This is the Confederate flag: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/da/Flag_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America_(1861-1863).svg/1024px-Flag_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America_(1861-1863).svg.png Does that represent hate and racism? The one people keep complaining racism about is the Confederate battle flag.
Bold way to display distorted, painstakingly cherry-picked heritage
Stirring symbol of South’s never-surrender attitude 150 years after South’s surrender
It’s already all the way up there on flagpole
Simplest way to let others know your state ranks in bottom quintile of all quality-of-life metrics
Eliminates uncomfortable feeling of having to say aloud what you think of African Americans
Political correctness should not get in the way of being on the wrong side of history
Without it, nation might forget racism ever happened in U.S.
Can’t fully grasp its incredible grandeur like you can on a bedspread or garage door
May arouse negative feelings among blacks regarding 19th-century states’ rights, currency inflation, and sectarianism
U.S. Flag already represents history of entrenched prejudice just as well
Eliminates tedious raising, lowering, and triangular-folding tasks
Has always been sad reminder of The Dukes Of Hazzard’s cancellation
Could give accurate representation as to what kind of person is flying it
There still plenty of other ways to make nation’s black population feel despised, derided, and inferior
I think that the confederate flag doesn't MEAN slavery and oppression, its what was done under the flag. Like how the Nazi symbol doesn't signify killing jews it signifies hope but they slaughtered innocent people under the symbol.
I always thought it was more of a regional symbol-- in that it represented the South as a unique region of the United States. The North/South difference was there since the beginning (Civil War was only a culmination of ongoing regional differences), so I figured that people have come to use it to represent Southern unity. I had no idea that it still is used as a racist symbol.
I don't get why everyone is saying it's a "neutral" symbol; there's no such thing. Symbols have meaning, and that meaning can be objectively described as good or bad based on the most popular/strongest interpretation. It is a negative symbol BECAUSE people are offended by it, not the other way around. That's the thing about symbols - they get their meaning from people, but that meaning is just as valid as if it were an intrinsic property.
Perhaps someone should ask the confederate soldiers what they thought it meant. Both the
American flag and the Confederate flag in the beginning meant very similar things. A rebellion against an oppressive government taking away certain freedoms and liberties. The average confederate soldier believed they were fighting to defend their home and really not so much a way of life. As is so often the case, the grunts did all the fighting while the rich stayed home, you wont find a poor man in the 1860,s south who owned a slave. Those that fought and died under this flag deserve as much recognition as any American soldier. As again, so often the case, the flag became a symbol of hatred and racism, not because of those that fought under it, but because a lousy few decided to use it as such a symbol in the years following the war. Be careful what you wish for.
"do you see all Irish people screaming to take down the American flag because of the oppression and much worse treatment they received than the blacks during the civil war era?"........... Breaking news from the polls section of DDO, rumors of the weekly stupid coming back have returned after one user went on a spree of human stupidity early this morning
"Technically your also a bigot for calling guys bigots for calling Confederate supporters bigots." Now prove that I am with facts buddy. You are messing with someone who knows all too well about American History. So go ahead and hit me with your best shot.
What a hypocrite and the north still had plenty of slavery too. Not to mention blacks were not treated better by Nazi's than confederates. Also it is the winning side of history that gets to write it. Cherry pick history you want to keep and leave out things you don't want to keep. By the way, there is quite a few black southerners who fly the confederate flag because they know what it stands for. It's ironic you are arguing from the same side of the spectrum that said the flag killed those innocent people in that church, not the killer. Just like how liberals argue guns kill people. Though the truth is people kill people. I once put my gun on my front porch and told it to go kill someone. That evening I went to sleep and woke up next morning to see that my gun was still there. I thought to myself, well I thought guns kill people.
Abraham Lincoln said himself if he could defeat the south without ending slavery he would. He also said that he'd rather white people be the supreme race. Not to mention he was the one who sent African Americans over to Liberia only to get rid of them ( Hence is the reason Liberia has an American Flag on it). Furthermore, at the end of civil war General Lee requested that the Cherokee Indians have all their land returned back to them, but did that happen? No. Call it anti- American, but just know you are making yourself look like a fool.
@Haroush - "If anyone is anti-American it is those people who cast judgments upon confederates and SOCS as being racist bigots. When in fact those people who believe this are racist bigots themselves."
