Do you believe gender wage gap has truly something to do with discrimination against women ?

Posted by: stephannoi

Vote
67 Total Votes
1

No

53 votes
17 comments
2

Yes

14 votes
3 comments
Leave a comment...
(Maximum 900 words)
stephannoi says2017-01-27T13:21:28.1982979Z
Speaking from humanist perspective,I believe that we are already equally protected through non discrimination law so feminist has nothing to fight for equality.
ghostrecon says2017-01-27T14:59:28.0339918Z
@ stephannoi It depends on circumstances whether gender wage gap could be justified as a discrimination but in most scenario it can't because of the unequal opportunities between men and women in career choices.Most women choose to work in low paid jobs and even when some of them want to work in higher paid jobs,they won't be hired because of low education level. Most women don't even graduate from college so how could they expect that when they work then they would be paid higher wage ?
ghostrecon says2017-01-27T15:07:56.2890979Z
Perhaps where a number of women work in full-time job equally to men then it would be a discrimination if women be paid less than men.But in that case it's very less likely to happen because majority of women work in part-time job and majority of men work in full time job .
dilordious says2017-01-27T15:16:20.1690979Z
@ ghostrecon If women face discrimination in employment then they are allowed to hire a lawyer because non-discrimination law that we have.
dilordious says2017-01-27T15:19:05.5758979Z
Civil Right Act 1964 outlaws discrimination on the basis of sex,race,religion,color,or national origin.
ghostrecon says2017-01-28T04:26:58.6471435Z
@ Arget What you said is completely crap. I suspect you are one of the radical feminist who have no idea but just trying to manipulate women and young girls by instruct them with one of the worst hypocritical info. Yes i agree with your viewpoint about larger number of males are in higher position employment and this fact appear to be true but it doesn't justify discrimination or inequality between men and women.Because gender wage gap has nothing to do with female or male privelege, it's just a fact that men earn more because they dedicated more by working longer hours or choosing a job that require higher degree college graduation or education level such as (doctor,Engineer,mechanics,physician,etc...).
ghostrecon says2017-01-28T04:42:15.0537632Z
But it seems to be that majority of women are lazy and want to enjoy the most comfortable life. They just prefer not to work hard and they see it's suitable for them to complain the whole day so that they could gain attention from Society.Once they gain attention from society,they could be offered exclusive privilege and benefit. This is the reason why feminism movement exist.
ghostrecon says2017-01-28T04:45:06.1699435Z
If just unfair for men that society try to turn a blind eye over them.
ghostrecon says2017-01-28T04:45:57.6499435Z
It is just unfair for men that society try to turn a blind eye to them.
stephannoi says2017-01-28T05:19:31.7659435Z
@ Arget Arget said,, Finally men are seen as more dominating and ruthless compared to women'' Wow,this sentence uncover that you are completely stupid,tyrannous and mad. You only speak in the aspect of men dominating women without visualize into detail further whether men deserve their remuneration for what they have been dedicated hard enough.
stephannoi says2017-01-28T05:25:40.2379435Z
After i have heard your perspective view, i assume that you are relentlessly pursuit only your own interest just like many other feminist do.
stephannoi says2017-01-28T05:35:57.3897632Z
And you shouldn't mention ,,men are ruthless'', because it's not their fault that they in return receive a better reward or stand in a better position.
