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FactsVsFeelings says2016-08-15T17:05:03.5439533Z
Communism is human nature. Laziness and the desire to not contribute and still reap the benefits.
karlmarx59 says2016-08-15T22:06:53.3288460Z
The argument makes the subtle assumption that all resources in the world are evidently finite. Within non-communist societies, people compete ruthlessly to obtain the largest amount of resources and property for the end goal of wealth. Because property is scarce, once all capital is privatized, the incentive to work will be non-existent because all resources will be exhausted. Since all non-communist systems will eventually succeed to this condition, the only solution, Marx and Engels argue, is to ensure no privatization of property is allowed. The introduction of computers and the computer industry into communism complicates finiteness of capital. Unlike the traditional sense of physical property such as land or factories, computers produce a new bountiful medium of ownership. Computers provide a means and way to create seemingly endless capital since the barriers of documenting ideas are significantly lifted through the use of applications and networking. The limited capital within the world, as described in the Communist Manifesto, has expanded to apparent infinity with the introduction of computing. Hence, the study of how computers have affected work motivation and ethics in Communism is needed. Also, people innately want to have purpose and to be a part of the whole of something. People become non productive miscreants and criminals due to avarice and greed perpetuated by capitalistic greed and consumption. They want to do things the "easy" way instead of earning it and being a part of a functioning system. Just like you see the US is an epic failure in capitalism. Russia and it's corruption made communism a failure, the US and it's corruption has made capitalism a failure. Right now a strong socialist society with the strong leadership to blend private trade with governmental will be the saving grace of the United States unless the government keeps pumping lead in the water and you folks keep getting dumber and dumber. They are placating you with guns, TV, video games, Political pundants and moronic reality shows. America you are the JOKE of the world.
karlmarx59 says2016-08-15T22:07:49.3332050Z
FactsvsFeelings: In other words a true American
Throwback says2016-08-16T00:23:35.5715441Z
Why would you say that about Americans? I work over 50 hour work weeks not to mention the several hours a day I spend working at home.
karlmarx59 says2016-08-16T02:39:31.2631069Z
Throwback: believe it or not...Not everything is about YOU. Most of my post are generalizations based on fact or my personal experience. I have no doubt you work very hard and contribute very much to your community. Unlike you saying I do not. I give several hours of my time doing pro bono work in mental health for battered women every time I am invited by the APA to come the the US. Also, I have done collaborative work with US psychologist on violence and video games, personality disorders and neurology. So, I give more than I make working. But since Germany is "socialist" and I pay 49% of my income in taxes, I don't have to worry about retirement funds, healthcare, vacation time, and many other social aspects of a good life. Also, my culture is not consumerist. I have a modest home and a BMW. A German Shepherd and two cats. My son is an engineer in Berlin and my ex-husband is an Engineer in Hamburg. I enjoy old movies, swimming, walking, kayaking, and mountain biking for entertainment. My life is simple and understated.
Throwback says2016-08-16T03:09:47.5748353Z
I don't recall saying you did not.
karlmarx59 says2016-08-16T03:15:40.0480135Z
Throwback: OK
TheDebaytDood says2016-08-16T14:23:55.3435262Z
No, capitalism goes against human nature because it exploits the workers. Communism is the only system in which humans can be truly happy.
Wolfram says2016-08-16T16:30:42.4067248Z
Karl Marx was an idiot.
karlmarx59 says2016-08-16T22:29:29.3652031Z
@Wolfram: Yes, Karl Marx was an idiot, that is why his Communist Manifesto is studied in philosophy and economics and political courses all over the world? Rolling my eyes. Just because you have no depth of knowledge of an economic system or about people who wrote about societies and predictions of human nature, doesn't mean you can make a blanketed statement with nothing to back your claim and nothing to compare your special kind of wisdom to. Most people agree that we need to improve our economic system somehow. It threatens our planet through excessive consumption, distracts us with irrelevant advertising, leaves people hungry and without healthcare, and fuels unnecessary wars. Yet we’re also often keen to dismiss the ideas of its most famous and ambitious critic, Karl Marx. This isn’t very surprising. In practice, his political and economic ideas have been used to design disastrously planned economies and nasty dictatorships. Frankly, the remedies Marx proposed for the ills of the world now sound a bit demented. He thought we should abolish private property. People should not be allowed to own things. At certain moments one can sympathize. It is like predicting human behavior.Nevertheless, we shouldn’t reject Marx too quickly. We ought to see him as a guide whose diagnosis of Capitalism’s ills helps us navigate towards a more promising future.One of Marx’s greatest insights, delivered in an early book known as the 1844 Manuscripts, is that work can be one of the sources of our greatest joys. It is because Marx had such high hopes for work that he was so angry at the miserable work that most of humanity is forced to endure. In order to be fulfilled at work, Marx wrote that workers need ‘to see themselves in the objects they have created’. At its best, labor offers us a chance to externalize what’s good inside us (let’s say, our creativity, our rigor, our logic), and to give it a stable, enduring form in some sort of object or service independent of us. Our work should – if things go right – be a little better than we manage to be day-to-day, because it allows us to concentrate and distill the best parts of us. Marx recognizes our multiple potentials. Specialization might be an economic imperative but it can be a human betrayal.Marx' greatest angst was when workers get paid little while capitalists get rich. This is perhaps the most obvious qualm Marx had with Capitalism. In particular, he believed that capitalists shrunk the wages of the laborers as much as possible in order to skim off a wide profit margin (he called this “primitive accumulation” or in German Ursprüngliche Akkumulation. It was very difficult for the laborers to protest or alter their circumstances. Not only were they in desperate need of employment, but their landlords and employers could conspire to keep them desperate by raising the price of living along with any rise in wages. Modern life also brought new challenges that kept the proletariat weak: crowded quarters, disease, crime-ridden cities, injuries in the factory. In short, Marx wrote, the workers could be almost endlessly exploited. Sound familiar? This is the current dilemma in America today!!!! And Marx predicted this corruption of capitalism. You are living what this man predicted in the 1800's. So who is the idiot now Wolfram? Who is the idiot now?