Oh? Calling the people who divided the nations, broke from the nation, wanted to be their own nation? That makes us anti-American to judge those who choose to be free from the U.S.? That makes as much sense as calling people who judge Canada Anti-American. The flag represents the South (it wasn't the official flag, FYI) but still reps. A side that stands for what it is: Treason. Over something quite stupid, every single one of the Confederates, including Robert E. Lee, should have been shot in the head for committing Treason if at the worse.
Those calling the south who wanted the right to slavery (their economy was failing anyways) are the racist and bigots, they started a war because they disliked the opposing view. That's literally just it. How is calling someone racist a racist? The people who normally uphold the flag are the racist, and that's a fact.
I think it depends on perspective. The Rebel flag stands for freedom...Sort of. It never did stand for slavery...Directly. It stood for the right of states to govern themselves, as opposed to the federal government being the supreme authority, and having the ability to overrule the laws of the states. It also stands for a division of the country, which is, in and of itself, reason to prohibit its display on any government property. What other country would permit the display of a defeated violent revolution?
"If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that." You missed out on a big chunk of that quote, nice try.
Well, the conversation has gone a long way from my last comment, but here it goes. YOU don't get to solely define what the symbol is. The KKK gets to say it represents them. Black people get to say what it means to them. Just because YOU want it to mean one thing over another is meaningless. You are NOT the only one with access to the flag, and an opinion on what it is.
In 1864, the Confederate States began to abandon slavery. There are some indications that even without a war, the Confederacy would have ended slavery. Most historians believe that the Confederacy only started to abandon slavery once their defeat was imminent. If that were true then we are to believe that the CSA wanted independence more than they wanted to hold on to slavery. The CSA’s highest ranking generals, Robert E. Lee and Joseph E. Johnston were not slave holders and did not believe in slavery. And according to an 1860 census, only 31% of families owned slaves. 75% of families that owned slaves owned less than 10 and often worked beside them in the fields. The Confederate Constitution banned the overseas slave trade, and permitted Confederate states to abolish slavery within their borders if they wanted to do so. Slavery wasn’t abolished until 1868, 3 years after the war. Thus Kentucky, Missouri, Maryland and Delaware still had slaves.
"As between the loss of independence and the loss of slavery, we assume that every patriot will freely give up the latter — give up the negro slave rather than be a slave himself"- Confederate Major General Patrick Cleburne
Total number of slaves brought over to the Americas between 1525 and 1866.
Of that number, total number of slaves brought to North America....
Results from the 1860 census report
United States Population
Total number of slaves in the United States...
Total number of slave owners
At this point, these are probably the most accurate of the numbers that can be found.
This gives us 10 slaves per person of those that owned slaves.
The United States Banned the importation of slaves in 1808.
The best estimate I can find for slaves murdered or died due to bad living conditions in North America between 1525 and 1866....
A number which is hotly contested. One count was at 100 Million, which is easy to see is impossible from the census.
From the civilwar.Org.....
Total number of casualties during the civil war....
476,000 captured / missing
Of this number how many were Black?
of which 30,000 died of infection or disease
Nah, just like facts and figures. Kind of puts things in perspective. Thought it interesting that the largest part of the slave trade was in central and South America. I do remember hearing that many plantation owners moved to south America after the war. Also in interest of reparations it seems that nearly as many died during the war then all of the slaves that were killed in the 350 years that slavery took place in North America. BTW, sorry this site reformatted my e-mail that I copied this from. Been talking to others about it ya know... Many points are in the numbers...
Majority of what I said was largely ignored and again ignored by the same people as usual simply because they don't like me. Now if anything is a good example of hate and bigotry, it would be the actions taken by triangle, Imabench, tajshar2k, and TBR. There is others, but just because of the facts I report these people have a desire to see my character defamed.
If anything is an example of hate and bigotry, it is those actions taken by tajshar2k, triangle, Imabench, and TBR to defame my character simply because of facts that I put out there. It is quite obvious their agenda here isn't to discuss this matter but to simply reject people who happen to disagree with their decision on this poll.
Taj, Someone doesn't have to provide sources in order for things to be true. For example, If I tell you the sky is blue, you can go outside and see the sky is blue. Furthermore, I didn't misquote once so ever, that was one sentence by it's self in a quote. Either way you look at it, looking at all of his quotes ( Abraham Lincoln) it is obvious he wasn't for blacks. I wonder why Louis Farakhan said," I don’t know what the hell the fight is about over the Confederate flag. We need to put the American flag down. Because we’ve caught as much hell under that as the Confederate flag,” comments that were meant with cheers and applause. He added, “Who are we fighting today? It’s the people that carry the American flag.”
