Is Hungary in the right or wrong?

Posted by: BIGC

Was it ok for Hungary to shut there boarders down to Syrian refuges?

  • Yes

  • No

57% 16 votes
43% 12 votes
  • Look at what's happening to Italy.

  • yes... its THEIR border

  • Many of those refugees aren't refugees. The majority of them are young men, and many are coming from other areas, to take advantage of the refugee situation, for the European welfare while they start a new life. It's an invasion. They have specifically headed for those countries with large welfare systems, and if the migration isn't halted, Europe will fall. If these hoards had been curbed in the first place, screened to allow women and children, or obvious families, and sent back the young men who comprised the vast majority, there would now not be the huge numbers there are, complete with these men using violence to try to break in.

  • It's Hungary's border, and Hungary may do with it what it pleases.

  • The refugees have partially nowhere else to go, and most of them wouldn't have stayed Hungary anyway, and we're just using Hungary as a route to Germany, who pledged to take in the immigrants.

  • Only picking no because I think Uther has a good point aboug Hungary being used as a route to Germany.

  • Hungary could of at least set-up a transport system.

    Posted by: reece
  • Just make sure they all get across your border, none of them are looking to stay there anyways. Also recently they used tear gas on the refugees waiting on the border, that was too much.

  • These refugees are fleeing violence. These refugees have worse problems, and they are worried about competing for jobs. Yet many of these refugees have skills, education, it's not like they are going to be idle. If they are afraid of people taking jobs they should think about the long-term, that could push people to strengthen their skills and education and mean greater productivity and greater quality of life in the future for both native Hungarians and for immigrants. Competition drives innovation. Keeping competition out stunts growth.

  • These are war victims. Hungary should be open to them. However, I'm open to the Yes side because there may be good reasons for keeping them out.

