Should Abortion Be Legal

Posted by: Dabate101

Abortion Should be Illegal we need to respect the idea that even inside the womb a baby is a living thing.

  • No

  • Yes

50% 18 votes
50% 18 votes
  • Abortion needs to be Illegal. We are defending life by Stopping it. Even a non-developed fetus is a living organism and it must be protected!!

  • Its still a human. You may say that it has no emotional complexity, but you could say the same of a newborn. You may also say that it has no consciousness, but there is no way to prove that. If you are for abortion and against infanticide, your beliefs contradict each other. If you are for abortion and infanticide, you are a psychopath.

    Posted by: Bob13
  • Why do people not understand that abortion is killing? Not only does it harm the little baby, it traumatizes the mother, and hurts her if she had given birth anyway (especially if she had used the abortion pill). Therefore abortions need to be stopped.

  • Sorry, but having an abortion is killing life. Argue all you want about the actual fetus (it's not conscious, doesn't feel pain, blah blah) you are still destroying a potential human being. Most abortions usually boil down to the mother not wanting to own up to their mistake, or does not believe they could take care of the child. But there are so many better options that killing it--adoption, for example. The number of sterile couples is rising in America, and more and more people are wanting to adopt. Abortion is simply the "easy fix" for a person's mistakes, chosen because many people see it as the only choice when they don't want a child, or because they don't want to deal with the repercussions of a pregnancy.

    Posted by: Kamagi
  • Again, we as a species do not value life, this can be seen by the wide accessibility of anti fungals and bug zappers. What we do value is consciousness and emotional complexity, both of which the fetus does not possess until very late in the pregnancy.

  • i honestly don't care. The majority of aborted babies are minorities who would be coming from impoverished black families who would probably not be making much benefit to society. I'm sorry, but thats just the case

    Posted by: USN276
  • Abortion should be legal, but that has to be a draw somewhere. We cannot have the same girl coming back time and time again to have an abortion simply because she cannot own up to her mistakes( their mistakes) . If the parents think before they do; there can be no one to stop them from making that decision of abortion. However, it cannot be used as a crutch for people who care not for their actions and are not willing to think about other options.

