Not to mention, his view of Social Darwinism was entirely flawed. He targeted groups that he wanted to target and killed them. They did not die naturally from their own survival instincts, they were murdered by chemicals and machines. That is not Social Darwinism at all.
Brian, Atheism is the idea that there is no deity. However, the overwhelming majority of atheists agree that life was created via evolution ( the ideas are often integrated together) Christians do not all have the same belief system, other than Jesus Christ is the son of God, does that mean we do not have a religion? No, Hitler's view on social Darwinism was spot on. The definition is "a sociological theory that sociocultural advance is the product of intergroup conflict and competition and the socially elite classes (as those possessing wealth and power) possess biological superiority in the struggle for existence" Hitler exterminated the socially inferior ( Jews, Slavs, commies, and Gypsies) and hoisted up the Aryan race as the elite class over all others. Also, many of the European social Darwinists wanted to play out such changes via eugenics and extermination. Also, the theory never really says how the inferior must die, all it says is that the superior rise via conflict. How the conflict was conducted was up to the user. So yeah, Hitler practiced social Darwinism. And you never really touched down on how he told his closest advisory that he HATED Christianity.
Discomifting: he grew up in a christian household, that means nothing. Bill Maher was raised a catholic and look were he stands now! He claimed he was a christian in a couple of speeches he made to a prominently religious country. As we all know, politicians never lie :) Positive Christianity was a nazified version of Christianity Hitler intended to use in order to control the German catholic church and it's supporters. It does not matter if a majority of the people whom supported him were christian, most people were back then anyways. Perhaps you need to revisit your history on the matter discomfiting.
Labarum, I don't think you know what Social Darwinism even is... Darwinism, when referring to evolution, mainly refers to natural selection, in which faulty or inferior genes were eliminated from the gene pool over time through reproduction. The Germans manipulated this theory to further their own fascist agenda based on their own beliefs of biological superiority of Aryan people, believing that one is born inherently inferior because of their cultural heritage. To say that Hitler's view of the theory was "spot on" would mean the the idea that Jew, Gypsies, Slavs, homosexuals and communists being inferior is an accurate claim, which it is not. The Nazi idea of what is superior is not scientifically supported, therefore it is not valid. And there is no evidence that he hated Christianity, but there are plenty of quotes in which he openly supports the Abrahamic belief system and even identifies himself as devout follower of Catholicism. He even justified his extermination of Jews with Christianity.
Laughing at it because it's just moronic; social Darwinism doesn't imply an theological belief. Charles Darwin was not an atheist; he grew up as a Christian and as he grew older he became fixated on the Problem of Evil and was a self-declared agnostic. Agnosticism and atheism are not the same thing. & Pretty sure Adam Smith is one of the most notorious for creating capitalism. I'm laughing at the fact you think he hated Christianity; he didn't hate Christianity or Christians; look up Positive Christianity. It's a movement of Christianity mixed with Nazi ideology that hitler supported and which was a massive part of the NAZI party platform. He hated and waged war against Catholicism and Protestantism because they were not Christians. You act like his adviser's word is any more credible than any other human being's words. Just because Hitler's "closest adviser" said so, doesn't mean it makes it so. There's a bunch of "closest" supports that claim he was true to his religion. You can go on and on about your conspiracy theories about how Hitler was an Atheist and wanted to wipe the world of religion/Christianity but the facts that he wrapped Christianity around the Nazi party with Positive Christianity, went to church/prayed a lot, had soldiers use belts that said "god with us", rallied against the atheism movement, was a self-identified Christian, and the list literally goes on and on that say he was a Christian.
