Has accusing others of "political correctness" become a way to avoid the consequences of being bigoted and offensive?

Posted by: briantheliberal

  • Yes.

  • No.

26% 10 votes
74% 29 votes
  • Way more often than not.

  • It sometimes is. Not always.

    Posted by: bsh1
  • I agree with both sides really- "political correctness" should not be a barrier for speaking the truth, bringing important issues to the forefront of public debate. However, it is not an excuse to cater to racist, bigoted sentiment and incite further division, hate, and even violence. It would be nice to see a day when people are over "profiling" (another form of PC) and a fear of being accused of it. e.g. crimes, regardless of race of the criminal/victim prosecuted equally and given objective media attention. Fears of reverse racism, though often overstated, are a real concern. Fact is- there are racists and bigots, criminals and violent extremists of every race, religion, color.

  • Almost always. Either that or they are an idiot

  • I wouldn't find political correctness to be good in any way. You can be cordial when talking to others, but to hide facts and your opinion because it may be "bigoted" or "offensive" is absurd.

    Posted by: Nerva
  • Accusing others of "political correctness" is normally done when someone is called a bigot or something similar for accurately describing bad things. "Politically correct" people are those who accuse others of racism, sexism, homophobia, etc. because of something "offensive" that they did.

    Posted by: Bob13
  • http://www.debate.org/forums/politics/topic/82073/ When people are accusing you of PC it is probably because you are being hostile and aggressive towards opinions you don't like, ignoring reality that does not fit your agenda and getting offended over everything. PC is a problem in the west, especially in Europe. In Rotherham England authorities allowed Pakistani rape gangs to abuse 1400 girls for 16 years because they did not want to be called racist. The Finnish police have been ordered by the country"s national police board not to publicly identify immigrants as criminal suspects to not cause a "racist backlash." Tim Hunt, a scientist and professor at University College London, made a joke self degrading about women in science during the World Conference of Science and Journalism, in Seoul, South Korea and he was fired for it. Police in Germany have been covering up rape done by Muslim migrants. http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/6527/migrants-rape-germany In America PC is also out of hand. In 2010, during the Iowa State Fair, several African American teenagers declared a "beat whitey night" and beat up random white fair goers. During an interview with a local ABC affiliate, about the incident, police spokeswoman Lori Lovarato made the told the truth about what happened and was fired as a result. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qeMslmDBxY Do you notice a theme here? POWER. People in power like councils f towns, high level law enforcement and government often cover up crime done by ethnic minorities to not sound racist,and fire people for harmless things. PC is institutionalized. Thats one of the main reasons its a problem. Racism and sexism for example happen and some racism and sexism is systematic but most racism and sexism is in the form of unconscious bias or individual acts. All this being said it nothing gives Donald Trump the right to ban Muslims. People like him use PC as a way to dismiss critics of his actual racist ideas, but more people us the terms racist and sexist to dismiss other peoples opinions.

    Posted by: Dilara
  • It can be, but that's not its primary function.

  • What are the consequences of being bigoted and offensive? Its not like their is an actual PC police that will legally punish people for doing either.

  • Not at all. Anything anyone says can offend someone nowadays, and it completely halts the conversation. Illegal immigration from Mexico is a negative thing. "YOU'RE A RACIST AND A BIGOT." No, it's called a valid point. Too many pathetic people need to find something to whine about and get offended over to get attention, or whatever reason.

  • some conservatives do, and many some leftists deny that PC actually exists. It is a vicious cycle.

  • It obviously depends on who you're talking about. For example, Ben Carson and Sam Harris are both politically incorrect when they talk about Muslims/Islam. The difference is that Sam Harris isn't bigoted against Muslims and Ben Carson is. Harris criticizes doctrine while Carson says that he wouldn't advocate that a Muslim ever be president. In general, political correctness is incredibly stupid and anti free speech. If liberals want to do well in elections they need to drop political correctness.

  • No. Just because a person isn't PC doesn't mean they are bigots or racist, doesn't mean they aren't either. The flip side, just because someone uses PC language doesn't mean they aren't bigots or racists, doesn't mean they are either. Language is used to convey an idea, or several ideas. I would rather someone used the language that best conveyed their idea than to shroud it in vague, inaccurate, or imprecise language that often times makes me have to guess at their meaning. PC is a way of distracting people from the real topics. It's essentially ad hominem. Where, if one isn't PC, they attack that person's character instead of their argument.

  • It's just pointing out when people have gone to the side of ridiculous.

  • People are such pansies nowadays.

    Posted by: Jimbus
  • No, but many accuse others of being biggots for displaying different opinions that may be defined as uncomfortable.