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UtherPenguin says2015-09-17T00:20:55.1904436Z
I'd get why they would be hesitant to accepting so many refugees, but completely shutting your borders from the helpless is just crossing the line.
UtherPenguin says2015-09-17T00:27:01.5275919Z
Oops I meant to say they have *pratically * nowhere to go.
tajshar2k says2015-09-17T00:32:41.7813730Z
Ok Uther is right. They were going to Germany, and they need to pass through Hungary. So,pretty dumb move.
UtherPenguin says2015-09-17T01:08:44.5480368Z
Oh I also meant to say *were in my original comment, not we're
UtherPenguin says2015-09-17T01:08:55.8425092Z
Damm autocorrect
Vox_Veritas says2015-09-17T02:10:58.5838377Z
Europe should accept the refugees on several conditions: 1. That they'll be sent back to wherever they came from within 3 years or so. There should be an understanding by all parties that sheltering the refugees is a temporary thing. 2. If a refugee commits a crime that person will be deported back to wherever he came from. 3. A country should not be expected to receive more refugees than it can handle. 4. They follow the rules of the country sheltering them, they be thankful for whatever aid they are given, and they don't demand stuff like the right to vote or citizenship. Really, though, if Europe wants to handle the refugee crisis it should go straight to the root of the issue and intervene in the Syrian Civil War and the War against the ISIL.
Vox_Veritas says2015-09-17T02:12:24.5732425Z
Also, the immigrants are not to demand citizenship for whatever children they give birth to on European soil.
Vox_Veritas says2015-09-17T02:14:51.7006149Z
I really think that there's gonna be a huge anchor baby problem stemming from this.
Renegader says2015-09-17T02:18:57.1054402Z
This situation is getting out of hand, I fully support Hungary's decision
reece says2015-09-17T02:34:58.2588014Z
What happens when you have a clog? Things are going to get messy. Look at what i said in the vote.
PericIes says2015-09-17T02:39:43.8164733Z
*their
58539672 says2015-09-17T02:54:36.1125521Z
@Vox_Veritas I just want to bring up one little tidbit about your conditions. 1, 3, and 4 are reasonable enough requests, but 2 isn't. Refugees are given certain very specific rights under International law. One of them being that no nation can deport a refugee from their borders. Once a refugee makes it into their country, it is that countries responsibility to take care of them, regardless of any conditions.
chandlerrouse says2015-09-17T15:47:30.1413388Z
It is not a Yes or No answer. They feel overwhelmed by the assimilation of so many foreigners and Europe is not equipped or culturally used to such an influx of cultural clashes. Given the fact the United States is responsible for this and you have acres and acres of land, plus you say you are all knowing, all powerful, and all rich why don't you do something instead of turning your back like you did to the Jews in WWII, YES you ignorant historians AMERICA would not let JEWS immigrate. And now the story unfolds the same way, but this time Germany write history and it will be us the HERO and America the cruel bastards you are.I
tajshar2k says2015-09-17T15:49:15.2741873Z
America is responsible for this? How exactly?
The_American_Sniper says2015-09-17T15:50:55.6777181Z
Germans should be the last one commenting Americans not helping Jews. Your genocided 6 million Jews you murderers!
58539672 says2015-09-17T18:46:19.0945137Z
@chandlerrouse Im curious, How is the US responsible for the Syrian Civil war?
stargate says2015-09-17T20:22:06.0309528Z
Well I know that you are asking her but I shall gove my two cents on this issue. Well first off when we pulled out of Iraq it created a power vacum, this will get more important as I explain. Then soon the Syrian civil war starts at first it is the people vs the dictator. This dictator soon uses chemical weapons after Obama said that is the red line meaning he would not sit by and watch that happen. As you know we did nothing and I mean nothing. We refused to help or get involved and soon ISIA forms. They want to make an Islamic state (though basically every nothion in the middle east allready fellows it) but there version is extreme. They kill anyone who opposes them, they grow in land and power. This is partly due to us leaving Iraq unstable. Soon the syrians are caught in a war of three sildes. One silde the people wanting a better government and life aka the Kurd and free people syrian army, the syrain government and ISIS. Now if we hadn't left Iraq so soon things could be different. If we had been willing to fight in that war to began with we could have stop ISIS from forming in the first place and there wouldn't be millions leaving the nation.
Renegader says2015-09-17T20:41:05.2282553Z
That is bs. Toppling Hussein created the vacuum, not the exit. Iraq was a failure and so was Afghanistan.
tajshar2k says2015-09-17T20:43:02.8199425Z
Ya, we never should have gone to Iraq in the first place. Bush lied.
stargate says2015-09-17T21:21:10.9783447Z
One that is that bs it is true, two he was a dictator there is an number of reasons why we should involved we just picked the dumbest.
tajshar2k says2015-09-17T21:23:48.1374841Z
Invading a a country because who could possibly have WMDS is a horrible reason.
stargate says2015-09-17T21:41:02.4356569Z
I know it is, but it is not like Iraq had a bunch of saints in there government.
58539672 says2015-09-17T22:59:23.4456592Z