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Dabate101 says2015-09-28T22:14:25.0759952Z
Your comments don't even make sense. USN276 you are creating racial tension in saying that black people have no effect or benefit to society. Does that mean your against martin luther king jr?
USN276 says2015-09-29T00:51:37.1095083Z
I was clear about what i said Dabate. The majority of these aborted black babies come from crappy families and the kids were pretty much descended to not be successful from the start. Sorry, but that's the grim fact
TBR says2015-09-29T01:19:44.5315581Z
Well, you actually said "minority" and "black" are "most". That is not true.
USN276 says2015-09-29T02:10:25.5612982Z
@TBR well speaking per capita, blacks have the most abortions
TBR says2015-09-29T02:19:07.8116814Z
Thats better.
briantheliberal says2015-09-29T02:26:21.3529719Z
USN276, So you "don't care" about aborted fetuses because they are mostly "black" and "impoverished" AND you think blacks or minorities aren't "making much benefit to society"... Let me guess, you are conservative and also think you're not racist? Am I right?
briantheliberal says2015-09-29T02:31:02.3091709Z
Ladies and Gentlemen, it's comments made by people like USN276 why movements like "Black Lives Matter" exist. You devalue and discard the lives of black people by turning a poll about abortion into a black issue, bringing up race when it is convenient for you to make insensitive and racially charged statements about black people. You literally projected your own racist sentiments onto an poll that made no indication of race being the topic of discussion. Nice job.
Dabate101 says2015-09-29T02:44:19.6832597Z
Briantheliberal. I totally agree with you. USN276 is competing with blacks and creating racial tension in order to Justify abortion. That is simply the wrong way to think and that is exactly why ALL LIVES are in danger!!
USN276 says2015-09-29T02:56:56.5477101Z
@briantheliberal what a surprise I see you here. And what a surprise with you putting words in my mouth. Majority of aborted babies come from impoverished families that couldn't raise a child for s#%t. Economically and socially speaking, with these babies being aborted, it isn't going to affect anything negatively. If you think i'm stating that black babies are of less of value, that's not the case. And i will assure you, i have black friends to prove that
USN276 says2015-09-29T02:56:58.8071939Z
WTF
USN276 says2015-09-29T02:57:06.6695435Z
My comment got deleted
USN276 says2015-09-29T02:59:58.8778396Z
Ok, let me just give the abridged version of what i said. I'm not saying black babies are of less value. I'm saying that these babies being aborted is not affecting the country in a negative way because majority of these babies come from poor impoverished mothers who can't raise a baby for s%&t in the first place. Chances are, if the children were to grow up, they'd be living sh$%$y lives and probably end up being incarcerated for crimes. I'm NOT saying they are of less value, but statistically speaking, the odds of them having successful lives are slim. (FYI, I have black friends)
TBR says2015-09-29T03:01:38.3292021Z
" impoverished black families who would probably not be making much benefit to society" - Well, that seems like... Well what you said, but your black friends can vouch for how cool you are, so, all good.
briantheliberal says2015-09-29T03:15:57.5658949Z
USN276, "i honestly don't care. The majority of aborted babies are minorities who would be coming from impoverished black families who would probably not be making much benefit to society." - I didn't put these words in your mouth, this is exactly what you said. And using the "I have (imaginary) black friends" excuse doesn't help you here either nor does it change what you actually said. Your comment DID devalue the lives of aborted black fetuses. And not only that, you still brought up the concept of race in a place where it was NOT the topic of discussion. You said impoverished BLACK families. You brought up and emphasized that you were speaking specifically about BLACK people. So you can stop making excuses for yourself, you have now exposed yourself for the racist you are. Congratulations.
briantheliberal says2015-09-29T03:22:33.2769583Z
But hey I wouldn't be so hard on you, lots of conservatives like yourself make the occasional slip of racist bullsh&t now and then. That's what happens when you harbor these attitudes subconciously and pretend they don't exist. They always show up somehow somewhere, and here was your moment to shine. Now be an adult and own up to what you said instead of making pathetic excuses for yourself.
Dabate101 says2015-09-29T03:23:12.2465085Z
Briantheliberal. I believe that ALL LIVES MATTER. Whether you blue, purple, white, or black, ALL LIVES MATTER. I think that there is misunderstanding between both of you and that the racial tension that has been formed is dangerous. ALL LIVES MATTER. This is the primary statement that must be understood in todays society.
briantheliberal says2015-09-29T03:25:58.9982397Z