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Nerva says2016-02-13T23:35:20.1676920Z
I also think that this is a loaded question. The fact that the OP uses the word bigoted moves the opinion to the other side, because no one wants to be called a bigot if they do not subscribe to political correctness.
briantheliberal says2016-02-13T23:47:07.6869854Z
Nerva, then you clearly missed the point of this poll. I didn't ask if political correctness was "good". There is always that one person who is quick to vote and doesn't bother actually READING what it says. I clearly asked if accusing others of being PC is being used as a way to say something bigoted or with bigoted intentions, and avoiding backlash. This happens A LOT in politics and it's often ignored because people like you feed right into it.
liltankjj says2016-02-13T23:50:19.7435098Z
I don't think some people care what is said or thought about them.
briantheliberal says2016-02-13T23:51:04.0642462Z
For example - Why is it that Donald Trump can blatantly lie about Muslims or any other group ON CAMERA in front of thousands of people but when someone says "that's not true" and accuses him of using anti-Muslim rhetoric to capitalize on the anti-Muslim hatred of his audience, they are branded as "PC police" and "Muslim sympathizers" who "support terrorism" or some other nonsense? It's ridiculous. I even hate Islam and I have noticed this disturbing trend. Conservatives are especially guilty of this.
briantheliberal says2016-02-13T23:54:21.8929186Z
Liltankjj. That clearly isn't true considering Donald Trump even refused to attend a debate because he was being criticized for making misogynist comments about Megan Kelly and Carly Fiorina. He then accused those who criticized him as being "politically correct" simply for pointing out that his misogynist comments were in fact misogynist. It's ridiculous now.
Midnight1131 says2016-02-13T23:54:58.1482482Z
Briantheliberal that goes the other way around too. People call Trump supporters bigots all the time, it's pretty even.
Bob13 says2016-02-13T23:54:58.1780433Z
@briantheliberal It is irrational to make such a hasty generalization of an entire ideology based on the supporters of a single person.
briantheliberal says2016-02-13T23:58:08.9723410Z
Midnight, that clearly wasn't the point. Saying "it's okay for them to do it because the other side does it too" is not a rational argument. The "left" gets attacked for being PC, but the right does not even when they are especially guilty of it. If someone says something racist, they are a racist. Calling them what they are is not being "PC" that term is just used for people to avoid the consequences of saying something blatantly offensive and ignorant.
briantheliberal says2016-02-13T23:59:58.3779462Z
Bob13, Your comment EXACTLY proves my point. Why are you falsely accusing me of generalizing conservatives when I did not? I said conservatives are especially guilty of this, I did not say all conservatives were. You are being politically correct in that statement.
Dilara says2016-02-14T00:31:09.7551290Z
Here are some examples of PC going too far. It is used to silence people with conservative opinions and ignore facts http://www.debate.org/forums/politics/topic/82073/
triangle.128k says2016-02-14T00:40:45.7456558Z
Oh hey, the SJW is back.
Nerva says2016-02-14T00:46:32.1458763Z
A black liberal that goes to a state school? Wow, never seen that before...
briantheliberal says2016-02-14T00:49:35.2150734Z
Triangle, oh hey the hypocrite is still here. Calling me "SJW" only proves my point. People like you use that term to silence others you disagree with, just like you accuse liberals of using terms like "racist" to silence people like you. It's pathetic and blatant hypocrisy on your part. Not to mention, incredibly transparent at this point.
briantheliberal says2016-02-14T00:56:41.9640154Z
Nerva, right just like you're actually a conservative who lies to himself about being a "free-thinker", by claiming to be "libertarian" as you consistently side with the GOP base. Also, funny how you avoid refuting my response to you and resort to snide remarks about my personal life. This is why I rarely come here anymore. Most people on this site are either trolls, or narrow minded drones who bashes anyone with the slightest liberal worldview and brands them as a "SJW" or "authoritarian".
triangle.128k says2016-02-14T01:08:50.4160549Z
@Nerva He even said that Ivy Leagues were overrated and people go there because "their rich dad can afford to send them."
Dilara says2016-02-14T01:12:06.5249120Z
Briantheliberal People call you an SJW because you often act like one. You lie about peoples statements to make them seem racist, you call people racist for disagreeing with you and you are aggressive and hostile towards different ideas.
triangle.128k says2016-02-14T01:16:08.6072638Z
@briantheliberal You literally like to blame nearly everything on white supremacy, and you basically are a Social Justice Warrior based on many of your views. You tend to blame whites for a lot of things and support blacks having a huge advantage over everybody else in society. I wish you would just take a minute to look how aggressive you act towards nearly everyone you disagree with. I've seen you act somewhat aggressive before, but since you came back, you've been acting awfully more aggressive than usual. I've read your recent forum posts and you were acting awfully aggressive towards everyone else since nobody else had acted as if the KKK runs the congress. You're called people racist left and right for opposing extremely racist things such as affirmative action. Yet, many of your comments suggest as if you are a racist yourself.
briantheliberal says2016-02-14T01:19:01.6795662Z
Triangle, Why is any of that relevant? You people are so incompetent it's not even funny anymore. It's just sad.
briantheliberal says2016-02-14T01:23:32.4245082Z
Triangle, "You literally like to blame nearly everything on white supremacy" - Nice straw man. I don't. I discuss the topic a lot. I don't blame everything on it. It's something that has been ingrained in society. Just because I have recently been discussing the issues, because it's a hot topic, doesn't mean I blame it on every single thing. "You tend to blame whites for a lot of things and support blacks having a huge advantage over everybody else in society." - Evidence? " You're called people racist left and right for opposing extremely racist things such as affirmative action." Again, where is the evidence that I called everyone who opposes affirmative action racist? You're literally making shit up as usual.
triangle.128k says2016-02-14T01:39:26.7009762Z
I'm exaggerating if you didn't realize, but it's quite evident you've exaggerated white supremacy and like to bring race when it's irrelevant. You support extreme reparations for Blacks acting as if the KKK controls the white house. I've never stated you've called everyone against affirmative action either. All I said was that you tend to blatantly accuse people of being racist left and right, and there are a variety of reasons you may do this. Also, you seem to overlook the fact you've acted as a racist yourself. You've generalized white people countless times, and i'm sure you'll deny generalizing white people too.
briantheliberal says2016-02-14T02:08:40.2802548Z
