Does the Islamic State properly follow Islam?

Posted by: UtherPenguin

I just found that "no" image too funny to not use at one point.

  • Yes

  • No

34% 15 votes
66% 29 votes
  • Sure they do. Are you part of some official "Islam standards" committee? They represent it with as much authority as anyone else.

    Posted by: TBR
  • Not all of it, but some of the violent verses are in the Quran. So, saying ISIS is completely against Islam is kinda dumb.

  • They are doing jihad, which is part of Sharia Law. They are following the disgusting Muslim religion to its fullest, but Muslim apologists will tell you otherwise because they do not want to admit that Islam is filth.

  • They are religious puritans, of course they do

  • Ya, all the violent verses are there. ISIS obeys them.

  • Yes. All religion is violent. Read a Bible or a Quran. It's just that everyone thinks ISIS are exceptionally horrible because 90% of Christians don't follow Christianity properly.

    Posted by: benhos
  • Yes, They terrorize non-believers because the Quaran taught them so.

  • For reasons too many for me to state, also cause I'm lazy liek daT.

  • i think just about all Muslims have stated that no Isis is not following Islam correctly because the qu'ran clearly states innocent people shouldn't be killed

  • Although the Quran has some...interesting verses, I'm not going to jump to conclusions when some believe them to be taken out of context.

  • They aren't offering people a chance to convert; instead, they commit outright genocide. I think that there was a verse somewhere where conversion at gunpoint is perfectly acceptable. The fact that they aren't offering that opportunity to people is telling of the fact that they are continuing what appears to be a scorched earth policy.

  • No, they have killed fellow Muslims, which is strictly forbidden and People of the Book (Christians and Jews). They are not following the early Muslim standard of tolerance for their fellow monotheists.

  • The Islamic State does not follow Islam. They follow their own mislead ideologies

  • They are the khawarij and the prophet SAW called the khawarij the worst of the creation.

