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41 Total Votes
1

There's no evidence for it

21 votes
3 comments
2

It has happened to me

11 votes
3 comments
3

Yes

9 votes
3 comments
4

Um...Not that I know

0 votes
0 comments
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FuzzyCatPotato says2014-06-15T18:45:52.9368294-05:00
If you think that "miracles" happen, you're gonna need some proof.
mishapqueen says2014-06-15T18:46:50.3858661-05:00
What proof do you want?
FuzzyCatPotato says2014-06-15T18:48:22.4411067-05:00
Depends on the miracle. Is it a healing? A vision from god? An I-found-my-keys?
mishapqueen says2014-06-15T18:52:50.7894123-05:00
I am a type one diabetic. One time when I had no insulin active in my body, a man prayed for me and my blood sugar plunged from 500-something to 300-something in the space of about 3 minutes. Even with insulin, this is clinically impossible. Prophecy is another thing. I have been able to say things that make no sense to me but are exactly what the other person needed to hear. The most recent example of that was this morning. I have more healings/prophecy experiences that I can tell you about if you are interested.
Stalin_Mario says2014-06-15T18:53:12.4838262-05:00
Mishapqueen, show us the "proof" that convinced you that miracles are real.
mishapqueen says2014-06-15T18:54:35.7312850-05:00
It's happened to me. I can't lie.
FuzzyCatPotato says2014-06-15T18:57:19.2515332-05:00
You can't lie. Hmm. Please prove that you cannot lie.
FuzzyCatPotato says2014-06-15T18:58:30.1383876-05:00
I mean, you can state these things as true, but we don't have proof that they actually happened. We don't have proof that equipment didn't fail, that people around you didn't lie, or that everything was controlled.
mishapqueen says2014-06-15T18:58:39.6544486-05:00
I can't deny their existence after what I have seen. That is what I meant. Take it or leave it.
mishapqueen says2014-06-15T19:01:53.9536941-05:00
Here are some videos of this guy who prayed for me. I bet you'll think he's a charlatan, but I encourage you to research him before you dismiss him. Http://www.Youtube.Com/watch?V=uOKgyhVJEKs http://www.Youtube.Com/watch?V=Ek8p3m9HdZ4 I also recommend the movie Paid in Full which documents the movement of God in all of the world.
mishapqueen says2014-06-15T19:16:18.1942596-05:00
If you think I am trying to deceive you, I'd just like to know why I would want to do that. All I know is miracles have happened to me. I was a little skeptical at first, but now that I have seen them and heard enough from Todd White and Dan Mohler to know they are legitimate, I would be deceiving myself and others to deny their existence.
Stalin_Mario says2014-06-15T19:18:55.3574756-05:00
Tell me some of your miracles.
mishapqueen says2014-06-15T19:30:30.0585987-05:00
Ok. Around the same time as the blood sugar incident, my dad and I went to a Verizon store. We saw a man sitting in a chair and we ended up talking to him. He started telling us how he had been a soldier in Iraq and he was thrown from a tank. As a result, his knees were shot, his back was hurting and his neck was in constant pain. He also experienced short term memory loss. We ended up praying for him. I put my hand on his shoulder, my dad put his hand on his knee. While we were praying, my hand all the way up to my elbow got burning hot. It was in December with an average of 20 degrees outside. I thought I might be just imagining the heat, so I didn't say anything, but the soldier said he felt it too. When he got up, he bent his knees and moved around and said that he didn't feel any more pain and was able to do stuff he couldn't do before. I don't know if his memory was restored or not. Once, I was in Walmart and I saw a young girl on crutches. I prayed for her and I saw her a few minutes later walking down the aisles with her crutches lifted in the air instead of using them as before. I say this not to say that I am a great healer, but that I have seen evidence that GOD is a great healer.
