Fairness versus equality

Posted by: Discipulus_Didicit

If you had to choose to live in a perfectly fair world or one where everyone is perfectly equal, which would you choose?

Vote
38 Total Votes
1

Fairness

34 votes
8 comments
2

Equality

4 votes
1 comment
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(Maximum 900 words)
Discipulus_Didicit says2015-08-26T16:21:09.8477557Z
I personally prefer fairness, but voting on ones own poll seems narcissistic
Jonas16 says2015-08-26T16:29:16.4565030Z
Almost everybody does that but your call though
triangle.128k says2015-08-26T17:59:41.9580536Z
@Discipulus_Didicit Nearly everyone on here votes on their own polls, so it's not really narcissistic unless most people here are narcissistic.
Heterodox says2015-08-26T18:24:32.7348098Z
In your pictures you have tied capitalism to fairness and equality to the USSR, which I assume is to represent communism. Regardless, both worlds sound pretty boring so I would choose neither.
Discipulus_Didicit says2015-08-26T18:40:32.9677651Z
@triangle okay, I don't do the poll thing much so I didn't know most people did that. @Heterodox communist philosophy supports equality over fairness while capitalism does the opposite. Yes, both worlds presented are not as realistic or interesting as the real world, that is because both the options are extremes.
PericIes says2015-08-26T22:16:35.8600571Z
In a perfectly equal world, everything would be equally fair. In a perfectly fair world, everything would be perfectly equal.
gabep says2015-08-26T22:58:16.1144872Z
@Pericles - I agree, these should go hand in hand.
Discipulus_Didicit says2015-08-26T23:08:21.4919678Z
No no no you silly people, fairness and equality are not the same! If Bob and Billy have a pizza and Bob gets a most or all of it because he paid for the pizza that's fairness. If Bob and Billy both get exactly half of the pizza no matter who paid for it, that's equality.
PericIes says2015-08-26T23:39:43.6979471Z
Yes, they're not the same in our world, because our world is neither perfectly fair or perfectly equal. I'll try to explain this to you. If everything is perfectly equal, then everyone contributes and detracts the same amount, which means that everyone deserves the same treatment. They get the same treatment because this hypothetical world is perfectly equal, and, because they get what they deserve, this hypothetical world is also perfectly fair. If everything is perfectly fair, then no one detracts from others more than they deserve, and no one gets more than they deserve, which means that everything is perfectly equal.
PericIes says2015-08-26T23:40:32.9172091Z
*nor
Discipulus_Didicit says2015-08-27T00:08:00.8342949Z
The poll description DOES NOT say "hypothetically everything is perfectly equal" it says "hypothetically everyone is perfectly equal" therefore your statement "everyone contributes and detracts the same amount" is invalid, because their contributions and detractions are NOT necessarily equal, though everyones standard of living and happiness etc. is equal. Same goes for what you said about the hypothetical perfectly fair world. In a fair world a person who gives more contributions gets more benefits, if someone is getting more they are not equal.
Roodvlees says2015-08-27T09:02:07.7577193Z
Communism is fair. The problem is when you just use one principle in you entire economic system. Instead you need elements of everything where they work. A fully capitalistic economy would not work either, imagine everyone running their private militia to protect themselves.
reece says2015-08-27T09:22:26.8509773Z
@Roodvlees Imagine everyone running their private militia to protect themselves? You might as well not call it a country. You know the social bubbles of each militia would end up consisting of only one ideology?... This would increase intolerance of other ideologies... I think you know where that would lead to? This is regressive stuff you're talking about. Or do you have some solutions to these problems?
Discipulus_Didicit says2015-08-27T14:53:07.8771514Z
@reece Quote mining is for uncool losers. Don't be an uncool loser. @everyone who thinks that a perfectly equal society is the same as a perfectly fair society, willing to debate that subject?
reece says2015-08-27T14:58:01.4086330Z
@Discipulus_Didicit How did i quote mine?
reece says2015-08-27T15:03:36.8620251Z
Is that trump? Are you going to call me a baby next?
reece says2015-08-27T15:03:59.7478119Z
Is that trump? Are you going to call me a baby next?
Discipulus_Didicit says2015-08-27T15:17:52.0706654Z
You quoted only the part of his post that, when looked at on its own, suggested that he was advocating in favor of everyone running their own private militia to protect themselves. When you look at his actual post you can see that he was NOT in favor of that but your quote of him made it look like he was. Quoting in such a way as to change the original message is quote mining. That's what you did. You quote mined. Stop doing it, it's super uncool.
reece says2015-08-27T15:21:47.1271799Z
@Roodvlees Sorry. I misread what you said.
