:29.0112619-05:00
Tell that to the 100 million corpses left behind in the name of "communism"
ChrisF says2014-04-30T20:39:31.3800619-05:00
Leninism is fine, Stalinism gave Leninism a bad name, which Leninism transferred to Marxism, which gave that to Socialism, etc.
DeeAnn says2014-04-30T20:48:23.2073764-05:00
Communism and Capitalism both have it's faults, but communism only takes one guy to screw up (the dictator-dude) to collapse while capitalism requires a collective collapse.
ChrisF says2014-04-30T20:49:09.9840619-05:00
Capitalism =/= Democracy. There are capitalist dictatorships too.
SemperVI says2014-04-30T20:50:52.4448619-05:00
@ChrisF: Leninism is fine? Really - Vladimir Ilich Lenin ordered the execution of 30,000 political dissidents - in other words, people who disagreed with him... This is fine to you? You have been drinking to much public school kool aid son. Stalin's purges were not contrary to the principles of Leninism, but rather a natural consequence of the system established by Vladimir Lenin, who as indicated above, personally ordered the killing of local groups of class enemy hostages. Alexander Yakovlev, architect of perestroika and glasnost and later head of the Presidential Commission for the Victims of Political Repression, elaborates on this point, stating that "The truth is that in punitive operations Stalin did not think up anything that was not there under Lenin: executions, hostage taking, concentration camps, and all the rest." Historian Robert Gellately concurs, saying: "To put it another way, Stalin initiated very little that Lenin had not already introduced or previewed." Said Lenin to his colleagues in the Bolshevik government: "If we are not ready to shoot a saboteur and White Guardist, what sort of revolution is that?" Read: Ray, Barry (2007). "FSU professor's 'Lenin, Stalin, and Hitler' sheds new light on three of the 20th century's bloodiest rulers" http://www.Fsu.Edu/news/2007/09/11/gellately.Book/
SemperVI says2014-04-30T20:58:29.6028619-05:00
CAPITALISM is NOT a form of government. It is an economic system and to some degree a social system. Comparing communism to capitalism is a straw mans argument. Its the only weak argument to make. Show some gnards and compare and contrast Communism to a Democracy.
TheRussian says2014-04-30T21:50:22.2217305-05:00
Real communism has pretty much never been practiced. @Semper, stop bringing stereotypical American ideals to the table. "the commie don't have the nerve" "commies are too cowardly" That's not even a real argument. Communists don't "kill off everyone who believes in God". Communism isn't a form of government. You can't compare it to a democracy.
ChrisF says2014-04-30T21:53:33.1368619-05:00
Also, if your idea that all "communist" governments kill anyone who believes in a god or gods, that would mean the entire non-atheist population of Russia should be dead by now. That would mean that the Soviets killed 107,775,000 of their own people, which I think would be pretty easy to notice.
SemperVI says2014-04-30T22:01:59.2765305-05:00
I'll bring what I want to the table Russia. Don't attack me, attack my weakling arguments if you can. Typical commie tactic - promise utopia, right before your put a left boot on my neck. Nothing I said is inaccurate - you saying it is without backing it up is meaningless and without merit.
Seido says2014-04-30T22:07:14.0712619-05:00
OK, few things here. Firstly, @Semper, it was not Communism itself that caused the tragedies of the 20th century. It was the fact that the leaders of those Communist parties were corrupt. You can take a look at pretty much anything and find a version of it that was so corrupted that it had horrible results. Look at the "democracy" in Iraq, for example. Communism in and of itself is just a form of economics. And to everyone else, you're right, a true form of Communism has never been practiced; however, no true form of Communism has been or ever will be practical. As I said in my argument for Capitalism up above, proper Communism cannot truly succeed if it exists in a flawed world. The world that we live in and the societies within it are extremely flawed, and therefore are unable to sustain a true form of Communism without it resulting in the tragedies that occurred in such places as Russia and China.
SemperVI says2014-04-30T22:10:34.0213995-05:00
@ChrisF: State atheism in the Soviet Union was known as gosateizm, and was based on the ideology of Marxism–Leninism. As the founder of the Soviet state, V. I. Lenin, put it: Religion is the opium of the people: this saying of Marx is the cornerstone of the entire ideology of Marxism about religion. All modern religions and churches, all and of every kind of religious organizations are always considered by Marxism as the organs of bourgeois reaction, used for the protection of the exploitation and the stupefaction of the working class. Marxist–Leninist atheism has consistently advocated the control, suppression, and elimination of religion. Within about a year of the revolution, the state expropriated all church property, including the churches themselves, and in the period from 1922 to 1926, 28 Russian Orthodox bishops and more than 1,200 priests were killed. Many more were persecuted. The religious... Uh, wait let me re phrase that for you - the "non-atheist" as you like to call it went under ground for their own welfare.
SNP1 says2014-04-30T22:20:04.4148619-05:00
SemperVI, you are NOT attacking TRUE communism. True communism is a type of ANARCHY. You are attacking totalitarian socialist countries that have the word communism attached to them.