Stalin_Mario says2014-06-15T20:08:08.9952771-05:00
The first one sounds highly unlikely. If it was true, I'm pretty sure it would be all over the news, at least in the area of where it happened. Also the second one sounds more reasonable, but that's because it can be explained. Many people who are on crutches can still walk, but they use the crutches to minimizes the pain. I have seen countless people who were one crutches but were still able to walk normally, they just used to crutches whenever they needed to get the weight off of their knees/feet.
mishapqueen says2014-06-15T20:10:10.7228574-05:00
There was no newscasters there to spread the news. Miracles by definition are unlikely. The girl had been limping pretty badly. Did you check out the links?
Stalin_Mario says2014-06-15T20:14:10.2932611-05:00
No, I will when I have the time.
mishapqueen says2014-06-15T20:17:13.7408904-05:00
Here's a story out of one of Todd White's sermons. I think it is a little bit funny, and it really shows his heart and how he operates. Http://www.Youtube.Com/watch?V=0Jne5iIjRFo It's easy to just dismiss videos like this, so I encourage you to research it before you consider it junk.
PreferNotToBeLabeled says2014-06-15T20:19:40.5543726-05:00
TheCreationist says June 15 2014 05:57 PM "It is quite obvious he performs miracles. Every person who has ever been cured of a disease is the work of God" Have you ever heard of a doctor? Give credit where credit is due...
SamStevens says2014-06-15T20:41:55.2363426-05:00
@PreferNotToBeLabeled: I hate when people have that view point. They totally disregard doctors and medicine for the cure of the patient and replace it with their god.
JasperFrancisShickadance says2014-06-15T20:46:28.5576759-05:00
@SamStevens Look at mishapqueen's miracle above...Why wouldn't you believe that? It's just one example out of many that happen to Christians anywhere.
mishapqueen says2014-06-15T21:06:59.6963393-05:00
Actually, many do not. Dan Mohler and Todd White and many others teach that God heals through doctors and medical care in addition to miracles. Todd White even damaged his knee so bad he had to have surgery, but he saw others healed. They are of the opinion that prayer is optimal (it's cheaper and quicker for one thing), but if you need medical assistance, God uses that too. I even know of doctors who pray for their patients. In Paid In Full, a movie I mentioned earlier, there is a doctor who told a story about how he was in Haiti after the earthquake and a young man was brought to him that had had his left leg under an enormous concrete block for three days. The doctor said that the leg was cold and dead, and the only medical solution was to amputate. But he began to pray. He thought God told him to bathe the leg in saline with a cotton pad. He did so, and by the time he had finished, the leg was as good as new. It was pink and warm, the bones had mended and the man could feel his toes again.
SamStevens says2014-06-15T21:42:38.3249582-05:00
" Once, I was in Walmart and I saw a young girl on crutches. I prayed for her and I saw her a few minutes later walking down the aisles with her crutches lifted in the air instead of using them as before." So did you know why the girl needed the crutches? A person's use of a crutch can vary depending on the injury and the person's pain tolerance. An injury may not require 24/7 use of a crutch. Also, with the soldier. How do you know that was not a placebo effect? Is there any scientific evidence to support the healing power of prayer? Which side do you think would have more survivors, 50 cancer patients being treated with scientific medicine or 50 cancer patients with the power of prayer/miracles.
SamStevens says2014-06-15T21:52:37.9143385-05:00
Also, were the soldier's injuries healed permanently or was it just temporary. How do you know miracles actually occur instead of the events just being a coincidence? I think this video sums it up pretty good: https://www.Youtube.Com/watch?V=jk6ILZAaAMI
SamStevens says2014-06-15T22:07:43.7856914-05:00
I don't know, it seems like there are a lot of variables to be considered and multiple tested conducted to see if prayer/miracles actually do hold any water. It also seems like people are quick to say it is a miracle and that god( if it does exist) answered their prayers if what they prayed for actually did happen. I could say, I prayed for a score of 95% or higher on my test and I got a 97% so god must exist and my prayers were answered. I can also say that, I seen a stray dog in the street with a crippled leg and I prayed for the dog's leg to heal. I seen the dog 2 weeks later with a healed leg, so god must exist and my prayers were answered. And then you have times were god does not answer a family's prayer to cure a dying Indian baby in a run-down Indian slum. So it seems like there is a lot of cherry picking on god's end whether to full fill a person's prayer, or not.