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TBR says2015-08-30T01:47:54.3516143Z
This reeks of the same "they aren't TRUE Christians" statements. Ask anyone from ISIS, they will say THEY are the ones representing Islam properly. Unless and until all religions submits to some governing body, they each get equal credibility to call themselves "true".
UtherPenguin says2015-08-30T02:33:53.8907699Z
@TBR They blow up Shia mosques. It doesn't matter what sect we're talking about, the deliberate destruction of any place of worship to God is haram. They have a sex trade despite the fact that adultery is haram, et cetera et cetera. There is a reason why the vast majority of the Ulima rejects ISIS. They have multipledisturbing parallels to the Kharjites ( a heretical group)
UtherPenguin says2015-08-30T02:38:24.1364991Z
@bballcrook21 Firstly, Sharia Law came around after the Muhammad's (pbuh) death and has little to do with Jihad. Jihad isn't even about Holy War, Jihad just means "to struggle"
bballcrook21 says2015-08-30T02:43:24.2894969Z
Over the course of history, the Muslim world has had hundreds of battles that would be considered "jihad". Their incessant jihad spread across all of Northern Africa, Middle East, and parts of Spain and Eastern Europe. All Muslim jihads have been an act of aggression. There is a reason why Christianity does not have any terrorist groups. If you commit murder, no matter the reason, you are committing a major sin and you have to repent. In the Quran, or whatever book you draw that filth from, you are able to kill in the name of "Allah".
bballcrook21 says2015-08-30T02:43:39.9675974Z
I just got an idea, I should do a Muhammad drawing contest on ddo at some point.
tajshar2k says2015-08-30T02:45:53.4436195Z
@bballcrook21 Other than Islamic terrorists adding you to their hit-list, it isn't going to accomplish anything. Its provocative at its best. You are more than welcome to do it however, free speech beats it all.
UtherPenguin says2015-08-30T02:47:32.3501555Z
@bbalcrook21 Christians have had plenty of terrorist groups, just look at the Norwegian shootings in 2011. Secondly you have made sweeping generalizations by using absolutes like "All Muslim jihads have been an act of aggression", Jihad doesn't even mean holy war, it's not even an originally religious concept, it just means to struggle in Arabic. And where in the Quran is murder justified if done in God's name?
bballcrook21 says2015-08-30T02:48:58.5840398Z
I don't think there are any Islamic terrorists on this site. This is purely to be provocative, so you are right in that sense. On the other hand, that is the point of freedom of speech. I may or may not do a Muhammad drawing contest, but I will if I sense that there is a need to.
tajshar2k says2015-08-30T02:51:02.8388363Z
@Bballcrook21 This guy http://www.debate.org/slave123/ said he would find me and send me to hell. He even comes from our home states.
bballcrook21 says2015-08-30T02:51:06.9648583Z
Jihad to mean anything, but the context in which it is used is inflammatory. All acts that have been deemed "jihad" have been in aggression. "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing... But if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)" (Translation is from the Noble Quran) The verse prior to this (190) refers to "fighting for the cause of Allah those who fight you" leading some to believe that the entire passage refers to a defensive war in which Muslims are defending their homes and families. The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, however, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries. In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did). Verse 190 thus means to fight those who offer resistance to Allah's rule (ie. Muslim conquest). The use of the word "persecution" by some Muslim translators is disingenuous (the actual Arabic words for persecution - "idtihad" - and oppression - a variation of "z-l-m" - do not appear in the verse). The word used instead, "fitna", can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation. This is certainly what is meant in this context since the violence is explicitly commissioned "until religion is for Allah" - ie. Unbelievers desist in their unbelief. Quran (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things." Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot. Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help." Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. What Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah'). Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, who were led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. This is the theological basis for today's suicide bombers. Quran (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…" Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks." Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those of the believers who sit (at home), except those who are disabled (by injury or are blind or lame, etc.), and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives. Allah has preferred in grades those who strive hard and fight with their wealth and their lives above those who sit (at home). Unto each, Allah has promised good (Paradise), but Allah has preferred those who strive hard and fight, above those who sit (at home) by a huge reward " This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes. It also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Quran, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is this Arabic word (mujahiduna) used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad, which would not make sense if it meant an internal struggle). According to the verse, Allah will allow the disabled into Paradise, but will provide a larger reward to those who are able to kill others in his cause. Quran (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..." Is pursuing an injured and retreating enemy really an act of self-defense? Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement" Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle. Quran (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end." Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah" Some translations interpret "fitna" as "persecution", but the traditional understanding of this word is not supported by the historical context (See notes for 2:193). The Meccans were simply refusing Muhammad access to their city during Haj. Other Muslims were allowed to travel there - just not as an armed group, since Muhammad had declared war on Mecca prior to his eviction. The Meccans were also acting in defense of their religion, since it was Muhammad's intention to destroy their idols and establish Islam by force (which he later did). Hence the critical part of this verse is to fight until "religion is only for Allah", meaning that the true justification of violence was the unbelief of the opposition. According to the Sira (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 324) Muhammad further explains that "Allah must have no rivals." Quran (8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember." Quran (8:67) - "It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land..." Quran (8:59-60) - "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! They cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy." Quran (8:65) - "O Prophet, exhort the believers to fight..." Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them." According to this verse, the best way of staying safe from Muslim violence is to convert to Islam (prayer (salat) and the poor tax (zakat) are among the religion's Five Pillars). This popular claim that the Quran only inspires violence within the context of self-defense is seriously challenged by this passage as well, since the Muslims to whom it was written were obviously not under attack. Had they been, then there would have been no waiting period (earlier verses make it a duty for Muslims to fight in self-defense, even during the sacred months). The historical context is Mecca after the idolaters were subjugated by Muhammad and posed no threat. Once the Muslims had power, they violently evicted those unbelievers who would not convert. Quran (9:14) - "Fight against them so that Allah will punish them by your hands and disgrace them and give you victory over them and heal the breasts of a believing people." Humiliating and hurting non-believers not only has the blessing of Allah, but it is ordered as a means of carrying out his punishment and even "healing" the hearts of Muslims. Quran (9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant." The Arabic word interpreted as "striving" in this verse is the same root as "Jihad". The context is obviously holy war. Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." "People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews. According to this verse, they are to be violently subjugated, with the sole justification being their religious status. Verse 9:33 tells Muslims that Allah has charted them to make Islam "superior over all religions." This chapter was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in the next 100 years. Islam is intended to dominate all other people and faiths. Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!" Quran (9:38-39) - "O ye who believe! What is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place." This is a warning to those who refuse to fight, that they will be punished with Hell. Quran (9:41) - "Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! That is best for you if ye but knew." See also the verse that follows (9:42) - "If there had been immediate gain (in sight), and the journey easy, they would (all) without doubt have followed thee, but the distance was long, (and weighed) on them" This contradicts the myth that Muslims are to fight only in self-defense, since the wording implies that battle will be waged a long distance from home (in another country and on Christian soil, in this case, according to the historians). Quran (9:73) - "O Prophet! Strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination." Dehumanizing those who reject Islam, by reminding Muslims that unbelievers are merely firewood for Hell, makes it easier to justify slaughter. It also explains why today's devout Muslims have little regard for those outside the faith. Quran (9:88) - "But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper." Quran (9:111) - "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Quran: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? Then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme." How does the Quran define a true believer? Quran (9:123) - "O you who believe! Fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness." Quran (17:16) - "And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction." Note that the crime is moral transgression, and the punishment is "utter destruction." (Before ordering the 9/11 attacks, Osama bin Laden first issued Americans an invitation to Islam). Quran (18:65-81) - This parable lays the theological groundwork for honor killings, in which a family member is murdered because they brought shame to the family, either through apostasy or perceived moral indiscretion. The story (which is not found in any Jewish or Christian source) tells of Moses encountering a man with "special knowledge" who does things which don't seem to make sense on the surface, but are then justified according to later explanation. One such action is to murder a youth for no apparent reason (74). However, the wise man later explains that it was feared that the boy would "grieve" his parents by "disobedience and ingratitude." He was killed so that Allah could provide them a 'better' son. (Note: This is one reason why honor killing is sanctioned by Sharia. Reliance of the Traveler (Umdat al-Saliq) says that punishment for murder is not applicable when a parent or grandparent kills their offspring (o.1.1-2).) Quran (21:44) - "We gave the good things of this life to these men and their fathers until the period grew long for them; See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?" Quran (25:52) - "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness..." "Strive against" is Jihad - obviously not in the personal context. It's also significant to point out that this is a Meccan verse. Quran (33:60-62) - "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter." This passage sanctions the slaughter (rendered "merciless" and "horrible murder" in other translations) against three groups: Hypocrites (Muslims who refuse to "fight in the way of Allah" (3:167) and hence don't act as Muslims should), those with "diseased hearts" (which include Jews and Christians 5:51-52), and "alarmists" or "agitators who include those who merely speak out against Islam, according to Muhammad's biographers. It is worth noting that the victims are to be sought out by Muslims, which is what today's terrorists do. If this passage is meant merely to apply to the city of Medina, then it is unclear why it is included in Allah's eternal word to Muslim generations. Quran (47:3-4) - "Those who disbelieve follow falsehood, while those who believe follow the truth from their Lord... So, when you meet (in fight Jihad in Allah's Cause), those who disbelieve smite at their necks till when you have killed and wounded many of them, then bind a bond firmly (on them, i.e. take them as captives)... If it had been Allah's Will, He Himself could certainly have punished them (without you). But (He lets you fight), in order to test you, some with others. But those who are killed in the Way of Allah, He will never let their deeds be lost." Those who reject Allah are to be killed in Jihad. The wounded are to be held captive for ransom. The only reason Allah doesn't do the dirty work himself is to to test the faithfulness of Muslims. Those who kill pass the test. Quran (47:35) - "Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost (Shakir: "have the upper hand") for Allah is with you," Quran (48:17) - "There is no blame for the blind, nor is there blame for the lame, nor is there blame for the sick (that they go not forth to war). And whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow; and whoso turneth back, him will He punish with a painful doom." Contemporary apologists sometimes claim that Jihad means 'spiritual struggle.' Is so, then why are the blind, lame and sick exempted? This verse also says that those who do not fight will suffer torment in hell. Quran (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves" Islam is not about treating everyone equally. This verse tells Muslims that there are two very distinct standards that are applied based on religious status. Also