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Haroush says2014-07-28T21:25:40.5055940-05:00
Okay, so how is Israel so bad when the people of Palestine voted in Hamas for their leadership.. Not to mention the fact, Israel did warn the innocent people of Palestine to leave with a significant amount of time before they started bombing Hamas's secret tunnels.
Haroush says2014-07-28T21:30:24.9926648-05:00
Furthermore, what about the threat Hamas will pose to the United States if ISIS and them collaborate on a plan to attack the United States since many of the terrorist in ISIS are from European countries that don't require VISAS in order to come to the United States?
SocialistAtheistNutjob says2014-07-28T21:31:36.1300328-05:00
It doesn't matter if you support Palestine or Israel in the conflict. Hamas is a messed up organization.
Haroush says2014-07-28T21:32:11.9880447-05:00
The truth is, Israel is the only fundamentally sound Democracy in the Middle East we can trust.. So it would be a BIG mistake for the United States to turn their back on them.
Haroush says2014-07-28T21:35:31.8281148-05:00
Explain how it doesn't matter who you support? You mean to tell me by not doing nothing and picking no sides is going to help the situation? No. It can't and it will not. Sanctions only go so far and wouldn't matter since Palestine is receiving a lot of support from Iran and ISIS.
Haroush says2014-07-28T21:37:21.7237743-05:00
In return, Iran is receiving a lot of support from Germany and Russia..
Haroush says2014-07-28T21:37:50.0361408-05:00
It's ironic if you ask me..
YamaVonKarma says2014-07-28T21:38:35.6947065-05:00
How is it Ironic?
Haroush says2014-07-28T21:41:21.0607656-05:00
Iran, Russia, and Germany have always had close ties since WWII.. Of course the relationship between Russia and Germany fell apart, but what does it matter, history repeats it's self it seems.
Haroush says2014-07-28T21:49:27.2535144-05:00
SocialistAtheistNutjob says2014-07-28T21:51:59.0843507-05:00
When I said it doesn't matter who you support, I meant that regardless if you support either Israel or Palestine, everyone should be against Hamas
Haroush says2014-07-28T21:53:53.5301514-05:00
That's true @ SAN
Haroush says2014-07-28T22:03:02.3155049-05:00
The only problem is Palestine is Hamas's government and if there was a two state solution with Hamas, then imagine consequences of this.. Furthermore, why is it we aren't doing much in these international conflicts?? I mean sanctions aren't working, we send old maps, stale food, and faulty guns to Ukraine.. In return we offer help to pinpoint the Russian rebels.. But, that is it? What are we doing?? This is like letting multiple infectious wounds fester and turn into MRSA.
SweetTea says2014-07-29T06:14:45.1233829-05:00
The problem is, as Haroush has pointed out, Hamas members are elected to office in Palestine. While we scratch our heads at the idea, keep in mind that Hezbollah has its members in Lebanon's government. Sein Finn is the political arm of the IRA, in Ireland. Apparently, having ties to terrorism doesn't always end careers. Instead, it builds new ones. Remember when Yassar Arafat (founder of the PLO & the Bin Laden of his day) was elected President in Palestine? Even here, in the good old U.S. of A., we have elected former members of known hate-groups (K*K) to elected office. So, while we may not clearly understand Hamas or why anyone placed them in "leadership", we must recognize them diplomatically & try to work toward peace with both sides. In other words, walk a tight-rope!
Haroush says2014-07-29T16:15:56.2347720-05:00
Why can't Obama force the leader of Hamas to step down?
Seido says2014-07-29T16:19:18.3366585-05:00
... Because Obama isn't in control of Hamas, lol. Hamas was illegally elected in violation of the Oslo Accords, but so long as they're supported by the Palestinians in the West Bank, we don't have much sway over them
SocialistAtheistNutjob says2014-07-29T16:23:23.5688964-05:00
If Obama wanted to level the entire gaza strip in 48 hours, he could. But that would be a bad political move. Hamas won't listen to reason, so the only other option is force.
Haroush says2014-07-29T16:25:12.9716964-05:00
Well I am sorry, but they shouldn't be recognized diplomatically.. These people (Hamas) are scum that will just fester into an even bigger problem..
YamaVonKarma says2014-07-29T16:26:57.6476964-05:00
Killing mass amounts of civilians is the current problem. You act as if we haven't quietly assassinated world leaders before. Ukraine, Ireland, and Palestine are all just being allowed to escalate.
Haroush says2014-07-29T16:27:25.7432964-05:00
I would argue since Hamas has been recognized diplomatically, it has done nothing, but embolden them. Even worse, they have joined forces with ISIS.
Haroush says2014-07-29T16:36:15.2369004-05:00
Are you kidding me? Those people in Palestine Chose to accept Hamas.. Besides the civilians that are still there, have no good reason to be there as they were given a significant amount of time to leave..