Mikal says2014-06-15T22:42:32.9218762-05:00
God has to exist for him to be capable of doing miralces ie God does not exist, so no
mishapqueen says2014-06-15T22:42:40.2382762-05:00
I don't know if the soldier was permanently healed or not. I haven't seen him since I prayed for him. But I do know that he said he was hurting before we prayed and that he claimed to have no more pain after we prayed and demonstrated some motions he couldn't do before. I don't know why some people are not completely healed. There are many theories. The girl who had crutches sad that she had severely hurt her foot and that it was painful to walk on. I can only go off what they tell me, and I have tried to ask them what they feel rather than telling them what to feel. I don't want to be deceived as to whether this is real or not, so I have been really careful not to try to see healing where there is not. Honestly, it doesn't matter to me if you think I'm making it up and that the preachers I have cited are in your eyes charlatans. You are welcome to call them fake. But I cannot, because I have personally seen too much. I can't answer all your questions about God's "cherry picking" because I simply do not understand all the ins and outs. But I can tell you that God loves all people the same and that he wants everyone to get what he paid for. I don't understand why we don't always see it, but in times like those, I just trust in the character of God and pray to him to reveal the fulfillment of his promises. I hope it helps a little. I'm sorry I can't respond sufficiently. Part of the reason I don't have many more personal examples is because I have been afraid to use the power of God because I was asking myself if it was real or not. I'm really afraid of being wrong about it. But I am still moving forward and God is patient with me and has helped me more than I can tell. I also have a wonderful, encouraging father who continues to teach me boldness. But I now have seen enough I am convinced it is real. What you make of it is your decision.
SamStevens says2014-06-15T22:52:54.7412622-05:00
"Honestly, it doesn't matter to me if you think I'm making it up and that the preachers I have cited are in your eyes charlatans. You are welcome to call them fake. " I am not calling them fake. There are people like war veterans with severe injuries and injured people that require crutches. I am saying that there are so many variables that come into play like the placebo effect for the soldier and a type of injury/ pain tolerance regarding the crippled girl that to say a miracle happened is a leap in logic.
mishapqueen says2014-06-15T23:06:30.2088398-05:00
Ok. What do you mean by placebo effect?
SamStevens says2014-06-15T23:15:57.3793071-05:00
What I mean is that if a person is, for example, given a sugar pill(they think it is the real pill) that is supposed to relieve them of pain, and it works. They were given a pill under their false assumption that it was the real medicine and their pain was relieved. It could be applied to prayer in the pain aspect. If they think praying will relieve them of pain and belief it, like the person believed it was the real medicine, they may be relieved of pain.
SamStevens says2014-06-15T23:29:31.0851686-05:00
Also, why won't god heal amputees? When a person prays to cure them of cancer or another aliment , god " answers " their prayers and heals them accordingly( although it could be the doctors and medicine healing them). But when an amputee prays for their limb to grow back, it doesn't. Why is that? How come god can't do/is unwilling to perform this miracle yet scientists are fully capable of growing a finger back?
mishapqueen says2014-06-15T23:30:18.2127686-05:00
Of course, that is possible, and I have experienced that problem. But that is not always the case. I met someone who was healed from type one diabetes. He had not taken insulin in four years. Without insulin, sugar in the body builds up into toxic levels and leads to Diabetic Ketoacidosis which often leads to death. A diabetic can develop that if they don't dose for as much as a week. So, that was no placebo effect.
mishapqueen says2014-06-15T23:32:12.5139686-05:00
I don't know why we haven't seen God heal amputees. I have heard rumors of severed legs growing back, but I cannot testify to the veracity of that as much as I can do for the others.
SamStevens says2014-06-15T23:56:02.2808091-05:00
Since type 1 diabetes is an autoimmune disease, the person's body basically destroyed their own insulin producing beta cells. That person with type 1 diabetes could have had a pancreas transplant which replaces their beta cells. Also, regarding legs growing back. Without science, that wouldn't be possible as human tissue scars instead of regenerating lost tissue.
mishapqueen says2014-06-15T23:58:39.9882183-05:00
He said he did not have a transplant. And if it was that easy, hundreds of people would be on the list! Last I heard, they are still looking for a cure. If it is impossible, it would be a miracle, right?
