Is the confederate flag a positive or negative symbol?

Posted by: triangle.128k

Vote
300 Total Votes
1

Negative, it's anti-american and racist

177 votes
37 comments
2

Positive, it's a symbol of southern pride

75 votes
16 comments
3

Neutral

48 votes
19 comments
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(Maximum 900 words)
PetersSmith says2015-07-08T23:54:10.7102994-05:00
This is the Confederate flag: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/da/Flag_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America_(1861-1863).svg/1024px-Flag_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America_(1861-1863).svg.png Does that represent hate and racism? The one people keep complaining racism about is the Confederate battle flag.
triangle.128k says2015-07-08T23:55:16.1683190-05:00
Well they changed the flag. Even so, it still has links to the confederate states of america.
komododragon8 says2015-07-09T00:00:28.9035237-05:00
The confederate battle flag was also used by the dixiecrats, a segragationist party.
TyroneShelton says2015-07-09T00:09:38.8277657-05:00
PROS Bold way to display distorted, painstakingly cherry-picked heritage Stirring symbol of South’s never-surrender attitude 150 years after South’s surrender It’s already all the way up there on flagpole Simplest way to let others know your state ranks in bottom quintile of all quality-of-life metrics Eliminates uncomfortable feeling of having to say aloud what you think of African Americans Political correctness should not get in the way of being on the wrong side of history Without it, nation might forget racism ever happened in U.S. CONS Can’t fully grasp its incredible grandeur like you can on a bedspread or garage door May arouse negative feelings among blacks regarding 19th-century states’ rights, currency inflation, and sectarianism U.S. Flag already represents history of entrenched prejudice just as well Eliminates tedious raising, lowering, and triangular-folding tasks Has always been sad reminder of The Dukes Of Hazzard’s cancellation Could give accurate representation as to what kind of person is flying it There still plenty of other ways to make nation’s black population feel despised, derided, and inferior
TyroneShelton says2015-07-09T00:10:02.1755679-05:00
Source: The Onion
Black-Jesus says2015-07-09T00:59:28.9782825-05:00
What if we think it is anti/un-american but not inherently racist?
triangle.128k says2015-07-09T09:03:07.3505174-05:00
@Black Jesus Then vote negative.
RepublicanPennsylvania says2015-07-09T11:08:31.0559503-05:00
I think that the confederate flag doesn't MEAN slavery and oppression, its what was done under the flag. Like how the Nazi symbol doesn't signify killing jews it signifies hope but they slaughtered innocent people under the symbol.
TBR says2015-07-10T12:54:14.7359540-05:00
RepublicanPennsylvania says - Let me ask a simple question. What does "Awful" mean, or what does "Naughty" mean?
Varrack says2015-07-10T17:42:42.7165075-05:00
Glad this is on the front page now instead of the other one.
triangle.128k says2015-07-10T18:09:25.4436149-05:00
Yay, my poll got in the front page which NEVER updates!
Harper says2015-07-10T23:10:17.1810114-05:00
I always thought it was more of a regional symbol-- in that it represented the South as a unique region of the United States. The North/South difference was there since the beginning (Civil War was only a culmination of ongoing regional differences), so I figured that people have come to use it to represent Southern unity. I had no idea that it still is used as a racist symbol.
daem0n says2015-07-11T02:48:51.5266769-05:00
If the Confederate flag is anti-American, then the American flag is anti-British. If the Confederate flag is a symbol of racism, then the American flag is a symbol of throwing tea in the ocean.
tajshar2k says2015-07-11T07:18:52.7921801-05:00
But the American flag is the flag of this country.
TBR says2015-07-11T09:08:29.3525038-05:00
@daem0n - Good try, but a complete miss.
TBR says2015-07-11T11:12:39.9462466-05:00
@Gibby97 - No-one is telling individual red-neck jerks to stop flying the flag, only the government. Who are we to judge? We are the people the government represents.
dmussi12 says2015-07-11T12:46:07.3408320-05:00
I don't get why everyone is saying it's a "neutral" symbol; there's no such thing. Symbols have meaning, and that meaning can be objectively described as good or bad based on the most popular/strongest interpretation. It is a negative symbol BECAUSE people are offended by it, not the other way around. That's the thing about symbols - they get their meaning from people, but that meaning is just as valid as if it were an intrinsic property.
AFism says2015-07-11T13:02:03.9464376-05:00
Honestly I think both the American flag and the Confederate flag are racist.
jollyroger says2015-07-11T15:17:29.3666845-05:00
Perhaps someone should ask the confederate soldiers what they thought it meant. Both the American flag and the Confederate flag in the beginning meant very similar things. A rebellion against an oppressive government taking away certain freedoms and liberties. The average confederate soldier believed they were fighting to defend their home and really not so much a way of life. As is so often the case, the grunts did all the fighting while the rich stayed home, you wont find a poor man in the 1860,s south who owned a slave. Those that fought and died under this flag deserve as much recognition as any American soldier. As again, so often the case, the flag became a symbol of hatred and racism, not because of those that fought under it, but because a lousy few decided to use it as such a symbol in the years following the war. Be careful what you wish for.
TBR says2015-07-11T21:30:04.2854108-05:00
@jollyroger - perhaps we should ask the alive KKK members what it means to them?
58539672 says2015-07-11T22:14:21.3410479-05:00
@TBR You mean the 3000-5000 members of the KKK? The Klan once counted its members in the millions back in the 20s, but now the organization is all but dead.
Haroush says2015-07-12T12:50:33.7508342-05:00
If anyone is anti-American it is those people who cast judgments upon confederates and SOCS as being racist bigots. When in fact those people who believe this are racist bigots themselves.
Haroush says2015-07-12T12:51:49.9975011-05:00
Btw, the KKK doesn't represent what the confederate flag stands for.
tajshar2k says2015-07-12T12:53:12.1722820-05:00
Technically your also a bigot for calling guys bigots for calling Confederate supporters bigots.
Haroush says2015-07-12T12:55:14.2049336-05:00
May I ask, do you see all Irish people screaming to take down the American flag because of the oppression and much worse treatment they received than the blacks during the civil war era?
Haroush says2015-07-12T12:57:29.0260235-05:00
One more fact, secession was legal before Abraham made it illegal after the civil war ended.
imabench says2015-07-12T12:59:51.6855377-05:00
"do you see all Irish people screaming to take down the American flag because of the oppression and much worse treatment they received than the blacks during the civil war era?"........... Breaking news from the polls section of DDO, rumors of the weekly stupid coming back have returned after one user went on a spree of human stupidity early this morning
Haroush says2015-07-12T13:00:23.2447287-05:00
"Technically your also a bigot for calling guys bigots for calling Confederate supporters bigots." Now prove that I am with facts buddy. You are messing with someone who knows all too well about American History. So go ahead and hit me with your best shot.
imabench says2015-07-12T13:03:33.6427287-05:00
Haroush you couldnt the red side of a barn
Haroush says2015-07-12T13:03:46.7623287-05:00
@Imabench, You hate that I speak the truth. I know.
imabench says2015-07-12T13:04:45.7440258-05:00
Couldnt *hit* the red side of a barn, I dont know how I left that word out.
Haroush says2015-07-12T13:06:26.7715287-05:00
@Imabench, Honestly, you aren't worth my breath. So I will cease to recognize you even exist.
triangle.128k says2015-07-12T13:22:42.4783988-05:00
@Haroush I should use a Nazi flag to represent "German pride" or maybe a USSR flag to represent "Russian pride."