the word used for 'hard' or 'ruthless' in this verse shares the same root as the word translated as 'painful' or severe' to describe Hell in over 25 other verses including 65:10, 40:46 and 50:26.. Quran (61:4) - "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way" Religion of Peace, indeed! The verse explicitly refers to "battle array" meaning that it is speaking of physical conflict. This is followed by (61:9): "He it is who has sent His Messenger (Mohammed) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam) to make it victorious over all religions even though the infidels may resist." (See next verse, below). Infidels who resist Islamic rule are to be fought. Quran (61:10-12) - "O You who believe! Shall I guide you to a commerce that will save you from a painful torment. That you believe in Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad ), and that you strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with your wealth and your lives, that will be better for you, if you but know! (If you do so) He will forgive you your sins, and admit you into Gardens under which rivers flow, and pleasant dwelling in Gardens of 'Adn - Eternity ['Adn (Edn) Paradise], that is indeed the great success." This verse refers to physical battle in order to make Islam victorious over other religions (see above). It uses the Arabic word, Jihad. Quran (66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end." The root word of "Jihad" is used again here. The context is clearly holy war, and the scope of violence is broadened to include "hypocrites" - those who call themselves Muslims but do not act as such.
bballcrook21 says2015-08-30T02:51:47.1514887Z
This is from the Hadith: Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him." Bukhari (52:256) - The Prophet... Was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They (i.E. Women and children) are from them (i.E. Pagans)." In this command, Muhammad establishes that it is permissible to kill non-combatants in the process of killing a perceived enemy. This provides justification for the many Islamic terror bombings. Bukhari (52:65) - The Prophet said, 'He who fights that Allah's Word, Islam, should be superior, fights in Allah's Cause. Muhammad's words are the basis for offensive Jihad - spreading Islam by force. This is how it was understood by his companions, and by the terrorists of today. Bukhari (52:220) - Allah's Apostle said... 'I have been made victorious with terror' Abu Dawud (14:2526) - The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Three things are the roots of faith: to refrain from (killing) a person who utters, "There is no god but Allah" and not to declare him unbeliever whatever sin he commits, and not to excommunicate him from Islam for his any action; and jihad will be performed continuously since the day Allah sent me as a prophet until the day the last member of my community will fight with the Dajjal (Antichrist) Abu Dawud (14:2527) - The Prophet said: Striving in the path of Allah (jihad) is incumbent on you along with every ruler, whether he is pious or impious Muslim (1:33) - the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah Bukhari (8:387) - Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah'. And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally." Muslim (1:30) - "The Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people so long as they do not declare that there is no god but Allah." Bukhari (52:73) - "Allah's Apostle said, 'Know that Paradise is under the shades of swords'." Bukhari (11:626) - [Muhammad said:] "I decided to order a man to lead the prayer and then take a flame to burn all those, who had not left their houses for the prayer, burning them alive inside their homes." Muslim (1:149) - "Abu Dharr reported: I said: Messenger of Allah, which of the deeds is the best? He (the Holy Prophet) replied: Belief in Allah and Jihad in His cause..." Muslim (20:4645) - "...He (the Messenger of Allah) did that and said: There is another act which elevates the position of a man in Paradise to a grade one hundred (higher), and the elevation between one grade and the other is equal to the height of the heaven from the earth. He (Abu Sa'id) said: What is that act? He replied: Jihad in the way of Allah! Jihad in the way of Allah!" Muslim (20:4696) - "the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: 'One who died but did not fight in the way of Allah nor did he express any desire (or determination) for Jihad died the death of a hypocrite.'" Muslim (19:4321-4323) - Three separate hadith in which Muhammad shrugs over the news that innocent children were killed in a raid by his men against unbelievers. His response: "They are of them (meaning the enemy)." Muslim (19:4294) - "When the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) appointed anyone as leader of an army or detachment he would especially exhort him... He would say: Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war... When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them... If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them." Bukhari 1:35 "The person who participates in (Holy Battles) in Allah’s cause and nothing compels him do so except belief in Allah and His Apostle, will be recompensed by Allah either with a reward, or booty ( if he survives) or will be admitted to Paradise ( if he is killed)." Tabari 7:97 The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, "Kill any Jew who falls under your power." Ashraf was a poet, killed by Muhammad's men because he insulted Islam. Here, Muhammad widens the scope of his orders to kill. An innocent Jewish businessman was then slain by his Muslim partner, merely for being non-Muslim. Tabari 9:69 "Killing Unbelievers is a small matter to us" The words of Muhammad, prophet of Islam. Tabari 17:187 "'By God, our religion (din) from which we have departed is better and more correct than that which these people follow. Their religion does not stop them from shedding blood, terrifying the roads, and seizing properties.' And they returned to their former religion." The words of a group of Christians who had converted to Islam, but realized their error after being shocked by the violence and looting committed in the name of Allah. The price of their decision to return to a religion of peace was that the men were beheaded and the woman and children enslaved by the caliph Ali. Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 484: - “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’” Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 990: - Lest anyone think that cutting off someone's head while screaming 'Allah Akbar!' is a modern creation, here is an account of that very practice under Muhammad, who seems to approve. Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 992: - "Fight everyone in the way of Allah and kill those who disbelieve in Allah." Muhammad's instructions to his men prior to a military raid. Saifur Rahman, The Sealed Nectar p.227-228 - "Embrace Islam... If you two accept Islam, you will remain in command of your country; but if your refuse my Call, you’ve got to remember that all of your possessions are perishable. My horsemen will appropriate your land, and my Prophethood will assume preponderance over your kingship." One of several letters from Muhammad to rulers of other countries. The significance is that the recipients were not making war or threatening Muslims. Their subsequent defeat and subjugation by Muhammad's armies was justified merely on the basis of their unbelief.
