Conservatives, do You Think Sitting Down During the National Anthem is Unpatriotic?

Posted by: reece

How about flying confederate flags?

  • Yes I do

  • No I don't

64% 18 votes
36% 10 votes
  • Unless you're either too young to understand it or you're wheelchair bound or something like that, or unless nobody else is standing up (I.e. a social occasion where standing for the anthem is not the expected behavior).

  • Unpatriotic, yes. Un-American, no. I'm definitely against it, though I do support someone's right to.

  • RESPECT WE ARE LOOSING THIS AS A COUNTRY, AT FIRST IT STARTED BY DISRESPECTING OUR ELDERS, NEXT KIDS ARE BEATING THEIR PARENTS UP, GENERAL RESPECT IS NOT BEING TAUGHT

  • Would I say unpatriotic? Yes. UnAmerican? No. In America, you have that right. That does not mean I won't think you are a crappy person. We all have the right to think, say, and express what we believe in.

  • Voted by accident.

    Posted by: reece
  • I genuinely don't care about my country. I care about the people I meet that happen to live in it, but not the country as a whole. I tend not to sing the national anthem because of that. I'm proud that our laws are humane, but the country didn't do that.. people did. People that happened to be born here.

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Swagnarok says2017-08-21T03:45:53.7773061Z
You equate flying the Confederate flag with loyalty to the former Confederacy, and by extension with disloyalty to the United States. Others see it differently: nobody is *just* a citizen of the United States but also a resident of an individual state within the union, especially if you were born, grew up in, and lived much of your life in a single local area. To fly the Confederate flag is to commemorate history, to fight back against those who demonize every person associated with the Confederacy, no matter for what reason they fought against the Northern government. Many (probably most) Greybacks didn't own slaves, and many of them were pro-slavery simply because they felt the anti-slavery camp hated their homeland (in a time when many, many people identified more closely with their home state and region more than with the idea of an continental union of states, especially in a time when transportation and communication across several states could take days or even weeks) and, to be fair, out of a fear of an uncertain future where blacks had equal political and social status with whites, and where they voted in such a great Whig/Republican voting as to effectively eliminate the political standing of southern whites in national and state-level affairs. Even today you see people standing up for causes they wouldn't otherwise believe in because of its strong correlation something they're loyal to (see Republicans downplaying the Russia allegations because of its connection to Trump, even though they otherwise don't like Russia very much). Robert E. Lee was a slave owner and he was a moderate supporter of the institution of slavery, but his motivation for taking up arms against the Union was out of loyalty to his home state of Virginia. Even if the slave-owning elites called the shots, and manipulated the average guy into defending it, the average guy who fought for the Confederacy was a hero because he mainly fought for his homeland, and Left-Wing historical revisionism in this matter is disgusting. It's mainly a matter of pride, and probably 90% of people who fly the Dixie flag wouldn't be doing so if not for the "OMG we must tear down all the Robert E. Lee statues" camp. In this context, it isn't an expression of loyalty to another government and another country, so it isn't necessarily unpatriotic.
Swagnarok says2017-08-21T03:49:56.1092595Z
*Whig/Republican voting bloc
reece says2017-08-21T04:47:21.4474620Z
Swagnarok, your mental gymnastics is astounding. I wonder what else you would bend over backwards for.
Swagnarok says2017-08-21T21:34:43.0077275Z
If it's bending over backwards to come to any conclusion other than "OMG Evil Racists!" then so be it.
reece says2017-08-21T22:24:48.8349955Z
Rascism isn't evil?
reece says2017-08-21T22:25:51.8905997Z
Racism*
Swagnarok says2017-08-21T23:20:56.5689834Z
Southerners before and during the Civil War didn't think slavery was evil, any more than people who lived 500 years ago thought denying women the right to own property was. Are we going to damn the memory of every historical person who wasn't a perfect progressive?
Swagnarok says2017-08-21T23:23:55.7361319Z
And to be clear, there were few whites who lived at the time of the Civil War who thought blacks should be entirely equal with whites. Are we going to condemn them too? How about Abraham Lincoln? He wasn't adamantly opposed to slavery so much as he was a moderate abolitionist. Are we going to condemn him too?
Swagnarok says2017-08-21T23:25:19.6802700Z
Most modern people don't take the species identities of furries and lizardkin seriously. Will all of us be condemned by future generations?
triangle.128k says2017-08-21T23:28:52.1417836Z
You're a filthy traitor either way
Swagnarok says2017-08-21T23:29:42.6396310Z