Haroush says2015-07-12T13:24:53.9543560-05:00
@ Triangle, The Nazi symbolizes something completely different from the confederate flag, but if you wish to fly it that is your right.
triangle.128k says2015-07-12T13:26:39.6033739-05:00
The confederate flag represents an attempt to break free from the Union, as well as relying on slavery for it's economy.
triangle.128k says2015-07-12T13:28:08.8148902-05:00
Blacks were actually treated better in Nazi Germany than the CSA. And why do you think that it's mainly white southerners using the confederate flag for southern pride?
triangle.128k says2015-07-12T13:30:35.9251204-05:00
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/06/maps-of-the-south-bad-place_n_4855191.html
imabench says2015-07-12T13:41:31.2399974-05:00
Triangle you cant use 'facts' against Haroush. He rejects facts that go against his beliefs the same way a body would reject a bad kidney transplant
Haroush says2015-07-12T13:41:48.0747213-05:00
What a hypocrite and the north still had plenty of slavery too. Not to mention blacks were not treated better by Nazi's than confederates. Also it is the winning side of history that gets to write it. Cherry pick history you want to keep and leave out things you don't want to keep. By the way, there is quite a few black southerners who fly the confederate flag because they know what it stands for. It's ironic you are arguing from the same side of the spectrum that said the flag killed those innocent people in that church, not the killer. Just like how liberals argue guns kill people. Though the truth is people kill people. I once put my gun on my front porch and told it to go kill someone. That evening I went to sleep and woke up next morning to see that my gun was still there. I thought to myself, well I thought guns kill people.
Haroush says2015-07-12T13:42:36.7682581-05:00
Abraham Lincoln said himself if he could defeat the south without ending slavery he would. He also said that he'd rather white people be the supreme race. Not to mention he was the one who sent African Americans over to Liberia only to get rid of them ( Hence is the reason Liberia has an American Flag on it). Furthermore, at the end of civil war General Lee requested that the Cherokee Indians have all their land returned back to them, but did that happen? No. Call it anti- American, but just know you are making yourself look like a fool.
imabench says2015-07-12T13:44:24.0459219-05:00
^ Funny how he says triangle is the one looking like a fool, yet HE was the one whoadmitted to leaving his gun out on the front porch to see if it would kill someone XD
Haroush says2015-07-12T13:44:38.0316426-05:00
Huffington Post is not a credible news agency honestly.
imabench says2015-07-12T13:45:24.5037447-05:00
^ And there's the thing I was talking about regarding him rejecting facts like a bad kidney
tajshar2k says2015-07-12T13:57:26.1631442-05:00
"Just like Andrew Jackson I will take your shot to the chest survive and return a one shot one kill." Somebody plays too much Call of Duty...
triangle.128k says2015-07-12T14:14:15.4838092-05:00
@imabench Yeah you're right, he's literally dodging facts and using logical fallacies to prove a point.
triangle.128k says2015-07-12T14:15:06.7669958-05:00
Haroush, what do guns have to do with hate symbols? You're not proving anything.
Berend says2015-07-12T17:36:29.5836362-05:00
You know why it represents racism and bigotry? Because it's used by people like that, like the KKK.
Berend says2015-07-12T17:48:55.6747995-05:00
@Haroush - "If anyone is anti-American it is those people who cast judgments upon confederates and SOCS as being racist bigots. When in fact those people who believe this are racist bigots themselves." Oh? Calling the people who divided the nations, broke from the nation, wanted to be their own nation? That makes us anti-American to judge those who choose to be free from the U.S.? That makes as much sense as calling people who judge Canada Anti-American. The flag represents the South (it wasn't the official flag, FYI) but still reps. A side that stands for what it is: Treason. Over something quite stupid, every single one of the Confederates, including Robert E. Lee, should have been shot in the head for committing Treason if at the worse. Those calling the south who wanted the right to slavery (their economy was failing anyways) are the racist and bigots, they started a war because they disliked the opposing view. That's literally just it. How is calling someone racist a racist? The people who normally uphold the flag are the racist, and that's a fact.
KidMedic says2015-07-12T18:03:44.1005178-05:00
I think it depends on perspective. The Rebel flag stands for freedom...Sort of. It never did stand for slavery...Directly. It stood for the right of states to govern themselves, as opposed to the federal government being the supreme authority, and having the ability to overrule the laws of the states. It also stands for a division of the country, which is, in and of itself, reason to prohibit its display on any government property. What other country would permit the display of a defeated violent revolution?
triangle.128k says2015-07-12T20:15:43.0847203-05:00
@Haroush "Abraham Lincoln said himself if he could defeat the south without ending slavery he would." That's not even the full quote.
triangle.128k says2015-07-12T20:17:14.7029330-05:00
"If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that." You missed out on a big chunk of that quote, nice try.
triangle.128k says2015-07-12T20:18:59.0710880-05:00
Also, nearly everybody at the time did believe whites were superior. Abraham Lincoln in fact believed in racial equality and giving equal rights after he saw how blacks fought for the Union.
TBR says2015-07-12T20:20:36.9901320-05:00
Well, the conversation has gone a long way from my last comment, but here it goes. YOU don't get to solely define what the symbol is. The KKK gets to say it represents them. Black people get to say what it means to them. Just because YOU want it to mean one thing over another is meaningless. You are NOT the only one with access to the flag, and an opinion on what it is.
tajshar2k says2015-07-12T21:15:06.4346863-05:00
@triangle And he tells me that I shouldn't mess with him because he knows too much about U.S history.
PetersSmith says2015-07-13T15:32:43.7515384-05:00
In 1864, the Confederate States began to abandon slavery. There are some indications that even without a war, the Confederacy would have ended slavery. Most historians believe that the Confederacy only started to abandon slavery once their defeat was imminent. If that were true then we are to believe that the CSA wanted independence more than they wanted to hold on to slavery. The CSA’s highest ranking generals, Robert E. Lee and Joseph E. Johnston were not slave holders and did not believe in slavery. And according to an 1860 census, only 31% of families owned slaves. 75% of families that owned slaves owned less than 10 and often worked beside them in the fields. The Confederate Constitution banned the overseas slave trade, and permitted Confederate states to abolish slavery within their borders if they wanted to do so. Slavery wasn’t abolished until 1868, 3 years after the war. Thus Kentucky, Missouri, Maryland and Delaware still had slaves.
PetersSmith says2015-07-13T15:42:24.1032562-05:00
"As between the loss of independence and the loss of slavery, we assume that every patriot will freely give up the latter — give up the negro slave rather than be a slave himself"- Confederate Major General Patrick Cleburne
jollyroger says2015-07-13T17:41:30.6123018-05:00
From PBS.Org.... Total number of slaves brought over to the Americas between 1525 and 1866. 12.5 Million Of that number, total number of slaves brought to North America.... 388,000 Results from the 1860 census report United States Population 31.1 Million Total number of slaves in the United States... 3.9 Million Total number of slave owners 394,000 At this point, these are probably the most accurate of the numbers that can be found. This gives us 10 slaves per person of those that owned slaves. The United States Banned the importation of slaves in 1808. The best estimate I can find for slaves murdered or died due to bad living conditions in North America between 1525 and 1866.... 1.8 Million, A number which is hotly contested. One count was at 100 Million, which is easy to see is impossible from the census. From the civilwar.Org..... Total number of casualties during the civil war.... 620,000 killed 400,000 wounded 476,000 captured / missing Of this number how many were Black? 40,000 of which 30,000 died of infection or disease
TBR says2015-07-13T17:51:39.3211015-05:00
Do you have a point jollyroger?
Haroush says2015-07-13T18:10:46.9181343-05:00
I do know what I am talking and I was right on everything I said about this subject. It's just people have a desire to see my character defamed on here.
jollyroger says2015-07-13T18:13:18.4400550-05:00
Nah, just like facts and figures. Kind of puts things in perspective. Thought it interesting that the largest part of the slave trade was in central and South America. I do remember hearing that many plantation owners moved to south America after the war. Also in interest of reparations it seems that nearly as many died during the war then all of the slaves that were killed in the 350 years that slavery took place in North America. BTW, sorry this site reformatted my e-mail that I copied this from. Been talking to others about it ya know... Many points are in the numbers...
Haroush says2015-07-13T18:15:46.0601366-05:00
Majority of what I said was largely ignored and again ignored by the same people as usual simply because they don't like me. Now if anything is a good example of hate and bigotry, it would be the actions taken by triangle, Imabench, tajshar2k, and TBR. There is others, but just because of the facts I report these people have a desire to see my character defamed.
jollyroger says2015-07-13T18:17:56.6246046-05:00
Hay, you go Haroush, Just ignore those that resort to that type of flaming, We can all read it for ourselves...
Haroush says2015-07-13T18:25:04.6121749-05:00
If anything is an example of hate and bigotry, it is those actions taken by tajshar2k, triangle, Imabench, and TBR to defame my character simply because of facts that I put out there. It is quite obvious their agenda here isn't to discuss this matter but to simply reject people who happen to disagree with their decision on this poll.