tajshar2k says2015-08-30T02:53:55.3399755Z
I seriously was considering reporting him to the FBI.
bballcrook21 says2015-08-30T02:53:58.3196519Z
Wow Tajshar, that guy lives very close to me. I'm in Chicago and he resides in Illinois as well. Let them use threats, just turn him over to the FBI and be done with it. Also can you send me the link to when he said he would send you to hell?
tajshar2k says2015-08-30T02:55:03.5137235Z
He P.M'ed me.
bballcrook21 says2015-08-30T02:57:51.0308187Z
https://talkgadget.google.com/hangouts/_/g53sgjnef5rcrxhkzobmh2mdrqa I am on google hangouts. What was the context of him sending you this threatening message? You live in Naperville, which does not have as many idiotic gun laws as Chicago does. Just purchase a firearm, and if someone tries to act upon their threats, send some bullets in their direction. Very easy, very quick, and efficient. If only prison sentences or death penalties were carried out like this.
bballcrook21 says2015-08-30T02:58:31.8102643Z
https://hangouts.google.com/?authuser=2 new link
TBR says2015-08-30T03:00:01.0289519Z
@UtherPenguin - Do you think they don't justify those actions using the same religion? Sure they do. The same religion you use to condemn them, they use to condemn you.
bballcrook21 says2015-08-30T03:01:16.6885867Z
https://talkgadget.google.com/hangouts/_/gwxrutse33xuyseifa7bdiilrua
tajshar2k says2015-08-30T03:04:06.4171067Z
Bballcrook21, Okay, I don't think we need to get that worried. So we can calm down. He called me a homosexual pig and hoped he all I would die in hell as I was an atheist.Not sure if it was a direct threat, but no need to panic.
tajshar2k says2015-08-30T03:06:01.4825968Z
I can't go on google hangouts right now. But, no need to panic. He hasn't been online like forever. I already told Airmax this a while back.
TBR says2015-08-30T03:07:16.6438786Z
Die in hell? Shouldn't you die first? Tell you what. Next time you see him around call him a poop-face for me.
triangle.128k says2015-08-30T03:07:30.9225203Z
@bballcrook21 Jesus Christ, no need for Great wall of Chi- I mean text.
tajshar2k says2015-08-30T03:07:42.4620441Z
I hope I never see him again.
bballcrook21 says2015-08-30T03:10:37.5887175Z
If I were to meet that man on ddo, he might be the first ever person to witness we swearing on this site. Keyword "might". Maybe I can hold out and not insult that Muslim filth.
tajshar2k says2015-08-30T03:11:37.8831532Z
It started when I voted against him on his debate. You can check his debates against JuniorVarsityNovice. He starts calling me a homosexual pig and it basically developed.
bballcrook21 says2015-08-30T03:12:38.5855847Z
I'm going to Boston tomorrow, so I will not be present on ddo for a couple of days. I will try to bring my computer, so I might actually get on. I will be on google hangouts though.
tajshar2k says2015-08-30T03:13:57.1764461Z
Not sure if he still lives in Orland Park, but I'm guessing that pretty close to Lincoln Park. Your area has alot of muslims I heard. The state itself has the most muslims.
triangle.128k says2015-08-30T03:19:12.8873705Z
@tajshar2k Lol, slave123 believes the Earth is flat.
tajshar2k says2015-08-30T03:19:42.5002597Z
Ya... He's pretty crazy.
UtherPenguin says2015-08-30T04:25:54.1869198Z
@bballcrook21 Dude, you literally copied and pasted that entire argument from religionofpeace.Org , did you even read the context of the hadiths?
tajshar2k says2015-08-30T14:29:32.2448828Z
Uther, how about you explain it to us.
TBR says2015-08-30T14:45:43.5383090Z
This honestly was a new one to me, and made me giggle "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him." Bukhari (52:256)" but then again, I spend a fair amount of time giggling at religious text.
UtherPenguin says2015-08-30T17:05:01.7598870Z
@tajshar2k There too many hadith he reference to for me too explain all of them. The one @TBR mentioned was only meant to be a sign of Judgement Day. As seen in "The Hour will not occur" before the hadith.
TBR says2015-08-30T17:19:50.1543818Z
Uther - regardless, it's religious comedy gold.
UtherPenguin says2015-08-30T17:21:48.8555427Z
@Tajshar2k in any hadith which begins with " The Hour will not occur until" then it is making direct reference to Judgement Day. @TBR Well that's your opinion.
tajshar2k says2015-08-30T17:46:08.2181527Z
So, if it's judgement day, you are allowed to kill a jew?
UtherPenguin says2015-08-30T17:48:25.9705677Z
@tajshar2k No, because the hadith is talking about a future conflict with the Jews in which that would be the case.
tajshar2k says2015-08-30T17:52:00.6511567Z
So, the Quran, is making an hypothesis that a conflict with Jews may occur, so you should kill them? Why on earth would such a verse exist? Isn't it common sense that if somebody attacks you, you defend yourself?
UtherPenguin says2015-08-30T17:54:08.3847755Z
@tajshar2k That wasn't from the Quran, that's from the Hadith there is a huge difference. And as I mentioned before, the order to kill the Jew only came as a result of war, to which the opponent is also attempting to kill you. It is not like another Holocaust or Spanish Inquisition.
tajshar2k says2015-08-30T17:55:19.0688286Z
But, its a hypothetical war. Not something that actually happened.
UtherPenguin says2015-08-30T17:57:10.3911422Z
@tajshar2k Not something that is to happen yet. That is the context of the hadith.
TBR says2015-08-30T17:57:30.4280177Z
RIght. Its about a future conflict where rocks tell you where the Jews are hiding. I get it completely.
UtherPenguin says2015-08-30T17:58:48.8589734Z
@TBR It is impossible to tell when this war would occur, hence it's impossible to tell the level of technological progress or regress that would occur during that time.
tajshar2k says2015-08-30T18:00:42.5325747Z
Could you explain this one?
TBR says2015-08-30T18:01:06.4949427Z
@UtherPenguin - Got it. So, in the distant future, when the sentient rocks have allied with the Muslims in a war with the jews... Its gets better.
UtherPenguin says2015-08-30T18:01:29.6928862Z
@tajshar2k Which one?
tajshar2k says2015-08-30T18:02:14.8738940Z
Qur'an 2:191: And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers. It didn't post last time for some reason.
tajshar2k says2015-08-30T18:04:17.9586830Z
@TBR Wait? The ""O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him." was actually part of it!?! I thought you just added that for sarcastic humor. ROFL
UtherPenguin says2015-08-30T18:04:39.1453582Z
@tajshar2k Arguably one of the most misunderstood verses of the Quran. Nouman Ali Khan explains it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2P9aXIPEWc
tajshar2k says2015-08-30T18:08:29.4867407Z
Ok, before I watch further, he keeps talking about perspective. So... Would what he is talking about be his perspective on the verse?
UtherPenguin says2015-08-30T18:09:27.9106132Z
@TBR The point of a miracle is to be beyond all logical explanation. If there was a logical explanation behind a rock being able to talk, Non-Muslims would have used that explanation. But since there is no logical explanation for sentient rocks, then it shows that only God could have been capable of doing it. Much of the signs of Judgement Day are at a similarly outlandish level, because it directly shows that Judgement Day is real and near. One of the signs were to be that the sun would rise from West to East for example. Failure to understand that runs the risk of the personal incredulity fallacy.