Arget says2017-01-28T10:06:27.9317036Z
Men are seen as more dominating/driven, and women are seen as more nurturing/emotional. These are our societal stereotypes that we have in the back of our head constantly. When you think of a homemaker the first second and third thing that pops into 90% of peoples heads is a mother, the reverse is true when you think of a breadwinner or corporate ceo. Other stereotypes are that men are tougher emotionally (ex: boys don't cry) and more violent (when you mention fighting most people will think of two men). On the other side of the coin women are considered emotionally unstable (time of the month bitchiness) and also more scheming and backstabbing (talk about others behind their back). How much of this is justified is up to debate however these stereotypes do stick with us and effect our decisions even if the person in question isn't showing these traits. @ghostrecon: The studies show that these things do influence it (though I don't believe that it is a conscious decision most of the time), and that even when working just as hard, having similar degree and experience, and getting even better results women are STILL paid less and have a smaller chance of promotion than male competition. Your argument is completely denying this FACT and that is the discrimination I'm talking about!!!!! ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL women often make less and have a smaller chance for promotion. PAY ATTENTION! I said that if a woman gets less pay because they CHOSE (and not had chosen for her because of expectations of her needing it for family) flexibility, shorter hours, or time off for family, then that was JUSTIFIED and not discrimination. What I said is that a woman who has the same degree, hours, work ethic, and equal or better results than a man getting paid LESS and with a smaller chance at promotion is discrimination. The fact that more men make the decision to go for higher jobs does NOT JUSTIFY a discrepancy for equivalent individuals solely because of gender. Also read your history the reason that the feminist movement exists is because women used to not have rights, and men took all credit for their work (that still effects us today if in a partnership studies show that men are given more credit than women for success unless duties and roles are spelled out exactly). The fact that some among the movement take it too far does not discredit the purpose and goal of equality. Just as the fact that some men are sexist pigs who want women to be treated like objects (polls saying women shouldn't have any rights repeatedly show up on this very site) does not mean that the fears that the feminist movement may go to far and reverse the discrimination should be discredited. @ghost and stephannoi: I am not a feminist man hater as you two seem to believe. I am a straight man myself, and would consider myself average, however I do my best to maintain a rational evidence based decision making (though I'm only human). Here is the thing: stereotypes DO effect your behavior, even more so if you do not reflect on your decisions and work to remove bias not upheld by evidence, THIS IS A PROVEN FACT! The stereotypes of men and women in our society are against women in the work place. How much of an effect this has compared to lifestyle choices is up to debate, just as much as what we can do to solve it, HOWEVER that it does have an effect has been PROVEN just as the fact that lifestyle choices do have an effect and BOTH are part of our gender wage gap (to what degree is also debatable). I am NOT saying that a man who is putting in more hours or getting better results than a female competitor should be getting the same wage and chance for promotion (assuming experience and degree are equal)! I AM saying that if a woman has the same experience, degree, and results as a man they should get equal pay and chance of promotion, and if she is better (experience, degree, or results) then she should have higher pay or chance at promotion AND VICE VERSA! @Stephannoi: My 'ruthless' comment was meant in regards to executive positions (that the study I had been referencing was about) where it is seen as an advantage: bankrupting a competitor even if in an underhanded way, exploitation of replaceable employees by reducing wages and layoffs while requiring higher productivity, moving production to a country where you can run sweatshops and ignore employee safety, stealing workers wages by making them work off the clock or not paying overtime, ignoring the law because you have forced all employees into binding arbitration with a bribed arbitrator or arbitration company, buying and burying patents that would reduce companies profits (even while they may better society overall). The type of actions that the stereotype of a nurturing woman would be expected to have a harder time deciding to do, while the competitive and goal achieving stereotype of men are more likely to do. Men are also more expected to push their own interests and claim credit for achievements (even for claiming credit of subordinates work) while women will face backlash when doing the same (and are expected to spread credit to their subordinates even some of their own). "Being a helper is central to female gender stereotype prescriptions, which dictate that women be nurturing and socially oriented (communal) rather than competitive and achievement oriented (agentic) (Eagly & Mladinic, 1989; Eagly & Steffen, 1984; Heilman, 2001)"http://www.Uccs.Edu/Documents/dcarpent/altruism.Pdf As a man I am not trying to push for my own self interest actually (since being more fair means I'm less likely to get a job or promotion), unless that interest is of a more fair world were everyone is treated better without prejudice (something we will never achieve because it goes against basic human nature). I have looked at both sides of the gender wage gap argument and come to the conclusion that they BOTH have a point. The average wage difference gap is exaggerating the scope of the problem because it does not take into account the life choices that more women in regards to lower value employment or needing a more flexible job. However when the difference is between comparable groups where women have the same or higher overall qualifications (degree, experience, work ethic, flexibility, hours, etc) but getting paid less or having less chance of promotion it shows that the problem is not only in lifestyle choices (THE PART OF THE DIFFERENCE THAT ISN'T BASED ON LIFESTYLES CHOICES IS WHAT I ARGUE NEEDS CORRECTING!).