Haroush says2015-07-13T18:33:50.3172715-05:00
Hmmm.. Seems my internet lagged. Oh well. And thanks jollyroger. It's funny too that our economy even today relies largely off of slavery.
TBR says2015-07-13T18:45:53.3450626-05:00
What is your issue now Haroush?
TBR says2015-07-13T18:56:34.2189092-05:00
@jollyroger - I don't see anything odd in any of the stats you posted.
tajshar2k says2015-07-13T19:24:15.1644660-05:00
The only fact I will accept is one given with sources. You already misquoted Abe once by not completing the quote, I don't really have a good reason to take your word.
imabench says2015-07-13T19:53:38.8403407-05:00
"It's funny too that our economy even today relies largely off of slavery." Alright we have a new top candidate for dumbest comment in the thread
triangle.128k says2015-07-13T20:02:52.2779930-05:00
Our economy relies on slavery? I think you've gone mad Haroush.
TBR says2015-07-13T20:10:51.0233241-05:00
Shush everyone. Haroush laying some facts on us all. Let's give it a go.
Haroush says2015-07-13T20:35:51.6349789-05:00
I guess sweat shops don't exist and China, India, and other countries don't still practice slavery today? Yeah okay sure.
Haroush says2015-07-13T20:45:47.9772669-05:00
Taj, Someone doesn't have to provide sources in order for things to be true. For example, If I tell you the sky is blue, you can go outside and see the sky is blue. Furthermore, I didn't misquote once so ever, that was one sentence by it's self in a quote. Either way you look at it, looking at all of his quotes ( Abraham Lincoln) it is obvious he wasn't for blacks. I wonder why Louis Farakhan said," I don’t know what the hell the fight is about over the Confederate flag. We need to put the American flag down. Because we’ve caught as much hell under that as the Confederate flag,” comments that were meant with cheers and applause. He added, “Who are we fighting today? It’s the people that carry the American flag.”
Haroush says2015-07-13T20:49:11.8871746-05:00
And like I said before what about the Irish slaves.
triangle.128k says2015-07-13T20:49:43.9613914-05:00
Haroush, you're "strategic quoting" by quoting one part of what Lincoln said and leaving out a huge chunk.
Haroush says2015-07-13T20:53:55.5606328-05:00
Furthermore, how f***ing inconsiderate of people it is to just forget about all the slavery that has happened in this world but yet it is as if blacks were the only ones to be slaves.. Give me a f***ing break.
TBR says2015-07-13T20:56:38.3019629-05:00
Haroush - The sky is not blue.
Haroush says2015-07-13T21:44:39.4379408-05:00
TBR must be 12
TBR says2015-07-13T21:58:22.8238461-05:00
@Haroush - You have been so incensed at every turn, perhaps you want to be on a more vertical site. There are plenty of places where your brand of... Thought... Is well received and not questioned. This is an environment where statements will be challenged. And... You do know that the sky is not blue, right?
Haroush says2015-07-13T22:00:16.3474885-05:00
Again you must be 12
Haroush says2015-07-13T22:01:40.8935150-05:00
If you aren't then you must be retarded.
TBR says2015-07-13T22:03:05.2095374-05:00
@Haroush - So, this twelve year old is upsetting you this much?
Haroush says2015-07-13T22:12:46.1239154-05:00
Oh, yeah the twelve year old is upsetting me so much.. Lol, must be retarded. Your parents had nice long rides on the short bus, huh?
TyroneShelton says2015-07-13T22:37:28.3958410-05:00
Cmon, this is like putting a Nazi flag outside the capital because of the Nazi's advocacy for animal rights and anti-smoking
Haroush says2015-07-13T22:39:04.2374848-05:00
I disagree Tyrone.
TyroneShelton says2015-07-13T22:41:41.8165164-05:00
And thats not like saying the South rebelled for states' rights? Its completely ignoring the huge human rights issue that the South stood for.
tajshar2k says2015-07-14T08:40:45.2603192-05:00
So, if I claim I am a giraffe, that would mean its true?
neoryan1 says2015-07-14T09:03:51.2790736-05:00
Really it's how you see it. Sure you could be someone who's flying it solely because of your heritage or whatever, but common sense should tell you it will be taken offensively.
TBR says2015-07-14T14:11:30.7834218-05:00
The flag supporters seem to blithely ignore that a great number of people know exactly what it means TO THEM, and its not good. If you think it means "pride" there is another guy that gets a completely different read. His read is just as valid as yours.
neoryan1 says2015-07-15T09:46:13.3665874-05:00
@TBR Couldn't have said it better myself
Haroush says2015-07-15T11:51:07.6656870-05:00
Either way it's hypocrisy. Again, people keep ignoring the fact I bring up that slavery is still wide spread today and the fact many other people other than blacks have been slaves too. Which this whole argument from the negative side is about slavery.
Haroush says2015-07-15T11:52:25.3260526-05:00
I guess people think industrialization has helped humanity out, huh?
TBR says2015-07-15T11:58:37.2264870-05:00
@Haroush - You keep driving right past the part where you agree that it represents slavery (as well as other oppression). Your argument hinges on "well, there are OTHER slaves too". OK. Yes there are. That does NOT negate the argument that THIS symbol has a negative association. Further I would point out, the flag has MORE history associated with racism after its initial use in the civil war. It has been a banner for oppressive groups for much longer than it was used by the failed confederacy.
Haroush says2015-07-15T12:03:19.4004314-05:00
What is was used for after the civil war doesn't represent what it stands for.. The KKK has no part in the confederate flag. And here is where you are a hypocrite. The American flag represents hate and slavery too. Look at how this country started. Even some of my ancestors were slaves. So get out of here with that argument. Abraham Lincoln was a racist himself. Are you going to take down the Lincoln Memorial because he is a racist. What about Harry Truman? Come on now.. This is why liberals are hypocrites.
Haroush says2015-07-15T12:04:35.7955902-05:00
So has industrialization helped out humanity? Has it done more good or bad?
Haroush says2015-07-15T12:05:34.9660763-05:00
What about the Native Americans and how they were treated.. Hypocrites.
TBR says2015-07-15T12:12:06.1713846-05:00
OK. Lets work through this a bit. "What is was used for after the civil war doesn't represent what it stands for..". That is now how it works. You don't get to be the arbitrator of all things flag related. The KKK has embraced this symbol, and since they have it is reasonable for those the message is pointed at to take it as presented. "The KKK has no part in the confederate flag.". Really? I am watching a documentary right now about the KKK. Not 2 min of screen time go past without the flag on-screen. "And here is where you are a hypocrite. The American flag represents hate and slavery too." OK. What of it? So, again, you admit that the Confederate flag represents hate in this statement, right? " Look at how this country started. Even some of my ancestors were slaves. So get out of here with that argument." - Why? Why would it? You have brought nothing to the table but agreeing that the flag is a negative symbol too. Abraham Lincoln was a racist himself. Are you going to take down the Lincoln Memorial because he is a racist. What about Harry Truman? Come on now.. This is why liberals are hypocrites." We can talk about Lincoln all you like, that still says little about why the battle flag is NOT a "negative symbol".
Haroush says2015-07-15T12:33:09.3407342-05:00
This argument is worthless with you. You are blatantly ignorant of your own hypocrisy. Not only this you fail to realize there are less kkk members than there are people who carry the flag for non racial reasons. Lastly, by your standard the American flag should be taken down too. See just like the American flag has its "bad" history to so does the confederate flag. This being said if you are going to take down confederate flags and disrespect dead confederate soldiers by digging up their graves then you must do the same to the American flag and those who stood underneath of it by moral obligation.
Haroush says2015-07-15T12:35:55.6017449-05:00
Furthermore, you can't run away from arguments you already made.