Triangle, you're not "exaggerating" you are flat out lying and accusing me of things I have never said or done in attempt to completely tarnish my position. That is why when I ask for evidence you back out. That is all everyone on this site ever does. If I criticize Christianity, I am suddenly a bigot who hates Christians. If I dare discuss the topic of race or racism, I am suddenly "anti-white" and racist against white people or a "black supremacist" (whatever the hell that is). Also I DO NOT support "extreme reparations" for anyone, you have NO EVIDENCE THAT I SAID THAT. I have also never said anything racist towards anyone, you have no evidence of that either. If I discuss LGBT issues, I am branded a "social justice warrior" who "hates conservatives". Many of you use straw man arguments and distort my words to invalidate what I actually say just so you can label me a bigot. You call me "politically correct" for opposing many of the blatantly racist, homophobic, and sexist things I witness on a weekly basis. Meanwhile, none of you said a goddamn thing when I was called all kinds of derogatory names and insulted by other users. You people even use my profile picture to insult me in polls and forums. I take a lot of abuse from ALL of you. Then you people have the f-cking NERVE to pretend you hate political correctness when you go to extra lengths to silence me and shame me for exercising my freedom of speech, something I have never tried to take away from ANYONE on this site! With that being said f-ck you and your hypocrisy. This is why I don't come here anymore. Aside from the fact that I have responsibilities in the real world, it's because you all treat me like trash. Then when I get fed up with the abuse you have the audacity to call me "angry" and "aggressive" like I don't have a right to be. I came here originally to express my opinions in an accepting environment, but you apparently only tolerate views that are on the conservative side of the spectrum, no matter how outrageously awful these views may be. Anything liberal is "too liberal". And don't act as if you don't try to do some of the things you do to me to some other users like TBR because I have witnessed that too. This is completely ridiculous and I have grown tired of this hypocritical, childish behavior.
briantheliberal says2016-02-14T02:22:01.6522953Z
And Dilara, I don't lie about anyone's statements. You're pretty much one of the 10 people on this site who I have ever called a racist. Why? Because that's what you are. You use issues that exist to promote a race baiting agenda when it's convenient for you to make white people look like they are being "attacked" by minorities for BEING white more so than it actually happens. You attribute race to these types of issues for the very purpose of profiting off of the "Us vs. Them" mentality that pretty much all people have to some degree. Your white supremacist rhetoric may completely go over the head of most people here, but not me. For example - You do this with "black on white" crime more than once a week. You use cases and statistics where the victim was white and the criminal was either black (or some other race). You then make it about race when there is no indication that race itself was even a factor. You simply use race as bait to further racial division and paint white people as the victim of racial oppression like you always do. In addition to that, when anyone points out your obviously racist intentions, you accuse them of political correctness to avoid acknowledging that your intentions actually are. I have said this multiple times and I wasn't even the only person to notice this is what you do.
triangle.128k says2016-02-14T02:27:32.7551849Z
@briantheliberal "White people hate being confronted by the very unequal power structures they benefit"
triangle.128k says2016-02-14T02:29:36.2439177Z
"White people tend to love judging and criticizing OTHER non-white cultures, "
triangle.128k says2016-02-14T02:30:26.1174374Z
"My argument is that white people hate being called racist when they demonize other cultures, while ignoring the problems, "
triangle.128k says2016-02-14T02:30:58.4252445Z
"White people call the shots no matter what we do. And if white people were "taking care" of black people, their communities wouldn't be as neglected as they are. White people caused this mess, now they do everything in their power to avoid being held accountable for it and even try to pretend these issues are caused by inherent inferiority instead of racism."
triangle.128k says2016-02-14T02:32:07.2996860Z
"why white people... Need to stop pretending it doesn't matter"
triangle.128k says2016-02-14T02:32:59.9812237Z
"You even accuse white people of having "white guilt" to silence them and guilt them into being silent about race issues when their views aren't in favor of white people."
triangle.128k says2016-02-14T02:35:09.8937061Z
Those are just within one forum thread. To name a racist quote you have said elsewhere: "Racism is a system created and perpetuated by white people."
briantheliberal says2016-02-14T02:44:20.8998341Z
Pericle, the question isn't asking if that is its primary function. If you acknowledge that it happens (which it does) vote "yes".
Dilara says2016-02-14T02:48:52.7729313Z
Briantheliberal You said that I thought Arabs were beasts and that they are inferior to whites in a forum, a couple hours ago. You have called me a white supremacist for disagreeing with you no affirmative action. I don't try to create an us v them mentality or promote hate , I TELL THE TRUTH. If the truth is that black crime is very high or that Muslim rape is an epidemic in Europe, so be it. Acknowledging these truths does not mean I want an 'us v them" mentality or that I am promoting hate. Another LIE. Any opinions you don't agree with or facts that don't fit your agenda are hate speech. This is what makes you an authoritarian SJW. No one in America TODAY is oppressed because of their race. Pointing out how black on white crime is often ignored does not mean I am trying to paint whites as the victims of oppression. It means I am bringing attention to a fact. Go back to your safe space.
briantheliberal says2016-02-14T02:49:54.0151753Z
Triangle, none of those statements are racist. You're just being politically correct AGAIN.
triangle.128k says2016-02-14T02:54:24.6509145Z
@briantheliberal Hah, you're accusing me of PCness when those statements are legitimately racist against whites. Yet when somebody says something about racial issues you disagree with, you like to accuse them of being a racist. Yet most other people on here don't address X race as a collective group the same way you did.
briantheliberal says2016-02-14T02:58:22.5102133Z
Dilara, "You said that I thought Arabs were beasts and that they are inferior to whites in a forum" I was clearly speaking metaphorically genius. I wasn't being literal. "You have called me a white supremacist for disagreeing with you no affirmative action" - Another lie, I called you a racist for denying systemic racial prejudice against minorities in education and employment. Yes, you promote hate, always have. You say you don't but your actions prove otherwise. You constantly RACE BAIT issues to paint minorities as having an inherent character flaw and starting a war on white people. YOU DO NOT TELL THE TRUTH - You constantly exaggerate, lie, and use right wing biased sources to support your racist rhetoric. You often rely on HALF facts to get away with this too. No one is denying certain demographics commit more crimes on average. The problem is you take these issues, lie about them like you did when you said "blacks commit half of all murders" instead of violent crime in general to evoke fear and hatred. I don't call this out because I disagree with it. I call it out because it's not true. You're a liar and a racist.
briantheliberal says2016-02-14T03:03:54.3463217Z
Triangle, in what way? It's racist because it's true? White people don't benefit from systemic racism? White people don't criticize other cultures? White people don't control every major societal institution in the Western world? Do some racist white people not accuse other white people of having "white guilt" when they acknowledge these things? Did white people not create white supremacy and divide humans into racial categorizations? Answer these questions honestly from your perspective. Looks to me like you took every comment I made that had the word "white" in it and said "Ohhh racist!" to falsely accuse me of racism. That is political correctness at its finest. Continue being a hypocrite.