SweetTea says2014-07-29T19:12:29.8524915-05:00
Haroush ... I sympathize with how you feel about Hamas, but we can't select the leaders of other countries. So, diplomatically, we must work with them. Hamas isn't the first terrorist group to put members in leadership. They won't be the last. Likewise, we must try to maintain open-channels with dictators who aren't choir boys, i.e. Kim Jong-un. Then, you have leaders who suddenly behave badly, i.e. Putin. When we force one from power, we sometimes get more than we bargained for, i.e. Saddam/Iraq. Foreign Affairs isn't as simple as separating two kids on the playground.
Haroush says2014-07-29T19:16:20.1657086-05:00
I believe the leaders of Hamas should be secretly killed and let the people of Palestine choose a new leader.. Besides, it's been said Hamas forced some of those people to stay there and had the elections rigged.
Haroush says2014-07-29T19:17:45.5913086-05:00
Though what I said there is hear say..
Haroush says2014-07-29T19:20:24.8816265-05:00
Honestly, we should make another deck of cards out of the Hamas leaders, fly drones over there, and blow their asses up! Also, do you say the same thing about ISIS despite the fact they are doing an ethnic cleansing?
Haroush says2014-07-29T19:24:28.8079173-05:00
What about the fact many of the fighters of ISIS don't require visas in order to come to the U.S.? This isn't mentioning the fact Hamas has close ties with ISIS..
YamaVonKarma says2014-07-29T19:25:24.4783047-05:00
I find it all quite funny
YamaVonKarma says2014-07-29T19:25:57.1212156-05:00
This is why I insist religions shouldn't be politically recognized. They always cause conflict.
Haroush says2014-07-29T19:26:36.5980293-05:00
How is it funny?
Haroush says2014-07-29T19:36:16.7651316-05:00
How is this funny..
Haroush says2014-07-29T19:38:01.0687374-05:00
Not all Muslims are causing conflict neither is any other religion except these deranged nut cases in ISIS and Hamas.
Haroush says2014-07-29T19:42:57.9580467-05:00
That's like saying all humans are nut cases because of the psychiatric patients in mental wards..
YamaVonKarma says2014-07-29T19:45:35.3806740-05:00
YOur religions have done nothing but divide you and cause you to fight yourselves.
SocialistAtheistNutjob says2014-07-29T20:09:13.0579365-05:00
This is partly the reason that I'm atheist. When it comes down to it, religious people don't practice what they preach. Islam preaches peace, Christianity preaches peace, Judaism preaches peace, but in the end we're all ready and willing to kill each other anyway
Haroush says2014-07-29T21:13:23.1732325-05:00
Umm.. Sorry, you all are wrong... There are no extremist Christian groups like that of ISIS going around forcing people to convert to Christianity or die... Neither is there extremist Jewish groups going around doing this either..
YamaVonKarma says2014-07-29T21:14:43.0075110-05:00
Roman Era Jews, and Crusade Era Christians. It's the Muslim's turn to be extremists.
Haroush says2014-07-29T21:15:08.0988325-05:00
Christianity has held to it's standards and so has all other religions except for the few exceptions.. Just like the few exceptions of extreme atheist groups..
Haroush says2014-07-29T21:16:49.9200325-05:00
It's ironic, when ever chaos arises, everyone feels obligated to point the finger at someone rather than the problem its self.
YamaVonKarma says2014-07-29T21:18:04.6881894-05:00
Religion is the problem. Jews and Muslims are fighting each other. Pretty damn simple.
Haroush says2014-07-29T21:30:08.5943607-05:00
I will say this though.. Every group of people have had their fair share of atrocities.. The Jews during the era of Herod, The Muslims of today aren't making their best place in history, and Christians most atrocious times were during Ancient Rome. Atheist most atrocious times were during the Civil War in the United States, WW1 and 2.... What about Stalin? What about a lot of people? Remember the perfect Christian isn't Christian's themselves, but Jesus Christ.. The leader of the Messianic movement.. Yeshua Hamashiach
YamaVonKarma says2014-07-29T21:31:54.5305476-05:00
By the nine Gods! How were atheists responsible for atrocities during the civil war? Christianity is the largest religion in America.
Haroush says2014-07-29T21:32:30.6011607-05:00
Religion isn't the problem... It's about who's property is who's
Haroush says2014-07-29T21:33:53.2488306-05:00
(My last comment is regarding the issue between Palestine and Israel.)
Haroush says2014-07-29T21:37:24.5704944-05:00
It is as simple as the Jewish people have owned this land of Palestine much longer than Palestine has even existed which is because of the Ancient Romans who named that piece of land Palestine after Israel's arch enemy as an insult.