TBR says2015-07-15T12:52:52.0328906-05:00
OK. Lets work through this one. "This argument is worthless with you. You are blatantly ignorant of your own hypocrisy. Not only this you fail to realize there are less kkk members than there are people who carry the flag for non racial reasons." - Not at all. That does NOT make the negative symbol positive, again, only concedes that the negative exists, right? "Lastly, by your standard the American flag should be taken down too. See just like the American flag has its "bad" history to so does the confederate flag." - If, say an American Indian (as you mentioned above) looks to the flag with discuss, I sure understand that. I am not ignoring his opinion, it is very valid to him. "This being said if you are going to take down confederate flags and disrespect dead confederate soldiers by digging up their graves then you must do the same to the American flag and those who stood underneath of it by moral obligation." - Why do you insist in proving over-and-over that the Confederate flag IS a negative symbol by arguing that OTHER symbols a negative too? You want to argue, but not debate. You have not addressed anyone's questions or comments directly.. Ever as best as I know.
tajshar2k says2015-07-15T19:50:20.4650358-05:00
The Confederate flag is racist to those who believe it is. Their thinking is justified. Southerners on the other hand, believe it stands for Southern pride. Their thinking is also justified. The problem is that the majority agree it doesn't represent anything good.
Haroush says2015-07-15T21:10:01.4787347-05:00
It sounds to me Taj that you are declaring this a draw? If so, I would say yes because the more people say this flag is negative and the more people oppress a certain peoples' 1st amendment rights, the more divided this society will become as those who disagree like me will speak up where only one side of the story is being told.
58539672 says2015-07-15T21:22:47.1591428-05:00
This poll gas gone on longer than I expected it to. All the other confederate flag ones died off fairly quickly.
komododragon8 says2015-07-15T23:05:18.6500891-05:00
I think thats because its stuck on the front page.
Midnight1131 says2015-07-16T08:57:36.3622156-05:00
So if you support flying this on gov't buildings, I guess you have no problem with Germany still flying the Nazi flag on theirs?
triangle.128k says2015-07-16T09:06:46.2820754-05:00
@Midnight1131 That's what i've been trying to say, these people that see it as a symbol of southern pride just don't get it. They act as if the Nazi flag was completely different.
TBR says2015-07-16T09:51:05.3546262-05:00
"It sounds to me Taj that you are declaring this a draw? If so, I would say yes because the more people say this flag is negative and the more people oppress a certain peoples' 1st amendment rights" - There is NO 1st amendment right involved here. There is NO law on the books or proposed keeping YOU, the individual, from having this flag. You may feel free to be a complete ass about it, spout off about it, or take a dump on it. No freedom of speech issue. Its not a "draw", as seen on this poll, and nationally, the flag is overwhelmingly seen as a negative symbol.
TBR says2015-07-16T09:55:27.7840767-05:00
@triangle.128k - As for the, the better analogy to me is, did all the Nazis wearing the swastika think they were representing Budda? Hinduism, Jainism? When I watch Shindlers List, should I assume that "well, he was just saying 'luck' and 'good will'?
tajshar2k says2015-07-16T10:28:07.7904226-05:00
No, its not a draw, its an opinion. Most agree that its racist, but some Southerner agree that it represents Southern pride. Nobody is preventing these moron's from displaying it, but most people will agree that its a stupid flag to hoist. Haroush seems to think that everybody who is against are bigots. With his logic, everybody is a bigot.
TBR says2015-07-16T10:34:21.7404733-05:00
@tajshar2k - I took the time to attempt to address Haroush "points". He ignores them all. What I have been saying since post one is, like you have said, it IS opinion. The opinion of those that see it as a negative symbol are based on their experiences, and any attempt to argue some civil war history, or if Lincoln said this or that makes NO difference in how the battle flag is received by the majority of people (and the GREAT majority of blacks). Completely ignoring what they say is... Well its Haroush now, isn't it.
Varrack says2015-07-16T10:50:01.2626932-05:00
I've never understood this Southern pride thing. The South is part of the Union, so shouldn't displaying the American flag be their demonstration of pride? Why display a flag of a divisive and once racist nation that was ultimately defeated, not to mention nonexistent for the last 150 years? It really makes no sense.
TBR says2015-07-16T10:56:31.1624565-05:00
@Varrack - The always (semi-)sane voice of the conservative. No bugs for you today.
HeraldSarah says2015-07-16T14:08:59.8286593-05:00
Not only I'd this flag symbolize racism, it also divides the United Statesinto two parts. I see both of these consequences as negative.
tajshar2k says2015-07-16T14:23:05.9008468-05:00
@Varrack Because most Southerners are traitors to the motherland, and are Anti-American.
TyroneShelton says2015-07-16T14:24:48.6885342-05:00
It shows the Souths "never surrender" attitude 150 years after their surrender. North>South
triangle.128k says2015-07-16T14:25:15.1330429-05:00
Yeah, I don't see people from New England talking about "New England pride"
tajshar2k says2015-07-16T14:26:37.9006352-05:00
There not real Americans, they literally go against half the values this country was built on.
triangle.128k says2015-07-16T14:26:41.8963122-05:00
@TyroneShelton True, as statistics show that the Northeast is more developed, richer has lower crime rates, better education and all compared to the south.
triangle.128k says2015-07-16T14:30:04.7092194-05:00
@tajshar2k I'd agree with that to some extent, more southerners see the USA as being a nation founded on Christian values and a "Christian nation." Yet they blame "libtards" for being unconstitutional.
triangle.128k says2015-07-16T14:30:21.4500548-05:00
As one example that is,
Varrack says2015-07-16T14:36:50.3399619-05:00
The South is kind of plagued. I like to hypothesize that the reason the quality of living is worse there is because of the Confederacy's secession and war which the South never fully recovered from.
TBR says2015-07-16T16:20:37.0701952-05:00
But Varrack, I ask if that recovery is hampered by their own unwillingness. They seem to reject so much.
Berend says2015-07-16T17:20:53.3058174-05:00
@Haroush No one ignored you, rather dismisses what you say, because we don't like you. It's because you respond ignorantly and you so clearly have a victim complex. What you say is nonsensical and you miss everyone's point. Stop acting like you are this victim that everyone hates. We don't hate you. Disagreeing and finding your knee jerk reactions, or whatever it maybe, is not the same as hating you.
Haroush says2015-07-16T17:46:23.9449631-05:00
It's obvious certain people just like being ignorant to the facts I put out there that aren't opinions. It's obvious certain people feel comfortable to ignore what I say because they out number me. I'm not the one being ignorant you all are. Just because there is a majority, it doesn't mean the majority is right or their OPINION is TRUE. @ Tyrone, You are damn right we don't surrender. Especially when people want to see things as fact because of the majorities' OPINION on here.
triangle.128k says2015-07-16T18:11:16.9937069-05:00
Oh shoot, Haroush is about to lay some "facts" on us and use his superior thinking.
triangle.128k says2015-07-16T18:14:21.3692572-05:00
If you're going to defend the confederate flag, then defend the CSA. Explain their racism and ect. And explain why the south was right to attempt to rebel from the Union.
Haroush says2015-07-16T18:14:47.4985517-05:00
Oh shoot! I forgot Triangle needs to grow up!
Berend says2015-07-16T18:17:24.9871897-05:00
@Haroush , no, and you are not claiming people liek me are ignorant while strawmanning us? That just shows how weak your position is. No one claimed we are right on the sole basis of "there is more". No one has argued from popularity. You, however, are starting more and more to argue from victimization. You say things, deem themas facts, deny what others say while fallacy up the place. Not that you are the only one, before you reply that others are too, but you need to stop with your "I am the victim" card. It's pathetic. === I have read most of what you said, and non of the thing supporting your side vs the majority is proven via facts. You are deluded by your own confirmation bias. People ignore your facts? And not once have you done it to others?====
Berend says2015-07-16T18:18:31.4849087-05:00
@Haroush - ==="It's obvious certain people feel comfortable to ignore what I say because they out number me."==== No, and you are playing the victim card while starwmanning the reason people deny your "facts".
Haroush says2015-07-16T18:19:43.8786671-05:00
I am not going to explain everything I already explained to you or anyone who blatantly rejects what the opposition says simply because they have reached a verdict in their mind that will never change no matter what is said or presented.
Berend says2015-07-16T18:21:18.4049087-05:00
@ Haroush - ="I'm not the one being ignorant you all are. Just because there is a majority, it doesn't mean the majority is right or their OPINION is TRUE."= Not one single person has implied that. You have such a weak stance that you are turning from the points and going on to tell us that we are ignoring you on the basis of majority. No one's argued from popularity. =="@Tyrone, You are damn right we don't surrender. Especially when people want to see things as fact because of the majorities' OPINION on here.""== "They don;'t agree with what I said, therefor they must deny facts and there for we need to just keep being closed minded by standing by our notion vs simply having intellectual discussions." < --- Basis of what you said.