Arget says2017-01-28T10:09:24.1649036Z
Dangit it removed the spacing and turned it into a wall going to repost in parts. Men are seen as more dominating/driven, and women are seen as more nurturing/emotional. These are our societal stereotypes that we have in the back of our head constantly. When you think of a homemaker the first second and third thing that pops into 90% of peoples heads is a mother, the reverse is true when you think of a breadwinner or corporate ceo. Other stereotypes are that men are tougher emotionally (ex: boys don't cry) and more violent (when you mention fighting most people will think of two men). On the other side of the coin women are considered emotionally unstable (time of the month bitchiness) and also more scheming and backstabbing (talk about others behind their back). How much of this is justified is up to debate however these stereotypes do stick with us and effect our decisions even if the person in question isn't showing these traits.
Arget says2017-01-28T10:10:40.1837036Z
@ghostrecon: The studies show that these things do influence it (though I don't believe that it is a conscious decision most of the time), and that even when working just as hard, having similar degree and experience, and getting even better results women are STILL paid less and have a smaller chance of promotion than male competition. Your argument is completely denying this FACT and that is the discrimination I'm talking about!!!!! ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL women often make less and have a smaller chance for promotion. PAY ATTENTION! I said that if a woman gets less pay because they CHOSE (and not had chosen for her because of expectations of her needing it for family) flexibility, shorter hours, or time off for family, then that was JUSTIFIED and not discrimination. What I said is that a woman who has the same degree, hours, work ethic, and equal or better results than a man getting paid LESS and with a smaller chance at promotion is discrimination. The fact that more men make the decision to go for higher jobs does NOT JUSTIFY a discrepancy for equivalent individuals solely because of gender. Also read your history the reason that the feminist movement exists is because women used to not have rights, and men took all credit for their work (that still effects us today if in a partnership studies show that men are given more credit than women for success unless duties and roles are spelled out exactly). The fact that some among the movement take it too far does not discredit the purpose and goal of equality. Just as the fact that some men are sexist pigs who want women to be treated like objects (polls saying women shouldn't have any rights repeatedly show up on this very site) does not mean that the fears that the feminist movement may go to far and reverse the discrimination should be discredited.
Arget says2017-01-28T10:12:45.8729036Z
@ghost and stephannoi: I am not a feminist man hater as you two seem to believe. I am a straight man myself, and would consider myself average, however I do my best to maintain a rational evidence based decision making (though I'm only human). Here is the thing: stereotypes DO effect your behavior, even more so if you do not reflect on your decisions and work to remove bias not upheld by evidence, THIS IS A PROVEN FACT! The stereotypes of men and women in our society are against women in the work place. How much of an effect this has compared to lifestyle choices is up to debate, just as much as what we can do to solve it, HOWEVER that it does have an effect has been PROVEN just as the fact that lifestyle choices do have an effect and BOTH are part of our gender wage gap (to what degree is also debatable). I am NOT saying that a man who is putting in more hours or getting better results than a female competitor should be getting the same wage and chance for promotion (assuming experience and degree are equal)! I AM saying that if a woman has the same experience, degree, and results as a man they should get equal pay and chance of promotion, and if she is better (experience, degree, or results) then she should have higher pay or chance at promotion AND VICE VERSA!
