@tajshar2k, Do you understand that if a kid is a nutjob they could get a gun anyway from the black market. If said nutjob came into the campus shooting, how long would it take for the police to get there? How many people would die before the police get there? Now what about if there was a citizen with a CCW that shot the nutjob before innocent people got shot? Well that citizen with the CCW wouldn't be allowed to carry a gun in your opinion thus would end up not having the gun and possible dieing with many other people because they didn't have a gun.
Nothing can stop a crazy person with a firearm faster than another person already there with one. Even with a security guard/cop on campus, they would still have to find out about the incident and run over there. Literally every second counts. I'm tired of hearing the ignorant leftist view of "OMG all these people with guns! What's to stop anyone from just killing everyone anytime one of them gets upset?!" I had this exact phrase said to me by my friend who was describing to me why she was so nervous the first time she went to a gun range. The reality is that if you go anywhere where the majority of the people have ccw's on them, you'll find that the people there are always very polite and no one acts crazy. Whenever you hear these leftists preach their irrational fear of guns, you will always find that that person is almost always very ignorant/inexperienced with guns.
Also, fun fact for anyone who is in their naive bubble of gun-free zones; Most people with ccw permits don't care whether there is a sign or not saying they can't bring in a firearm. Unless there is a metal detector, or someone frisking at the door, most will bring it anyway. Whether you fear you need it since it is a gun free zone, or you do it out of civil defiance since that is against the 2nd amendment. If you are in a gun-friendly state in college, you most likely sat right next to students who had a pistol on them and you never knew it. You would probably be surprised.
How exactly are schools supposed to regulate that? They have to check each and every gun owner and see whether they carry permit. Also, many people have been arrested for carrying fake permits, so you never know whether he really is authorized to carry guns. Hiring professional guards is a better idea in my opinion.
@Math But how would a college student be able to find a black market, be able to find a guns dealer, and be able to afford a gun? A police officer would have a better chance of finding a black market than a crazy nutjob.
Are you telling me you can't think of how a student or crazy nutjob may get a gun illegally from the black market? Think, if felons are able to do it, why can't anyone else? Also a student or crazy nutjob could always get one off a felon.
My argument in short is that if someone really wants to act crazy and bring a gun to a college and kill people, there is virtually nothing you can do to prevent that. Therefore, the best way to mitigate it would be to have more responsible people, on site, that can put an end to it as fast as possible. Every second matters and allowing ccw's is the best way to ensure that the most lives are protected.
If cops were so efficient at tracking down felons selling guns, then you wouldn't have felons selling guns in the first place. An illegal business would always break down if a cop could find them before their customers. The shear fact that these business exist and are profitable is proof that the cops can't find them before your crazy triggerhappy customer. And consider this, what happens if someone does come in with a gun with intent to kill people. How long would it take the security to get there, how many would die because people with CCW permits couldn't carry their pistols?
Why a college student would MOST LIKELY not find guns:
1. They have to spend their time in class (and maybe studying)
2. They'd need immense research to find a black market or lots of spare time to look around
3. They'd need lots of money, many people are in debt from student loans and cannot spare much money and guns are usually expensive
Answer my question. What happens if someone does come in with a gun with intent to kill people. How long would it take the security to get there, how many would die because people with CCW permits couldn't carry their pistols?
CommunistDog: I'm sorry, but if someone really wants to get a gun, they will. " 1. They have to spend their time in class (and maybe studying)", Even full time students only spend about 12-16 hours in class PER WEEK. That leaves plenty of time to find a gun. "2. They'd need immense research to find a black market or lots of spare time to look around", again, it's not that hard, in many states, gun shows happen almost every weekend, and the "immense research" would literally be about 15 mins on google. "3. They'd need lots of money, many people are in debt from student loans and cannot spare much money and guns are usually expensive", you can get many guns pretty cheaply (especially if you build them). If someone is wanting to go on a shooting rampage, scrounging up a few hundred dollars would not be hard if they have even a part time minimum wage job. Trust me, one of the ones I bought was when I was a sophmore in college living on my own working between school. They know they will most likely be killed by police or a bystander, arrested, or kill themselves when they are caught, so I don't think their student loan debt would bother them.
Okay, I changed my mind. But it needs to be tightly regulated, so only CCW permits can possess them. Also, students cannot pull out their gun unless there was an attacker at the school, otherwise immediate suspension.
Security guards would still have to either hear the incident occurring, or wait to be notified, locate where it is, run over there, and then try and stop them. Let's say that takes, at best 1-3 mins. Which is a little better than a police response in that area, That is still a long time for someone to be in a room shooting people. If a ccw was in the room, the perpetrator would only get a few shots off before they were stopped. Every second makes a difference with people's lives.
Tajshar2k, I would always allow ccw's to carry everywhere, if one were to point their firearm at someone without justification, suspension is too soft. Immediate expulsion and they would be charged with brandishing.
You would run into the same problem with crazy people who won't carry a fake permit. You can't stop every shooter before they kill. But you can stop all rational shooters with the threat of being shot by someone with a CCW permit. All irrational shooters would end up shooting people regardless of laws.
Tajshar2k, yea there is no real 100% way to guarantee to prevent a shooter, all you can do is mitigate it as much as possible, This is why every second is so important. Having ccw's in the room when the shooting starts is the fastest way to stop it, not waiting for a guard to come or the police to come. That way you have 1 or two bodies instead of a dozen. In an ideal world no one would ever hurt someone else, but realistically, there are crazy people out there and you have to do what you can. CCW is proven to be the fastest, most effective way to stop criminals and minimize loses of life.
To those of you who are against CCW permit holders to carry on campus: I'm hearing a lot of things about felon's no being able to have guns. Remember, people with ccw permits have two things:
1). A clean criminal record
3). Access to firearms
If you own and carry a gun, then you already have a gun in your possession. There is no need to find a black market. You can legally purchase one. Schools have no metal detectors and no friskers so the odds of getting caught is about as low as you having to use the firearm.
As a student with a ccw permit, I do follow the law, and I lock up, secure, and leave my Glock in my car when I step out to go to class. Most states, every student(permit or no permit) can legally have a firearm in their car even on a college campus as long as it stays entirely within the vehicle.
I urge those who are against permit holders to carry to think about the fact they already have the gun, they just have to consciously decide not to carry it to school.
Also, I've heard lots of studies suggesting that citizens with permits are actually more skilled, and in general more trustworthy than police officers. Police are 3 times more likely to commit a homicide, more likely to engage in domestic abuse, commit firearm violations more frequently than permit holders, etc. Not to mention, there's about 8 to 10 times more permit holders in the country than their are police officers.