SamStevens says2014-06-16T00:09:46.4370148-05:00
So if he did not have a transplant, how did he get cured? So if there is no known way to treat type 1 diabetes besides a pancreas transplant, what evidence is there to say it was a miracle inspired by god? It is beginning to be a god of the gaps argument. If he did not get a pancreas transplant, and there are no other ways to reverse it, yet for him it was healed, god must have done it.
discomfiting says2014-06-16T12:37:12.7473582-05:00
I prayed before my best-friend died asking him to save her. He didn't and that's enough proof for me to say that he's either careless and rude or doesn't exist
JasperFrancisShickadance says2014-06-16T12:38:53.8366542-05:00
@discomfiting, why'd you pray if you didn't believe God was real?
discomfiting says2014-06-16T12:41:08.8126847-05:00
Because when you're about to lose somebody you care about, you try all things possible whether you believe it'll work or not even if there's the absolute slightest chance that it will work, you try it and I did.
JasperFrancisShickadance says2014-06-16T16:20:16.7808245-05:00
Everybody dies; God doesn't save everyone from death.
JasperFrancisShickadance says2014-06-16T16:20:48.0542760-05:00
He has instead given us Heaven which we can choose to go to or not...
mishapqueen says2014-06-16T17:44:11.5592478-05:00
@SamStevens, You seem to be wanting more details about the ex-diabetic. He said that he had type one insulin-dependent diabetes for over 9 years. He then said that one day he prayed for healing and found himself over the next month or so needing less and less insulin. Finally he ended up not needing any insulin at all to keep his blood sugar in range. I also met a lady who said something similar. Now you know as much about it as I do.
discomfiting says2014-06-16T19:26:30.6477995-05:00
God can't save somebody from cancer? Lmao ok.
SamStevens says2014-06-16T19:32:37.8873995-05:00
Are there any links explaining how type 1 diabetes can be cured with out medical/scientific intervention? I have tried to find a case in which type 1 diabetes was cured, but so far, I have found no credible source.
mishapqueen says2014-06-16T19:37:38.5158033-05:00
@SamStevens http://www.Youtube.Com/watch?V=cyvmhfZ1anU Type one diabetes will never go away without the transplant, and even that is not ideal. (http://www.Joslin.Org/info/will_diabetes_go_away.Html) The only cured type ones I have met claim to be healed miraculously. How much are you familiar with diabetes?
SamStevens says2014-06-16T19:46:49.4065444-05:00
I'd say I am familiar since in my health class, we finished learning about diabetes in the health class I am enrolled in offered at the school I attend. "I met someone who was healed from type one diabetes. " Define heal: (of a person or treatment) cause (a wound, injury, or person) to become sound or healthy again. With the source you provided, it states: "It would be a mistake to assume that the diabetes has gone away, however." "But the process that has destroyed 90 percent of the insulin-producing cells will ultimately destroy the remaining insulin-producing cells. And as that destruction continues, the amount of injected insulin the patient needs will increase — and ultimately the patient will be totally dependent on insulin injections."
mishapqueen says2014-06-16T20:53:50.1889259-05:00
Sir, all I can say is these people were several YEARS without insulin. That is impossible for diabetes. I know about it because I have it. The source I cited is a scientific source that does not believe diabetes can go away. Problem is, it has. The reason why they were like pre-diabetes is because they prayed and saw healing as a direct result of prayer. I know you don't agree with my conclusion, but here are the facts: 1. They had diabetes 2. They prayed 3. The diabetes disappeared directly afterward confounding physicians 4. The diabetes has not returned years later.
SamStevens says2014-06-16T21:06:05.2409381-05:00
One can make an equal claim that 1. They are paralyzed from the waist down 2. They prayed 3. The loss of paralysis baffled doctors and medical experts 4. They experienced no pain or physical limitations from paralysis.
mishapqueen says2014-06-16T21:25:34.2600612-05:00
Sure. Point taken. But what is their reason to lie? I will be honest with you, I have also prayed that my diabetes would be healed, and I have so far seen no results. However, I still believe it is possible because I have seen other miracles occur.