Haroush says2014-07-29T21:40:20.9786868-05:00
Furthermore, Christianity nor Judaism has something called "Sharia Law" where it can be used to force people to convert or die..
YamaVonKarma says2014-07-29T21:41:18.2629884-05:00
Religious conflict. All the big three religions should have access to the region. Having a Jewish state take up the entire bank is cause for conflict.
Haroush says2014-07-29T21:43:41.9478317-05:00
It is rightfully the Jewish peoples' Land! I just explained this..
Seido says2014-07-29T21:45:34.8099219-05:00
@Haroush No, Christians used to be amazing horrible. There was everything from the crusades to the Spanish Inquisition to anti-Jewishness. Most of that has ended now because Christianity became fused with the Western powers and became more advanced and civilized with said western powers. Christianity still has its extreme sects, including those within the US that preach hatred towards groups such as the LGBT community. Islam, as it has always been deeply entrenched in the middle-east and Eastern-Europe, which haven't yet advanced in the same way as most of the western powers. This has resulted in it remaining a violent religion. @Yama The problem is rooted in religion, but the blame is not equally spread. When it comes to the Gaza Strip, as I have explained before, primarily lies on the Islamic extremists of Hamas. Israel's killing of civilians is saddening, but it is a direct result of Hamas' crude methods. Firing rockets at Israel, storing and firing their weapons in civilian areas, using Palestinians as human shields, and spending their money on terror tunnels as opposed to on the protection of their citizens has all led to Israel's response. I refer you to my multiple responses to you in the past. In short, the deaths are sad, but unless Hamas agrees to permanently stop endangering civilians on both sides, to amend their charter as to exclude the anti-Semitic and anti-Israeli sentiments found within it, and then comes to the bargaining table as Fatah has done already, they are going to be more or less an inevitable and justified tragedy. @SweetTea No, we really don't have to recognize Hamas as a democratically elected organization. They were elected illegally in violation of the Oslo Accord, have broken multiple international agreements, and continue to threaten and attack one of our most important allies. We might not like the supreme leader of Iran, but we accept him in a diplomatic sense because he was elected legally and has yet to break national agreements. Hamas, on the other hand, is not a group that we must, or even should, recognize as a legitimate authority.
Haroush says2014-07-29T21:46:57.1483053-05:00
It seems people always have to learn the hard way and even after they do, they forget about it eventually and go back to the same way they were before..
YamaVonKarma says2014-07-29T21:47:32.4361839-05:00
Land is rightfully no ones. People can claim all they like. World heritage should still takeover.
Seido says2014-07-29T21:47:51.3786121-05:00
And Haroush, the bible, nor any other religious text, is ever going to be a valid argument for why Israel is in the right. There are many reasons as to why they mostly are, but texts that were written thousands of years ago without any certifiable proof to back them up are not among them.
Seido says2014-07-29T21:49:03.6378121-05:00
And no, neither Judaism nor Christianity have Sharia Law, but both have extremist sects who follow their own versions of Sharia Law, respective of their own religious texts.
Seido says2014-07-29T21:50:05.1174121-05:00
@Yama And it being a Jewish state in that area might be a cause of the problem, but it does not justify the actions of Hamas in the slightest.
YamaVonKarma says2014-07-29T21:51:00.2789808-05:00
Wasn't saying it did. They're both children fighting over land.
Seido says2014-07-29T21:53:09.9330741-05:00
@Haroush Oh, and that little tangent about the American Civil War and the Soviet Union are entirely invalid. Atheism had almost nothing to do with the American Civil War. While the Soviet Union was an Atheist society, its atheist leanings had absolutely nothing to do with the atrocities committed by the likes of Stalin.
Seido says2014-07-29T21:55:28.0359992-05:00
And that's not really true. Fatah is fighting for an independent Palestine. Be that a good idea or not, it isn't just about land with Fatah, it is about the independence of a people. When it comes to Hamas, they're fighting like a child for land. When it comes to Israel in general, they're usually just fighting for peace.
Haroush says2014-07-29T22:10:36.2549404-05:00
No, Christians used to be amazing horrible. There was everything from the crusades to the Spanish Inquisition to anti-Jewishness. Most of that has ended now because Christianity became fused with the Western powers and became more advanced and civilized with said western powers. Christianity still has its extreme sects, including those within the US that preach hatred towards groups such as the LGBT community. Islam, as it has always been deeply entrenched in the middle-east and Eastern-Europe, which haven't yet advanced in the same way as most of the western powers. This has resulted in it remaining a violent religion. @ Seido, Most of the time when Christians are being accused of preaching hate against LGBT's, it is bogus.. The only group I know of that is like that is the Westboro Baptist Church.. Other than that, there may be a few others, but that is it. Despite the hate, I haven't seen any Christian groups going around saying convert or die... By the way, explain to me how Christians were involved with the Spanish Inquisition?