Haroush says2015-07-16T18:23:06.0293087-05:00
@Berend, Do you think I am going to respond to your foolish ranting? If you did... The answer is no.
Berend says2015-07-16T18:23:41.8712635-05:00
@ Haroush "I am not going to explain everything I already explained to you or anyone who blatantly rejects what the opposition says simply because they have reached a verdict in their mind that will never change no matter what is said or presented." That's literally what you are freaking doing. Lol. It's like you have no self-awareness. No one asked you to reiterate what you said. I already said I read most of what you said. Disagreeing with your clauses doesn't mean I am rejecting facts, it's simply not believing everything you say, just as you should not automatically side with us on the basis of one post. Your issue is that you can't handle others differing in your opinion and therefor try to save face with knee jerk reaction responses to some how defend why you are right and everyone else is wrong, even is with a victim card to boot.
TBR says2015-07-16T18:24:34.2941087-05:00
OK try to calmly give one of these Facts. Not about how others are racist, about... You know subject at hand.
tajshar2k says2015-07-16T18:28:06.7185507-05:00
"Just because there is a majority, it doesn't mean the majority is right or their OPINION is TRUE" So, your saying that your opinion is true? Do you know the definition of opinion? Its not true or false. Racism and Slavery generally aren't socially acceptable in the Western world anymore, so I do not see how this would mean our opinions aren't true.
Berend says2015-07-16T18:28:37.4813931-05:00
@Haroush "Do you think I am going to respond to your foolish ranting? If you did... The answer is no." You just replied. And you just proved my point. I made fairly valid responses to your little banter yet you claim my post was foolish while failing to see your own foolishness in your post.
Haroush says2015-07-16T18:28:42.3472593-05:00
@Berend, You are day late and a dollar short. And it is relevant you have an obsession with me. I understand you are bisexual but I don't like dudes. Go away you immoral peasant.
Haroush says2015-07-16T18:31:58.8520397-05:00
Uh oh! Here comes the internet gang bangers! I am so scared Dx... What a joke.
TBR says2015-07-16T18:33:19.8846201-05:00
Every argument that you have made has devolved into name calling BY YOU. What a joke you are.
Haroush says2015-07-16T18:34:44.8250328-05:00
Now here comes the common liberal blame game... Oh how surprising...
TBR says2015-07-16T18:38:06.9937222-05:00
I took the time to address everyone of your points you haven't taken the time to answer one of my questions. As has been noted you only want pity. If your ideas can't stand on their own don't blame us.
tajshar2k says2015-07-16T18:38:34.1724451-05:00
There is tangible proof you resorted to name calling.
Haroush says2015-07-16T18:39:03.5816169-05:00
Did I hear someone?
Haroush says2015-07-16T18:39:52.5085521-05:00
(Back to what I was doing before.)
TBR says2015-07-16T18:42:51.8549536-05:00
Please try free republic.Com. They will like what you are spewing, And ask for no proof In return. This just doesn't Seem to be your cup of tea.
Haroush says2015-07-16T18:43:49.1735052-05:00
(Yawns)
tajshar2k says2015-07-16T18:43:55.1806208-05:00
Also, explain how you "heard" when there is was no voice involved. Unless you're on crack.
Haroush says2015-07-16T18:45:35.3577477-05:00
(Hmmm.. I think I am going to get some popcorn.)
tajshar2k says2015-07-16T18:46:11.3922419-05:00
K
TBR says2015-07-16T18:50:38.8887497-05:00
Tajshar2k - well since he's abdicated, I think The only polite thing to do is accept his defeate.
tajshar2k says2015-07-16T18:51:38.6001449-05:00
Ya, we must have made him tired. He went for a popcorn break.
Haroush says2015-07-16T18:56:42.0094014-05:00
(Watching Harry Truman make racist remarks in public on the history channel.)
tajshar2k says2015-07-16T18:57:48.1061777-05:00
"Just like Andrew Jackson I will take your shot to the chest survive and return a one shot one kill." I just like to mention 2 things. 1: I wouldn't let you survive. I'm already trained with guns, and I would make sure the threat is no longer a threat with. 2: How would you purposely make the bullet target your chest? What if I shoot you in the head?
Black-Jesus says2015-07-16T18:59:16.1208135-05:00
Hey, hey, guys, what's with all the hostility; can't we all just get along? Peace, zen, Kumbaya
tajshar2k says2015-07-16T18:59:58.1529578-05:00
Not possible with racist conservatives in the country.
Black-Jesus says2015-07-16T19:01:55.1224083-05:00
Hey, I'm black and I've managed. Me and white supremacists still think one another inferior, but we are still peaceful about it
Haroush says2015-07-16T19:11:45.2793621-05:00
(Ahh, I can't believe JFK put MArtin Luther King Jr. On the FBI's watch list.. What a typical liberal. Imagine that! It's coming on next on the history channel!)
Haroush says2015-07-16T19:16:20.0215703-05:00
( Flips over to MSNBC. Oh, wow! They are actually admitting that their fellow democrats need to stop being so petty about political issues. That is a new one on me.)
TBR says2015-07-16T19:53:29.1263712-05:00
Haroush - You can't seem to get that this is not about how racist JFK might have been, or Lincoln. That MAKES NO DIFFERENCE. If you were capable of PROVING that, you still have NOT addressed the issue. Do you not get that?
tajshar2k says2015-07-16T19:54:21.7827786-05:00
TBR: I already added him to the troll list.
triangle.128k says2015-07-16T19:56:12.5157277-05:00
Who else is on there?
TBR says2015-07-16T19:59:03.9571858-05:00
I would call him a troll, but he WANTS to be taken seriously. The guy is such a lightweight.
tajshar2k says2015-07-16T20:03:34.5670324-05:00
Heil, copper top, Uther_Penguin, RXR, Reece, Genesis, vi_spex. I had a few more, but I can't remember.
tajshar2k says2015-07-16T20:03:50.4647382-05:00
Oh and shalal12.
triangle.128k says2015-07-16T20:05:17.6077121-05:00
You should add XLAV to the list.
tajshar2k says2015-07-16T20:06:17.6361273-05:00
I'll add her to the probation list for now. If she tries to stir up more chaos, then I'll probably add her.
triangle.128k says2015-07-16T20:06:40.3534066-05:00
Wow, you added Uther....
triangle.128k says2015-07-16T20:07:07.7742059-05:00
....Penguin on the list? (Sorry, i couldn't say it in one sentence due to the stupid filters)
tajshar2k says2015-07-16T20:07:28.1889269-05:00
Yup, my reasons are more than justified.
Haroush says2015-07-16T20:07:33.6232402-05:00
(...ZzzzZzzz.. Snoring.. Coughs, suddenly wakes up to MSNBC airing a television show about bugchasing being on the rise in the gay community. Changes channel.)
triangle.128k says2015-07-16T20:08:34.3265994-05:00
@tajshar2k But Uther trolls for comedical purposes, people like genesis come to disrupt the site.
tajshar2k says2015-07-16T20:09:36.2657910-05:00
He's still a troll. (You said it yourself)
mystery_man43 says2015-07-16T20:09:59.7306424-05:00
Does anyone find it strange that the KKK is rallying FOR the confederate flag?
Haroush says2015-07-16T20:11:40.2377760-05:00
(Reverse psychology only works on certain people.. Hmmm.. Interesting.)
triangle.128k says2015-07-16T20:11:54.1698440-05:00
@mystery_man43 Does anybody find it strange that you bigot against gay marriage, using the bible as an excuse and then say you don't dislike gays?
tajshar2k says2015-07-16T20:12:58.3252783-05:00
Some people just are against gay marriage, but support giving civil rights to gays.