SamStevens says2014-06-16T21:39:23.3121402-05:00
Their reason can be to fake an injury or a disease( it does happen).
mishapqueen says2014-06-16T21:47:41.8491229-05:00
Whose injury could be fake? I honestly don't know what you are referring to.
SamStevens says2014-06-16T22:07:37.6397691-05:00
Oh, I am just saying in general. Some people fake aliments to get insurance money, sit at home, etc. It does happen. And then their incurable disease is suddenly gone. But, back to the type 1 diabetic. Since heal means to -(of a person or treatment) cause (a wound, injury, or person) to become sound or healthy again. The miracle never really happened. It probably worked out in his favor that his daily dose of insulin was not needed for the time period, but the diabetic was never healed since "Neither type 1 (juvenile onset or insulin-requiring) diabetes or type 2 (adult-onset) diabetes ever goes away.". He just went into the "honeymoon period", which the symptoms appear to go away. Http://www.Joslin.Org/info/will_diabetes_go_away.Html
mishapqueen says2014-06-16T22:15:22.1845864-05:00
I have been in the "honey moon period" and my endocrinologist says it lasts a maximum of two years. My friend hadn't taken diabetes in four. Also, the honey moon period generally happens soon after diagnosis, and he had had it for many years; all of his childhood in fact. Have you watched this? Http://www.Youtube.Com/watch?V=uOKgyhVJEKs It's titled "Reading their mail,"--Todd White. Watch healing and prophecy in action and see for yourself if it is real or not.
mishapqueen says2014-06-16T22:16:56.3622338-05:00
Oh, you said it never goes away. But it did. So therefore it's a MIRACLE.
SamStevens says2014-06-16T22:54:58.5084622-05:00
For the video, how do you know it was not a placebo effect. If the FDA has to put new medicine through a double blind, placebo controlled study to see if it is effective, that alone there shows how strong the placebo effect is. How would you know that the pain relief of his knee was not a placebo effect? I mention the placebo effect a lot since it can interfere with your claim that god actually did it. Also, how do you actually know it is god answering the prayer. So if the desired outcome happens, it is a miracle. What do you have to say when, for example, the opposite occurs? I could say that I prayed to an African god for a cancer patient to survive and he did. Does that mean that the African god exists since he survived. If I pray to a flying spaghetti monster to get a good score on exams, and I did get a good score, does that mean a flying spaghetti monster exists just because my thoughts/prayers coincided with the results. So do you just dismiss the opposite result and say it is a miracle if it just happens to the desired result?"Oh, you said it never goes away. But it did. So therefore it's a MIRACLE."Actually, the source that you gave me a link to stated that. I only used that as evidence to show that it does not go away.
mishapqueen says2014-06-16T23:06:36.0133552-05:00
Yes, I realize it came from my source. My point was that while that is naturally true, supernaturally, diabetes is curable. As to the placebo effect, I feel like we are beating a dead horse. If you watch closely in the video, you can see the guy's leg growing out an inch. Also, when I am talking about miracles, I am not talking about the examples you cited. I am talking about a cancer patient with an irremovable tumor that doctors say they cannot cure suddenly and inexplicably disappearing as a result to prayer. My ex-diabetic friend and another witness told me about a time when he was struck by a terrible pain in his middle. Long story short, the doctors thought it might be a kidney stone. After they prayed for the kidney stone to dissolve, my friend went through an MRI. After a while, the doctor came in shaking his head. He said that there was damage in the urinal tract where there had been a huge kidney stone, but they couldn't locate it. You keep trying to explain away these examples I have brought up. What do you want to result from this conversation?