Furthermore, how f***ing inconsiderate of people it is to just forget about all the slavery that has happened in this world but yet it is as if blacks were the only ones to be slaves.. Give me a f***ing break.
@Haroush - You have been so incensed at every turn, perhaps you want to be on a more vertical site. There are plenty of places where your brand of... Thought... Is well received and not questioned. This is an environment where statements will be challenged. And... You do know that the sky is not blue, right?
The flag supporters seem to blithely ignore that a great number of people know exactly what it means TO THEM, and its not good. If you think it means "pride" there is another guy that gets a completely different read. His read is just as valid as yours.
Either way it's hypocrisy. Again, people keep ignoring the fact I bring up that slavery is still wide spread today and the fact many other people other than blacks have been slaves too. Which this whole argument from the negative side is about slavery.
@Haroush - You keep driving right past the part where you agree that it represents slavery (as well as other oppression). Your argument hinges on "well, there are OTHER slaves too". OK. Yes there are. That does NOT negate the argument that THIS symbol has a negative association. Further I would point out, the flag has MORE history associated with racism after its initial use in the civil war. It has been a banner for oppressive groups for much longer than it was used by the failed confederacy.
What is was used for after the civil war doesn't represent what it stands for.. The KKK has no part in the confederate flag. And here is where you are a hypocrite. The American flag represents hate and slavery too. Look at how this country started. Even some of my ancestors were slaves. So get out of here with that argument. Abraham Lincoln was a racist himself. Are you going to take down the Lincoln Memorial because he is a racist. What about Harry Truman? Come on now.. This is why liberals are hypocrites.
OK. Lets work through this a bit. "What is was used for after the civil war doesn't represent what it stands for..". That is now how it works. You don't get to be the arbitrator of all things flag related. The KKK has embraced this symbol, and since they have it is reasonable for those the message is pointed at to take it as presented. "The KKK has no part in the confederate flag.". Really? I am watching a documentary right now about the KKK. Not 2 min of screen time go past without the flag on-screen. "And here is where you are a hypocrite. The American flag represents hate and slavery too." OK. What of it? So, again, you admit that the Confederate flag represents hate in this statement, right? " Look at how this country started. Even some of my ancestors were slaves. So get out of here with that argument." - Why? Why would it? You have brought nothing to the table but agreeing that the flag is a negative symbol too. Abraham Lincoln was a racist himself. Are you going to take down the Lincoln Memorial because he is a racist. What about Harry Truman? Come on now.. This is why liberals are hypocrites." We can talk about Lincoln all you like, that still says little about why the battle flag is NOT a "negative symbol".
This argument is worthless with you. You are blatantly ignorant of your own hypocrisy. Not only this you fail to realize there are less kkk members than there are people who carry the flag for non racial reasons. Lastly, by your standard the American flag should be taken down too. See just like the American flag has its "bad" history to so does the confederate flag. This being said if you are going to take down confederate flags and disrespect dead confederate soldiers by digging up their graves then you must do the same to the American flag and those who stood underneath of it by moral obligation.
OK. Lets work through this one. "This argument is worthless with you. You are blatantly ignorant of your own hypocrisy. Not only this you fail to realize there are less kkk members than there are people who carry the flag for non racial reasons." - Not at all. That does NOT make the negative symbol positive, again, only concedes that the negative exists, right? "Lastly, by your standard the American flag should be taken down too. See just like the American flag has its "bad" history to so does the confederate flag." - If, say an American Indian (as you mentioned above) looks to the flag with discuss, I sure understand that. I am not ignoring his opinion, it is very valid to him. "This being said if you are going to take down confederate flags and disrespect dead confederate soldiers by digging up their graves then you must do the same to the American flag and those who stood underneath of it by moral obligation." - Why do you insist in proving over-and-over that the Confederate flag IS a negative symbol by arguing that OTHER symbols a negative too? You want to argue, but not debate. You have not addressed anyone's questions or comments directly.. Ever as best as I know.
The Confederate flag is racist to those who believe it is. Their thinking is justified. Southerners on the other hand, believe it stands for Southern pride. Their thinking is also justified. The problem is that the majority agree it doesn't represent anything good.