Dilara says2016-02-14T03:08:18.1784018Z
Briantheliberal You said I was racist against Arabs which I am not. Thats just one of the many lies you have told about me. You are an authoritarian SJW. There are little systematic prejudices against minorities but there are huge systematic prejudices against whites, Asians and men like affirmative action. Denying someone a spot or job that they worked hard for because they are white, Asian or male is racist and sexist. In order to get into college you have to score 200 points lower than me. Females and non whites and non Asians are the beneficiaries of systemic discrimination. Again telling the truth s not promoting hate. I use right wing and neutral sources and other credible sources, you are discrediting them because you don't like what they say. Https://www.Fbi.Gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.S/2013/crime-in-the-u.S.-2013/offenses-known-to-law-enforcement/expanded-homicide/expanded_homicide_data_table_6_murder_race_and_sex_of_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.Xls
PericIes says2016-02-14T03:13:45.3206745Z
@briantheliberal I thought that the question was implying a more widespread use of the term in this way, because pointing out that a given term is used in a given way at least some percent of the time is redundant. Obviously, somewhere, somehow, anything can be used to mean anything. Due to this, I operated under the assumption that you created a poll that had meaning.
triangle.128k says2016-02-14T03:19:17.6570292Z
@briantheliberal It isn't being overly PC to point out that you're blatantly generalizing whites as a collective group. All racists like to say they're "pointing out the truth."
Nerva says2016-02-14T04:44:19.9696209Z
Brian, you act as if this supremacy is inherent. Whites were supreme in history because we were dominant socially, intellectually, militarily, and economically. It's not that we were superior as a result of our genetic makeup and our level of melanin in our skin, but because of what we achieved. Your people have been for centuries and still continue to dance around campfires and shoot their own kind in the hundreds. We currently have reversed all the issues that resulted from racism and segregation, but the fact that blacks have increased their rate of poverty while decreasing their value in our society is not the fault of whites, it is the fault of idiot Democrats that people like you will elect. You don't legislate people into success by making others destitute.
Mister_Man says2016-02-14T05:24:47.8598729Z
Hey Brian, if I were to say something that isn't intended to be offensive at all, and you completely halt the conversation by calling me a racist, bigot, sexist, homophobic, whatever, what should I do instead of telling you your political correctness has gone to far? I can completely understand if I say something that is bigoted and you call me out on it, but if I don't, and you call me a bigot anyway, what else am I supposed to do? That is the definition of political correctness gone too far, and it is perfectly justified to point that out, in hopes of progressing the conversation.
Haroush says2016-02-14T05:30:49.8049254Z
LMAO @ BTL.. I guess white people have to give up something to make you happy? This is what Marissa Johnson said which is a leader of the BLM movement. She aired on Bret Baier's special Voter Revolt saying this. A re-run comes on at 8 pm this Sunday. So, if what she is saying is the case, you are going to have to kill me in order to take anything away from me just because I am white. And trust me, I have no problem killing someone who is a threat to society in any way, shape, or form and I don't care who it is.
briantheliberal says2016-02-14T09:09:01.8164373Z
Dilara, "You said I was racist against Arabs which I am not." - Because your actions promote racism against Arab people. This is not a "lie" when you constantly race bait serious issues to exploit and promote anti-Semitic viewpoints. What is your intention behind only focusing on crime when the victims are white and the perpetrators are not? Answer - to promote hatred and resentment against non-white people. The facts are one thing, it becomes an agenda when you use those facts to promote something else.And calling me "an authoritarian SJW" again shows you are a hypocrite when it comes to political correctness since you are using that as a silencing tactic. And you use right wing biased sources because they promote the same racist shit that you do. Now you are downplaying the amount of systemic prejudice that exists in education and employment against certain minority groups and exaggerating the extent of discrimination against white (and some cases Asian) men in these areas. Affirmative Action is literally the ONLY thing you can complain about, and even that is still subject to debate. Meanwhile, just having an "ethnic" sounding name significantly lowers your chances of employers calling you in for an interview. "White" sounding names are favored on job applications and resumes receiving twice as many callbacks > http://www.forbes.com/sites/ruchikatulshyan/2014/06/13/have-a-foreign-sounding-name-change-it-to-get-a-job/#a99cfe95f215 < In addition, black men with bachelors' degrees fared just a much in getting a job as a white man with ONLY a high school diploma, requiring TWO LEVELS HIGHER in education > https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/07/02/the-economys-troubling-double-standard-for-black-men/ < And last, but certainly not least, black college graduates are two times more likely to be unemployed compared to white college grads in virtually all areas, even WITH the implementation of Affirmative Action in some places >http://www.Theatlantic.Com/politics/archive/2014/05/african-americans-with-college-degrees-are-twice-as-likely-to-be-unemployed-as-other-graduates/430971/ < So tell me again how white men were the ones primarily affected by discrimination in these areas of life. Oh I know, let's talk about how white men are paid MORE than every other demographic in the same fields on average, even when they are just as if not less qualified for the position they hold > http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0882775.html < So honetly Dilara, you're full of it. If a black or Latino person worked just as, if not harder, than a white person, earned a degree, most likely worked throughout college just to pay for it seeing as their families tend to have LESS wealth and cannot always support them financially, who the fuck are you to assume they haven't earned it, and the white person did? Because in reality, minorities do not generally have access to the same resources that white people do FROM BIRTH. THAT is why Affirmative Action exists. So while you sit here and complain about a QUOTA BASED SYSTEM that does not directly discriminate against any particular person or even exist on a national level, I am focusing on actual discrimination that systemically affects the lives of millions of black, Latino, Native American, and Arab American people.
briantheliberal says2016-02-14T09:09:34.2808697Z
