Should a church face legal consequences for refusing to perform a same-sex marriage?

Posted by: Mathgeekjoe

Made this poll just for a comparison to another poll.

  • Yes, it should be a crime

  • No, religious freedom should be preserved

12% 4 votes
88% 29 votes
  • It's against every religion to be homosexual. They shouldn't have to be forced to do something that is counter to their faith.

  • A *crime*? This has to be a complete joke. Every person has religious freedom, and just because a church believes in the universal definition of marriage that has only recently changed over the last few decades does not mean they should be thrown in jail.

  • Should a Muslim be forced to sell bacon? And if he doesn't, should he face legal consequences. Should Muslims be forced to participate in a Christian marriage. If they do not should we press legal charges?

    Posted by: Hunts
  • Definitely not. Most religions are homophobic, ditto for most of the denominations and sects withing them. If a church deems it to be unacceptable to perform a gay marriage then they should not be forced to do it, it's against the principle of separation of church and state.

  • Freedom of association.

  • Don't push your morals on them and make them do something that is against their religion. That's a threat to their freedom of religion.

    Posted by: Dilara
  • It's not the church's fault. It's the fault of either the government or the people that perform bigotry.

  • If someone doesn't believe in something, you can't force your opinions onto them.

  • That would be discrimination against an entire religion.