It sounds to me Taj that you are declaring this a draw? If so, I would say yes because the more people say this flag is negative and the more people oppress a certain peoples' 1st amendment rights, the more divided this society will become as those who disagree like me will speak up where only one side of the story is being told.
"It sounds to me Taj that you are declaring this a draw? If so, I would say yes because the more people say this flag is negative and the more people oppress a certain peoples' 1st amendment rights" - There is NO 1st amendment right involved here. There is NO law on the books or proposed keeping YOU, the individual, from having this flag. You may feel free to be a complete ass about it, spout off about it, or take a dump on it. No freedom of speech issue. Its not a "draw", as seen on this poll, and nationally, the flag is overwhelmingly seen as a negative symbol.
@triangle.128k - As for the, the better analogy to me is, did all the Nazis wearing the swastika think they were representing Budda? Hinduism, Jainism? When I watch Shindlers List, should I assume that "well, he was just saying 'luck' and 'good will'?
No, its not a draw, its an opinion. Most agree that its racist, but some Southerner agree that it represents Southern pride. Nobody is preventing these moron's from displaying it, but most people will agree that its a stupid flag to hoist. Haroush seems to think that everybody who is against are bigots. With his logic, everybody is a bigot.
@tajshar2k - I took the time to attempt to address Haroush "points". He ignores them all. What I have been saying since post one is, like you have said, it IS opinion. The opinion of those that see it as a negative symbol are based on their experiences, and any attempt to argue some civil war history, or if Lincoln said this or that makes NO difference in how the battle flag is received by the majority of people (and the GREAT majority of blacks). Completely ignoring what they say is... Well its Haroush now, isn't it.
I've never understood this Southern pride thing. The South is part of the Union, so shouldn't displaying the American flag be their demonstration of pride? Why display a flag of a divisive and once racist nation that was ultimately defeated, not to mention nonexistent for the last 150 years? It really makes no sense.
@tajshar2k I'd agree with that to some extent, more southerners see the USA as being a nation founded on Christian values and a "Christian nation." Yet they blame "libtards" for being unconstitutional.
@Haroush No one ignored you, rather dismisses what you say, because we don't like you. It's because you respond ignorantly and you so clearly have a victim complex. What you say is nonsensical and you miss everyone's point. Stop acting like you are this victim that everyone hates. We don't hate you. Disagreeing and finding your knee jerk reactions, or whatever it maybe, is not the same as hating you.
It's obvious certain people just like being ignorant to the facts I put out there that aren't opinions. It's obvious certain people feel comfortable to ignore what I say because they out number me. I'm not the one being ignorant you all are. Just because there is a majority, it doesn't mean the majority is right or their OPINION is TRUE. @ Tyrone, You are damn right we don't surrender. Especially when people want to see things as fact because of the majorities' OPINION on here.
@Haroush , no, and you are not claiming people liek me are ignorant while strawmanning us? That just shows how weak your position is. No one claimed we are right on the sole basis of "there is more". No one has argued from popularity. You, however, are starting more and more to argue from victimization. You say things, deem themas facts, deny what others say while fallacy up the place. Not that you are the only one, before you reply that others are too, but you need to stop with your "I am the victim" card. It's pathetic.
=== I have read most of what you said, and non of the thing supporting your side vs the majority is proven via facts. You are deluded by your own confirmation bias. People ignore your facts? And not once have you done it to others?====
==="It's obvious certain people feel comfortable to ignore what I say because they out number me."====
No, and you are playing the victim card while starwmanning the reason people deny your "facts".
I am not going to explain everything I already explained to you or anyone who blatantly rejects what the opposition says simply because they have reached a verdict in their mind that will never change no matter what is said or presented.
@ Haroush - ="I'm not the one being ignorant you all are. Just because there is a majority, it doesn't mean the majority is right or their OPINION is TRUE."=
Not one single person has implied that. You have such a weak stance that you are turning from the points and going on to tell us that we are ignoring you on the basis of majority. No one's argued from popularity.
=="@Tyrone, You are damn right we don't surrender. Especially when people want to see things as fact because of the majorities' OPINION on here.""==
"They don;'t agree with what I said, therefor they must deny facts and there for we need to just keep being closed minded by standing by our notion vs simply having intellectual discussions." < --- Basis of what you said.
@ Haroush "I am not going to explain everything I already explained to you or anyone who blatantly rejects what the opposition says simply because they have reached a verdict in their mind that will never change no matter what is said or presented."