Triangle, Whites are a collective group, just like blacks, Hispanics, Asians, Arabs, Natives etc... And they collectively benefit from systemic racism on a GLOBAL scale. Where part my family is from, whites are a minority (about 10% of the population), most of us are black, mulato, or mestizo and yet whites hold most of the power and wealth, which they directly or indirectly inherent from colonialism and racism. In America, whites control every major societal institution, from the justice system, to the media and education. Therefore, whatever these institutions do to influence society favors white people. The same crimes that blacks are convicted for and assumed to be guilty of, white people get away with. The same media that often overrepresents white people and praises white beauty standards, also promotes stereotypes and unflattering images of non-white people. The same educational system that rarely neglects any history that isn't European, also white washes a lot of things that Europeans have done to other groups throughout history to get where they are today. You hear about slavery or the civil rights movements, but that's about it. They don't teach you about the great empires of Africa, Asia and the Americas BEFORE colonialism, just Europe. I am not blaming whites as a whole for this, I am simply acknowledging that this is the reality. And calling me a "racist" for talking about these things is nothing but politically correct hypocrisy on your part. You claim to hate the very thing you are guilty of.
briantheliberal says2016-02-14T09:11:33.2183193Z
Nerva, supremacy is inherent. The wealth and power that one group holds naturally gets passed down to their descendants, unless overthrown in some way. If you are white in America, and assuming your ancestors immigrated here from Europe about 100 years ago, you benefit from the racism they benefited from in the past indirectly. The jobs blacks and other groups could not get, your ancestors did. The property that blacks and other groups could not own, your ancestors did. The wealth that your family was allowed to accumulate and pass down to you and the rest of their descendants because of this is few and far between for people who weren't white. And yes, this includes Irish and Italians who eventually assimilated into the white mainstream after being treat as "less than" people of Anglo Saxon descent. And just because some European groups had the ABILITY to colonize, does not mean them doing so was justifiable. In reality "your people" did not "achieve" anything. They stepped on the backs of everyone else to get where they were and are today. Just like the Japanese did in Asia to the Chinese, Koreans, and Southeast Asians around the same time period. Where they no longer felt the need to fight and compete with one another, they sought to dominate others. From this, the modern system of racial classification and the racism that came from it was born and was ingrained in the Western world and used to justify slavery, genocide, and imperialism. You're sadly mistaken, and arguably foolish, to believe these systems that came out of these events simply "went away" or "reversed". They still exist, they just aren't as overt as they used to be when it was openly acceptable. Minorities are still being marginalized into poverty, denied jobs, often "red lined" and forced to live in underdeveloped areas. White people don't experience these things to the same degree today. Not even close. You can blame democrats and pretend racism doesn't play a role in these things all you want to appease your sense of guilty, it's still not the case. "You don't legislate people into success by making others destitute." - Yet that is exactly what white people did throughout history. When will you practice what you preach and stop pretending that's not what occurred? These issues did not come from nothing.
briantheliberal says2016-02-14T09:25:29.9925745Z
Mister_Man, If that actually happen (which it hasn't) you have every right to say political correctness is a problem in that particular case. HOWEVER, when you actually do say or do something bigoted and offensive (with the intention to cause problems), and someone calls it out for what it is, you can't just falsely accuse them of being politically correct for pointing out something you said or did that was in fact bigoted just so you can avoid accountability and escape the backlash of your actions. Why is it that people like Donald Trump or Rush Limbaugh can blatantly lie to their audience with race baiting, anti-gay, and anti-Muslim rhetoric and when called out for it, they accuse the "liberal media" and everyone who opposes their blatant bigotry of being "politically correct"? This is clearly just as ridiculous as people who do something stupid, and when confronted with the consequences, they use their race (or sexual orientation, sex etc...) as a way to avoid the them. I'm glad you actually took the time to understand where I am coming from here, but at least acknowledge that this does happen. I mean look at this comment section, it's filled with wild accusations against me in which people brand me as a "racist" or "SJW" because I talk about or oppose racism and white supremacy. That is exactly the type of politically correct hypocrisy I experience on this site, on a daily basis. The same people who claim to hate "political correctness" have no issue using it when it's convenient for them.
briantheliberal says2016-02-14T09:33:21.2650581Z
Haroush, "I guess white people have to give up something to make you happy?" - Yes, you are absolutely right. It's called white privilege. When white people stop actively benefiting from the systemic racism against another groups, (while ignoring, denying, or justifying it when it convenient) I will gladly be happy and stop talking about this issue. But that hasn't happened yet so I will continue to talk about it when the topic arises. Okay? But I'm pretty sure murder isn't necessary to accomplish that. Maybe if you try to educate yourself, that would work better. Unlike you, I don't want to start a race war to preserve my unearned societal advantages.
Bob13 says2016-02-14T13:35:59.4979248Z
@briantheliberal "I said conservatives are especially guilty of this, I did not say all conservatives were." You were still making a generalization: Some Trump supporters are guilty of this; therefore, conservatives are especially guilty of this.
Haroush says2016-02-14T14:21:37.6439673Z
@BTL, I don't need to educate myself on s***. If anything, you need to learn how to be responsible for your own actions as well as the majority of African Americans. Besides white people have given up enough to people like you who think the world owes you everything. It's ironic how you are oblivious to your own systemic racism which is causing a race war in it's self.
Haroush says2016-02-14T14:29:15.9437051Z
It's sad when people like BTL make groups like the KKK look somewhat good. SMH.
tajshar2k says2016-02-14T15:02:57.3266626Z
Sure it may be offensive, but I value the facts and truth over hurting somebody's feelings.
tajshar2k says2016-02-14T15:10:02.8857982Z
In some cases, I think being P.C is good, when you don't want to further deescalate the situation. But in 90% of situations, I don't care. Blacks are likely commit more crime, Whites are more likely to shoot up a school, it's all based on facts and statistics, if you can't handle the truth, you shouldn't be engaging in these kinds of conversations.
Dilara says2016-02-14T15:25:03.6315645Z
