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reece says2016-08-26T03:03:21.8518740Z
@NewLifeChristian So is capitalism without the correct social framework. Look at it crumble. Capitalism is rogue by nature. It's all of humanities worse attributes rolled into one.
foxxhajti says2016-08-26T08:22:49.2981358Z
Agreed with @reece.
NewLifeChristian says2016-08-26T14:07:59.6872002Z
@reece But capitalism is still a better alternative to communism, right?
karlmarx59 says2016-08-26T15:48:12.6365445Z
Agree with Reece!
reece says2016-08-26T16:30:30.8416908Z
@NewLifeChristian Communism is the ultimate product of capitalism.
reece says2016-08-26T16:44:44.9451827Z
@triangle.128k Yeah, without the correct framework in place. That goes for any economic model.
triangle.128k says2016-08-26T16:47:38.1862980Z
@reece Read an economics book please.
reece says2016-08-26T17:03:19.6020018Z
@triangle.128k It seems you're a one-trick pony.
liam2002 says2016-08-26T17:12:33.7558584Z
How is communism the ultimate product of capitalism?
triangle.128k says2016-08-26T17:13:53.7385965Z
@liam2002 Because according to communists, the ultimate product of Capitalism is economic destruction. Nothing destroys economies better than Communism, thus making it the ultimate product of Capitalism.
Throwback says2016-08-26T17:13:58.9535335Z
I know what reece is doing; we've been here before ;)
reece says2016-08-26T17:17:43.4374137Z
@liam2002 While capitalism is destroying its own framework, it's creating a communist economy (aka the sharing economy)
Knaveslayer99 says2016-08-26T17:21:07.3634797Z
@triangle.128k I wouldn't say Communism destroys economies while in some cases yes usually the downfall in Communist Societies isn't that the way of Communism fails but that outside forces often crush or sabotage Communist governments from lasting which we have seen in history plenty of times this also goes for Socialist governments.
triangle.128k says2016-08-26T17:23:24.0203557Z
It isn't just the outside forces of sanctions. Modern day socialist governments like in Venenzeula aren't working too well. Also remember the USSR had quite a bit of trade going on when half the world was communist.
Throwback says2016-08-26T17:25:52.8453097Z
Not only is Venezuela a failing "worker's paradise", with rampant poverty, it was a prosperous nation before abandoning relative freedom for the chains of Marx and Engels.
Knaveslayer99 says2016-08-26T17:25:56.4177326Z
Oh but of course communism can be very beneficial just as capitalism it just depends when communism is implemented like it was with Russia it pulled them out of their major struggle but when the system eventually failed it served its purpose and it was time for capitalism which is fair. I was just stating that usually outside forces end smaller communist governments before they can flourish.
Throwback says2016-08-26T17:27:50.9536668Z
Literacy is obviously not paramount in communist circles.
reece says2016-08-26T17:29:46.7609235Z
@Throwback Who was that directed to?
Throwback says2016-08-26T17:32:03.0200826Z
The Knave
Throwback says2016-08-26T17:33:48.9291615Z
Not that there is anything wrong with illiteracy. I just don't think a debate site is the proper venue for displaying it.
Knaveslayer99 says2016-08-26T17:34:10.3324987Z
I do apologize for my literacy at the moment it's quite cold and late where I am so I'm having difficulty typing probably.
liam2002 says2016-08-26T17:35:22.1673735Z
Oblivion is better then Skyrim
Throwback says2016-08-26T17:35:52.6847548Z
You just typed probably quite well and properly.
liam2002 says2016-08-26T17:36:31.0426980Z
Than, sorry
reece says2016-08-26T17:38:04.4416941Z
@Throwback I'm a well known dyslexic, just saying. You should see how much words I have to spellcheck.
Knaveslayer99 says2016-08-26T17:38:30.9321692Z
As I said I do apologize for how lacking I am at the moment with my literacy.
reece says2016-08-26T17:39:25.1264457Z
@Throwback triangle.128k knows.