That's literally what you are freaking doing. Lol. It's like you have no self-awareness. No one asked you to reiterate what you said. I already said I read most of what you said. Disagreeing with your clauses doesn't mean I am rejecting facts, it's simply not believing everything you say, just as you should not automatically side with us on the basis of one post.
Your issue is that you can't handle others differing in your opinion and therefor try to save face with knee jerk reaction responses to some how defend why you are right and everyone else is wrong, even is with a victim card to boot.
"Just because there is a majority, it doesn't mean the majority is right or their OPINION is TRUE" So, your saying that your opinion is true? Do you know the definition of opinion? Its not true or false. Racism and Slavery generally aren't socially acceptable in the Western world anymore, so I do not see how this would mean our opinions aren't true.
@Haroush "Do you think I am going to respond to your foolish ranting? If you did... The answer is no." You just replied. And you just proved my point. I made fairly valid responses to your little banter yet you claim my post was foolish while failing to see your own foolishness in your post.
I took the time to address everyone of your points you haven't taken the time to answer one of my questions. As has been noted you only want pity. If your ideas can't stand on their own don't blame us.
"Just like Andrew Jackson I will take your shot to the chest survive and return a one shot one kill."
I just like to mention 2 things. 1: I wouldn't let you survive. I'm already trained with guns, and I would make sure the threat is no longer a threat with. 2: How would you purposely make the bullet target your chest? What if I shoot you in the head?
Haroush - You can't seem to get that this is not about how racist JFK might have been, or Lincoln. That MAKES NO DIFFERENCE. If you were capable of PROVING that, you still have NOT addressed the issue. Do you not get that?
Funny, lot of that list are people I LOVE... Heil - Well, he is just Heil. I see no possible way to block him anyway. What you going to do, block Heli*? RXR, jerk, but have seen little of him recently. Uther_Penguin - Benign. Genesis - Well, jerk but fun jerk. Don't know shalal12 or XLAV. NOW, vi_spex? You MUST be joking. Joking is true. True is 1 (yes). My dog licked my face, I know that to be true, 1=yes. I like VI_Spex. Just logic.
@tajshar2k I know that many people opposed to marriage still support rights and all. I was just giving one example of what mystery_man does, he's a religious zealot (possibly a troll) that uses the stupidest reasoning ever..
@triangle.128k You automatically accuse everyone, who disagrees with you, as being a troll. Seems legit. How about accusing Bush of being a troll, I'm sure that will make everyone believe you. Do us a favor and tell the world that Hillary is a troll. At least that would be doing something productive.
To those that say it's a symbol of Southern pride: does that "pride" include committing the largest mass treason this country has ever seen? Or how the South enslaved people just because of their skin color? Or the fact that Southern schools practically brainwash you into thinking that such a symbol of hate and treason is something to be proud of?
Some of you also claim the war was started because of "State's Rights." That's a load of crap. The South hated black people and wanted to continue to hate and oppress black people. Please be real with yourselves.
Some say that symbols don't kill people, people kill people. True, though that doesn't mean you should proudly display something associated with the deaths of thousands because your ancestors wanted to enslave another human being. Please, at least have some decency.
The Confederate Flag belongs in a museum, where it should be remembered as the banner of a horrible rebellion.
Being proud of that flag is saying that you're proud of racism, slavery, oppression, and treason.
I feel this racist, bigoted, moronic and sophomoric kid should be reported. Yes, I'm bisexual, but that doesn't mean I'm into you. I'm more intrigued by your lack of intellect. You are, by no means, my type. I'm a sapiosexual. You clearly do not match that criteria.
Berend - You are going to blow his little mind. To him sex is a sacred thing between a man and a Taiwanese hooker. That's the way straight God said in JohnDoesTheOrient 3:15. Wait.. Is that right, or did I watch that on Cinemax ON 3-15.
Haha Well I'm making a debate to challenge him on it being a positive symbol for the U.S. If I'm going after him, I might as well challenger him with no fist held back by short, unorganized Opinion post.
Personal perception is not truth. Nor is majority perception. Historical documents hold truth. Though even historical documents can be biased because it was a human being who wrote them that is easily swayed by emotion (at least written documents). The only documents that should be recognized in history are those documents that contain pictures, places, and things that don't display emotion. Emotional bias is a commonly used form of persuasion in today's society to make someone believe a certain idea.