Briantheliberal Just because you perceive my actions as promoting racism against Arabs does not mean that I am racist against them. My actions do not promote racism against Arabs. By your logic, your actions promote racism against whites. Look at your comments that triangle pasted here. You seem to believe that white people are personally responsible for the poverty rates among blacks and that everything we do contributes to a system of white supremacy. I am not going to use your logic. I don't think you are actually racist against whites,but I do think you have been brainwashed to believe that all your problems and the problems other poc face are a direct result of white supremacy and not personal choices or other things. I do know that you are an authoritarian SJW because you call everyone who disagrees with you racist and believe that everything is white peoples fault. The reason I focus on black on white crime in America is because it is often ignored by the mainstream media and the reason I focus on nonwhite migrant on white crime in Europe is because it is a big problem that is directly covered up in the media and because I have a friend in Germany (who is half Tatar) who has been sexually harassed by migrant men. I use sources like the un, eurostat and official police reports and sometimes London Telegraph or the Daily Mail. Affirmative action is racist against Asians and whites and sexist against men. You could get a job over a more qualified white or Asians men just because you are black. That more qualified Asian or white man would be denied something they worked for and deserve just because they are white or Asian. How is that not racism against whites and Asians? BTW AA is more likely to help me than you because white women are more likely to benefit from it than anyone else, but I am still against it because it is sexist and racist. Its not like women, blacks and Hispanics cant earn anything WE CAN but we are more likely to be handed things we did not work for, aren't qualified for and don't deserve because of our races and sex while Asian and white men actually have to work to get jobs and spots. Asian and white men have to score 200-230 points higher on the SATs than black men to get into most colleges--and you say the discrimination is in favor of white men and against blacks? How are you being discriminated against when you have to score 200 points lower than whites and Asians to get into college? Its not like all white people have access to resources that all minorities don't. The access to resources one has is because of class. Do you really think tat a poor white person has more access to resources than Ivy Blue Carter or the Obama girls? If race and sex based AA was banned in public institutions (private institutions can do what they want. I don't care if they use AA) and replaced with socio economic based AA than people who actually have disadvantages would be given the leg up. Because blacks and Hispanics are more likely to be poor than whites they would benefit from it anyways. You act as if being white some how means your life is easy with no challenges. You can complain about whites and men having systematic advantages all you want but it won't change reality and the reality is that whites, Asians and men are discriminated against in the form of AA. The wage gap is a myth. White men earn more than every other demographic. The wage gap only exists when you compare the average earnings between the demographics and don't take into account hours worked or jobs. Schools and media do not white wash history. They only focus on the negative things whites have done while ignoring the fact that most whites did not take part in those things (slavery, colonization ect) and the fact that whites ended those things (the transatlantic slave trade, slavery in America ect). They also ignore the negative tings non whites did (like the Barbary slave trade, the blacks selling other blacks to Europeans ect). We learned all about how great the Aztec empire was even though it enslaved and killed millions of other Indians. We learn about the horrible Spanish conquest but not about the brutalities of the Aztec empire. We learn about the whites who took slaves from Africa but not about the blacks who sold to the white slave traders. As a result we have systematic white shaming. http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/tempe/2015/10/26/asu-problem-whiteness-class-returns/74482156/ https://www.pcc.edu/about/diversity/cascade/whiteness-history-month/
Dilara says2016-02-14T15:39:25.7398908Z
Tajshar2k EXACTLY.
Wylted says2016-02-14T16:00:17.6006966Z
Political correctnes more often than not is a way for cowards to avoid debate. They'd rather have you arguing whether it is appropriate use the word waitress or server than argue against their stupid theories which are easily disproven.
58539672 says2016-02-14T17:16:40.4210018Z
This topic reminds me of a quote Gavin Mcinnes once said. "2+2=4, no matter how many people it offends."
mc9 says2016-02-14T23:07:21.5011890Z
Guys just have a debate
Renegader says2016-02-14T23:39:37.6511641Z
The authoritarian left denies that PC exists despite thousands of examples, and the conservative right use PC excuses to hide bigotry. The truth is that political correctness exists. Islam is the best example in modern times of "liberals" fighting their own ideology to protect an identity group.
Dilara says2016-02-15T00:30:55.0485382Z
Renegader I agree completely.
Mister_Man says2016-02-15T05:09:57.2539116Z
Well Brian, I'm glad we could agree on the main point here. And as much as I love to argue with you about how white people don't have to do anything and you should be responsible for your own actions, it's too much work and too many other people are talking to you already. So have fun with them.
PericIes says2016-02-15T07:21:28.6235974Z
Guys, if you could not turn DDO into Tumblr, that would be absolutely spiffing.
briantheliberal says2016-02-17T04:32:57.7989557Z
Bob13, "You were still making a generalization: Some Trump supporters are guilty of this; therefore, conservatives are especially guilty of this." - I think you need to look up what the term "generalization" means before accusing others of making them. I am honestly tired of conservatives and conservative sympathizers falsely accusing me of things I did not do to avoid the actual criticisms I am making against you. The simple fact is, conservatives are MORE guilty of what I describe than anyone else. I did not say ALL conservatives were nor did I say ALL conservatives supported Trump. If you actually bothered reading what I said, you would know this.
briantheliberal says2016-02-17T04:33:20.7627445Z
Haroush, I didn't say you had to educate yourself. I merely suggested it. You are allowed to wallow in your ignorance if you so choose. But let's get something straightened out. First of all, I am not African American. Second, even if I was African American, I don't have to be responsible for anyone else because they are too African American. Third, nice deflecting away from what I actually said and responding with your typical racist diatribe. "Oh black people need to stop blaming white people for the racist systems they created against them!" - So enlighten me as to what I am not taking responsibility for? Oh and don't worry, I'm sure the KKK already looked good to you since you seem to agree and spout the same bullshit they do. White people can say and do whatever racist shit they want so long as they stop short of saying "I hate niggers" when they do it.
briantheliberal says2016-02-17T04:33:45.0213665Z
Tajshar2k, the question is not if political correctness is good or bad. It's asking if some people use the concept to silence opposition when they do or say something racist, homophobic, sexist etc... Like when Donald Trump called for all Muslims to be forced to wear identification or face deportation. When he received backlash, he dismissed it as people being "politically correct" Muslim sympathizers, which is wrong.
briantheliberal says2016-02-17T04:34:21.5575033Z