Throwback says2016-08-26T17:41:39.6465789Z
It wasn't for you, reece.
reece says2016-08-26T17:45:56.0231628Z
@Throwback Nonetheless, what you said is fallacious.
liam2002 says2016-08-26T17:50:31.0252512Z
FUN RIDDLE The more you take away the bigger it gets?????????????????????????????
reece says2016-08-26T17:51:50.7427842Z
@liam2002 A hole.
liam2002 says2016-08-26T17:53:03.5805849Z
YES :) yay yay yay
reece says2016-08-26T17:57:41.0631210Z
You have a bag of sand. What do you put in it to make it lighter? ;)
liam2002 says2016-08-26T23:36:36.3032632Z
Also a hole
reece says2016-08-27T00:02:11.1080907Z
benhos says2016-08-27T01:47:01.3290233Z
I'm even more so against capitalism than communism... That doesn't mean communism is good... Very bad choice of pictures, my friend.
Fernyx says2016-08-31T18:41:12.4272933Z
Better if the leaders are good? No, it is bad all together. It promotes inequality by making people work harder jobs just to get less pay than fry cooks.
ThePostMarxist says2016-09-10T22:54:44.8675366Z
So much ignorance of what communism is. Communism is the end goal. Statelessness, classlessness and abolition of private ownership of the means of production, are all the things communists want
Wolfram says2016-09-11T02:39:26.8183999Z
@ThePostMarxist It's not an issue of ignorance, it's an issue of human rights.
triangle.128k says2016-09-11T02:50:22.4098575Z
Stateless communism is impossible because of human nature, Communism can only "work" in a totalitarian state.
triangle.128k says2016-09-11T02:51:04.8265294Z
And if a state doesn't exist, who's there to enforce the law?
reece says2016-09-11T06:33:34.1581537Z
ThePostMarxist says2016-09-11T08:05:03.4017342Z
By definition, communism isn't totalitarian. If there is a centralised government, it isn't communism as communism is the end goal of socialism, which can have a state, Communism is merely the stateless, classless, and decentralised society that runs after the whithering away of the state. All forms of the communist ideology usually only achieve the socialist state, but at best many of these can be called Crony capitalist, or fascist dictatorships as socialism advocates for a democratic system with worker's control and decentralised power
ThePostMarxist says2016-09-11T08:08:11.3673391Z
@Wolfram on the case of human rights. Surely, communism, a system oriented towards people's control and the end goal of a totally decentralised, stateless and classless society, is a system of human rights? I am a Marxist, and something of an anarchist I suppose, and my belief is that socialism, the first stage of most leftist ideologies (some could argue that social democracy, such as in Scandinavia and much of the Western World, is the first step of less leftist ideologies), is a movement in the right direction. That is to say, a resource-based economy where everyone gets their fair share and with it a vote in a democratic system. Surely it is more aligned with human rights, to provide people with resources that are their basic human right?
ThePostMarxist says2016-09-11T08:11:31.6726231Z
@triangle.128k. If there is no state, the idea of council communism/libertarian Marxism, is that power would be utterly decentralised and given to worker's councils and assembly democracy, within the framework of a resource-based economy. Crime rates would be lower anyway as money, greed, and our capitalist economy, are the motive for a lot of violent and financial crime, drugs and prostitution wouldn't be illegal either and would be regulated probably by the individual worker's councils within each municipality. Really the only crimes that would be committed would be crimes of passion, even then, an increased emphasis on individual liberty and freedom-of-choice would lead to less societal pressure and probably less cases of stress and depression
Wolfram says2016-09-12T03:41:50.2209213Z
@ThePostMarxist Not even having communism orientated to people's control will end people's natural desire for private ownership. Besides, we have military fields, resources and private property under the control of the communist government in the history. With or without socialism, the results remain the same. Anarchy is not an exception. Socialism, marxism, communism and other communistic economy systems were derived from Karl Marx's manifesto. Karl Marx proposed his own economy system in the hopes to remove the citizens' selfishness, class differences, and economic disparity by sharing the resources equally, and regard the citizens as the equals. In the end, the disparity still remains. Besides, selfishness is a part of human nature. The idea of "a totally decentralised, stateless and classless society" reminds me of the story of The Brave New World by Aldous Huxley. A disturbing story but a system failed to suppress the human nature.

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