Go ahead and explain to me how that is racist? There is typical white people, black people, Mexicans, Jews, Saudis, Muslims, and others... So please go ahead and explain to me how what I said is racist. Stereotypical people do exist, correct?
@Haroush That would be considered racial profiling, which is in fact considered racist. By definition profiling is "the practice of categorizing people and predicting their behaviour according to particular characteristics such as race or age" - Dictionary.Com
Oh and since people keep mentioning the Nazi flag on here.. I would like for you all to know the Nazi flag didn't even originate with the Nazi's. The Swastika stems from ancient religions and philosophies that have nothing to do with the Nazis. Just like the Confederate flag has nothing to do with the KKK.
Haroush - If you bothered to read, you would see that I was making that very point. The Swastika most assuredly represented the Nazis, even though the symbol was (and is) used much longer by Hindus, Buddhist and the Janis religion. It is not only reasonable for people to associate the Swastika with negative events, it is the most common interpretation of the symbol, aside from its religious history. The same can be said of the battle flag in this question. It is as negative as the Swastika for many many Americans.
So if you see a white man with a swastika you are automatically going to assume they believe in Nazism? And the Swastika is mainly used for religious purposes that have nothing to do with Nazi ideology. This is the problem with America, we are becoming so politically correct that final assessments are now becoming automatic. Instead, we should be more analytical and ask ourselves questions though this is why Americans are seen as stupid and ignorant by other countries. By the way, key word @Mysteryman, "considered" which means it is opened to discussion whether racial profiling is racist or not. Besides, if it wasn't for racial profiling our Post 9/11 era would be much worse.
The difference between the swastika and the confederate flag, is that the swastika has cultural links. The confederate flag has links to racism and anti-American rebellion. Unless you count rednecks waving it as one of it's links.
I'll put it to you this way @ Triangle.. If you respect me, I will respect you. Just because we disagree vehemently on highly controversial topics doesn't mean we can't be respectful to each other. I believe in forgiveness so feel free to jump in the discussion.
You see symbols get associated with meanings. The swastika is associated with Nazi Germany which is associated with the holocaust and attempting to take over the world and propoganda. The confederate flag is associated with a failed rebellion in a desperate attempt to keep slavery legal. And the failed states rights they also wanted
@Haroush - You are jumping all over the place without making, substantiating, or defending any point you attempt to make. =="So if you see a white man with a swastika you are automatically going to assume they believe in Nazism?"== - The fact that some (if not most) non-Hindus or Buddhists are wearing the symbol as a representation OTHER than its religious meaning is easy to prove, and still not critical to this argument. That the symbol has become something other than just its original religious meaning is indisputable. "And the Swastika is mainly used for religious purposes that have nothing to do with Nazi ideology. " Well now, that is not proven or even relevant. "Mainly" again admits that there IS other meaning to the symbol. You keep conceding the argument and don't seem to realize it. As for what I do, I own my own company. I work... About all the time. That is, I am behind a computer at almost all waking hours. Distraction is good for the brain.
And the American flag should be seen as symbolizing racism, slavery, and bigotry on those standings @ Tyrone Now @TBR, see here we go again you are going to claim what I am saying is not facts just because of your own personal beliefs this is why I say there is no purpose in us discussing this matter since your judgement is terribly corroded. You probably feel the same way about me which is why you shouldn't discuss this subject with me.. Not because you shouldn't, but because us discussing the subject will not be productive at all for neither one of us.
@Haroush - And the American flag should be seen as symbolizing racism, slavery, and bigotry..." Look above. Give me ONE second of that respect you say you have. I responded to each of your points, this included. You simply ignore it all, and move on to the next deflection. Either you don't understand, or not reading. I don't know which, but if you WANT to discuss the issue like an adult person, then start with responding to some of the questions BACK at you.
@Midnight, If there is no progress in a discussion from either side why keep going at it? So, you can get entertainment out of it at others expense? If so, that is ignorant and inconsiderate of other people.
Aren't you people done yet? Hey, WE SHOULD MAKE A REALITY TV SHOW. We could call it "Debate: The Series", I'll be director, you guys can write for your equivalent characters and we'll get some attractive Hollywood actors to play them.
I was thinking about a poll question about the most attractive shape of mons venus / mons pubis, but after getting a poll about Lady Chatterley's Lover removed, I think the subject is too much for the audience.
Woah! It's been less than a day since I posted my last comment and I come back to see this? Wow.
