Religious Freedom: My religion requires/allows same-sex couples to get married therefore it should be legal in all 50 States.

Posted by: briantheliberal

Many people believe they should have the right to discriminate against gay people in their businesses on basis of "religious freedom". So using the same logic, my religion, Pastafarianism, allows/requires gay people to get married so same sex marriage should be legal in all 50 states to accommodate my beliefs. So where is MY religious freedom or does "religious freedom" only apply to Christians?

  • I agree

  • I disagree

11% 1 votes
89% 8 votes
  • If you are going to justify and protect discrimination against gays or any other group under the law, the same applies to marriage. If someone's religion accepts gay marriage, the law should recognize gay marriages. FYI this is a HYPOTHETICAL situation, not meant to be taken literally. I am arguing based off of the concept of religious freedom laws.

  • My issue is with the word "therefore" in the question. Personally, I vote to make homosexual marriage legal the World over... but... and here's why I voted "no" it should have absolutely nothing to do with religion (even a made up one). Religion should have about as much say as your average Bronze Age man does today - that is to say, none! I want a World free from religion, not religions accorded freedoms that they do not deserve! In this case, you can't fight fire with fire, you need to **ss on their fire. Saying "homosexuality is a sin" should be a punishable offence (hate speak). I don't CARE that you have a Bronze Age text that tells you that that's right (that same text promotes slavery so you can hide it where the sun don't shine!).

  • Religious freedom as long as it doesn't impact on anyone else. I am gay so I am obviously pro marriage equality, but I don't think that it should be made legal only because a religion wants it to be. It's just basic human rights, and your religion shouldn't impact on me (regardless of the outcome).

  • I am a true Pastafarian, I and I am not offended by the lack of states allowing Gay marriage. Although the christians do not wish to allow this, there is no true way to make everyone happy.

  • People have the right not so serve you because you are gay or lesbian. They also have the right to not serve you if you are black or white or for any other reason on the face of the world. ITS CALLED FREEDOM!

