Do you think Trump is a shill for the Alt-Right?

Posted by: karlmarx59

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karlmarx59 says2016-08-25T04:37:31.1787348Z
When Donald Trump hired Breitbart's Steve Bannon to lead his campaign, the alt-right rejoiced. Not only had one of their own made it into the halls of power, he was seated at the right hand of the candidate who has done more to advance their politics of white nationalism, men's rights and conspiracism than any nominee in a generation or more. As the Trump campaign embraces its alt-right identity, mainstream conservatives are confronted with a challenging future. A break with the alt-right might slim the right's ranks, but merging with it endangers the future of conservatism altogether. Breitbart, the right-wing news organization Bannon runs, is key to the story of the alt-right's power in this election. Tell an adherent of the alt-right that Breitbart is an alt-right site and they'll scoff. (If you're a guy, they'll call you a "cuck," a reference to emasculated white manhood. If you are a woman, they'll use a different four-letter c-word.) Breitbart isn't the beating heart of the alt-right but the entering wedge, the link between the alt-right and the mainstream right.
triangle.128k says2016-08-26T16:42:34.8202558Z
@karlmarx Wrong. The alt right consists of ideologies such as white nationalism or neo-fascism. Breitbart is a libertarianish right wing populist website, which is far from the alt right.
NHN says2016-08-27T10:44:36.6858007Z
@triangle.128k There is no difference between right-wing populism, "Lew Rockwell libertarianism" and neo-recationary/neo-fascist ideology; they intersect. Murray Rothbard, who wrote the "manifesto" of right-wing populism in support of David Duke in 1992 (http://archive.Lewrockwell.Com/rothbard/ir/Ch5.Html), would have been annoying alt-right voice had he lived today. Rothbard was also an avid supporter of historical revisionism (https://mises.Org/library/case-revisionism-and-against-priori-history). Hans-Hermann Hoppe, Jeff Deist, and their ilk at the Mises Inistute form another aspect of this fractious movement. Before Trump, there was Ron Paul. Before Ron Paul, Pat Buchanan, George Wallace -- all the way back to the Klan and the Confederacy.
NHN says2016-08-28T06:27:17.0438855Z
"Breitbart News is 'the platform for the alt-right,' boasts Stephen Bannon" (http://www.Motherjones.Com/politics/2016/08/stephen-bannon-donald-trump-alt-right-breitbart-news).
triangle.128k says2016-08-28T06:29:01.5828616Z
I'm proudly alt-right if Breitbart is considered alt-right. Seriously, the term "alt-right" is just an insult. But if alt-right really means certain nationalist ideologies, then I am proudly an alt-right winger and I don't care.
triangle.128k says2016-08-28T06:31:16.4318548Z
You're falsely saying neo-reactionaries, neo-fascism, libertarianism, and right wing populism are the same. They are NOT. Libertarians and RWPs can have classical liberal views which are kind of contrasting to neo-reactionary views. Neo-fascism is a "modern" form of fascism which is a totalitarian ideology, and Libertarian ideology advocates for more freedom. Right wing populism on the other hand is just anti-establishment right wing nationalism.
triangle.128k says2016-08-28T06:32:26.9140102Z
You're making false connections out of different things. Trump and Ron Paul have nothing to do with the KKK and CSA.
NHN says2016-08-28T06:35:47.1946708Z
Browse this (https://www.Splcenter.Org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/ideology/alternative-right) or perhaps this (https://thelibertarianalliance.Com/2016/08/27/the-altright-paul-gottfried-interviewed-by-sean-gabb/), which highlights that the alt-right is where many "disillusioned libertarians" go once they come to realize that they, at bottom, are reactionary racists. This is an anti-liberty, white power crowd.
triangle.128k says2016-08-28T06:37:36.3615610Z
What views make someone alt right? Isn't there a difference between nationalism and downright white supremacy?
triangle.128k says2016-08-28T06:39:47.9656918Z
I'm not reading "progressive" propaganda
NHN says2016-08-28T06:41:11.9608985Z
Not once have I mentioned the term nationalist, which is also a strange position for a libertarian, who is supposedly anti-authoritarian. Try reading instead of buzzing around. This regards white supremacy, exclusively equating the white identity with the nation-state.
NHN says2016-08-28T06:42:49.2543563Z
triangle.128k says2016-08-28T06:43:33.9984385Z
So why is right wing populism equivalent to white supremacy? Nationalism isn't always racist either and is fully compatible with Libertarianism.
NHN says2016-08-28T06:44:03.1645590Z
I also posted an interview with Paul Gottfried, one of those who allegedly coined the term, from The Libertarian Alliance Blog.
triangle.128k says2016-08-28T06:46:24.5721187Z
The term is just an insult, nothing more. Trump isn't a white supremacist in any way, and the only proof that he is are lies and twisted quotes.
NHN says2016-08-28T06:47:04.1545988Z
Nationalism in a nation-state is authoritarian. Authoritarianism and libertarianism are mutually exclusive. And you may be too heavily influenced by Murray Rothbard, Lew Rockwell, or other members of the reactionary right to see this. Rothbard was a kook who supported Klansman Duke (http://archive.Lewrockwell.Com/rothbard/ir/Ch5.Html) and laid out a manifesto on right-wing populism. Rothbard also broke with the libertarians in 1989.
triangle.128k says2016-08-28T06:51:05.4867208Z
What does it have to do with authoritarianism? Nationalism is just healthy patriotism, I don't see the correlation with nationalism and authoritarianism. Also I never said I supported reactionary views, especially given I'm a radical Classical Liberal who despises reactionary ideas.
triangle.128k says2016-08-28T06:56:10.0357774Z