SemperVI says2014-04-30T22:30:48.4296619-05:00
Okay Seido, allow me to try on your argument to see if it still squares with the premise of your logic? "OK, few things here. Firstly, @Seido, it was not Nazism itself that caused the tragedies of the 20th century. It was the fact that the leaders of those Fascist parties were corrupt. " So using this logic, National Socialism and Fascism were not to blame for WW2 and the Holocaust. It was Hitler and Mussolini that is to blame and all that politicking and forms of government had nothing to do with it. I don't think so. Secondly, the problem I have with the adage "Communism in and of itself is just a form of economics." is that it requires the state to control the economy, ergo, it is more than an economic system. It is a form of governance. Hence the term "Communist Party". Do you know anyone who is in the "Capitalist Party"? Have you ever heard of the Capitalist Party? No - and the reason why is because it is purely an economic system.
ChrisF says2014-04-30T22:32:24.9468619-05:00
No, as a key part of Nazism is white supremacy, while Marx never said anything about killing religious people
Seido says2014-04-30T22:39:29.3136619-05:00
Firstly, Communism itself IS an economic system. Why is there no capitalist party? Because the views of capitalists are already reflected in the two major parties; the democrats and the republicans. Communism is all about the government having control over the market while capitalism is about the government keeping its hands off of economics. While they are entirely opposite approaches, they are still both economic system. The ONLY reason why Communism is associated with all of the crap of the Communist Parties within Russia and China are because the people leading the two parties were radicals that weren't just seeking economic reform, but an entire reconstruction of their countries, their social classes, and so forth. Had Lenin and Stalin simply worked towards a Communist Russia, they wouldn't have killed so many people. What led them to killing people was the fact that they weren't just creating a Communist nation, but the fact that they were turning it into an authoritarian state. The Nazi party, on the other hand, had a broad range of goals. They were white supremacists who wanted to, in essence, conquer the world and wipe out all other races. They were not just trying to change the economic systems of their countries, but to change the entire way things worked. In the end, FASCISM was what caused these tragedies, not Communism.
SemperVI says2014-04-30T22:40:50.8236619-05:00
No ChrisF, thats neo nazi, The key to Nazism was ultra national pride, scientific racism and antisemitism and I never said Marx said anything about killing people. But that is exactly how his words have been interpreted.
Semi1114 says2014-05-01T17:26:39.7502479-05:00
I agree both systems combined. If there is one by itself, it will fail. A perfect system is one in the middle
Chimera says2014-05-01T18:28:09.8179661-05:00
@SemperVI You do realize that communism as envisioned by Marx and Engels is stateless right? The only reason communist parties formed is because they were actually socialist parties who were giving people a false promise of a system that actually works. Using the Engelian idea of State Atrophy, and the Leninist idea of the inclusion of a vanguard party, to justify their harsh dictatorships. Countries like the USSR never claimed to be communist, they claimed to be socialist states. Also, Marx advocated for a 'dictatorship of the proletariat', not the dictatorship of a power-hungry bureaucrat like Stalin. If anything, Marx would have been disgusted with the USSR. Other communist thinkers like Kropotkin were revolted by the system Lenin supported.
SemperVI says2014-05-01T18:53:57.2006479-05:00
@Chimera: You actually believe Marx' vision was stateless? What part of dictatorship of proletariat do you not understand? This is not a stateless authority? Quite the contrary, it is a is a working/industrial class form of government where political authority is monopolized by a single person or political party, and exercised through various oppressive mechanisms. Once the "working class" take control they are no longer working class. They become the very thing they thing they are eliminating. Your lefty college professor has brainwashed you into thinking it is something it is not. This is how communist regimes gain a political foot hold. The false promise you describe is precisely communist. This idea that communism is all flowers, unicorns and blue skies is a fantasy. Your Utopia does not and can not exist as long as people are independent minded. The world is not a collective and there will always be people who refuse to be assimilated. Communists kill the people who think like this because they threaten the very foundation of this idea that is counter intuitive to human nature. Do you really want to live under a government that does this?
Chimera says2014-05-01T19:23:47.2880917-05:00
@SemperVI Here, let me clarify. A 'dictatorship of the proletariat' is not a dictatorship of the working class, this would indicate that there is still class, however, communism is classless. What a 'dictatorship of the proletariat' is, is a dictatorship of all people. A horizontally organized society, possibly even more open and free than the idea of democracy. If anything, communism is an anarchist idea. The idea of communism is not 'assimilation'. All communism is, is a system of socio-economics that is meant to replace capitalism when it collapses. You keep equating communism to the USSR, when they never even claimed to be communist. They were socialist states, and even I can admit that centrally planned economies will never work in a humanitarian sense. Where communism is more about abolishing and withering away the government, socialism (to an extent) is about making the government more powerful, which is exactly what us communists don't want. Also, I love how you mention the millions that Stalin and Mao kill inside their farce version of communism, but you fail to mention all the hundreds of millions that were killed, raped, and displaced that state run capitalist (mercantilist) countries like Spain, Portugal, Britain, etc. killed during the colonization of the Americas.
Installgentoo says2014-05-01T20:00:45.5582479-05:00
SNP1, I thought you believe Jesus didn't exist.

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