    Posted by: BIGC
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briantheliberal says2015-05-07T23:47:00.1748315-05:00
Feel free to explain why.
briantheliberal says2015-05-07T23:59:57.3236464-05:00
AndyHood, I think you missed the entire point of this poll.
AndyHood says2015-05-08T00:01:55.9631674-05:00
No, Briantheliberal... I think that you wanted to make a point and you did so the wrong way. If "the entire point" was "gay marriage should be legal everywhere", why didn't you say THAT? If you have a problem with religion, why didn't you say THAT? Your conflation of two ideas was grossly inelegant and it's not my fault that you didn't ask the question that you intended!
PetersSmith says2015-05-08T00:02:17.4134424-05:00
I think separation of church and state would apply here, and that law doesn't apparently apply to private businesses, which is why they can refuse service based on religion. The flaws of capitalism, am I right?
AndyHood says2015-05-08T00:03:54.9614930-05:00
@Brian: can you not see how it's impossible to vote yes to your poll without accepting the implication that things should become laws SIMPLY BECAUSE religions ask for it? And that, I suspect, is directly contrary to what you intended... But that's your fault, not mine.
AndyHood says2015-05-08T00:15:04.1632724-05:00
You should have spotted your own error when you said "So using the same logic..." Don't lower yourself to other fools' levels. And please don't abuse the beautiful word "logic" like that, either! Neither what you claimed others did, nor what you said, were even remotely logical.
PureLogic says2015-05-08T00:20:41.6848912-05:00
This could apply if the government just excused members of that religion from the gay marriage ban. They do this for some groups already, just with different laws.
briantheliberal says2015-05-08T00:36:02.1444206-05:00
AndyHood, "can you not see how it's impossible to vote yes to your poll without accepting the implication that things should become laws SIMPLY BECAUSE religions ask for it" - No, because that isn't the point of the poll. The point was, using the same reasoning that people normally apply to "religious freedom" when discriminating against others, anyone who's religious beliefs accept same-sex marriage should have that right in all states, including the ones where same-sex marriage is currently illegal as well. Using the same reasoning, because my religion says I can, it is my right. I am not saying anything should be legal SIMPLY BECAUSE religions permit it. I am saying it should be legal because I have religious freedom as well, and according to the constitution, my First Amendment rights are being violated. This poll was made specifically to highlight the flaws and hypocrisy of people using "religious freedom" as justification to take away people's rights, while disregarding the fact that it also applies to everyone else. You completely misinterpreted everything I said and ignored the criteria I set for voters to consider BEFORE actually voting.
briantheliberal says2015-05-08T00:39:54.6966020-05:00
PetersSmith, Well Separation of Church and State should also apply to those ridiculous "Religious Freedom" laws but they do not for whatever reason. Also, the overwhelming majority of businesses doing the discriminating aren't really private if they use tax payer money to function, and operate on public property, but those businesses are allowed to discriminate, which I also don't get.
briantheliberal says2015-05-08T00:41:15.9424436-05:00
PureLogic, you have any examples? That has to be unconstitutional.
briantheliberal says2015-05-08T00:46:55.4807966-05:00
AndyHood, basically you have to apply the same reasoning. This doesn't reflect your own personal view or perception on the subject in question, you have to apply the same reasoning to the question.
briantheliberal says2015-05-08T02:48:35.9811759-05:00
Uglie-boy, yet another person completely missing the point and ignoring the set criteria. People on this site amaze me with their lack of ability to comprehend simple logic. I clearly never said same-sex marriage should be legal JUST BECAUSE MY RELIGION SAYS SO. I said it should be legal because, if we consider "religious freedom" the same reasoning is applied. If we were talking about "religious freedom" and my religion says same sex couples should get married, the law should recognize and accommodate my religious beliefs under the first amendment. What part of this is so difficult for people to understand?
uglie-boy says2015-05-08T02:59:17.1306422-05:00
Maybe if so many people are getting mixed up it isn't that logical? Specify, next time
briantheliberal says2015-05-08T03:03:43.5456884-05:00
I did. I clearly specified this in both the title and the description.
uglie-boy says2015-05-08T03:07:24.0701156-05:00
'My religion requires same sex couples to get married therefore it should be legal in all 50 states' - I don't think religion freedom should impact on anyone else. Religious freedom, to me, should stretch to being able to go to church, hand out flyers, whatever. I don't think religious freedom should be a basis for changing laws
briantheliberal says2015-05-08T03:26:54.8741681-05:00
And I agree, but I am not talking about that. I am speaking specifically from the reasoning of "religious freedom". If someone can use "religious freedom" to justify discrimination under the law, then I should be able to do the same thing when it comes to legalizing same-sex marriage because I also have the same religious freedom that they do.
AndyHood says2015-05-08T03:36:31.4797180-05:00
Okay, look, BrianTheLiberal: My religion (if I'm a Rastafarian) tells me that I must smoke marijuana on a regular basis; you gonna let me carry it around and smoke it when I want? It's my religious freedom! My religion (if I'm a Sikh) tells me that I must carry a knife wherever I go; you gonna let me take it on the plane? It's my religious freedom! My religion (if I'm an Aztec) tells me that when there is a dangerous storm I must perform ritual human sacrifice. You gonna let me? It's my religious freedom! Okay, I think you'll agree that religious freedom has a limit. I ENTIRELY agree with you that idiots using "it's my religious freedom to never employ homosexuals" are morally offensive swine and they shouldn't be allowed to get away with it... But the way to demonstrate that is not to try to jump through the same loophole that you've correctly identified that one shouldn't jump through: your fight should be to shut the loop by taking the position that it's complete nonsense to extend "religious freedom" in that context at all... You have the freedom to practice any religion you want (that's religious freedom) but not where that causes you to fall foul of the law of the land. And thankfully for you you live in the good ol' US of A and have got progressive anti-discrimination laws (despite your national obsession with bible bashing). Where those laws need updating, you should campaign to get them fixed. I MAY be on your side on the campaign, but NOT if you are claiming the right because of your religion. If it's your personal freedom you want support in, I'm on your side... If it's your religious freedom, you will not necessarily have my support. I just don't recognise "my religion says" as a valid plea. I won't discriminate against you for your religion, but I won't fight to make the World the way you want it for beliefs you have that you can't explain to me in any way that doesn't involve dogma. And notice that I am applying the same logic all round: screw the idea of religious freedom to break or make the rules! Why should we afford special import to what may well have been the pinnacle of Bronze Age philosophy and moral thinking? Let's keep the good bits and ditch the bad bits (and there are LOTS of bad bits, like genocide, slavery and torture).