UtherPenguin says2015-08-30T18:11:34.9454847Z
@tajshar2k No, in order to understand the analogy you need watch further. Much of his tafsir videos involve long analogies in order to fully understand the verse.
TBR says2015-08-30T18:24:07.3426194Z
@UtherPenguin - When rocks start pointing out Jews for me to kill, I will believe in your God. Until that day, I will giggle with glee at the silly that is religion. All of them.
TBR says2015-08-30T18:40:42.0610802Z
@UtherPenguin - Wow, I watched that video, and it's worse than I had understood it to be. Muhammad WAS kicked out for being a bit of a pain in the ass (and declaring war) I don't think you or the video deny that. Many Muslims leave with Muhammad and make preparations for the war to come (right?). What I didn't know what that line was for AFTER the war. Forgive me for assuming that was a part of the war. So, after the war, Muhammad insists that they convert (giving them all of 4 months) leave (THEIR HOMES/Businesses/Families) or we will kill you (AFTER THE WAR). Nice!
UtherPenguin says2015-08-30T18:45:25.0229492Z
@TBR That was all in response to the Quraysh boycott, in which Muslims were heavily persecuted. The Muslims didn't leave for being a "pain in the ass", they left because their lives were in legitimate danger.
UtherPenguin says2015-08-30T18:48:37.0963052Z
@TBR During said boycott, Muslims were ostracized, starved and threatened with death. Muhammad (pbuh) faced MULTIPLE assasination attempts by the Quraysh solely for preaching. Even after the Hijriah, Muhammad (pbuh) was faced with threats by the Quraysh.
TBR says2015-08-30T18:49:27.5171212Z
@UtherPenguin - I won't quibble if most/all/or just Muhammad were being persecuted or lives were in danger, it seems to make little difference. How about the other part? This decree was AFTER the war. Is that correct? Convert or we will kill you. Leave (YOUR homes, families, businesses) convert or die. Is that right? Am I getting that much correct?
TBR says2015-08-30T18:53:21.0722067Z
And as to being a pain in the ass, he most certainly was to the leadership in Mecca. You denying that?
UtherPenguin says2015-08-30T18:56:42.9114757Z
@TBR Nelson Mandela was a pain in the ass to the apartheid government, Martin Luther King was a pain in the ass to the segratationalists. The preaching may have annoyed some of the Quraysh, but that does not justify a boycott and the assassination attempts. The only people that were actually killed after the four month period were people who actually contributed to starting the war, including several people guilty of murder.
TBR says2015-08-30T19:01:00.5019002Z
@UtherPenguin - "Nelson Mandela was a pain in the ass to the apartheid government, Martin Luther King was a pain in the ass to the segratationalists." - no doubt. Just as there is no doubt Muhammad was being a pain in the ass. || "The only people that were actually killed after the four month period were people who actually contributed to starting the war, including several people guilty of murder." - Were any of them forced to convert? Did any have to leave THEIR homes, businesses and families under threat of death?
UtherPenguin says2015-08-30T19:07:12.7913496Z
@TBR "Did any have to leave THEIR homes, businesses and families under threat of death?" Non that I could recall. You must also note that Muhammad(pbuh) was from Mecca, and during the Hijirah, the Muslims were the ones forced to leave their businesses and families as they were also under not only the threat of death but also mass persecution. Mecca and Medina is the only city in which this case scenario occurred.
TBR says2015-08-30T19:11:43.8861088Z
@UtherPenguin - I have doubts that none were killed, forced to leave, but I am sure many were forced to convert. Let's say I buy all of it. It still is a utterly unkind decree. Lets use Jews and Palestine. Say the Israelis were to say "All Muslims must either convert to Judaism or get the he11 out by 12/01/2016 or we will kill them wherever we find them.". I would call that an ultra violent and unfair decree.
TBR says2015-08-30T19:42:09.6906126Z
It is... Helpful I guess to have seen that video. Tell you the truth, I had dismissed this line long ago, but the way he explains it I have renewed distain. I guess I really did think this was before or during the war, not after it was completed. Many times I have seen it quoted and complained as out of context. I would have defended that as, when used people imply this is a blanket decree rather than a for a specific conflict. Now... Well, it sure seems more hostile than I was willing to buy.
Varrack says2015-08-31T21:02:44.7861811Z
Not really sure what to say to all this, but ok.
Huntress says2015-08-31T21:19:27.9699031Z
Many people have misconceptions about Muhammad, because they take the Quran of context and read it without any commentary, or only know Islam by groups like al-Qaeda and ISIS. The truth is, believe in his message or not, he left the Arabs a far more advanced and civilized people than he found them. They practiced female infanticide in Arabia and men could inherit their father's wives, yet he leaves a country where women have inheritance rights of their own and the right to sue for a divorce. You can't look at anyone living over a millennium ago through modern eyes and judge them fairly. I don't think ISIS follows either the letter or spirit of Muhammad's message.
TBR says2015-08-31T21:34:15.1051845Z
@Huntress - That would all be fine if not for the fact that people use these people as models for how to live TODAY.
bballcrook21 says2015-08-31T21:36:58.9688511Z
Can we all just agree that Islam is filth and stop continuing this thread because the notification spam is getting annoying.
tajshar2k says2015-08-31T21:37:13.1551482Z
Exactly the point. I understand that stuff was considered okay, but the problem is people are using that in today's world. That is why I such dislike to Islam, compared to Christianity. I can tolerate it, if you just live that life in your OWN COUNTRY, but you immigrate to democratic/free countries, and expect people to change, I have a big problem with that. Its just crazy, how many people take the Quran word for word. 15 to 25 percent of muslims are radical followers. THats atleast 150 million to 300 million followers.
UtherPenguin says2015-08-31T21:57:07.9259861Z
@tajshar2k You are basing your distaste of Islam on sterotypes and sweeping generalizations. Only two percent of Muslims have a favourable opinion of Al Qaeda ( http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/religion/man-behind-mosque/america-and-muslims-by-the-numbers/ ). And the ironic thing is that you want Muslims to change, yet are annoyed when it goes vice versa. The fact you agreed with @bballcrook21's previous statement only further illustrates that.
bballcrook21 says2015-08-31T21:58:47.4383861Z
Any poll regarding opinions that are very risky is going to have a large margin of error. Many Muslims in Democratic countries want Sharia Law, but will not admit that they have a favorable view of any terrorist organization because they fear being prosecuted.
UtherPenguin says2015-08-31T21:59:17.5619861Z
@bballcrook21 Proof?