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(Maximum 900 words)
briantheliberal says2015-04-10T20:36:56.8895076-05:00
How many times are you going to post the same poll?
Mathgeekjoe says2015-04-10T20:37:36.3567486-05:00
It isn't the same poll, it is a comparison poll.
Mathgeekjoe says2015-04-10T20:39:16.6784193-05:00
The pictures are the same though.
TBR says2015-04-10T20:58:32.5693902-05:00
WOOPS!!! Clicked way to fast
Mathgeekjoe says2015-04-10T20:59:07.1522702-05:00
I was wondering that. Lol
TBR says2015-04-10T21:00:27.9915705-05:00
The answer is NO! Churches are not NOW nor will they EVER be forced to preform any service they don't want to based on religion. That is, if they stop mixing religion with COMMERCE. Keep this trend going, and separation becomes meaningless. In that case, it will be their own undoing.
Mathgeekjoe says2015-04-10T21:01:32.1603896-05:00
I was just seeing how many people consider it unmoral vs criminal.
TBR says2015-04-10T21:01:44.9136912-05:00
I attempted to comment on the vote, noticed the incorrect choice, clicked on X and DDO did its thing. Sorry.
TBR says2015-04-10T21:02:18.8742381-05:00
The distinction is... Well, it is VERY real.
Mathgeekjoe says2015-04-10T21:03:09.3608826-05:00
TBR, votes can be change if I remember correctly.
TBR says2015-04-10T21:06:09.7965972-05:00
Damn straight that worked. Never tried before.
Mathgeekjoe says2015-04-10T21:06:36.0040932-05:00
I think I am going to do another non serious poll next.
TBR says2015-04-10T21:07:19.2106907-05:00
OK. But nothing that swims. No lasers. No weapons.
Mathgeekjoe says2015-04-10T21:09:08.0022809-05:00
And no death, I want to do a poll on which is worse death by paper cuts (bleed to death) or paperwork (paperwork till you are brain dead.) But that is too grim, and I need to do some poll that isn't violent.
TBR says2015-04-10T21:12:49.5665636-05:00
I think paper-cuts juxtaposed with meetings in some way.
Mathgeekjoe says2015-04-10T21:43:28.3723265-05:00
Unicorns vs Pegasus.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-04-10T21:44:36.7894311-05:00
Pegacorn of course.
Dilara says2015-04-10T22:35:52.9337905-05:00
Should Mislims be forced to cook pork and should Hindus be forced to slaughter cows? Of course not!
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-04-10T22:43:06.1375012-05:00
@Dilara Only in America ...
briantheliberal says2015-04-11T06:56:01.4108699-05:00
Dilara, if Muslims feel uncomfortable serving pork, they wouldn't open a restaurant that has pork as a menu option, or they won't get a job that requires them to be exposed to pork. It's that simple.
GainWisdom says2015-04-11T07:41:53.3539469-05:00
@breatheliberal: If a homosexual couple feels uncomfortable with a religious marriage ceremony they should go to the courthouse and get married there.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-04-11T08:37:54.3319790-05:00
They have the capability to serve pork, the capability to serve pork eaters, with any restaurant equipment. Who are they to deny a particular service just because of religious beliefs? Who are churches to deny a particular service either? Right?
GainWisdom says2015-04-11T14:58:02.7201950-05:00
FreedomforEquality: I don't understand what you are trying to say? Are you asking who they"church" are to deny service? Well, they are individuals with certain beliefs that believe homosexual behavior is sinful. Why should homosexuals interfere with other individuals values and belief systems?
Dilara says2015-04-11T18:14:26.6690859-05:00
And the restraunt owned by Muslims shouldn't be forced to serve pork by the government. No one should be forced to take part in something against their religion especially of it's their own or private business or church. It's their business.
Mathgeekjoe says2015-04-11T18:15:02.6002086-05:00
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-04-13T14:46:52.7395637-05:00
Same. Yes I completely agree.
TBR says2015-04-13T14:53:17.3009029-05:00
@Dilara - "And the restraunt owned by Muslims shouldn't be forced to serve pork by the government" and that has nothing to do with these laws. Lets say they DO serve pork. Someone walk in and want's some of what they serve. They can not refuse AND GET PROTECTION FROM LITIGATION from the government in doing so.
Mathgeekjoe says2015-04-13T14:55:39.9569138-05:00
She was just making a comment on beliefs, she says one group shouldn't be force to do something that go against their morals. The quickest example that came to mind to her was muslims being force to serve pork.
TBR says2015-04-13T14:57:24.5447980-05:00
I just jumped back in, and have not caught back up.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-04-13T15:25:34.7223521-05:00
"Lets say they DO serve pork." is like saying the church does serve up gay marriage. Thats the example. If they dont serve up gay marriage ... Gays cannot demand that they do. Its not on the menu ... Go somewhere else.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-04-13T15:28:03.6545739-05:00
And before you go trying to associate it with straight marriage ... The religious beliefs are enough to make the separation. Kosher pickles are pickles too. Jews have a right to take preference to one over another if they wish ... Without being seen as offending the non-kosher pickle makers out there.
TBR says2015-04-13T15:28:11.1104141-05:00
@FreedomBeforeEquality - Its just the wrong argument. That's what I am attempting to get at. NO. They are not forced to offer things that they do not serve. They, however, must serve what they DO offer to everyone or face ligation unprotected by local/state/federal law.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-04-13T15:28:59.3218016-05:00
They can bee seen as two very different things in the religious world, even though they are effectively the same thing.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-04-13T15:31:02.2493544-05:00
Ok. But if they are facing litigation for gay marriage as it stands ... I can assure you they didnt do a different gay marriage just last week that the plantiffs are referencing in their grievance. They want them to serve something they aren't serving. Thats the problem.
TBR says2015-04-13T15:31:45.0774529-05:00
Let me give you an example that may satisfy you a bit. (I hate the cake example, but I am using it for YOU). I make cakes. Wedding cakes. I make custom cakes based on customers requirements. I do NOT make the little figures that you put ON a cake. I choose to NOT stock figures of men holding other mens hands. I must make the cake, as I offer specialized cakes, but I do NOT have to provide the figures. Get it?
TBR says2015-04-13T15:35:36.9570015-05:00
Further. When someone sues me for NOT making the cake, I don't get the protection of the state (laws). The simple "I don't stock 'this' is not discrimination." The denial of services that I DO OFFER IS denial of services that you open up to litigation.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-04-13T15:36:40.0941629-05:00
How is choosing what they stock any different from choosing what sort of talent they pour into a custom work? Creativity is their stock. Its what their selling. Its their product, their store, their rules. I think if you enter into an agreement where the vendor has some level of creative play, you are at their mercy really. Think of it like getting a tatoo. I dont think a tatoo artist is going to be held in contempt for choosing not to draw a Swastika on your forehead. Maybe they have some reservations there.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-04-13T15:36:55.9745557-05:00
TBR says2015-04-13T15:41:24.8285244-05:00
"How is choosing what they stock any different from choosing what sort of talent they pour into a custom work?". Simple. The service you are offering must be offered to all without discrimination (legally) as defined in our constitution and business laws. You are NOT required to provide services (or items) that are demanded. If a cake is the same regardless of the "intended use" you may not choose who you serve that cake to.
TBR says2015-04-13T15:42:14.6134012-05:00
** FIX : "You are NOT required to provide services (or items) that are demanded." = that you do not offer.
TBR says2015-04-13T15:44:24.7594481-05:00
I come in to a cake shop and ask you to build me a custom plane. Not covered by discrimination laws. You have a business that makes custom planes, I walk in and you refuse to make me a plane because I am orange - we don't serve orange people. Not protected.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-04-14T08:45:39.0253456-05:00
But youre generalizing it when you say "custom plane" or "custom cake". Its specifically a gay wedding cake. They arent not serving you because you are a gay person per say. A straight person could go in to purchase the cake for you and the bakery would still have a problem with what you want written on it. They don't make gay cakes. Its not the people they are discriminating against. The straight person would be denied the same service if they wanted something homosexual customized on it.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-04-14T08:46:32.5553185-05:00
How is that not fair?
enragedclam15 says2015-08-08T00:25:53.5486002Z
It is the constitution

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