SamStevens says2014-06-16T23:39:01.2383287-05:00
With the placebo effect, it is a subject that should be addressed and in this case, should be beaten out of the realm of possibilities. You can give some one a sugar pill under their false assumption that it is the real thing but their headache will be relieved. It would skew the results/conclusions. If you can do it with a pill, couldn't you do it with some religious verses on some one with a sore knee/wrist and miss aligned legs( Personally/physically, it would be possible to have one foot higher up than the other as shown in the video and slowly move it back down all while keeping a straight knee.) who actually believes you? -Define placebo:a beneficial effect, produced by a placebo drug or treatment, that cannot be attributed to the properties of the placebo itself, and must therefore be due to the patient's belief in that treatment. About the kidney stone- a kidney stone can be dissolved by drinking lemon juice, due to its acidic nature depending on the type of stone. The stones can also shrink if the person makes dietary changes depending on the type of stone is present. http://www.wikihow.com/Dissolve-Kidney-Stones "What do you want to result from this conversation?" To actually see if praying does work or if it is just claiming it is a miracle if it just so happens to have the desired result.
mishapqueen says2014-06-16T23:54:45.7471341-05:00
In the interest of time, since it's getting late, I will be brief. You can explain it away as you like, but evidence in videos like I showed you abound. Research it for yourself. The "placebo effect" is a major issue for you, isn't it? Of course, we can't rule out the possibility, but I have seen miracles that I am convinced did not have that. However, it is impossible to convince someone who wasn't there. The kidney stone incident happened within a matter of hours, and the doctors said the damage indicated one of the hugest they had seen. Also all of the home cures your source cited took days, not an hour. If your true desire is to know if this is real, I would encourage you to watch Paid in Full. It documents many movements of God around the world and may be helpful. I also encourage you to research it and see for yourself. I have spent hours researching it, and came to the position I am now. And thirdly, I encourage you to reconsider God because he really loves you more than you can imagine, and if you ask him, he will most definitely reveal himself to you. "He who seeks finds."
SamStevens says2014-06-17T00:05:51.9806802-05:00
Yes, it is getting late. It may not necessarily take days, a stone can be dissolved in 12-15 hours[1]http://www.Compleatmother.Com/womens-health/kidney/kidney-stone.Shtml "you to reconsider God" Which god? There are literally hundreds out there.
mishapqueen says2014-06-17T10:45:04.0293456-05:00
We're talking about a disappearance in the space of about one hour, maybe a little less. You say on your profile that you used to be a Catholic, but now don't believe it. I am not a Catholic, however I am referring to God the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. If you draw near to him, he will draw near to you, because he loves you. Why are you so interested in miracles?
SamStevens says2014-06-17T13:18:17.1093678-05:00
Well yes, I used to be a catholic when I was little. Basically from the point when parents teach you their religion. I actually swallowed it. I believed god created us, noah's ark, adam and eve and heaven. I also went to church. Then I read about evolution in a children's encyclopedia at about 7-8 years old and it went down hill from there. Now I am an atheist. I am interested in miracles because many it is often pass over as a fact. A person can cry praying helped cure a cancer patient. You would have to do multiple tests and trials before you can reach a result. Also, there are a number of possibilities/variables in the video you presented, like a placebo effect. Also, it is 3 guys on the street in poor lighting conditions. There were no measurements of his legs before and after the treatment. We really don't know their past medical records. People typically pick and choose. They call it a miracle if it happens to have the desired result. -This video explains some on the topics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDHJ4ztnldQ- "You say on your profile that you used to be a Catholic, but now don't believe it." I was one in the past, now I am not.
mishapqueen says2014-06-17T17:59:34.6028989-05:00
Here is another link: https://www.Youtube.Com/watch?V=HwYjC4AUbzA If you skip to about three minutes, you will see Todd White praying for someone who like scientific explanations. You might be interested in viewing it. It is in broad daylight. As to the placebo effect, we have already gone over this. I have heard your concerns and you have heard my responses. I watched half of your movie, but honestly I couldn't get through it. By the way, God DOES heal amputees. Take it or leave it. Atheistbus.Ca/2009/04/01/god-heals-amputee-first-ever-to-be-recorded-by-doctors/ I couldn't finish your video because it was taking things out of context and misunderstanding the main point. I'm sorry, I tried. Maybe I can watch the rest another time.