bballcrook21 says2015-08-31T22:02:40.8144183Z
Yes, let me just ask my friendly neighborhood Sharia Law activist, and then I will get back to you with that. Did you not read my statement or just completely ignore it?
UtherPenguin says2015-08-31T22:05:06.3165510Z
@bballcrook21 I read your statement, I still don't see your proof.
TBR says2015-08-31T22:06:22.3670385Z
@bballcrook21 - Do you want laws based on Christianity?
TBR says2015-08-31T22:09:18.1765731Z
@UtherPenguin - I was surprised to find this. http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/ "According to the survey findings, most Muslims believe sharia is the revealed word of God rather than a body of law developed by men based on the word of God. Muslims also tend to believe sharia has only one, true understanding, but this opinion is far from universal; i"
bballcrook21 says2015-08-31T22:09:50.1447704Z
I am Christian myself, but I would immediately leave the nation if laws were based upon religion.
TBR says2015-08-31T22:10:02.3881067Z
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/ this supprised me.
tajshar2k says2015-08-31T22:11:00.0783859Z
UtherPenguin, Being radical, doesn't always mean you support Al-Qaeda. Does ISIS support Al-Qaeda? Both are fighting each other.
Huntress says2015-08-31T22:11:50.4676779Z
A very good point, @TBR and @tajshar2k. I still think though, keeping the exact topic of the poll in mind, the extremist groups go beyond what Sharia Law allows. And I'm most definitely not advocating either.
UtherPenguin says2015-08-31T22:12:23.6341283Z
@TBR It's not Sharia/Theocratic law that I have a problem with, the problem I had was that bballcrock claimed that more Muslims had sympathy towards Al-Qaeda and other groups despite his lack of evidence.
tajshar2k says2015-08-31T22:12:28.5169856Z
And your source is only for American muslims. You do realize American Muslims are among the most liberal in the the world right? Post 9/11 immigration has made it very difficult for nutjobs to enter the country.
tajshar2k says2015-08-31T22:14:23.8797251Z
Exactly, bballcrook is right. Rarely any muslim will ever admit to supporting a terrorist group. They all ready know the NSA is keeping an eye out for them, so why would they even say something remotely agreeing with Radical Jihadist outside America?
tajshar2k says2015-08-31T22:17:33.6957925Z
Uther, when you immigrate to a country, it is expected that you incorporate some of that countries culture into your life. If I moved to Saudi Arabia, I'm not going to act like the typical Outgoing American.
UtherPenguin says2015-08-31T22:17:41.5017919Z
@tajshar2k How could american Muslims be the most liberal if "post 9/11 immigration nutjobs" came to the country? That contradicts itself. If more Muslims are terrorist-sympathizing then explain why the majority of Muslim countries in the Levant (Lebanon, Kuwait, Jordan, Turkey and Saudi) are fighting against ISIS?
TBR says2015-08-31T22:18:47.4648333Z
@UtherPenguin - Fair enough. Just reading crap on Sharia now. Can we all just stop mixing religion and government already?
bballcrook21 says2015-08-31T22:19:39.5490187Z
@tajshar2k, I agree. If I were to go to a Muslim nation, I would have to go along with their culture of stoning gays and looking down upon women as inferior to men. If I went to a European nation such as France, I would have to smell the scent of European Socialism.
UtherPenguin says2015-08-31T22:20:13.6651673Z
@TBR That would be a perfect topic for a debate, unfortunately I don't have the time for one after Tuesday.
UtherPenguin says2015-08-31T22:22:28.9648346Z
@tajshar2k Once more, you've made the generalization, saying that Muslims do not conform properly with Western culture.
bballcrook21 says2015-08-31T22:23:12.7855155Z
Islam is filth. I will leave it at that.
tajshar2k says2015-08-31T22:23:28.9316190Z
@Utherpenguin Reread my comment. I'm saying post 9/11 immigration has prevented radicals from entering the United States. That is why American most of the muslims in America are somewhat more liberal. Compare this to muslims in Europe. Liberals in Europe have been too nice, and are now paying the price. So, when you give statistics about the majority of muslims not being radical, 1, immigration has done its job, 2, not many muslims in their right mind will proclaim they support a jihadist organization.
UtherPenguin says2015-08-31T22:27:46.2762176Z
@tajshar2k There are several accounts of radicalized Muslims openly declaring their radicalization, just look at Al-Kanadi (I forgot his original name) and Farah Shirdon. Radicals are not afraid to openly declare their allegiances.
TBR says2015-08-31T22:33:32.8738904Z
To any of the Muslims on the thread. Do you think they (ISIS etc.) think they are properly follow Islam?
tajshar2k says2015-08-31T22:40:15.6684724Z
@Utherpenguin, Exactly, which explains why ISIS is continuing to grab land in the Levant, and these countries have done nothing to stop their advance. The U.S is entirely hopeless in this battle, because its alies aren't doing anything remotely useful.
UtherPenguin says2015-08-31T22:49:53.2153746Z
@tajshar2k That's because the US doesn't have the right allies. Countries like Germany and the UK are continents away from the Levant,they do not have a strong enough incentive or interests to properly fight ISIS, and it's not necessarily their fault in being so. Countries like Turkey, Saudi and Iran are needed as allies because they have huge incentive to contain ISIS and much interest in doing so.
TBR says2015-08-31T23:09:31.7447077Z
@UtherPenguin - The US is 7,000 miles from the middle east. The UK is like 2,500k. None of have ANY reason to be there. Except commercial interests
triangle.128k says2015-08-31T23:11:08.1959475Z
@UtherPenguin That would be pretty unusual, 3 countries that hate each other actually working together.
UtherPenguin says2015-08-31T23:13:24.2600197Z
@triangle The bickering rivals uniting against a common enemy is a very common pattern in history: http://img.niadd.com/funnypictures/polandball/58/germanyis.png
UtherPenguin says2015-08-31T23:14:31.8864532Z
@TBR Exactly.
triangle.128k says2015-08-31T23:15:15.5823333Z
Isn't Turkey the strongest out of the 3 countries though? They have the larger economy and they have the 10th most powerful military.
UtherPenguin says2015-08-31T23:17:15.6095027Z
@triangle.128k Another perfect reason to have them fight against ISIS.
tajshar2k says2015-08-31T23:27:17.3300297Z
Here is what Turkey has been doing. Doesn't give the U.S access to it's airports, completely avoided taking part in the coalition until the very last moment, literally waited hoping ISIS would wipe out the Kurdish Rebels. Great Allies.
TBR says2015-08-31T23:27:40.2219066Z
@UtherPenguin - No one is stopping the other countries in the area from doing what they want with ISIS. My only point is, we are done. I don't want to hear one more ridiculous justification for US involvement. We have ~4 million refugees to deal with now, that may get as high as 10 million. I would be happy for us to concentrate on helping them and leave that pit of he11 to whomever wants it.
triangle.128k says2015-08-31T23:28:42.2118061Z
@tajshar2k well at least Turkey isn't a theocracy.
tajshar2k says2015-08-31T23:29:05.8308117Z
When I said allies, I meant Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon.
tajshar2k says2015-08-31T23:30:18.5754769Z