Haroush: you say there are stereotypical blacks and whites and "Mexicans" (I assume you mean Hispanics but I'll let it slide). Not everyone follows the stereotypes that society throws at them. Not every black person is a thug. Not every white person is rich. Not every Hispanic is an illegal immigrant. Not every Asian is smart. Not every Muslim is a terrorist (I appear to be the only Muslim on this thread so I gotta defend my people).
It's funny how people are now jumping on the bandwagon and saying the confederate flag is racist. First of all, how do you know it's racist? Do you have factual evidence to back your claims? Do you know why the flag was originally created for? People are too over-sensitive and easily offended by everything. "Oh My God... I'm Offended. Ban This Immediately." And then the government is going to step in and ban the flag because we're a bunch of babies.
OK S.K - "It's funny how people are now jumping on the bandwagon and saying the confederate flag is racist." - The flag is a 'negative symbol' and has been for a very long time. No bandwagon. || "First of all, how do you know it's racist? Do you have factual evidence to back your claims?" - Look through the thread, plenty of examples. || "Do you know why the flag was originally created for?" - Everyone in this thread knows the history well. Few I have ever met don't know. || "People are too over-sensitive and easily offended by everything." - Some are naive of how offensive the flag is to many people. "Oh My God... I'm Offended. Ban This Immediately." And then the government is going to step in and ban the flag because we're a bunch of babies." - WHERE is the goverment "banning" this flag? Nowhere. YOU don't seem to understand the issue.
What factual evidence do you have to back up your claims? Just the States own reasons for seceding that they wrote down as their reasons. The, by far, most prominent of these being Slavery. Slavery is wrong. Therefore something that supports slavery is wrong, The south supports slavery, therefore the South is wrong.
It's not like the other side has any factual evidence of anything.. You all just repeat that same phrase over and over again to make it seem like if you are for the opposition it could only be because of the couple of reasons they believe the confederate flag stands for. Frankly, no one has to accept their assertions.
Just recently there was a stand off between the KKK and the New Black Panther Party. And guess what? Everyone stood with the New Black Panther Party.. Do you realize how hypocritical this is and how racist the New Black Panther Party is?? This also shows how their is such a double standard in this country. Black people are allowed to be racist. While white people aren't. Ironic. Even though I am not racist myself this doesn't seem justified to me.
@Haroush - WHAT? You just can't seem to get anything. It is a SYMBOL, it is perceived as negative. Want MORE reasons? How about the words of the creator of the flag. "As a people we are fighting to maintain the Heaven-ordained supremacy of the white man over the inferior or colored race; a white flag would thus be emblematical of our cause." - William Thompson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Tappan_Thompson doe THAT work for you?
Slavery was the main reason for secession, and the Confederate flag represents those beliefs. So really, if you support the flag, you must support slavery, or else you are against the the very reason for the Confederacy's existence. It's quite paradoxical to be against slavery and not be racist.
@Midnight1131 The national government actually has control of many things. A more unitary government would only make sense in nations that aren't as diverse, or having a smaller population. USA has a large population, and it's very culturally diverse.
Countries like Canada do fine under a more united government would be fine because Canada has a smaller population. It's not that, but Canada also has a very homogenous culture, it's not as diverse culturally.
@Midnight1131 You acknowledge that it's true, so the USA wouldn't really do well under a unitary government. Which is why we tried a confederacy in the early USA government, which had failed, so we adopted the federal system. Some people here.... Apparently think we should go back to a confederate government.
I'm a liberal, but the flag represents southern pride. It is freedom of speech to show the flag. Also not everyone who shows the flag is a racist. Only ignorant/racist people would accept it as an ignorant/racist symbol.
There were numerous blacks that fought under that flag and flew it proudly. Once again you "everything and everyone is racist" leftist don't know a damn thing about genuine history. The only thing you believe or listen to is when your far left, I hate America and everything else, professor teaches you nothing but a bunch of bold-faced lies, in history class.
It has connections to a wrongful past, But it also represents the lives lost fighting for it. I don't think it's a good symbol or a negative one. I think it's an impossibly morally grey area to the point that it just is. It just is, Not good or bad. Just is.
It has connections to a wrongful past, But it also represents the lives lost fighting for it. I don't think it's a good symbol or a negative one. I think it's an impossibly morally grey area to the point that it just is. It just is, Not good or bad. Just is.