SamStevens says2014-06-17T18:40:22.0404032-05:00
So if it is out of context, in what context is it okay for a god to remove a kidney stone, but allow kids to starve to death in a poor African country? In what context is it okay for a god to ignore an amputee's prayers for a full limb, but answer another person's prayer, for example, a pay raise? With the amputee site, I have tried to search her, but nothing about legs growing back showed up. Surely, since it would be a huge scientific discovery, there would be more information about her. It mentioned scientists in the article. What scientist? It does not list their names nor their credentials. Why isn't there a before and after picture of her legs? Why isn't their a picture of her instead of a girl standing on a rock, who's face you can barley make out? Her body is basically a shadow, it does not show anything to prove their case. I can say a person grew back a finger( which actually did happen), make a website, show a man in the distance with very poor lighting quality to actually see their body, leave out before and after pictures, say scientists were confused, and pass it off as real. Also, it was written on April 1st. So it seems a little fishy.-----------------With the Todd White video, no measurements were taken before and after. Is it only temporary or will the person feel the pain the next morning? It really does not matter if the person likes scientific explanations, they are only human. And with that, a placebo effect can take place, after all, she did not even know what caused her pain.
mishapqueen says2014-06-17T19:20:03.2141181-05:00
You are assuming that the death and starvation is God's fault. It is not. We sinned, and brought the consequences of it into the world. If you have a problem with the starving children in Africa, talk to the church. God has given his church the responsibility to care for them, and if it isn't happening, it's our fault. http://www.klove.com/music/artists/matthew-west/songs/do-something-lyrics.aspx Here is another story. It isn't great, but do with it what you will. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZx6KdCyQfc True it could all be fake, but a lot of things could be fake. How do I know you are 16? Maybe you are just saying that to make friends or something. How can I know for certain you have a pet cockroach? You could just be making that up, or maybe it is just a figment of your imagination. I have no desire to deceive you on the subject of miracles. What would it do for me? I have done my best to answer your questions and give you the proof you request. I have given you personal experiences as well as internet examples. None have been good enough. The only thing that will ever convince you is to see it for yourself. If you want to see this in action, I recommend the Power and Love conference. You will see things there that will exercise your brain with all the questions swimming around. I have given you what I have, do with it what you will.
SamStevens says2014-06-17T20:01:02.8593953-05:00
I am not assuming death and starvation is god's fault. They just happened to be born in those conditions. But my question is why would their prayers be ignored yet more trivial prayers be answered like a pay raise. You mentioned that the video has taken various things out of context. Well in what context would that be acceptable? "How do I know you are 16? Maybe you are just saying that to make friends or something." Exactly, you don't know. But, that information has been the same before this discussion started. I didn't know how having the same age is an open door for accusations of fraternizing. It is merely a coincidence. "What would it do for me? I have done my best to answer your questions and give you the proof you request. I have given you personal experiences as well as internet examples. None have been good enough. " Well, those examples are full of variables and were only a single observation. One can make a similar claim to back up praying to a flying spaghetti monster works. The internet example of the amputee is very fishy. Also, regarding the other examples, there were no prior measurements of the leg when compared to the other. It is physically possible to purposely have your foot higher up while keeping a straight knee. Also, their previous medical background is obscure. On top of that, there is also the placebo effect."How can I know for certain you have a pet cockroach?" I do I know for certain your personal examples of type 1 diabetics being cured are real? So far, credited, scientific sources have showed diabetes is not curable since it stays with the person. "We sinned, and brought the consequences of it into the world." This brings me to the question, what is the evidence of god's existence. Why is your god true while others may considered as false prophets.
mishapqueen says2014-06-17T20:43:11.8445431-05:00
The comments section is now ridiculously long, so I propose we move our discussion to here: http://www.debate.org/forums/religion/topic/43287/
SamStevens says2014-06-17T20:52:36.8765431-05:00
Okay, lets continue the discussion in the forums.
mishapqueen says2014-06-17T21:14:45.7581386-05:00
I have posted my response in the forum I created.
joning.78 says2014-06-18T11:23:49.0702218-05:00
Micracle happens to everyone. I can breath it is the miracle. I was not born like monkey, this is miracle. Every second is a miracle inside our body and this universe is a miracle, a big ball floating in an empty vacum space.

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