Arget says2017-01-28T10:13:48.8501036Z
@Stephannoi: My 'ruthless' comment was meant in regards to executive positions (that the study I had been referencing was about) where it is seen as an advantage: bankrupting a competitor even if in an underhanded way, exploitation of replaceable employees by reducing wages and layoffs while requiring higher productivity, moving production to a country where you can run sweatshops and ignore employee safety, stealing workers wages by making them work off the clock or not paying overtime, ignoring the law because you have forced all employees into binding arbitration with a bribed arbitrator or arbitration company, buying and burying patents that would reduce companies profits (even while they may better society overall). The type of actions that the stereotype of a nurturing woman would be expected to have a harder time deciding to do, while the competitive and goal achieving stereotype of men are more likely to do. Men are also more expected to push their own interests and claim credit for achievements (even for claiming credit of subordinates work) while women will face backlash when doing the same (and are expected to spread credit to their subordinates even some of their own). "Being a helper is central to female gender stereotype prescriptions, which dictate that women be nurturing and socially oriented (communal) rather than competitive and achievement oriented (agentic) (Eagly & Mladinic, 1989; Eagly & Steffen, 1984; Heilman, 2001)"http://www.Uccs.Edu/Documents/dcarpent/altruism.Pdf
Arget says2017-01-28T10:16:28.6409036Z
As a man I am not trying to push for my own self interest actually (since being more fair means I'm less likely to get a job or promotion, just to be clear this is against the general stereotype of men placing competition and achievements first), unless that interest is of a more fair world were everyone is treated better without prejudice (something we will never achieve because it goes against basic human nature). I have looked at both sides of the gender wage gap argument and come to the conclusion that they BOTH have a point. The average wage difference gap is exaggerating the scope of the problem because it does not take into account the life choices that more women in regards to lower value employment or needing a more flexible job. However when the difference is between comparable groups where women have the same or higher overall qualifications (degree, experience, work ethic, flexibility, hours, etc) but getting paid less or having less chance of promotion it shows that the problem is not only in lifestyle choices (THE PART OF THE DIFFERENCE THAT ISN'T BASED ON LIFESTYLES CHOICES IS WHAT I ARGUE NEEDS CORRECTING BUT HAVE NO IDEA HOW TO DO IT!).
ghostrecon says2017-01-28T13:32:54.7604037Z
@ Arget First i would like to cite you several credible studies that disagree with gender wage gap existence. Here are some explanation from american enterprise institute why gender wage gap is just only a myth : Before we drawn into conclusion of salary difference between men and women let's just first have a look on working hours that may have an significant influence on gender wage gap 1.For example 26 % of men working full-time worked 41 or more hours per week in 2014,compared to only 14.8 % of women who worked those hours,meaning that men working full-time last year were almost twice as likely as women to work 41 hours per work or more. Further men working full-time were also 2.5 times more likely than women to work 60 + hours week.6.6 % of men work 60 hours per week or more in 2014 compared to only 26 % of women who work those hours. Also women working full-time were 2.5 times more likely than men to work shorter workweeks of 35 to 39 hours per week. 11.8 % of full time women worked those hours in 2014 compared to only 4.8 % of men who did so.
ghostrecon says2017-01-28T13:35:38.8256037Z
2. Because men work more hours on average than women,some of the of the raw wage gap naturally disappears just by simply controlling for the number of hours worked per we. For example, women earned 83% of median male earnings for all workers working 35 hours per week or more, for a raw, unadjusted pay gap of 17% for full-time workers. But for those workers with a 40-hour workweek, women earned 89.3% of median male earning for a pay gap of only 10.7%. Therefore, once we control only for one variable – hours worked – and compare men and women both working 40-hours per week in 2014, nearly half of the raw 17% pay gap reported by the BLS disappears.
ghostrecon says2017-01-28T13:36:46.8572037Z
3. The BLS reports that for full-time single workers who have never married, women earned 93.7% of men’s earnings in 2014, which is a wage gap of only 6.3% (see Table 1 and chart above), compared to an overall unadjusted pay gap of 17% for workers in that group. When controlling for marital status and comparing the earnings of unmarried men and unmarried women, nearly two-thirds of the raw 17% wage gap is explained by just one variable (among many): marital status.