Dabate101, Good for you. When ALL LIVES are systemically oppressed and devalued based on race in this country, then I will consider your position, but that isn't the case. So I will continue to say BLACK LIVES MATTER until they actually do, because as of right now they do not.
TBR says2015-09-29T03:29:38.8782465Z
Brian - now now. Don't be too harsh. I have conservative friends, they are cool with me point out the fact its a party of racists. Trust me.
briantheliberal says2015-09-29T03:43:04.2482676Z
TBR, they are? My conservative friends don't even invite me to their Klan rallies... Sorry "confederate flag rallies."
TBR says2015-09-29T03:49:54.2508186Z
It part of my white privilege package Brian. I mean, what good is the deluxe American package without excluding... Well you.
briantheliberal says2015-09-29T04:29:43.9035219Z
TBR, it all makes sense to me now.
tajshar2k says2015-09-29T13:13:16.8779369Z
Ya, cause white people never abort babies. Your logic is mind-blowing.
jhdhjdfajh says2015-09-29T18:29:09.8757003Z
I agree with Brian here in the fact that yes USN is harboring a lot of racial oppression in his very hatred centered mind. But the Black Lives Matter campaign shouldn't be the title. If you want to include oppression by race use minority lives matter. It includes the oppression of all minorities Black, Hispanic, Asian oriented. All of these are oppressed much more than the Caucasian race is.
TheHappyReaper says2015-09-29T18:42:58.8925861Z
Everybody dies. People die today. People will die tomorrow. People died yesterday. Instead of worrying about lumps of tissue, find ways to help starving children. Find ways to help children with deadly diseases. Adopt a child if you want to give them a better shot at life.
briantheliberal says2015-09-29T19:54:13.0250101Z
Jhdhjdfajh, I understand your point but the movement was started by black people on behalf of issues affecting them and their communities. They shouldn't be obligated to include every oppressed group under the sun, especially when they are not all affected by the same issues in the same way. You don't go to a Breast Cancer rally or charity event and tell people "You know other cancers matter too" "What about prostate cancer or lung cancer?" because like any movement, being broad and lacking specification accomplishes nothing.
TBR says2015-09-29T19:57:15.7128193Z
@briantheliberal - Nicely said. Funny part is, I was going down this path too. Really. Like almost the exact same thing. Glad you said it rather than me (and you did a better job)
briantheliberal says2015-09-29T20:28:01.7835862Z
TBR, there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding and propaganda about what the movement actually stands for and why it is so important. I guess I have become accustomed to correcting people.
TBR says2015-09-29T20:33:46.5794545Z
I am very tired of people OUTSIDE telling a group what they MUST be.
briantheliberal says2015-09-29T20:50:09.9658734Z
TBR, that's pretty much everyday life for people of color.
TBR says2015-09-29T20:55:03.7916158Z
You shouldn't worry about it so much Brian. You should work on bootstraps, and the flag, and... Wait, what was I saying?
tajshar2k says2015-09-29T20:56:19.9975014Z
BLM has a good intention, but I'm not too happy with some of the things they have been doing. They went Bernie Sander's rally and made him leave. Not sure what was that all about, but it doesn't do justice to their cause.
The_Aspiring_Sociologist says2015-09-29T21:03:44.5426519Z
Daggum people chill, I'm black and I don't feel like I'm less than anyone else. Also it's not true that it's mostly blacks get abortions, otherwise in those aborted baby pictures, you would seem more black babies (yes babies, not tissue) than white ones. Just saying, it's equal, it doesn't matter the race.
TBR says2015-09-29T21:05:21.7194988Z
@tajshar2k - I agree completely with that. That display was so bad. Point is still, I have no say in what BLM. If they felt that was good for the cause, that is theirs to decide.
briantheliberal says2015-09-29T21:06:24.2564281Z
Tajshar2k, What have they been doing exactly? Most of them exercise their right to protest peacefully and influence governmental institutions for their cause like every other group in this country. Most of the time when I hear anyone say something negative about it, it's faulty associations, propaganda, and misrepresentation (For example - blaming them for riots and police killings that they had nothing to do with) in attempt to slander the movement itself and what it stands for. As for the Bernie Sanders situation, if you don't know what occurred don't make assumptions about what happened. During his rally, several activists challenged him on his positions regarding police brutality and other issues, he was upset because he felt the criticisms were wrongly directed.
briantheliberal says2015-09-29T21:08:27.2226661Z
And to an extend I do agree that they shouldn't have been that way with Sanders, he is an ally after all. But no group is perfect.
briantheliberal says2015-09-29T21:08:39.6177604Z
Extent*
TBR says2015-09-29T21:10:42.3212641Z