Right wing populism is basically a European ideology that's mainly opposition to mass migration from refugees, euroskepticism, nationalism, sometimes ending the welfare state, etc.
NHN says2016-08-28T07:04:32.5852457Z
Nationalism and patriotism are not the same. Patriotism denotes love for the land. Nationalism regards an ideology in which the nation-state is promoted as ideal and simultaneously tied to a specific ethnic group/national identity, a culture, a language, etc. Regardless, why are you defending indefensible, anti-libertarian bupkis like right-wing populism (see Rothbard)?
triangle.128k says2016-08-28T07:16:56.4373462Z
@NHN Ethnic group, I don't care given I'm not an ethno-nationalist. But there's nothing wrong with wanting the nation to have its own identity, culture, language, etc. and not be watered down by multiculturalism or mass migration from one area. None the less, this has nothing to do with libertarian/authoritarianism. Also, stop misreading my statements. I don't care for Rothbard. I mainly support the right wing populist groups in Europe that advocate for ideas such as nationalism, monoculturalism, immigration reform, leaving the EU, etc. Not all right wing populist groups are necessarily authoritarian. Look at groups such as the FPO or UKIP, they are fairly libertarian and right wing populist at the same time. That being said, I am completely in opposition towards authoritarian right wing populist groups such as the French national front, or even the Golden dawn (which is just a neo-fascist and wanna-be neo-nazi group)
NHN says2016-08-28T07:32:25.1811674Z
It does matter. If you oppose a multicultural society, you do so by having government opt for an ethnically pure society; that's authoritarian and, in your case, white nationalist. A libertarian wouldn't care about the ethnic makeup of the nation-state.
triangle.128k says2016-08-28T08:04:25.0698743Z
Culture isn't ethnicity; I want a multicultural world not a multicultural society.
triangle.128k says2016-08-28T08:07:14.5961610Z
I'm not a white nationalist either, given that I'm not white. I don't support the idea of a state where you must be white to be a citizen or part of the nation.
NHN says2016-08-28T08:16:25.6923844Z
You're going in circles. Nationalist ideology places an ethnic group ahead of others in a monocultural society. It doesn't matter what ethnic group or sexual minority you de facto belong to; some among the alt-right extremists are Middle Eastern and Jewish; some are homosexuals. It is that you identify the outside culture as a threat to "your" monocultural society. And the means by which you keep out that "threat" of other cultures is through the force of government. That's the reactionary-authoritarian schema.
triangle.128k says2016-08-28T14:10:52.6932197Z
@NHN No, I don't see outside cultures as a threat. I just don't want societies to be watered down by multiculturalism, so the world can remain multicultural. And I never said authoritarian force should be used for cultural assimilation, but assimilation should be encouraged and immigration should be in balance, that's literally it. Also, I have no problem with a small minority of people not assimilating and living in ethnic enclaves, so long as they don't cause trouble.
triangle.128k says2016-08-28T14:44:08.7884151Z
Also stop bringing up ethnicity because I am not an ethno nationalist.
NHN says2016-08-28T15:48:19.2207769Z
And you're digging that hole deeper with each reply. As you "have no problem with a small minority of people not assimilating and living in ethnic enclaves," this means that an ethnic majority population is a necessary element in your favored monocultural society. And as this regards America and not the authoritarian Shinzo Abe's Japan, this does in fact involve a neo-reactionary, ethnonationalist turn.
triangle.128k says2016-08-28T16:01:57.9749947Z
God how stupid are you? Ethnicity =/= culture
NHN says2016-08-28T16:13:11.4613230Z
This is bizarre. That was a direct quote. You stated: "I have no problem with a small minority of people not assimilating and living in ethnic enclaves, so long as they don't cause trouble" which means that you imply a standard of ethnic majority population in said culture.
triangle.128k says2016-08-28T16:38:41.9925202Z
Whwt do you define as ethnicity? All I said was that a monocultural society is preferrable, I never said anything other than that. By ethnic enclaves I meant areas like Chinatowns.
NHN says2016-08-28T17:16:34.3445003Z
Ethnicity, or ethnic group, is an ethnically homogeneous group. And the presence of Chinatowns, or Little Armenia in LA, are signs of multiculturalism. How do you mean that these should be "watered down"? Forced assimilation to the White Anglo-Saxon Protestant culture? I am trying to understand your position.
triangle.128k says2016-08-28T18:07:19.4639773Z
@NHN You didn't define ethnicity, I never said anything about ethnic nationalism. I never said Chinatowns or other enclaves should be watered down on. All I said was that cultures should not be watered down by multiculturalism, because a multicultural world is better than a multicultural society. Monoculturalism around the world will preserve cultures, wheras multiculturalism will do the opposite.
NHN says2016-08-30T08:49:05.6276441Z
You're talking in circles in order to circumnavigate the obvious fact that you're a reactionary-authoritarian ethnonationalist. Nationalism is by its very nature tied to the polity's dominant ethnicity (another name for ethnic group, which is a subcategory of race). And multiculturalism is a concept relevant to society, not to the world. And as you reject multiculturalism in place of monoculturalism, this is ethnonationalism by another name.
triangle.128k says2016-08-30T09:48:45.8494423Z
Define ethnicity please. Different races can follow one culture. Now you're just resorting to insults

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