Haroush says2014-07-29T22:12:05.6585404-05:00
"The problem is rooted in religion" .. The problem isn't rooted in religion.. It is rooted in resources and land..
Seido says2014-07-29T22:14:58.6890420-05:00
@Haroush Anti-LGBT feelings and anti-LGBT preachers are fairly prominent and common within the Christian world. It can range from outright bigotry to those that argue against gay marriage based off of Christian notions. And you're kidding about the Spanish Inquisition, right? It was entirely fueled by Christianity. Feel free to read the Wikipedia article on it for some of the basics, lol.
Haroush says2014-07-29T22:16:40.1689935-05:00
@Seido, At least we agree Hamas doesn't need to be or should be supported..
Seido says2014-07-29T22:17:25.1914593-05:00
@Haroush Yes... It is, lol. Much of the conflicts based around the conflicting beliefs about having a Jewish state.
Seido says2014-07-29T22:18:29.5757194-05:00
Yes, I suppose that it is good that we can agree on that.
YamaVonKarma says2014-07-29T22:20:35.1573294-05:00
We can all agree on that.
Haroush says2014-07-29T22:22:11.9873745-05:00
Okay, what about all the Islam states, Christian States, and Atheist States? There is only one Jewish State and they should be able to keep that..
Haroush says2014-07-29T22:27:03.1447590-05:00
I hate having delayed message receiving abilities..
Seido says2014-07-29T22:28:05.6305752-05:00
As was stated earlier, Christianity has evolved with western nations and therefore no longer has the same grasp over politics as it once did. However, it was only a few hundred years ago that Christianity had a vast amount of control over both European nations and the US. It still has an effect over public policy, such as with gay marriage, but a while ago it had much more control.
YamaVonKarma says2014-07-29T22:31:46.4060208-05:00
There were these things called the Holy Roman Empire, and the Ottoman Empire. The Babylonians also had two Mesopotamian empires.
Haroush says2014-07-29T22:36:46.7413857-05:00
Did you all see this though?? It's sick..
YamaVonKarma says2014-07-29T22:37:27.9727143-05:00
Seido says2014-07-29T22:38:19.8923877-05:00
One, biased source. Get information about that from a reputable source. Two, it doesn't remotely negate anything that we just spoke about.
Haroush says2014-07-29T22:47:26.0120898-05:00
If the information is true what does it matter.. All people know how to do is try to find error in someone's judgments..
Seido says2014-07-29T22:51:32.7152340-05:00
It doesn't come from a reputable source, so I don't know how true it actually is. And it was a total tangent from what we were talking about, so I fail to see why you would bring it up.
YamaVonKarma says2014-07-29T22:53:03.8365863-05:00
Vlad Tepes was christian
Haroush says2014-07-30T05:17:07.6210547-05:00
Seido, It is Americans like you that are too smart for their own good.. Smh
SweetTea says2014-07-30T05:41:22.2086270-05:00
Actually, today's problems in Israel started about 2000 years ago when Romans took away their land. Now, flash-forward to the end of WWII. The UN declared that the Jews would have a homeland in Palestine. They voted to divide the land. While the Jews were pleased, the Arab community felt robbed. An invasion by Arab nations followed. When an armistice finally came in '49, Israel had more land ... Jordan had the West Bank ... Egypt had Gaza ... And Jerusalem was divided. Palestinians were screwed. The PLO was founded and the terrorism began. Http://news.Bbc.Co.Uk/2/hi/middle_east/7381315.Stm, http://www.Historylearningsite.Co.Uk/palestinian_liberation_order.Htm
Haroush says2014-07-30T05:46:16.4628273-05:00
I don't believe the Palestinians were screwed..
Haroush says2014-07-30T06:00:18.7996841-05:00
I'll tell you who is a threat in the Middle East right now no one has their eyes on,, Saudi Arabia
SweetTea says2014-07-30T09:05:04.9311656-05:00
If you think about it, both Israel & Palestine were screwed. Israel took their biggest hit, when the land was taken from them nearly 2,000 years ago. They waited centuries to get it back. Palestinians, meanwhile, made the land their home when it was under British control. After WWII, the land is divided among the stronger players and the Palestinians are left without a home. In this unending political tug-of-war, both sides have suffered losses of loved ones & property. Both have taken a screwing. Unfortunately, neither has learned from that and/or shows interest in co-existing peacefully.
SweetTea says2014-07-30T09:07:39.9897932-05:00
Haroush ... You are right about the Saudis. Many members of the royal family are known to financially support terrorism. It could become a huge safe-haven for terrorists, in the future -- assuming that hasn't already happened!

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