TBR says2015-07-16T20:13:56.8948051-05:00
Funny, lot of that list are people I LOVE... Heil - Well, he is just Heil. I see no possible way to block him anyway. What you going to do, block Heli*? RXR, jerk, but have seen little of him recently. Uther_Penguin - Benign. Genesis - Well, jerk but fun jerk. Don't know shalal12 or XLAV. NOW, vi_spex? You MUST be joking. Joking is true. True is 1 (yes). My dog licked my face, I know that to be true, 1=yes. I like VI_Spex. Just logic.
tajshar2k says2015-07-16T20:14:15.0867551-05:00
Imagine if somebody said, African Americans should have the same rights as Whites, but they shouldn't be given citizenship. Frankly, thats how I feel about civil unions.
triangle.128k says2015-07-16T20:15:07.1811573-05:00
Does anybody find it strange how your brain is failing to function correctly?
tajshar2k says2015-07-16T20:15:32.6584474-05:00
For starters, Shalal12 said Iran gives more rights to gays than America does...
tajshar2k says2015-07-16T20:16:54.8332283-05:00
Ok, im gonna stop calling out users. Especially when they aren't here to defend themselves.
triangle.128k says2015-07-16T20:17:02.7067806-05:00
@tajshar2k I know that many people opposed to marriage still support rights and all. I was just giving one example of what mystery_man does, he's a religious zealot (possibly a troll) that uses the stupidest reasoning ever..
mystery_man43 says2015-07-16T20:17:11.0539412-05:00
@triangle.128k It's hard to take a libertarian communist seriously, just saying.
triangle.128k says2015-07-16T20:18:02.7017378-05:00
@mystery_man I'm not a communist, my party selected was satire against the CCP for claiming they're "communist."
TBR says2015-07-16T20:19:23.9405007-05:00
@tajshar2k - Agreed. Just saying VI_spek is some extraordinary stuff. I have been plenty of places on the web, and never meet some quite like him.
tajshar2k says2015-07-16T20:20:05.9397602-05:00
He literally gives free ELO away just sayin...
Varrack says2015-07-16T20:20:39.1989602-05:00
Haroush, maybe you should actually make some points instead of throwing unwarranted ad hominems at both triangle and TBR and all the while name-calling people with different views from yourself.
Haroush says2015-07-16T20:21:06.3429602-05:00
(Sighs.. This is boring. Let's see what's on the news... Obama makes a nuke deal with Iran without including our POWs over there... Typical liberal...)
TBR says2015-07-16T20:21:27.9957602-05:00
I swear there is a cohesive argument in there somewhere. If he would take his meds for a week straight, he may beat the HELL out of someone.
TBR says2015-07-16T20:25:12.6140089-05:00
Man or woman, straight or gay, penis are fun.
mystery_man43 says2015-07-16T20:33:58.8155596-05:00
@triangle.128k You automatically accuse everyone, who disagrees with you, as being a troll. Seems legit. How about accusing Bush of being a troll, I'm sure that will make everyone believe you. Do us a favor and tell the world that Hillary is a troll. At least that would be doing something productive.
triangle.128k says2015-07-16T20:42:23.9449809-05:00
@mystery_man43 My bad, you're not a troll. You're just a religious zealot.
Haroush says2015-07-16T20:44:35.6394431-05:00
Ohhhhh! Look at that comeback! Man...That was one heck of a comeback.. Special Ed couldn't of thought up that one! Wow!
Midnight1131 says2015-07-16T20:46:17.8355842-05:00
There should be a special place in the DDO hall of fame from Vi_Spex, he has contributed so much to this site.
triangle.128k says2015-07-16T20:46:40.7695989-05:00
You're hilarious, you're resorting to insults because of all the nonsense you stated earlier.
TBR says2015-07-16T20:49:13.0871076-05:00
@Midnight1131 - Right? The guy is either better at staying in character than Stephen Cobert, or IS just that nuts. Either way, I want to have a beer with that guy.
Haroush says2015-07-16T20:54:03.4969092-05:00
Aww... Don't cry little boy, get glad, don't get mad. But what does it matter? Some people rather be pissed off then be pissed on.
Haroush says2015-07-16T20:57:52.0981069-05:00
A beer with who?
TBR says2015-07-16T20:58:13.8599674-05:00
Forget the beer. There is some perfict tequila/mescaline ballance that guy has that makes it all just so right. During that perfect high, unknown is known, and truth is a dog wagging his tail.
Haroush says2015-07-16T21:00:51.0865577-05:00
Who could you possibly not wanna have a beer with.. As long as there is alcohol anyone can be hilarious.. Just watch them fall! :D
Haroush says2015-07-16T21:05:37.1334610-05:00
Then again that isn't good enough.. Ah.. (Yawns again)
Oreo222 says2015-07-16T21:11:04.2840374-05:00
To those that say it's a symbol of Southern pride: does that "pride" include committing the largest mass treason this country has ever seen? Or how the South enslaved people just because of their skin color? Or the fact that Southern schools practically brainwash you into thinking that such a symbol of hate and treason is something to be proud of? Some of you also claim the war was started because of "State's Rights." That's a load of crap. The South hated black people and wanted to continue to hate and oppress black people. Please be real with yourselves. Some say that symbols don't kill people, people kill people. True, though that doesn't mean you should proudly display something associated with the deaths of thousands because your ancestors wanted to enslave another human being. Please, at least have some decency. The Confederate Flag belongs in a museum, where it should be remembered as the banner of a horrible rebellion. Being proud of that flag is saying that you're proud of racism, slavery, oppression, and treason.
Haroush says2015-07-16T21:14:44.2429112-05:00
@Oreo, You are probably saying that because you are the typical black person.. Geez.
Berend says2015-07-16T22:07:31.7904223-05:00
I feel this racist, bigoted, moronic and sophomoric kid should be reported. Yes, I'm bisexual, but that doesn't mean I'm into you. I'm more intrigued by your lack of intellect. You are, by no means, my type. I'm a sapiosexual. You clearly do not match that criteria.
Oreo222 says2015-07-16T22:12:17.5996014-05:00
@Haroush I'm not black. I'm white. And when you say "typical black person," what do you mean by that?
TyroneShelton says2015-07-16T22:14:18.7109856-05:00
Hah, the South doesnt surrender. Thats not what Lee said at Appomattox
TBR says2015-07-16T22:20:26.3820123-05:00
Berend - You are going to blow his little mind. To him sex is a sacred thing between a man and a Taiwanese hooker. That's the way straight God said in JohnDoesTheOrient 3:15. Wait.. Is that right, or did I watch that on Cinemax ON 3-15.
Berend says2015-07-16T22:22:32.9604123-05:00
Haha Well I'm making a debate to challenge him on it being a positive symbol for the U.S. If I'm going after him, I might as well challenger him with no fist held back by short, unorganized Opinion post.
tajshar2k says2015-07-17T08:15:31.2730438-05:00
Haroush is just surprised that not everyone is racist like he is. It's just a phase.
triangle.128k says2015-07-17T09:14:14.0625689-05:00
@tajshar2k What's funny is that now Haroush is resorting to immature insults.
mystery_man43 says2015-07-17T10:29:44.3536407-05:00
@Haroush Racism isn't cool.
Haroush says2015-07-17T10:34:18.6027168-05:00
How do you know I am a racist?
tajshar2k says2015-07-17T10:41:40.4726322-05:00
God told me.
Haroush says2015-07-17T10:44:29.2678782-05:00
Personal perception is not truth. Nor is majority perception. Historical documents hold truth. Though even historical documents can be biased because it was a human being who wrote them that is easily swayed by emotion (at least written documents). The only documents that should be recognized in history are those documents that contain pictures, places, and things that don't display emotion. Emotional bias is a commonly used form of persuasion in today's society to make someone believe a certain idea.
Haroush says2015-07-17T10:53:10.4370964-05:00
Personal exploitation can be used in an attempt to demean someone's character in order to create an irrational response.
mystery_man43 says2015-07-17T10:57:36.7707024-05:00
@Haroush "You are probably saying that because you are the typical black person.. Geez." This is what you said. Tell me that isn't racist.
tajshar2k says2015-07-17T10:58:15.5211950-05:00
K thanks for your Philosophy lesson. I learned a lot from your course.