Wolfram says2016-08-16T22:56:25.3378789Z
@karlmarx59 Karl Marx accomplished nothing. There are many examples of inequality in different types of economy including Marxism. So yes, karlmarx59, Karl Marx was nothing more than a fool who aimed to solve the inequality of economy. Nice choice of name, karlmarx59. It's painfully obvious that you idolized Karl Marx.
karlmarx59 says2016-08-16T23:01:59.9487136Z
Wolfram: Brilliant deduction! I have many idols, Freud, Jung, Zinn, Kohlberg, Hunter Thompson, Chomsky, Sartre, Aristotle, Plato.....All you did was profess your dislike for a brilliant man you disagree with for whatever reason? Who knows? I laid out a lengthy , yet concise argument on why Marx was a force to be reckoned with. So obviously you do not know the rules of debate or discussion for that matter. I don't care if you like Marx or not, but you have been defeated in the challenge because you have not been able to defend your stance nor declare it.
karlmarx59 says2016-08-16T23:04:53.1744448Z
"A fool who tried to solve INEQUALITY of economy" OMG what a monster! That Karl Marx was horrible. Pfffffffffffffttttttttttttt. Yeah , like unbridled greed and sociopaths are working god for America, yeah like your idol Trump the Psychopath of greed, anger and self serving bias.
Wolfram says2016-08-16T23:08:32.2182571Z
@karlmarx59 This is not debate section, so cool your jets. If you want to have the debate with me then make one.
Throwback says2016-08-16T23:31:29.2099372Z
There are fundamental differences between the socialism espoused by Karl Marx and the individual liberty espoused by the founders of America. Marx's philosophy leads to the confiscation of high percentages of what each person produces. It is then ostensible redistributed throughout society, giving those in need what is sufficient according, based on the government's determination of what that means. The individualism of the people is secondary to the wealth they can create for harvest by the government. This funneling of wealth through the hands of the masters in government of course requires an extraordinary amount of faith in them, that they will not enrich themselves with the skimmings as the funds are filtered through. The founders of America believed in personal liberty. They believed that one should prosper or not, based on their work and knowledge. They believed that what one person earns as a result of their labor, is rightly theirs, and no others. They believed those who do not or cannot succeed do not have an inherent right to the fruit of someone else's labor. They believed that man is ennobled by being allowed to help those in need through voluntary acts of charity which do not involve government intrusion or coercion. They believed a free and civilized society with limited government would be better for the indivdual and for society-for society is nothing more than a mass of individuals who work toward and share goals and values. Therefore, when the individual is elevated and ennobled, what necessarily follows is the ennoblement of the society as a whole. These two philosophies are mutually exclusive. They are so opposed to each other that it seems any attempt by one espousing one of these philosophies can have any impact on the belief system of the other.
Wolfram says2016-08-17T00:04:20.8846616Z
@karlmarx59 Sure, let's overlook Karl Marx's empty promises to solve the inequality of economy with communism, never mind the history of failed economies derived from Karl Marx's idea of communism in which caused many deaths. Yeah,yeah. You can go ahead and insulting Trump as much you want. Whatever to sate your ass-kissing of communism, you silly marxist.
karlmarx59 says2016-08-17T04:34:13.7780491Z
Throwback made an excellent analogy! That is a very good way of looking at it from a capitalistic perspective. Thank you, I couldn't have thought of it that way considering my culture and the way I was brought up. Interesting bent on a same ideology.
karlmarx59 says2016-08-17T04:46:46.7573191Z
Wolfram what you fail to realize, is Marx is not responsible for the corruption of how Stalin or Lenin did to communism, just like you as an individual cannot be held responsible for Bush, Reagan, and other Republicans for letting Wall Street go unregulated and repealing Glass-Steagal so the banks had no holds barred. This vulgarized capitalism and destroyed the middle class America. The fifties would be the epitome of success in capitalism in America. But after that, things financially went south and with the citizens United and a number of things to protect the 1% and not the 99% even you can see the huge inequality is destroying the faith of the nation. So rant and rave all you want about Marx, but if you would take a moment and try to learn something instead of buying into FEAR, you may even understand yourself better. I know the American dream is that one day you all will be rich...But what is rich? I believe being productive and making the world better than how I came into it is making me rich beyond my dreams, not monetarily.That is why I chose a thankless profession. To give back. To make a difference. I could have EASILY become an MD, a surgeon, or the like and made money...But I was brutally attacked by two armed men. Held for two days and repeatedly raped and beaten...In those horrifying moments I was conscious, I vowed to do something in life to help others who had suffered unimaginable trauma. So I went to university and did it. And I give much of my free time to women who have been battered and raped. So, I believe in community and social programs, if you don't I am sorry you are selfish and greedy. Live your life how you want, it's yours to waste.
Throwback says2016-08-17T07:49:16.1272923Z
My apologies to everyone trying to read my last post. I am passionate about freedom and I was writing without proofreading, never a good idea! I was thinking faster than I could write.
karlmarx59 says2016-08-22T04:48:07.0574266Z
"The concept is pure, simple, true, it inspired me, led a rebellious fire, but ultimately I learned the lesson that Marx and the others learned. That true freedom requires sacrifice and pain. Most human beings only think they want freedom. In truth they yearn for the bondage of social order, rigid laws, materialism, the only freedom man really wants, is the freedom to become comfortable." Karl Marx

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