If your answer to "how is the US responsible for the Syrian war" that we invaded Iraq, then you are manipulating history to fit your own views. The Syrian civil wars cause was due to civil unrest between the Assad regime and its people (like using chemical weapons on them), foreign military support for the regime from Iran, China, and Russia, and the absence of US forces in the region (which left a power gap for ISIS to fill). But I know what you'll say. "But we should never have invaded Iraq". Well the Iraq invasion in 2003 wouldn't have happened if we just toppled him in 1992 in the Gulf war. And those wars wouldn't have happened if Saddam's party never gained power in the 1968 coup. And the coup wouldn't have happened if the Kingdom of Iraq wasn't weak and and inefficient. And the Kingdom of Iraq wouldn't have been weak if the British hadn't made their former colonies heavily reliant on their rule for basic governmental functions. And the British wouldn't have done that if they hadn't claimed the land as a prize after defeating the Ottoman's in WW1 and so on and so on. Stop blaming past conflicts for modern day ones. It is pointless and the blame can just be passed all the way back to the end of time.
Emilrose says2015-09-17T23:33:11.0776048Z
Whether they are *only* traveling through Hungary or not is irrelevant. The point is that these 'refugees' are arriving into Europe en masse and coming in unprecedented numbers. Hungary has every right to protect its borders...As with many other occasions it is saying 'no' to the E.U and preserving its own interests.
tajshar2k says2015-09-17T23:35:43.5364048Z
Stargate , alot of countries are pretty bad when it comes to human rights and brutality. Doesn't mean thats a good reason to invade him. We should have gone to atleast 5 countries at the time if that were the reason.
Emilrose says2015-09-17T23:36:48.0892048Z
Also Germany is the 3rd biggest seller of weapons so they are hardly angels.
tajshar2k says2015-09-17T23:38:22.9060048Z
Sorry if I offend anybody, but it's absolutely crazy for anybody to still justify going to Iraq. We made a place that was pretty bad, into a very very bad place. We went there to destroy WMDs, no WMDS, Apparently Al-Qaeda was there, but Al Qaeda only came after our invasion, We tried to get oil, Saddam blew up the oil refineries. We failed in pretty much every aspect there is to it in Iraq.
Renegader says2015-09-18T00:08:55.5403380Z
@Taj Sad that some people still refuse to admit it. They play semantic games and pass blame backwards without addressing the more modern mistake, as if somehow that makes it better.
stargate says2015-09-18T00:49:30.5911650Z
I was not saying that was the reason why it happened. As much as I would love to go to war against certain nations we can not fight five different nations all at once unless they are weak with poor generals. Germany is bettee then Syria and Saudi Arabia. Yes it failed but I will never admint we shouldn't keep on trying to make the world a better place. It could be some nation in Asia that I never heard of, but as long as the government breacks human rights has terrorism and has something that we can use or gain to justify an invasion. We are the only ones in this crazy world willing to use force to protect freedom and justice.
tajshar2k says2015-09-18T00:51:47.2341927Z
Stargate you want to keep trying, keep spending billions, keep spending American blood to fix some problem? How many times are you going to try?
stargate says2015-09-18T00:58:33.4619569Z
As many as needed.
tajshar2k says2015-09-18T00:58:48.0990861Z
We as world leaders should be preventing war, not creating opportunities to fight even more. Back in 1918, they said WW1 was the war to end all wars.. What happened? WW2 happened, and the casualties were nearly 6 times as many.
stargate says2015-09-18T00:59:53.7712717Z
Yet WW2 could have been prevented if we attacked before we let them grow strong.
stargate says2015-09-18T01:00:26.9838846Z
Also look at South Korea and Japan, I am willing to say that we have done more bad then good.
tajshar2k says2015-09-18T01:01:36.5759307Z
I'd disagree. We have done wayy more good than bad, but the bad stands out, because we are supposed to be the good guys.
stargate says2015-09-18T01:03:46.7899654Z
I meant to say more good then bad.
stargate says2015-09-18T01:04:21.4221874Z
I mean why would I say more bad then good I mean look at my profile and debates.
tajshar2k says2015-09-18T01:04:47.8487568Z
Stargate, we didn't attack them, because germany was peaceful for the most part between the two wars. Only near the end Hitler came into power, and quickly mobilized his army. An attack earlier would have been pointless.
stargate says2015-09-18T01:06:30.1698127Z
I meant when he came into power and began the mobilization of the army and move into lands he was not supposed to move into. Rhinelands
tajshar2k says2015-09-18T01:07:36.6262387Z
I don't think anybody is stupid enough to say the U.S has done more harm than good to the world. But we need to own up to our mistakes, and not repeat them.
tajshar2k says2015-09-18T01:08:42.6614620Z
That literally happened so fast nobody even had idea of what to expect. The U.S only went to war after Japan attacked us, so we wouldn't have done anything to Germany prior.
Varrack says2015-09-18T01:14:23.0556440Z
I think I'm leaning toward No. Just because it's their border doesn't make it "right" for them to do unethical stuff, such as shutting it down to war victims.
Emilrose says2015-09-18T01:37:37.8761851Z
@Varrack, and what exactly has Hungary done that classifies as 'unethical'? They have taken thousands of refugees into the country (enabling them to get to Germany) and provided assistance to them. Essentially however they have an *interest* in protecting their borders and cannot manage the unprecedented numbers of migrants that are attempting to enter their territory.
stargate says2015-09-18T10:07:11.9864747Z
You know they are refugees not migrants. And yes there is an difference.
Renegader says2015-09-18T16:22:43.0720299Z