Dilara, your actions DO promote racism against Arab people. You rely on the very same rhetoric that white supremacists and white nationalists use to promote their anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim agenda. This is not MY perception, this is exactly what you are doing. And stop with this blame flipping nonsense. I am not promoting racism against white people because I oppose and speak out against white supremacy and systemic racism. You are racist for perpetuating these things. Then you call me an "authoritarian SJW" in attempt to silence me for expressing my opposition. Just like you call me a racist for defending affirmative action. This is pure political correctness and hypocrisy on your part. Also, not once have I said white people are PERSONALLY responsible for poverty that minority groups experience, I said that the disproportionate poverty is a result of systemic racial prejudice that is present in virtually every major societal institution, including education and employment. I also never said all of MY persona problems are a result of these issues either. I never once made this about my personal life. Here you are relying on straw man arguments and ad hominem attacks instead of refuting what I say honestly and with facts. That's all you ever do is rely on fallacious arguments and exaggerations. I also do NOT call everyone I disagree with a racist. You have no proof of this, this is just another tactic you use to attack me and avoid confronting what I am actually saying. "The reason I focus on black on white crime in America is because it is often ignored by the mainstream media" - Bullshit, you focus on "black on white crime" and "immigrant rape in Europe" because it allows you to further your racist agenda against non-white people. These issues are NOT ignored by the mainstream media (You even found articles about these issues on mainstream news websites like Dailymail so you are blatantly lying). Just because every single murder of a white person by a black person doesn't get plastered all over CNN or FOX as top news stories does not mean they aren't reported at all. The problem is you rely on RACE BAITING to imply that crimes committed by non-white groups against white people are a systemic RACIAL issue, when in reality these crimes are ISOLATED CASES that have absolutely NOTHING to do with race most of the time. They actually have more to do with poverty than anything else (seeing as non-white groups tend to live in poverty which results in higher crime rates). But you ignore this and pretend race is a factor in this cases when it is not. Why? Because it allows you to promote racism against certain non-white groups as a whole. You focus entirely on these cases and spread a 'black vs white' or 'Arab vs European' narrative. Even some polls you post, you purposely use photos that depict non-white people as violent criminals. For example > http://www.debate.org/polls/will-immigration-increase-violence-in-europe < And with that, it becomes so obvious what your intentions are when you do it. You also use ultraconservative sites like infowars and Breitbart, which are notorious for being heavily right wing biased AND promoting racism as well. So you can pretend this isn't the case, and try to justify your race baiting behavior but just because I call it out for what it is does not make me a "SJW" nor racist against white people. Oh and thanks for completely dismissing instead of refuting what I said in my last post regarding affirmative action with no counter EVIDENCE. There is no evidence that women or minorities are "more likely" to be "handed things we didn't work for or qualified for". You make this up as you go, as usual. The wage gap isn't a myth because you say so. There is evidence measuring it's presence > http://www.ibtimes.com/gender-wage-gap-real-2015-data-show-mens-earnings-growing-faster-womens-us-2149236 < Asian Americans and whites are required to make more on the SAT because it has been proven to be biased in their favor. > https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2010/06/21/sat < You are quick to call AA racist but remain silent when it comes to systemic racial bias in education and employment. So again, race ONLY matters when you feel it is convenient to defend or justify the societal advantages of white people. When it comes to affirmative action or if a black person kills a white person (even when race wasn't a factor) you respond with opposition or concern. When a black college graduate is more likely to be unemployed than a white person with no more than a high school diploma, it doesn't matter to you. When a white person is more likely to not spend a day in prison for killing a black person unjustifiably, it doesn't matter to you. You ignore, deny, or justify racial issues that DO NOT affect white people and fabricate the perception of issues when you feel they affect white people. And it's because of this why I have called you what you are, a racist.
briantheliberal says2016-02-17T04:36:49.2776909Z
Dilara, your actions DO promote racism against Arab people. You rely on the very same rhetoric that white supremacists and white nationalists use to promote their anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim agenda. This is not MY perception, this is exactly what you are doing. And stop with this blame flipping nonsense. I am not promoting racism against white people because I oppose and speak out against white supremacy and systemic racism. You are racist for perpetuating these things. Then you call me an "authoritarian SJW" in attempt to silence me for expressing my opposition. Just like you call me a racist for defending affirmative action. This is pure political correctness and hypocrisy on your part. Also, not once have I said white people are PERSONALLY responsible for poverty that minority groups experience, I said that the disproportionate poverty is a result of systemic racial prejudice that is present in virtually every major societal institution, including education and employment. I also never said all of MY persona problems are a result of these issues either. I never once made this about my personal life. Here you are relying on straw man arguments and ad hominem attacks instead of refuting what I say honestly and with facts. That's all you ever do is rely on fallacious arguments and exaggerations. I also do NOT call everyone I disagree with a racist. You have no proof of this, this is just another tactic you use to attack me and avoid confronting what I am actually saying. "The reason I focus on black on white crime in America is because it is often ignored by the mainstream media" - Bullshit, you focus on "black on white crime" and "immigrant rape in Europe" because it allows you to further your racist agenda against non-white people. These issues are NOT ignored by the mainstream media (You even found articles about these issues on mainstream news websites like Dailymail so you are blatantly lying). Just because every single murder of a white person by a black person doesn't get plastered all over CNN or FOX as top news stories does not mean they aren't reported at all. The problem is you rely on RACE BAITING to imply that crimes committed by non-white groups against white people are a systemic RACIAL issue, when in reality these crimes are ISOLATED CASES that have absolutely NOTHING to do with race most of the time. They actually have more to do with poverty than anything else (seeing as non-white groups tend to live in poverty which results in higher crime rates). But you ignore this and pretend race is a factor in this cases when it is not. Why? Because it allows you to promote racism against certain non-white groups as a whole. You focus entirely on these cases and spread a 'black vs white' or 'Arab vs European' narrative. Even some polls you post, you purposely use photos that depict non-white people as violent criminals. For example > http://www.debate.org/polls/will-immigration-increase-violence-in-europe < And with that, it becomes so obvious what your intentions are when you do it. You also use ultraconservative sites like infowars and Breitbart, which are notorious for being heavily right wing biased AND promoting racism