ghostrecon says2017-01-28T13:37:31.0988037Z
4. In Table 7, the BLS reports that for full-time single workers with no children under 18 years old at home (includes never married, divorced, separated, and widowed), women’s median weekly earnings of $667 were 94% of the weekly earnings of $701 for their male counterparts in that cohort (see chart above). For this group, once you control for marital status and children at home, we can explain almost two-thirds of the unadjusted gender earnings gap.
ghostrecon says2017-01-28T13:38:19.4120037Z
5.Also from Table 1 in the BLS report, we find that for married workers with a spouse present, women working full-time earned only 78.6% of what married men with a spouse present earned working full-time in 2014 (see chart). Therefore, BLS data show that marriage has a significant and negative effect on women’s earnings relative to men’s, but we can realistically assume that marriage is a voluntary lifestyle choice, and it’s that personal decision, not necessarily labor market discrimination, that contributes to at least some of the gender wage gap for married full-time workers.
ghostrecon says2017-01-28T13:40:02.2160037Z
6.Also in Table 1, the BLS reports that for young workers ages 20-24 years, women earned 92.3% of the median earnings of male full-time workers reflecting a 7.7% gender wage gap for that age cohort in 2014.Once again, controlling for just a single important variable – age – we find that more than half of the overall unadjusted raw wage gap for all workers (17%) disappears for young workers.
ghostrecon says2017-01-28T13:40:46.9724037Z
8.Also from Table 7, married women (with spouse present) working full-time with children under 18 years at home earned 81% of what married men (spouse present) earned working full-time with children under 18 years (see chart). Once again, we find that marriage and motherhood have a significantly negative effect on women’s earnings; but those lower earnings don’t necessarily result from labor market discrimination, they more likely result from personal family choices about careers, workplace flexibility, child care, and the number of hours worked, etc.
ghostrecon says2017-01-28T13:42:13.5056037Z
9.When the BLS reports that women working full-time in 2014 earned 83% of what men earned working full-time, that is very much different than saying that women earned 83% of what men earned for doing exactly the same work while working the exact same number of hours in the same occupation, with exactly the same educational background and exactly the same years of continuous, uninterrupted work experience. As shown above, once we start controlling individually for the many relevant factors that affect earnings, e.g. hours worked, age, marital status and having children, most of the raw earnings differential disappears. In a more comprehensive study that controlled for all of the relevant variables simultaneously, we would likely find that those variables would account for nearly 100% of the unadjusted, raw earnings differential of 17% lower earnings for women reported by the BLS. Discrimination, to the extent that it does exist, would likely account for a very small portion of the raw gender pay gap.
ghostrecon says2017-01-28T13:43:52.8776037Z
Source (https://www.Bls.Gov/opub/reports/womens-earnings/archive/highlights-of-womens-earnings-in-2014.Pdf).
ghostrecon says2017-01-28T13:55:31.2896037Z
This is why all feminism theory is hypocritical because it does not based on solid evidence and comprehensive research. Their theory is simply bias and portray men as ruthless and evil.
BAM1979 says2017-02-08T18:55:01.9843943Z
Which 'gender wage gap' is this, exactly? I'll assume it's the one that doesn't exist - that seems to be the commonly referenced one - and say , no the imaginary gender wage gap doesn't discriminate against women.
joeyt1817 says2017-05-22T19:24:08.4173355Z
@ghostrecon Women graduate college at a higher rate than men. They aren't being denied opportunities, they have the chance for more.
krixtina says2019-09-10T20:53:27.7556703Z
Ghostrecon I can't believe you said that! More women go to college and graduate than men. Women have hard jobs that don't pay so well and some male jobs are easy and pay more, Can you explain how that is not discrimination? I know because I have worked both, Super hard high skilled jobs that are predominantly female are paid much less than easy jobs that are predominantly male. Women in general are much more educated these days. Less babies are also born. The hardest job on earth is raising good children to be adults. That is a non paying job done mostly by women although men are more involved now. Just seems that you may have a bias towards men being superior.

Freebase Icon   Portions of this page are reproduced from or are modifications based on work created and shared by Google and used according to terms described in the Creative Commons 3.0 Attribution License.

By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use.