"Look. I have been doing some soul searching over the last week. It was Varrack that really pushed me over the edge on this one. It was very hard to accept, but I was wrong. I have been wrong. Abortion IS in fact cruel. The pro-life people were right after all" TBR are you being sarcastic?
Mathgeekjoe - I have been trapped in a spiderweb of deceit. Focusing on large imagery, while ignoring the detail of the picture. When a man makes a mistake, it takes friends to find the mistake, and point it out. Thanks Varrack.
I'm pretty sure killing, slicing, dismembering, toxicating, poisining, an unborn fetus and flushing their limbs down the toilet is cruel. And who disagrees should have the abortion procedure done to them to see if it's cruel or not. Anyways, enough talk from me. See the videos down below from ACTUAL abortion survivors who has seen the procedure done to them and tell me if it's ''cruel'' or not.
RXR - I was hoping you would come along. "And who disagrees should have the abortion procedure done to them to see if it's cruel or not.". You are right paying penance. I don't know exactly how harsh my punishment will be, but I am man enough to accept the consequences for my mistakes.
This is very hard RXR. Do you know how you feel when you are forced into accepting you are beaten? How much guts it takes to just say, publicly, someone else got you at your own game? When you are in that spot, I hope others will show companion. Not make you eat crow (or bugs) to satisfy their lust for beating you.
@Dilara "tell that to someone who was an accident" - Accidents happen. I know I made one. Sometimes you get caught up in a cause. You choose quickly, or based on connections that you know exist, but still are only illusions. A flag waving in the breeze can look like a image of freedom, or a symbol of cruelty. Freedom of women to choose seems black and white, but color helps to distinguish what is right... Or just being a Nazi.
TBR. What about your other job?
And you've realized how cruel it is to put your social life above your own babies right to life and deny him a chance to be in this world for selfish reasons, and to have them sucked out of your belly and dismembered or in the case of late term abortion burned with saline.
Abby Johnson is a pro life activist who had 2 abortions and was a director of a planned parenthood clinic in Texas for 8 years. Than she was assisting an ultra sound guided abortion and saw the child squirm away from the canula and fight for his life. She had cleaned up fetal remains before and that wasn't was changed het mind. It was seeing the 12 week old fetus fight for it's life. Bernard nathanson was an abortion doctor and aborted 60,000 babies and founded NARAL pro choice America. He than became a pro life activist and narrated the film "silent scream" witch shows a video of an abortion (like what Abby Johnson saw, the baby squirms away).
Everyone makes mistakes.
@Dilara - Dilara... What can I say. The irony is working for the side of righteousness looks the same regardless if you are supporting abortion or working against it. Its like the symbols of racial hatred. From one side, it looks like pride and heritage, from another it looks like... Hate.
I as a pro life person forgive you. Everyone makes mistakes. Like in my last comment some of the greatest pro life activists have been people who had abortions, were abortion doctors or some how involved in the industry.
To take away a woman's choice is taking away her bodily autonomy.
A person's control over their own is above all important and must not be infringed upon.
Even when we die, no one can remove organs that might save the lives of many people without permission.
To tell people that they have to sacrifice their bodily autonomy for nine months against their will for an incredibly expensive, invasive and difficult procedure is desperately unethical.
You're asking people who can become pregnant to accept less control over their own bodies that corpses have.
@Dilara I am an "accident." I'm not exactly in the right place right now or the state of mind, so my opinion may be bias. Still, I didn't know my father until I was 13. I was graced with having a few uncles that helped build me up. (You've got to take what you can get.) Without that family though I would certainly be a lot worse for it. The struggle nearly ended several times already for various reasons. I am fighting, but to have another little one go through all that chit too? No guidance, few people to call upon for aid, I find us lacking in pity. So, I have to leave it to the discretion of the mothers. Do their children have a chance at living a good life in this world? Few people are eligible to adopt and even fewer do. Even now I feel indebted to so many, and I hate it, because I'll never be able to repay it.
Yahuaa. So the answer is yes. You wouldn't care If your mom aborted you. If you could go back in time and assure that you weren't aborted would you? Or would you just not care and leave it up t your mom.
@Dilara Who determines who has the right to live and who doesn't? Instead of protecting potential humans, why not help those that are already here? If you're so concerned about what other women choose to do, why not adopt a baby from someone who can't care for it? Or pay for its schooling? If you expect a person to give up the right to their own body, you better have a damned good reason.
I was in the foster care system. It's SEVERELY flawed. When you force a woman to stay pregnant against her will, you also force her to choose. Should she keep the baby she can't afford, or isn't ready for, or send it off to live in the system where in all likelihood it will suffer horribly very early on? Not every baby is adopted right away after it's born. There isn't always the perfect mommy and daddy waiting to take it home.
Instead of trying to take rights away from women, you need to fix the foster care system, or find a home for every orphan and abandoned child. Then, make prenatal care 100% free. Then, make sure every child can attend school.
Only then can you even think about forcing a woman to give up her bodily autonomy. By the way, bodily autonomy trumps other people, always. Did you not read my argument? Organs cannot be taken from corpses without permission, not matter how many lives depend on it.
" You wouldn't care If your mom aborted you. If you could go back in time and assure that you weren't aborted would you? Or would you just not care and leave it up t your mom."
I am guessing this is a hypothetical situation where you current exist in the timeline but there is disturbance in the timeline that will cause your mother to abort you, the question is if you had a time machine would you try to fix the disturbance?
Yahuaa. So if you could go back in time and assure your mom wouldn't abort you would you. Or would you leave of up to her?
And I support exceptions based on the socio economic status of the mom, the way the child was conceived, the health of the mom ect. If she's to pour to afford a kid that's different than if she can afford it but just want to party. And I support pro life homes where women can live. The people there help them find a job, a home and watch their kids to assure they won't abort. I also like Katie's way witch gives money to poor expecting moms who would otherwise have resorted to abortion. And I know adopted people who are pro life because they were unwanted in a way and could have been aborted but weren't.
I think I understand what you're trying to say. "wouldn't" abort me though? I'm here so I wasn't aborted. I wouldn't go back in time, and I'd let her figure it out as she sees fit. If she chose to abort me, I wouldn't hold it against her, for one I'd be dead, two it's natural. We're gonna go sometime. Best to avoid all the fear, hate, and creative manipulation people would do to one another to get their way. We're getting better, but it pulses like a heart. We get better then we regress and when we regress it hurts.
@Mathgeekjoe You know who else is scientifically human? Prisoners on death row. Children who are abandoned in the foster care system. People of other religions, no matter how extreme their views.
I see so many people trying to protect fetuses while trying to invalidate the mother's most basic rights, but I hardly see anyone stand up for other human beings who happen to have different views.
"Because they're scientifically human" is not a valid argument.
@C4unicorn. For one, there is a difference between a fetus and most but not all of the groups you mentioned. A fetus is an innocent human organism. Also I don't see how the fetus is violating the women's rights, the entire reason the fetus is there is because her body is choosing it. The only thing that is getting a right over the women is her own body.