as well. So you can pretend this isn't the case, and try to justify your race baiting behavior but just because I call it out for what it is does not make me a "SJW" nor racist against white people. Oh and thanks for completely dismissing instead of refuting what I said in my last post regarding affirmative action with no counter EVIDENCE. There is no evidence that women or minorities are "more likely" to be "handed things we didn't work for or qualified for". You make this up as you go, as usual. The wage gap isn't a myth because you say so. There is evidence measuring it's presence > http://www.ibtimes.com/gender-wage-gap-real-2015-data-show-mens-earnings-growing-faster-womens-us-2149236 < Asian Americans and whites are required to make more on the SAT because it has been proven to be biased in their favor. > https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2010/06/21/sat < You are quick to call AA racist but remain silent when it comes to systemic racial bias in education and employment. So again, race ONLY matters when you feel it is convenient to defend or justify the societal advantages of white people. When it comes to affirmative action or if a black person kills a white person (even when race wasn't a factor) you respond with opposition or concern. When a black college graduate is more likely to be unemployed than a white person with no more than a high school diploma, it doesn't matter to you. When a white person is more likely to not spend a day in prison for killing a black person unjustifiably, it doesn't matter to you. You ignore, deny, or justify racial issues that DO NOT affect white people and fabricate the perception of issues when you feel they affect white people. And it's because of this why I have called you what you are, a racist.
briantheliberal says2016-02-17T04:39:26.8417309Z
Mister_Man, how do you manage to go from rational person to asinine douche in only one post? And what is with ignorant people and these assumptions about me "not taking responsibility" when they talk about systemic racism? What am I not taking responsibility for? People like you love using that as a deflection instead of actually refuting what I say. It's pathetic.
triangle.128k says2016-02-17T04:41:50.2843508Z
Walls of text... The SJW really needs to chill.
briantheliberal says2016-02-17T04:43:53.7645749Z
Triangle, like I said. You're a pathetic hypocrite.
Heterodox says2016-02-17T04:44:50.6371069Z
What's wrong with racism, anyway?
triangle.128k says2016-02-17T04:45:51.5710975Z
"braintheliberal, again you resort to personal attacks. You're not even worth the time anymore." <--- Your logic used against you
briantheliberal says2016-02-17T04:47:25.6024065Z
Heterodox, ask the right wing. They seem to hate being called racist (even when they are) until they feel someone is doing or saying something against white people. So it obviously has to be a bad thing.
briantheliberal says2016-02-17T04:49:04.5869445Z
Triangle, okay. You're free to leave and take your hypocrisy with you.
Heterodox says2016-02-17T04:49:50.1902271Z
@briantheliberal, Right wing? That's the democrats, right? What's the difference?
briantheliberal says2016-02-17T04:52:34.8491357Z
Heterodox, the right wing haven't been Democrats for at least 50 years.
Heterodox says2016-02-17T04:54:58.4014028Z
@briantheliberal Oh, idk, seem similar Not sure which is which.
BrendanD19 says2016-02-17T05:01:48.4137293Z
@Heterodox +1
briantheliberal says2016-02-17T05:06:18.9246653Z
Heterodox, similar in what sense?
Dilara says2016-02-17T05:06:31.3269833Z
Briantheliberal Bringing awareness to a problem (Muslim rape and sexual harassment in Europe), that has effected my friend in Germany and is being covered up, does not promote racism against Arabs. I am calling attention to something people are denying and lying about. If I said that BLM rhetoric is anti-cop you would probably say that I was being stupid. I bring attention to black on white crime because it is often covered up in the mainstream American media. Go to Colin Flaherties channel if you still don't understand this. Muslim violence in Europe is covered up by the media. The Finish police were ordered by the National Finnish Police board to not mention the race of migrant criminals. The chancellor of Germany, Angela Merkel is collaborating with Mark Zuckerbgerg on how to stop anti immigration speech on Facebook. Ex Stasi members in Germany are working to censor anti migration speech. This problem is being covered up. These cases in Europe are not isolated. Similar mass assults, like whathappened in Cologne also happened in Kalmer Sweden, Helsinki, Stutenberg, Hamburg and Berlin. Youre idea that I try to show nonwhites as violent criminals is ridiculous. Those pictures accurately describe a large chunk of immigrants in Europe. I do not contribute to any racist systems. You and other authoritarians are more concerned about the reaction to those pictures than what actually happened in them. I call you an authoritarian SJW because you act like one. You silence people who disagree with you by calling them racists, even though they are not. You constantly use ad hominen attacks to avoid accepting harsh truths Black people are helped by educational and employment institutions. Its called affirmative action. Poverty in the black community is partly because of personal choices (crime single parenthood ect). Most of my right wing sources include videos and links to other language sources. Yeah.....With AA women and minorities don;t have to be as qualified as Asians whites and men to get jobs and spots...Therefor we are handed things we don't deserve. How are the SATs biased in favor of whites and Asians? Just when I though you couldn't get anymore stupid. BTW I have brought up the fact that black names get less call backs, but still thats better than AA. THE WAGE GAP IS A MYTH. It only takes into account the average earnings f men and women working full time and does not take into account hours worked or jobs. White people are not more likely to avoid prison for unjustifiably king a black person. I guess you're talking about cops.
Heterodox says2016-02-17T05:19:39.9741000Z
@briantheliberal In almost every way. One side just wants you to open your eggs on the big end, the other side wants you to open it on the little end.
Mister_Man says2016-02-18T02:46:48.3461908Z
Brian, you said white people have to "give up their white privilege." We don't have a "white privilege." That's why I said maybe you should take some responsibility for your actions and not blame white people for everything. And for saying that, I'm an asinine douche. Okay, well in the end you can keep being oppressed and depressed and crying on this site about it for everyone to laugh at.
Dilara says2016-02-18T03:48:02.2633414Z
Mister_Man Well said.
johnrjjj2008 says2016-02-21T02:04:50.3125774Z
Ok, I couldn't take time to read all previous comments- but y, sick of politics being delineated by religion, race, gender, color, etc etc- I could (personally) care less if my rep, sen, President was openly Muslim, Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, etc (though would prefer latter or atheist)-far more concerned with actual record, stance on issues- how they are going to FIGHT for the most vulnerable- vets in general, disabled (vets OR otherwise), mentally ill, homeless, etc- AND raise the economic prospects of all in the impoverished/lower/working/middle/etc classes. I've known bigots, racists, religious fundamentalists, idiots of every color, shape, size, religion, political orientation.
Renegader says2016-02-24T03:04:37.6077565Z
Yeah this whole thing is a shitshow
PericIes says2016-02-24T04:28:59.6767810Z
^
UtherPenguin says2016-02-24T04:59:23.0783025Z
I missed the flamewar again :(

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