briantheliberal says2015-05-08T03:47:45.8876992-05:00
Congratulations AndyHood! You pointed out the fundamental flaws in the "religious freedom" argument. That was my entire point in making this poll, and you finally got it. Now when you finally realize that I was being facetious, and that was the context in which I addressing in this poll to begin with, let me know.
AndyHood says2015-05-08T04:07:41.8521925-05:00
Well, thanks for wasting everybody's time by trying to being inappropriately funny (that's what "facetious" means). I challenge whether you were, in fact, being funny; but I guess that's just too subjective. If you were trying to prove that the *system* of "I claim this religious freedom" cannot work because of conflicts, would you not have been better off to point to the principle of "you're free to do anything as long as you're not hurting others" to demonstrate that your desire (for gay marriage) hurts nobody but their desire (to be allowed to practice homophobic prejudice) damages the lives of many innocent people? That seems like a more sensible tack than your barely facetious mess of a statement. BTW, I was fighting against religions getting a free pass before you were a glint in the milkman's eye!
briantheliberal says2015-05-08T04:35:10.1828290-05:00
AndyHood, I didn't "waste everybody's time" you were just confused to get it the first time, because you apparently didn't bother reading the title and small description under the title. I even tried explaining it and for some reason you chose to disregard everything I said for no reason. This poll was mainly targeted towards people who oppose gay marriage but support religious freedom laws that allow others to discriminate against gay people, and expose their hypocrisy. I was obviously speaking based on the context of religious freedom, and you took it to a level that it wasn't intended and assumed that I was arguing for it, even though I said multiple times that I was referring to the context of the situation described above. The description doesn't say "Same sex marriage should be legal because of my religion" it says "using the same logic, my religion allows/requires gay people to get married so same sex marriage should be legal in all 50 states to accommodate my beliefs". That same logic is referring to religious freedom laws. I was asking, if people can use "religious freedom" as an excuse to justify discrimination against gay people, the same should apply to someone who's beliefs accept gay marriage.
briantheliberal says2015-05-08T04:38:49.8648454-05:00
Andy, You do know what hypothetical situations are right?
Stefy says2015-05-08T05:30:52.4788784-05:00
No offense but this is a stupid argument. The whole point is that the law shouldnt be decided by any religion and should just make rights available to everyone. Religious freedom doesnt mean you get to have laws that follow your religion it means they protect your religion. Inknow your not completely serious but this is a horrible direction to take the cause.
briantheliberal says2015-05-08T05:37:37.1636666-05:00
Stefy, "The whole point is that the law shouldn't be decided by any religion" - That is the point. If people use religious freedom to legalize discrimination, then the same would apply to legalizing same sex marriage, or drugs, or even murder. The argument itself is stupid, but I am pointing out the fundamental flaw. I am not supporting the argument itself, I am saying that if you support one thing based on religious freedom, using the same reasoning, everything applies.
briantheliberal says2015-05-08T06:03:49.2616097-05:00
For god's sake... Everyone just watch this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfrZVfbUmqA
AndyHood says2015-05-08T06:36:08.0822778-05:00
Yeah, watched your video link. Quote: "You wanna play the religion game? Okay, let's play the religion game". No, no, no. Do not lower yourself to their level. Grow up, children, stop pulling each other's hair now. I cannot approve of that tactic - that way madness lies. The correct answer is "you may not play 'religious liberty' here", not lowering yourself to their level. Ah, now , you ironically asked me if I knew what a hypothetical situation was; I do, but I suspect that you don't know when or how to use one.
AndyHood says2015-05-08T06:42:23.1734866-05:00
I'd far rather look up the people who were trying to play the Christian religious liberty card and demand the right to force them to stone their children to death for disobedience, based on as stupid a literal interpretation of Bronze Age musings as they would have to use to justify their claims.
AndyHood says2015-05-08T06:50:19.0300317-05:00
Anyway, have you listened to your own video? It agrees (around 3 mins) that "you cannot play that game" - my problem, you see, is that you came on and literally did play that game... Without it being apparent that your tongue was in your cheek... I so want to make an inappropriate joke here, but that would be out of order, so I'll leave it at that hint.
tajshar2k says2015-05-08T08:57:38.1635236-05:00
Wouldn't religious freedom only apply to one person only? Like if a Christian cake baker refuses to bake a cake for a gay couple.
AndyHood says2015-05-08T12:13:41.4674567-05:00
@tajshar2k Golly, that was a silly situation, wasn't it (the baker)? I don't see why refusing to trade based on prejudice should be an allowed freedom. We'd all be up in arms if a business refused to serve people based on their skin colour, would we not?
jaksunmadness says2015-05-10T21:21:43.2929986-05:00
You can always have your gay marriage anywhere at anytime. What you think you will get arrested at the gay church you get wed at? Jesus Christ you homos are so dumb. If you mean force Pastafarianism and the acceptance of gay marriage down are throats by law that is dictatorship and fascist. Bakers that refuse to bake a wedding cake for homos is in fact their religious right as they do not want to be aiding the sin of homosexuality. Who are you to prevent Christians from being saved from eternal brimstone and damnation? Jesus the conservatives were right about you liberals trying to turn the government into a tyrannical all controlling state.
Midnight1131 says2015-05-11T18:18:24.5139258-05:00
The separation of church and state should automatically override these nonsensical religious freedom laws. More often than not, religious freedom is just an excuse to allow people to be bigots.
BIGC says2015-05-12T17:31:00.3608458-05:00
Petersmith.... Where do you live? Do you have internet? I will assume you do since you posted that comment. Did you know that with out capitalism there would be no internet? No cell phones, no microwaves, we would be living in a world far different then we are now. Capitalism drives innovation, change, and new products. There are hundreds of examples around the world were we take capitalism out... And there is no innovation. They fall for behind the rest of the world. As for this poll, People have the right not so serve you because you are gay or lesbian. They also have the right to not serve you if you are black or white or for any other reason on the face of the world. ITS CALLED FREEDOM!

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