I have something to add... WHO THE HELL CARES!?! If he was an atheist, he didn't do it in the name of atheism. Social Darwinism doesn't require you to be atheist, and it isn't atheistic. I hate Christianity, but I don't hate Christians. In fact, I hate religion. I'm not going to go out and commit genocide, or kill anyone or harm anyone for that matter. I think religion has done way more harm than good. Have you even read the Bible? It is absolutely horrid! In fact, by your logic I could say he was doing his acts in the name of Yahweh. It says to kill people that do not follow that religion, and atheists. Even if you don't commit these vile acts, you still accept them and think your god is LOVING??? You would have to be brain dead to believe that! In fact, by your logic, you should be happy Hitler did what he did, because he was killing people of another religion! Even though it was Abrahamic, it is still a different religion than Christianity. Lets say he was atheist, so what? Christian, so what? Jewish, so what? Muslim, so what? Hindu, so what? Buddhist, so what? Black, white, or yellow, so what? What matters is the acts he did and why he did them. If he did them in the name of paper clips we wouldn't say that that ALWAYS led to genocide. I guess that is comparing apples to oranges a little, so let us say this.Does the Bible command horrid things? YES. Does atheism command horrid things? NO. Atheism is simply not having the belief in a god. It has nothing to do with anything except that SINGLE position on a SINGLE proposition. It has nothing to do with politics or anything else. Good day.
Brian, I just gave you the literal definition of social Darwinism. Since I don't think you quite have your mind wrapped around it yet, I will post it again. "a sociological theory that sociocultural advance is the product of intergroup conflict and competition and the socially elite classes (as those possessing wealth and power) possess biological superiority in the struggle for existence" It is right here in order for you to read ( please do) As you can see quite clearly that the means for conflict among social class is NOT listed and therefore can be interpenetrated in however the reader perceives it. There was no manipulation needed as they could interperate this however they pleased. The Nazis happened to think that Jews and what not were the inferior races. I do not agree that these groups are inferior, however, Hitler's view on social Darwinism was spot on, meaning he preformed all the necessary requirements in order for this to be counted as social Darwinism. I am getting tired of telling you this. The Nazi view of superiority was supported by scientific evidence on the basis of genetics ( many geneticists at the time agreed and still do that there were differences in the races) the Nazis viewed the all of said races as inferior because of said genetic differences. I do not share such contempt for other races but I do recognize genetic differences. Joseph Goebbels, head of propaganda in Germany and close advisory of Hitler, wrote down in his memoirs that Hitler HATED CHRISTIANITY. Goebbels diaries, look them up. Hitler did publicly say that he was a christian and what not, but than he said in the private company of friends that he hated Christianity. Could it be that, and stay with me here, Hitler, a politician, lied to the public in order to gain support!?
Labrum what you are talking about is basically eugenics. The US had eugenics as well to a lesser extreme. We had HORRIBLE mental facilities where we put people that were "different" where they suffered for no one to love them and sometimes they were even killed and/or tortured. We put women who didn't want to get married there (crazy right)? And you want to know something? By your logic this is social darwinism, and since the US is mostly christian, and the mental facilities were run mostly by christians, we can, by your logic, say that they were doing social darwinism. But you know what? WE DON'T MAKE THAT AS A CASE TO SAY THAT CHRISTIANS ARE BAD! I am sorry, but your logic is absolutely flawed. Sorry for the punctuation flaws i really don't c are about it over the internet.
Iabarum Many Americans in the late 19th century were social darwinists, and it was a widely promoted idea in the ideology of Taylorism. A lot of wealthy people used it to justify their money. They were almost all Christians. Additionally, you are completely misunderstanding the definition of Social Darwinism. The idea actually means that it will determine the relative 'class' of a person. It in no way invokes genocide or even murder. It is not survival of the fittest, it is success of the fittest. Social darwinism is supposed to be a natural effect in its implication of 'intergroup conflict.' Ultimately you simply fail to understand what sociocultural means. Here is the definition: of, relating to, or involving a combination of social and cultural factors. That means social status. Not life/death.
All of the above. His grandmother was Jewish, hid parents were Christian, and he self identified as an atheist. While the Nazis followed some Christian practices, they were more or less an Atheist group.
"Social Darwinism isn't an atheist view? You mean that the strong survive and the weak die is not atheist? Even though the very idea was pitched and endorsed by the most famous atheist ever."