And also to be clear, at the time of the Civil War (and before then, and especially before the rise of big industrial cities) free blacks in America had hardly any opportunities in life besides being a subsistence farmer/pauper. By the standards of that day, was the life of a slave really all that worse off?
reece says2017-08-21T23:49:07.9942258Z
Who's we? Why would I condemn whites who lived during the Civil War for thinking blacks are their equal? I wouldn't condemn them for that. Let's go to an extreme example. I wouldn't condemn Hitler for caring about animals and being a vegetarian. I would however condemn him for all the atrocities he committed. But by your logic, he isn't as bad as the next guy. You're an enabler.
Spiffy-Gonzalez says2017-08-21T23:50:13.8578480Z
Swagnarok, tell it like it is dude.
reece says2017-08-21T23:53:36.7683487Z
Swagnarok, I agree with Spiffy-Gonzalez. Speak your mind and embrace who you are so I know who I'm truly talking to.
reece says2017-08-22T00:16:49.8416786Z
He isn't worse than the next guy* I was meant to say.
ZachZimmey says2017-08-22T01:47:35.0097833Z
The civil war wasn't about racism. It was about slavery. Racism was merely a tool used to further slavery.
reece says2017-08-22T02:11:23.1833382Z
ZachZimmey, it was the appendage that held it in place. It was more than just a tool.
levi_smiles says2017-08-23T04:03:13.8885411Z
Why address conservatives only unless the poll is designed to elicit a controlled result?
reece says2017-08-23T05:12:06.7606337Z
Levi_smiles, I'm just seeing if the results hold true. Although I love a surprise.
XxsonyaxX says2017-08-23T14:18:31.9068564Z
This poll bullies people into saying "No" by labeling them racist if they dare saying "yes". This is obviously bias and stupid. And yes; sitting down during the National Anthem is definitely unpatriotic (unless physically unable to). Typical liberal.
reece says2017-08-23T14:53:24.2743293Z
Well hey there cutie. I must suck at bullying.
XxsonyaxX says2017-08-23T14:56:43.5656068Z
That couldn't be the only thing you suck at...
Spiffy-Gonzalez says2018-01-15T07:29:46.9371901Z
(South fought for slavery) no, they didn't. The army consisted of individuals who had never owned slaves in their family. The argument that it somehow gave them status is irrelevant; millions didn't like slavery because it threw the job market AWAY from whites. The union had 4 slave states (which we only consider border states due to them having slavery). New York almost went into a revolt against the war and the north had to put them down. And all that aside, the northerners were drawing up the corwin amendment which would have made slavery legal permanently, this was before the war. If slavery was the big chip off the block all the south would've needed to do was rejoin the union. (Ag vs factories) bullshit. The northerners were still mostly farmers. True, they did have MORE factors than the south, however this was by and large NOT the standard way of life. (Well, it ended slavery.) No, it did not. Slavery continued for an additional 10 years after the civil war. Individual militias allowed the state's to run as before until armed troops could reach individual towns. (Well, the south would've kept if the war didn't happen) I could easily make the same point about child labor in the north. The two difference is Slaves were fed, clothed, housed, and under extreme owners beaten while a child worker could only buy one loaf of bread after a full days work, and they were beaten more often than slaves were. Actually slavery ending WHEN it did is unfortunate because many slaves starved to death in northern cities that would refuse to hire a black man. Most slaves still worked the plantation their whole lives, except now most places they used to live were destroyed and most places they could get to would not hire them. A sudden stop in slavery is far worse than a gradual end. (Southerners wanted a white government) so? They weren't killing off blacks or shipping them to Africa like Lincoln wanted. They just wanted to bring in more whites to maintain a majority in a nation they founded. If you think that's racist somehow than consider the Indians who wanted the exact same thing. Modern day war crimes were committed by both sides, torture included. Many laws that our founders fought for were removed such as habeas corpus in the north and gun laws in certain cities in the south. The crimes of the north were invasion, child labor, unfair voting and taxing against the south, forcing blacks to the front line, burning southern homes, thousands of cases of rape, and forcing slaves to become soldiers at gunpoint. The crimes of the south are slavery, leaving a democratic government because they did not like the outcome of a vote, unfair trade against the north, many cases of looting corpses, and breaking it's own constitution. Demonize both or neither, not one or the other. In reality the north fought to maintain the union set up by our forefathers and the south sought to achieve independence from a government they felt was tyrannical. Both are honorable causes, which is why both flags are allowed to shown, both militaries are to be honored, and both nations are to be remembered. NONE OF THIS ARGUMENT HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE POLL

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