reece says2015-08-27T15:24:24.1140051Z
@Discipulus_Didicit FYI, i don't give a sh_t if i'm cool or not.
Discipulus_Didicit says2015-08-27T15:26:57.1849597Z
Whatever you baby.
reece says2015-08-27T15:28:06.9345183Z
I knew it ;)
Discipulus_Didicit says2015-08-27T15:29:37.6007880Z
Self fulfilled prophecy my friend.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-08-28T18:27:25.0533433Z
They aren't the same. Perfect equality is unfair to people who have more motivation in life. Equality holds people down to an average level. Fairness allows for people who are more active, work harder/smarter, and do better things to rise above the mediocre and shine.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-08-28T18:31:48.2944929Z
People need to be born equally in the eyes of the state so that the state equally does not want to touch them or get in their way. People are not born equally in nature, and its not right for anyone out there to try and make people equal in nature and in the eyes of god. That's why we had to make them equal in the eyes of government so that they could not show preference and counteract the natural rise of people or the natural social structure they create by doing so.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-08-28T18:32:10.3534585Z
People need to be born equally in the eyes of the state so that the state equally does not want to touch them or get in their way. People are not born equally in nature, and its not right for anyone out there to try and make people equal in nature and in the eyes of god. That's why we had to make them equal in the eyes of government so that they could not show preference and counteract the natural rise of people or the natural social structure they create by doing so.
basils says2015-08-28T21:17:26.9542620Z
.... Why not both? Why not make it so everyone has the same opportunity starting out, then whatever from there?
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-08-31T17:14:27.0968405Z
Because what people find to be a disadvantage at birth is totally subjective. It only becomes a disadvantage at all once life doesn't go that persons way ... Then they look back and blame their beginnings instead of the choices they made.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-08-31T17:14:49.6550189Z
Because what people find to be a disadvantage at birth is totally subjective. It only becomes a disadvantage at all once life doesn't go that persons way ... Then they look back and blame their beginnings instead of the choices they made.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-08-31T17:18:39.8545213Z
Fact is ... No one can truly ever be born 100% equal. Being slightly different is something we celebrate and is what has made all forms of life successful at adapting to change. Trying to be equal in every respect is damaging in the long run. And equal at birth isnt enough for some people.
Discipulus_Didicit says2015-08-31T18:18:56.3917358Z
@basilis If you believe that people should start as equal as possible then after that they change to not be equal any more depending on what they deserve then that is the definition of fairness. Congratulations, vote accordingly.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-08-31T18:23:00.7272423Z
Thats just it though ... The very instant after youve made them "equal", the very next thing their parents or they decide to do for themselves makes them no longer equal. If you would just cut the equality-granting process off at birth all would be well. But of course it never stops there ...
dmussi12 says2015-08-31T22:38:53.7523473Z
@Freedombeforeequality It's not subjective that being born with greater intelligence is an advantage. But fairness should be preferred because people should be compensated for their contribution to society (others' well-being). It incentivizes people.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-09-02T12:57:25.3863993Z
And then someone out there is contributing more and being compensated more for what they do for society. Then youre back at what people today would call inequality all over again. Regardless of how much that guy helps society, youre just going to go and make him out to be the bad guy because he ends up having it better than the people he's trying to help.
Discipulus_Didicit says2015-09-02T13:50:03.7514451Z
@FBE I think dmussi was agreeing with us actually.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-09-02T13:55:06.2904833Z
Sort of ... Except Im betting by that statement he advocates for that compensation to be controlled artificially to back people who support society over others ... Instead of letting people be free to make that contribution on their own. He's hinting at applying inequality measures to counter those individuals making money while offering much less back to the community.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-09-02T13:56:52.2327997Z
You know ... To "incentivize" people.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-09-02T13:57:14.3541669Z
You know ... To "incentivize" people.

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