Charles Darwin wasn't an atheist, and he neither pioneered nor condoned social Darwinism. The theory actually came after his time, and to attribute his work to the racists and fascists who misused it is a filthy slander. Now, the Catholic church preached for centuries that Jews as a people were guilty of deicide, the crime of killing God. This was the justification HItler used in Mein Kampf, where he explained how he was doing God's bidding by exterminating the Jews. His first treaty was with the Vatican, who celebrated his birthday and never condemned him, his subordinates, or the holocaust. Lastly, Hitler mandated that a reference to God should be placed on the belt buckle of every SS officer.
"Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery…. …. When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let’s be the only people who are immunised against the disease". Adolf Hitler, Monologe im Führerhauptquartier 1941-1944. Published by Orbis Verlag, Hamburg, Approved Special Edition in 2000. Pages 118-119.
It seems as if though every one who voted that he was a christian tries to ignore the first hand accounts from people whom knew Hitler best that said he detested Christianity, and focus more on a book and a few speeches he did to a public of strangers.
Labarum: Really? How about THIS firsthand account? "Without doubt the chancellor lives in faith in God. He recognizes Christianity as the foundation of Western culture."
-Cardinal Faulhaber [quoted from Helmreich, p.279].
"Really? How about THIS firsthand account? "Without doubt the chancellor lives in faith in God. He recognizes Christianity as the foundation of Western culture."" That's pretty much irrelevant. Just because he told some of his closest advisors doesn't mean to told all of his close advisors. He probably wanted that particular person to believe that he was indeed a Christian, or that person was saying it to someone they wanted to fool... There isn't a contradiction here Snp1.
Fanath: Scholar Richard Carrier talks about that quote of yours, "For example, one oft-repeated quote comes from 13 December 1941: "But Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery" (Stevens and Cameron's English, again matching Genoud's French verbatim). But the original German says, "Christianity teaches 'transubstantiation,' which is the maddest thing ever concocted by a human mind in its delusions, a mockery of all that is godly." The difference in meaning here is radical, and again shows how Genoud (hence the Trevor-Roper translation) has distorted Hitler's criticism of one form of Christianity (which implies he believed there was a true Christianity) into a thoroughly anti-Christian sentiment." http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/1432747?uid=3739784&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21104096759807 The anti-Christian quotes of Hitler's were not translated from the German Documents, they were usually translated from poorly translated French documents. Hitler was a Christian.
Monologe im Führerhauptquartier is a book written by Germans. The quote was taken from hitters secretary, not French documents. There is literally no evidence to suggest that it was taken from somewhere else...
Well actually Hitler said "I shall remain a Catholic forever" in 1941 and said he would "Hunt down the Atheist movement" soo I mean maybe he wasn't christian in the end but his party was and he definitely hated atheists as he went out of his way to use valuable police resources to kill them..... The SS belt buckles also said "Gott mit uns" on them which is "God is with us" so I really doubt that he was an atheist let alone liked them? How did this poll get started I thought this was common knowledge? Somebody needs a history lesson it seems
I mean his movement 'NAZI" was openly christian and said that what they did was God's work.... NAZI is a fascist party so how could you possibly get atheism out of a man whose first treaty was with a pope he went out of his way to please?
Hitler being an atheist is something that started well after ww2 was over as a very popular argument to use against atheists so I guess that is what this is based off. Also what does social Darwinism have do with having no religion? This idea also has nothing to do with Darwinic thinking as it applies to a field of science which has nothing to do with "the strongest survive". Natural selection as proposed by Darwin has to do with the most adapted to the environment which will often kill off stronger beings. I mean really where did this come from, didn't you take history in high school?
Actually, he and his Nazi followers were trying to instill a new religion in Germany using the old German myths like Oden and Thor. They had all kinds of nutty "rituals" they were promoting to cement their power over the people.
@Charliedub: Shockingly, people will lie to get in power. Just because someone said something doesn't mean it's true. It's been *proven* that he told the public he was a Christian, (As you already pointed out). Likewise, it has been proven that Hitler told some of his closest advisors that he planned to destroy the religion afterwards and that he hated the religion. Your point is refuted.