Of course they are migrants, why do you think they are not staying in safe Turkey. They are trying to make it to Germany because it is economically the best idea.
idoubtit says2015-09-18T17:36:43.8011849Z
Perhaps if Europe had participated in it's own protection from terrorists in the Middle East, instead of sitting back and relying on the US to spend all the money and troops until the US could do no more, or if Europe had at least then at that point, stepped up their game, this wouldn't be happening. Or maybe if Germany hadn't put out a neon welcome sign it's had to retract, the hordes would have moved in another direction. There are plenty of maybes that could go around, but this much is certain: The US didn't create Islamic extremists and isn't responsible for their chosen activities. And the US isn't responsible for what Europe brought on itself.
Emilrose says2015-09-18T17:56:39.0013081Z
@stargate, so I guess that's why the situation is continuously referred to as the 'European migrant crisis'? Not all of them are defined as refugees or qualify for refugee status.
stargate says2015-09-18T18:09:35.7714457Z
True but some are.
58539672 says2015-09-18T18:10:06.0033288Z
@Renegader Turkey already has 1.6 million refugees as is. They are having trouble feeding, housing, and taking care of that many people, with many refugees being held in living conditions that actually violate a few international laws. Jordan and Lebanon are in the same boat. Because of this many refugees are traveling to Europe to seek better asylum. Most of those traveling through Hungary and those nations are just trying to get to Germany, which has offered to except more refugees. They aren't going to Germany because it is the best nation economically. They are going there because thus far that is the only nation which is trying to help.
58539672 says2015-09-18T18:14:48.6771408Z
@Renegader Plus all these refugees that European nations are complaining about only make up about 5% of all the refugees from the civil war. The vast majority are being held in Turkey, Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq, and Egypt. All these nations have already passed the number of refugees they can reasonably take care off, hence the recent movement of refugees to Europe.
58539672 says2015-09-18T18:19:28.8168502Z
This is what happens when Europe, the US, Russia, and everyone else ignores a crisis for 4 years without doing anything. Syria's neighbors have been dealing with this for years, but because a small percentage try and get to Europe it suddenly becomes a big deal.
Renegader says2015-09-18T19:13:22.0102258Z
If you think these people have any intention of leaving after their allowed time you are sorely mistaken
58539672 says2015-09-18T20:54:49.0756825Z
@Renegader It doesn't matter if they stay or not. Europe and the rest of the developed world has a responsibility under international law to help these refugees. International law that Europe helped write by the way.
Emilrose says2015-09-18T21:52:48.5809858Z
1000 per hour arriving at Croatian borders is hardly a 'small percentage'. Additionally Germany has now stated that it itself cannot manage the vast numbers of migrants/refugees coming into its country.
chandlerrouse says2015-09-18T22:19:04.8468324Z
Rnad Paul they are not Jews ignorado, they are muslims.
chandlerrouse says2015-09-18T22:20:21.1931794Z
Wins law is all you have to "attack" me with...I will talk about Cambodia, VietNam, Iraq ,Afghanistan, Indian Ocean, let's see shall we go on?
58539672 says2015-09-18T22:21:08.6954839Z
@Emilrose 1000 per hour is still a small percentage when you look at the 4.5 million refugees coming out of Syria alone, never mind Iraq, Afghanistan, and a half dozen African nations. The exact number of refugees and migrants traveling through the Balkans only numbers in the tens of thousands. Italy has similar numbers. So yes, it is a small percentage.
chandlerrouse says2015-09-18T22:24:13.0106654Z
How is the US responsible. Ugh REALLY. Let's start with two illegal wars. Then breaking up the Iraqi army and government displacing all the people. Then the rivalries rose again and they hate for America began to spill over into other countries when ISIS was formed out of the Syrian army using all the equipment the US left laying around undestroyed. Figured it out yet bozos? As for WWII Lookup Roosevelt and the EVIAN conference then boo hoo about the Jews.
chandlerrouse says2015-09-18T22:24:58.7657587Z
AC DC is correct!
chandlerrouse says2015-09-18T22:26:21.6334899Z
Idoubtit, maybe if America had keep it's ass out of a criminal war Europe wouldn't be having this problem and you should be hanging Bush and Cheney for it.
chandlerrouse says2015-09-18T22:28:19.5234456Z
Emily rose you have not one factual comment coming out of you pie hole.
58539672 says2015-09-18T22:33:48.0147513Z
@chandlerrouse Unlikely. The Syrian civil war started as a result of the Arab Spring movement, which itself developed independently from the US' wars through the use of social media. Once the Assad regime started cracking down on protesters rather brutally, civil war was inevitable. ISIS may also have existed given that they started in Syria as a result of the conflict, but they would have never capitalized on the US withdraw in Iraq to become a key player. They would be just one of many minor radical Islamic groups. Assad is the main cause of the conflict in Syria. The US and allies made it worse with there wars as did Russia, Iran, and China with their support for Assad.
Emilrose says2015-09-18T22:57:35.5038370Z
Haha shut up you silly B1tch.
Emilrose says2015-09-18T23:00:33.4408588Z
Feel free to make any sensible and 'factual' arguments of your own, which so far you have completely not done. You clearly have no grasp or knowledge of the situation what so ever, you retarded little c0ck sucker.