Haroush says2015-07-17T11:01:36.4075458-05:00
Go ahead and explain to me how that is racist? There is typical white people, black people, Mexicans, Jews, Saudis, Muslims, and others... So please go ahead and explain to me how what I said is racist. Stereotypical people do exist, correct?
mystery_man43 says2015-07-17T11:08:57.3750146-05:00
@Haroush That would be considered racial profiling, which is in fact considered racist. By definition profiling is "the practice of categorizing people and predicting their behaviour according to particular characteristics such as race or age" - Dictionary.Com
Haroush says2015-07-17T11:10:34.7970146-05:00
Oh and since people keep mentioning the Nazi flag on here.. I would like for you all to know the Nazi flag didn't even originate with the Nazi's. The Swastika stems from ancient religions and philosophies that have nothing to do with the Nazis. Just like the Confederate flag has nothing to do with the KKK.
mystery_man43 says2015-07-17T11:13:04.3277108-05:00
@Haroush It's not about where or how the flag, symbol, or whatever originated from. It's about what the flag or symbol is meant to represent.
TBR says2015-07-17T11:15:47.4363140-05:00
Haroush - If you bothered to read, you would see that I was making that very point. The Swastika most assuredly represented the Nazis, even though the symbol was (and is) used much longer by Hindus, Buddhist and the Janis religion. It is not only reasonable for people to associate the Swastika with negative events, it is the most common interpretation of the symbol, aside from its religious history. The same can be said of the battle flag in this question. It is as negative as the Swastika for many many Americans.
Haroush says2015-07-17T11:31:18.6656188-05:00
So if you see a white man with a swastika you are automatically going to assume they believe in Nazism? And the Swastika is mainly used for religious purposes that have nothing to do with Nazi ideology. This is the problem with America, we are becoming so politically correct that final assessments are now becoming automatic. Instead, we should be more analytical and ask ourselves questions though this is why Americans are seen as stupid and ignorant by other countries. By the way, key word @Mysteryman, "considered" which means it is opened to discussion whether racial profiling is racist or not. Besides, if it wasn't for racial profiling our Post 9/11 era would be much worse.
Haroush says2015-07-17T11:33:57.6435282-05:00
By the way, what the f*** do you all do all day? It seems certain people are here all of the time.
triangle.128k says2015-07-17T11:38:30.7341260-05:00
Haroush, finally laying off the insults, huh?
TyroneShelton says2015-07-17T11:38:56.9514216-05:00
Wait wait wait. So youre saying the Nazi flag has just as much a right to be flown publicly as the Confederate flag? Well folks that raps this argument up.
triangle.128k says2015-07-17T11:41:00.4463663-05:00
The difference between the swastika and the confederate flag, is that the swastika has cultural links. The confederate flag has links to racism and anti-American rebellion. Unless you count rednecks waving it as one of it's links.
Haroush says2015-07-17T11:42:16.7176648-05:00
Also, what is the difference between between racial profiling versus profiling someone because of the flag they fly when they have different meaning according to human perception?
triangle.128k says2015-07-17T11:44:11.9663386-05:00
Does it make sense to hold a Nazi flag calling it "German pride" or "Aryan Pride?"
Haroush says2015-07-17T11:44:40.7692361-05:00
I'll put it to you this way @ Triangle.. If you respect me, I will respect you. Just because we disagree vehemently on highly controversial topics doesn't mean we can't be respectful to each other. I believe in forgiveness so feel free to jump in the discussion.
TyroneShelton says2015-07-17T11:45:02.8768614-05:00
You see symbols get associated with meanings. The swastika is associated with Nazi Germany which is associated with the holocaust and attempting to take over the world and propoganda. The confederate flag is associated with a failed rebellion in a desperate attempt to keep slavery legal. And the failed states rights they also wanted
TBR says2015-07-17T11:46:32.5058377-05:00
@Haroush - You are jumping all over the place without making, substantiating, or defending any point you attempt to make. =="So if you see a white man with a swastika you are automatically going to assume they believe in Nazism?"== - The fact that some (if not most) non-Hindus or Buddhists are wearing the symbol as a representation OTHER than its religious meaning is easy to prove, and still not critical to this argument. That the symbol has become something other than just its original religious meaning is indisputable. "And the Swastika is mainly used for religious purposes that have nothing to do with Nazi ideology. " Well now, that is not proven or even relevant. "Mainly" again admits that there IS other meaning to the symbol. You keep conceding the argument and don't seem to realize it. As for what I do, I own my own company. I work... About all the time. That is, I am behind a computer at almost all waking hours. Distraction is good for the brain.
TBR says2015-07-17T11:49:39.5645292-05:00
@Haroush - You have been wildly disrespectful of just about everyone you have come across. Show some of that respect, and others will respond in kind.
Haroush says2015-07-17T11:53:05.0385439-05:00
And the American flag should be seen as symbolizing racism, slavery, and bigotry on those standings @ Tyrone Now @TBR, see here we go again you are going to claim what I am saying is not facts just because of your own personal beliefs this is why I say there is no purpose in us discussing this matter since your judgement is terribly corroded. You probably feel the same way about me which is why you shouldn't discuss this subject with me.. Not because you shouldn't, but because us discussing the subject will not be productive at all for neither one of us.
TBR says2015-07-17T11:56:28.4250568-05:00
@Haroush - And the American flag should be seen as symbolizing racism, slavery, and bigotry..." Look above. Give me ONE second of that respect you say you have. I responded to each of your points, this included. You simply ignore it all, and move on to the next deflection. Either you don't understand, or not reading. I don't know which, but if you WANT to discuss the issue like an adult person, then start with responding to some of the questions BACK at you.
Haroush says2015-07-17T11:58:57.2507070-05:00
There you go already getting emotional.. You should just stop there.
TBR says2015-07-17T11:59:38.0291070-05:00
@Haroush - What on earth are you talking about?
Midnight1131 says2015-07-17T12:05:11.8687547-05:00
I believe he realized he has no good case left, so he's trying to end the discussion.
Haroush says2015-07-17T12:05:24.5826732-05:00
TBR, what do you do for work?
TBR says2015-07-17T12:07:55.5447256-05:00
@Haroush - You obviously just don't read anything anyone types. Look a couple posts above.
Haroush says2015-07-17T12:09:12.5369744-05:00
@Midnight, If there is no progress in a discussion from either side why keep going at it? So, you can get entertainment out of it at others expense? If so, that is ignorant and inconsiderate of other people.
Haroush says2015-07-17T12:10:57.2561890-05:00
Some people on here are just too immature to even discuss things and I am not talking about you TBR..
Midnight1131 says2015-07-17T12:19:15.6457614-05:00
I'm not going at anything. I was just making an observation and interpreting it.
Haroush says2015-07-17T12:21:21.2339944-05:00
Denying something is the easy way out and besides I didn't say you were going at anything...
Midnight1131 says2015-07-17T12:25:00.9932354-05:00
"If there is no progress in a discussion from either side why keep going at it?" This is where you said it. And if you have a problem with me denying it maybe you can try and prove yourself right.
Haroush says2015-07-17T12:26:34.4226358-05:00
Meaning why TBR and I keep going at it.. That is what that is saying..
Haroush says2015-07-17T12:26:56.1927812-05:00
Meaning why TBR and I keep going at it.. That is what that is saying..
mystery_man43 says2015-07-17T12:37:12.3969791-05:00
@Haroush Do you ever wonder why Hindus and Buddhists aren't wearing swastikas anymore? Exactly.
Black-Jesus says2015-07-17T12:54:49.2508655-05:00
Aren't you people done yet? Hey, WE SHOULD MAKE A REALITY TV SHOW. We could call it "Debate: The Series", I'll be director, you guys can write for your equivalent characters and we'll get some attractive Hollywood actors to play them.
TBR says2015-07-17T12:56:49.0419701-05:00
The polls have been very dull recently Black-Jesus. This is the best we have right now.
Black-Jesus says2015-07-17T12:57:51.9015794-05:00
Yeeeaaah
Varrack says2015-07-17T13:00:30.4482961-05:00
@TBR, we should start up the "me for president" polls again. Those were semi-interesting.
TBR says2015-07-17T13:01:19.7293279-05:00
I was thinking about a poll question about the most attractive shape of mons venus / mons pubis, but after getting a poll about Lady Chatterley's Lover removed, I think the subject is too much for the audience.
TBR says2015-07-17T13:03:06.3874663-05:00
@Varrack - If you ran RIGHT NOW, you could get as much support as some of the clowns in the clown car.
Varrack says2015-07-17T13:07:29.4346663-05:00
TBR vs Varrack for prez. It will be the show of the week.