@UtherPenguin I never said all radicals were.
triangle.128k says2015-08-31T23:30:20.3851233Z
@tajshar2k I thought the US and Lebanon hated each other?
UtherPenguin says2015-08-31T23:30:58.0155745Z
@tajshar That is the fundamental problem with the US led coalition: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0G4nUFfvR9A
tajshar2k says2015-08-31T23:31:43.0672433Z
The governments don't. The people absolutley hate the U.S.
UtherPenguin says2015-08-31T23:31:55.7515446Z
@triangle.128k Not really, Hezbollah might, but they aren't in the government
triangle.128k says2015-08-31T23:33:23.4090161Z
@tajshar2k For what, they're like the 2nd freest nation after Israel?
tajshar2k says2015-08-31T23:35:10.2561557Z
@triangle.128k Exactly.
UtherPenguin says2015-08-31T23:35:21.1580613Z
@triangle.128k It's because of the US's support of Israel.
tajshar2k says2015-08-31T23:35:54.5924925Z
I don't think Israel is #2 in Free.
UtherPenguin says2015-08-31T23:36:54.9036389Z
@triangle.128k The establishment of Israel in the 40's prompted much of the Arab population to feeling threatened. Hence leading to the tensions between Lebanon and Israel.
tajshar2k says2015-08-31T23:38:25.6355653Z
@Utherpenguin. Caspianreport makes a good point. Air strikes won't destroy them. Only ground troops will. My question is, why should the U.S do it? What is stopping the other countries?
UtherPenguin says2015-08-31T23:39:43.9807741Z
@tajshar2k Watch further, he explains why.
tajshar2k says2015-08-31T23:46:07.1889997Z
So, basically its a lose-lose situation for the U.S.
tajshar2k says2015-08-31T23:47:49.1672562Z
Sending troops to fight ISIS is Syria will strengthen Assad, and Iran, will fighting Syria will strengthen ISIS.
UtherPenguin says2015-08-31T23:50:26.2492421Z
@tajshar2k Which is why US involvement would be counter-productive.
tajshar2k says2015-08-31T23:57:50.9698449Z
Yea, I never was advocating for U.S involvement btw. That would be stargate.
triangle.128k says2015-08-31T23:59:35.6801851Z
Stargate literally advocates for sending military intervention into any country that the US has a slight political disagreement with.
tajshar2k says2015-09-01T00:01:08.5021097Z
He's probably from Texas.
triangle.128k says2015-09-01T00:01:47.8754325Z
Why hate on Texas?
tajshar2k says2015-09-01T00:03:40.8244153Z
I don't know. I always feel people from Texas are war mongering cowboys.
Varrack says2015-09-01T00:04:10.9751498Z
Because Texaa has all the rednecks.
TBR says2015-09-01T00:06:29.9483517Z
Stargate has altruistic goals. Incredibly hawkish and myopic, but altruistic none the less.
triangle.128k says2015-09-01T00:07:40.1501517Z
@Varrack But I thought more redneck stereotypes apply to states like Alabama or Mississippi?
Varrack says2015-09-01T00:09:39.0296527Z
@triangle, well yeah. Basically the south.
TBR says2015-09-01T00:11:29.2264253Z
Redneckery has no hard border.
bballcrook21 says2015-09-01T01:07:56.5408725Z
I've debated stargate on United States involvement in foreign affairs and won. He has very hawkish ideas, but can't rationalize them all too well.
Huntress says2015-09-01T01:12:31.4515261Z
So how did this turn into a war on my state? I'm not a warmongering cowboy. I do have a horse, so maybe a bit cowboy/girlish, but I think we missed some alliance opportunities with Iran and Russia, honestly. I support the just war theory, but I think we should be questioning whether or not all the wars and military skirmishes we've had under the last two administrations were really just. Iraq was a disaster of epic proportions.
tajshar2k says2015-09-01T01:13:24.8137768Z
I hope I didn't offend anybody. I don't hate Texas lol.
tajshar2k says2015-09-01T01:14:52.0651361Z
But I have always hated George Bush.
Varrack says2015-09-01T01:20:41.0861734Z
I like Texas, and I'm an interventionist myself. We're just saying a bunch of stuff for lauhsy
Varrack says2015-09-01T01:20:56.0466693Z
*laughs
TBR says2015-09-01T01:22:23.2200281Z
@Huntress - I was born a Texan, but due an incident involving my eldest sibling making up mocking words for the "Texas our Texas" song we were forced to make a Sound Of Music style midnight escape.
bballcrook21 says2015-09-01T01:22:45.4657707Z
I believe in military selfishness. We should never intercede in a conflict and put Americans' lives on the line for other people who may turn around and burn our flag in the streets. We should only join wars when American interests get attacked, such as trade or oil. War in Iraq was useless and costly. Russia should be our ally, not our enemy.
Huntress says2015-09-01T01:27:51.3837317Z
I think we need to do something about ISIS and I support the War on Terror, but I think we do involve ourselves in foreign affairs more than we should and it often escalates the problem when our dealings are not correctly handled.
Huntress says2015-09-01T01:33:58.5625281Z
@TBR Well, we'll still count you. Hhaha @bballcrook21 Ultimately, I think we're both pretty much stating Trump's foreign policy platform. I don't think he's out and out said we should ally with Russia, and I think we probably missed the opportunity, but it would be nice if the nuclear superpowers could play nice. Didn't we learn our lesson with the first Cold War?
tajshar2k says2015-09-01T01:36:11.0099241Z
The U.S is officially screwed with ISIS. Fighting ISIS will only strengthen Al-Assad and Iran to an extent. Problems with that? Well, letting any ruler become powerful is literally a death sentence to America. Fighting Al-Assad will only making ISIS more powerful.
bballcrook21 says2015-09-01T01:36:50.8819900Z
If we removed Russia's sanctions, but told them to stop invading other territories and sovereign nations, then we could do great with this alliance. Russia is the only other power that has a nuclear stockpile close to the size of the United States. China is no issue as their entire economy is investment dependent, so a war with any major nation would destroy their economy completely.
BIlll2342 says2015-10-29T01:00:41.0012600Z
ISIS has nothing to do with Islam. Also the quran does say against judging people based on religion. The only part which talks about fighting is the part which talks about the war with the Qurayysh
ModerateAmerican says2019-05-04T00:42:04.1616949Z
@dietorangesoda said the most stupidest thing and I don't usually call people out but this was just pure stupidity. (1:24) But if you do not—and you will not—then beware the Fire whose fuel is people and stones, Prepared for the disbelievers. (1:40) O Children of Israel! Remember My blessings which I bestowed upon you, And fulfill your pledge to Me, And I will fulfill My pledge to you, And fear Me. (8:12) I will strike terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore, Strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them. (9:14) fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace (9:73) o prophet! Strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell and evil is their destination. (9:29) fight those who believe not in Allah nor the last day, Nor hold that forbidden with hath been forbidden by Allah and his messenger, Nor acknowledge the religion of truth, (even if they are) of the people of the book until they pay the jizya with willing submission and feel themselves subdued (48:29) Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves. They don't kill innocent people huh.

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