Emilrose says2015-09-18T23:02:39.1480762Z
And btw b1tch, your pathetic country closed its borders yesterday to the refugees/migrants. Try reading some news sometimes!
tajshar2k says2015-09-18T23:21:30.7267019Z
@chandlerrouse Eh yeah, read a history book before you blame a country for a religion that turns people into terrorists. The amount of people America in the war of terror, is still less than what Germany did in WW2.
Midnight1131 says2015-09-18T23:29:54.2199294Z
@Chandlerrouse, LOL. You're from Germany and you're criticizing America's treatment of the Jews in WWII?! This is comedy gold.
Midnight1131 says2015-09-18T23:31:10.3640175Z
Not to mention the entire refugee crisis wasn't caused by the Iraq war, a large percentage of them are coming out of Syria. I await your pathetic attempt to pin that on America as well.
tajshar2k says2015-09-18T23:46:54.7871452Z
Chandlerrouse and Heil would be best friends on this site. Both share their pointless rhetoric to everyone on the site.
Emilrose says2015-09-18T23:51:35.7518725Z
Ikr, puta needs to shut her pie hole.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-09-19T00:06:07.8677194Z
@Emilrose -- Dont worry about that chandlerrouse chick. She's a troll who swears she has 2 PhDs at 15 years old...Thing is......I did some research and figured out who she really is. Her initials are L.S. I know everything about her troll self lol
Emilrose says2015-09-19T00:12:47.1288223Z
2 PhD's at 15?! That's hilarious. No doubt its real name is 'Loser Shutztard'.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-09-19T00:35:32.4800536Z
I love the identifier "Its" LOL
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-09-19T00:46:16.6632415Z
@tajshar2k -- Gotta love family guy || (Brian and Stewie are on a German tour bus.) German Tour Guide: You vill find more on Germany's contributions to ze arts in ze pamphlets ve have provided. Brian : Yeah, about your pamphlet... Uh, I'm not seeing anything about German history between 1939 and 1945. There's just a big gap. Tour guide: Everyone vas on vacation. On your left is Munich's first city hall, erected in 15... Brian : Wait, what are you talking about? Germany invaded Poland in 1939 and... Tour Guide: We were invited. Punch vas served. Check vit Poland. Brian : You can't just ignore those years. Thomas Mann fled to America because of Nazism's stranglehold on Germany. Tour guide: Nope, nope. He left to manage a Dairy Queen. Brian : A Dairy Queen? That's preposterous. Tour guide: I vill hear no more insinuations about the German people. Nothing bad happened. Sie werden sich hinsetzen. Sie werden ruhig sein. Sie werden nicht beleidigen Deutschland. You will sit down. You will shut up. You will not insult Germany. (Throws his hand up in a Hitler salute.) Brian : Uh, is that a beer hall? Tour guide: (Snapping out of it) Oh yes, Munich is renowned for its historic beer halls.
tajshar2k says2015-09-19T01:16:41.4774013Z
@MSPD LOL
idoubtit says2015-09-19T14:51:10.7475680Z
@chandlerrouse. I think my sentiments toward you have already been covered by others, saving me the trouble of much stronger language.
Emilrose says2015-09-19T16:46:48.3772397Z
Because Spain actually has some sense, you little freaky German.
stargate says2015-09-19T17:25:22.1666847Z
Guys stop, unless you want to hear about america being the best.
PericIes says2015-09-19T17:54:57.5222520Z
@stargate There is no such thing as a "best" country.
UtherPenguin says2015-09-19T17:56:27.6037578Z
@Perciles Except for North Korea.
MasturDbtor says2015-09-19T18:11:11.2648939Z
Only about 4% of Europe is Muslim and even if every Syrian refugee was Muslim (and a sizable minority of them are Christian) that percentage would rise only to 5%. Add to that the fact that in the next generation, a sizeable percentage of children of Muslim immigrants leave Islam mostly for Christianity or for nonreligion. Fears about the refugees radically transforming Europe are unfounded. Not only that but Europe needs more immigrants. Many countries in Europe are losing population. If they don't want a crisis in their ability to fund people's retirements they will need more immigrants. Immigrants also don't just take jobs. They do in some sectors, but on the whole and in the long term immigrants lead to more job creation because of an increased need for services. The result is jobs that can't be outsourced increase, while competition increases for jobs that can be outsourced. But even then immigrants may be even more competitive for jobs that can be outsourced if they never immigrate. Regardless you shouldn't be afraid of competition, you should rise to the occasion, work and study hard and appreciate that in doing so you are promoting the growth of innovation. Competition provides society with a net benefit. Some extra competition may be all the difference between a cure for cancer or Alzheimer's arriving a decade sooner, because people are pushed harder to achieve.
stargate says2015-09-19T18:16:47.3288136Z
I know
tajshar2k says2015-09-19T19:32:52.2703104Z
Just a small correction, that number is 6% but thats 44 million muslims.
chandlerrouse says2015-09-19T21:50:25.9325703Z
AC?DC I am curious why do you have your nose in everyone's business?
58539672 says2015-09-19T21:55:50.8826533Z
@chandlerrouse Other peoples business? You are on a public website where people come to debate and discuss various topics. Their is no "public" anything. If you say something, it is the right of everyone on this site to comment on it. So when I see you say something that has some blatantly biased and or incorrect information, I both have the right and the greatest privilege to point out how wrong you are.

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