Oreo222 says2015-07-17T13:28:09.3257177-05:00
Woah! It's been less than a day since I posted my last comment and I come back to see this? Wow. Haroush: you say there are stereotypical blacks and whites and "Mexicans" (I assume you mean Hispanics but I'll let it slide). Not everyone follows the stereotypes that society throws at them. Not every black person is a thug. Not every white person is rich. Not every Hispanic is an illegal immigrant. Not every Asian is smart. Not every Muslim is a terrorist (I appear to be the only Muslim on this thread so I gotta defend my people).
Haroush says2015-07-17T19:21:11.7057654-05:00
@Oreo, All I was saying is that stereotypical people do exist. I didn't say everyone is like that. @ mysteryman, You don't know what you are talking about..
TBR says2015-07-17T22:24:38.4817440-05:00
@Haroush - Provide us with something, anything, to back your bare assertions.
S.K says2015-07-18T00:16:17.1035875-05:00
It's funny how people are now jumping on the bandwagon and saying the confederate flag is racist. First of all, how do you know it's racist? Do you have factual evidence to back your claims? Do you know why the flag was originally created for? People are too over-sensitive and easily offended by everything. "Oh My God... I'm Offended. Ban This Immediately." And then the government is going to step in and ban the flag because we're a bunch of babies.
TBR says2015-07-18T10:11:26.8143504-05:00
OK S.K - "It's funny how people are now jumping on the bandwagon and saying the confederate flag is racist." - The flag is a 'negative symbol' and has been for a very long time. No bandwagon. || "First of all, how do you know it's racist? Do you have factual evidence to back your claims?" - Look through the thread, plenty of examples. || "Do you know why the flag was originally created for?" - Everyone in this thread knows the history well. Few I have ever met don't know. || "People are too over-sensitive and easily offended by everything." - Some are naive of how offensive the flag is to many people. "Oh My God... I'm Offended. Ban This Immediately." And then the government is going to step in and ban the flag because we're a bunch of babies." - WHERE is the goverment "banning" this flag? Nowhere. YOU don't seem to understand the issue.
TyroneShelton says2015-07-19T02:20:52.9657310-05:00
What factual evidence do you have to back up your claims? Just the States own reasons for seceding that they wrote down as their reasons. The, by far, most prominent of these being Slavery. Slavery is wrong. Therefore something that supports slavery is wrong, The south supports slavery, therefore the South is wrong.
Haroush says2015-07-19T05:33:53.3562425-05:00
It's not like the other side has any factual evidence of anything.. You all just repeat that same phrase over and over again to make it seem like if you are for the opposition it could only be because of the couple of reasons they believe the confederate flag stands for. Frankly, no one has to accept their assertions.
Haroush says2015-07-19T05:41:00.2466165-05:00
Just recently there was a stand off between the KKK and the New Black Panther Party. And guess what? Everyone stood with the New Black Panther Party.. Do you realize how hypocritical this is and how racist the New Black Panther Party is?? This also shows how their is such a double standard in this country. Black people are allowed to be racist. While white people aren't. Ironic. Even though I am not racist myself this doesn't seem justified to me.
TBR says2015-07-19T10:47:55.1722243-05:00
@Haroush - WHAT? You just can't seem to get anything. It is a SYMBOL, it is perceived as negative. Want MORE reasons? How about the words of the creator of the flag. "As a people we are fighting to maintain the Heaven-ordained supremacy of the white man over the inferior or colored race; a white flag would thus be emblematical of our cause." - William Thompson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Tappan_Thompson doe THAT work for you?
Varrack says2015-07-19T10:58:03.7015472-05:00
Slavery was the main reason for secession, and the Confederate flag represents those beliefs. So really, if you support the flag, you must support slavery, or else you are against the the very reason for the Confederacy's existence. It's quite paradoxical to be against slavery and not be racist.
triangle.128k says2015-07-19T12:48:54.4536685-05:00
@Varrack It was actually state's rights as the main reason. Slavery was a big part of it though.
Vox_Veritas says2015-07-19T15:32:25.7796916-05:00
I disagree that the Irish were treated worse than Blacks, though they were treated pretty badly.
TBR says2015-07-19T15:43:10.7187592-05:00
@Vox_Veritas - No reasonable person would. Further, a reasonable man would not argue that one bad thing is OK because of another bad thing.
Varrack says2015-07-19T15:54:13.1096222-05:00
@triangle, by looking at the secession ordinances given by the states, it seems like slavery was the biggest reason. http://www.civilwar.org/education/history/secession/
TBR says2015-07-19T16:12:29.8907230-05:00
I agree with Varrack. I am not dismissing all the other reasons, but it is revisionist to ignore or minimize slavery. Many of the "other" reasons are directly related to slavery too.
tajshar2k says2015-07-19T19:08:22.6596188-05:00
Anybody else feel like somethings should be left to the Federal government, rather than state rights? We had a whole civil war because of this.
triangle.128k says2015-07-19T19:41:03.9664511-05:00
@tajshar2k Yeah but the system of federalism works in both ways. Some policies are dictated to the national government, others are dictated to state governments.
Midnight1131 says2015-07-19T19:41:42.6230033-05:00
Yup, the lack of control by the federal gov't over the states is a negative thing about the US [to me anyways.]
triangle.128k says2015-07-19T19:44:45.4538313-05:00
@Midnight1131 The national government actually has control of many things. A more unitary government would only make sense in nations that aren't as diverse, or having a smaller population. USA has a large population, and it's very culturally diverse.
triangle.128k says2015-07-19T19:45:56.1213783-05:00
Countries like Canada do fine under a more united government would be fine because Canada has a smaller population. It's not that, but Canada also has a very homogenous culture, it's not as diverse culturally.
Midnight1131 says2015-07-19T20:01:35.4953166-05:00
That's actually very true.
Midnight1131 says2015-07-19T20:03:31.3737462-05:00
That's actually very true.
Haroush says2015-07-19T20:08:12.7999604-05:00
Blah, blah, blah.. Why are you all discussing this among each other if there is no debate? The only reason I can find is to drown out previous conversations..
triangle.128k says2015-07-19T20:09:23.7933392-05:00
Haroush, you're not successful if your attempt is being a troll. Unless you're actually a neo-confederate that supports rebelling against the union.
triangle.128k says2015-07-19T20:12:26.8340606-05:00
@Midnight1131 You acknowledge that it's true, so the USA wouldn't really do well under a unitary government. Which is why we tried a confederacy in the early USA government, which had failed, so we adopted the federal system. Some people here.... Apparently think we should go back to a confederate government.
Haroush says2015-07-19T20:15:36.7399141-05:00
Ah, so you are acknowledging you are indeed attempting to drown out previous conversations. Check.
TBR says2015-07-19T20:33:19.4231706-05:00
Get a grip Haroush. Your silly posts will not soon be forgotten.
alindahl99 says2015-09-24T17:15:14.0103863Z
I wish the choices would just say positive/negative and not have little explanations. I chose negative, but I think it can exist without racists connotations.
TX_Debator says2015-09-28T22:42:50.9108609Z
I'm a liberal, but the flag represents southern pride. It is freedom of speech to show the flag. Also not everyone who shows the flag is a racist. Only ignorant/racist people would accept it as an ignorant/racist symbol.
Berend says2015-09-28T23:51:58.8385432Z
Southern pride? What southern pride are you talking about exactly? Also, it's not really freedom of speech, it's freedom of expression to be more exact, in my opinion.
Haroush says2015-09-29T17:22:01.0057251Z
Well you have a partner in crime @ TX. Lol, I thought you had to be conservative to support the flag? ;)
Diarmuid100 says2016-01-14T14:34:06.4286970Z
No the old confederate flag (stars and bars) was a symbol of racism but the new one isn't
Penny_L says2016-10-04T20:39:57.2414727Z
There were numerous blacks that fought under that flag and flew it proudly. Once again you "everything and everyone is racist" leftist don't know a damn thing about genuine history. The only thing you believe or listen to is when your far left, I hate America and everything else, professor teaches you nothing but a bunch of bold-faced lies, in history class.
MyacronymissimplyCEE says2019-12-16T01:21:26.3243649Z
In these troubled times, These Last Days, All I can advise is, The harder you stamp it into the ground, The more you'll find yourselves drowning in quicksand. Which, Would be fun to watch.

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