Brian - There are very few times I disagree with a factual account you bring, this one is one of them. The Sanders event was the activists bullying their way onto the stage. Now, it got them a lot of attention, that may be exactly what they wanted, and a good thing, but that's what happened.
tajshar2k says2015-09-29T21:10:49.4879279Z
@TBR But they need to understand, if they are to get any support from non-blacks, by committing actions like that, alot of people will find them to be annoying. Again, I like the movement, but it's turning into one of those Occupy Wall Street protests, where the idea is good, but execution is bad.
TBR says2015-09-29T21:11:53.4475179Z
Brian, you addressed that while I was cross-posting. :)
tajshar2k says2015-09-29T21:12:28.5638928Z
@Brian Correct me if I'm wrong, but somebody took a video of the incident, and I saw this black women just grabbing the mic out of Sander's hand. And telling him to leave. Then people from BLM start chanting.
briantheliberal says2015-09-29T21:12:45.7081829Z
TBR, oh yes I never denied that. What they did was completely uncalled for. I am just saying that is an isolated incident and doesn't represent or justify the denouncement of what the movement actually stands for. Personally I think those people were being disrespectful.
TBR says2015-09-29T21:13:36.8134553Z
@tajshar2k - Who is to say they even need to get white people? Right now it may be enough to just get a good chunk of black people. Look, again, I am not running their show. It is up to them to decide how to operate.
tajshar2k says2015-09-29T21:13:50.7919657Z
Also, I have a question? Is it true members of BLM in Ferguson were robbing stores? I hear this alot.
tajshar2k says2015-09-29T21:14:50.9607800Z
Well not just white. Asian Latino etc... Blacks aren't the majority, so if they get people from all races, there movement will become more popular. That's what I think.
briantheliberal says2015-09-29T21:15:56.3647611Z
There is no evidence of that to my knowledge. But that's what you see a lot on right wing "news" which is mostly just propaganda and attempts to slander a group they disagree with using faulty associations.
TBR says2015-09-29T21:16:32.7352027Z
Do you think they have BLM cards? Official credentials? Any bit of nasty press someone can tar them with serves a purpose. Think about that any time someone wants to associate some action with the group as a cause.
tajshar2k says2015-09-29T21:17:51.8850206Z
@TBR Maybe the guys who robbed were not part of BLM, but I'm very sure the BLM members were the ones who interrupted Bernie Sander's rally.
briantheliberal says2015-09-29T21:18:51.3674393Z
They were the ones who interrupted the Sanders rally, but that was a completely different incident.
TBR says2015-09-29T21:19:04.6353238Z
Its like if every time a gay guy broke-up with his boyfriend we blamed the efforts of those working for SSM.
tajshar2k says2015-09-29T21:19:27.0288107Z
@USN276 Non-Hispanic white women account for 36% of abortions, non-Hispanic black women for 30%, Hispanic women for 25% and women of other races for 9%.
tajshar2k says2015-09-29T21:19:34.9535599Z
http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html
tajshar2k says2015-09-29T21:21:43.1811727Z
It's pretty obvious, you were trying to cause a flamewar. I don't get why you would say that. Pretty pointless. With your logic, we should exterminate every redneck in America, because they are also useless
briantheliberal says2015-09-29T21:21:45.0275261Z
Non-Hispanic black women, and Non-white Hispanic women on average get abortions more because they make up less of the overall population.
briantheliberal says2015-09-29T21:22:40.2355722Z
But yes I agree, his intention was to express his racist sentiments in a place where it wasn't needed.
tajshar2k says2015-09-29T21:24:00.1522600Z
Hispanic white women account for 36% of abortions. Well according to stats, white women get abortions more than black women. He fails badly.
tajshar2k says2015-09-29T21:26:02.9566728Z
Well I guess if you include hispanics also, then the numbers are higher.
briantheliberal says2015-09-29T21:26:50.9731650Z
But you also have to take into account the overall population. Non-Hispanic white women make up around 30% of the U.S. population, while black women make up over 7%.
tajshar2k says2015-09-29T21:27:42.2500363Z
Well thats true.
Dabate101 says2015-09-29T21:39:17.1233820Z
In reality, USN was creating this racial divide which was NOT accurate due to every poll I have looked up. Most polls have around 35% of black, 25% white, and 40% hispanics aborting there babies. I have also discovered that most fetuses are in fact developed and are aborted about 2-3 weeks before delivery. USN's racial activity in fact proved that he was racist and brian, tbr, and I figured that one out a while ago. His words were out of the back of his head and were irrelevant, and obviously had no research behind it. In short his ideas were pulled out of the back of his head.
TBR says2015-09-29T21:42:41.9208692Z
His point was a fail. No Matter how you cut it, it was exactly you think it was.
TBR says2015-09-29T21:43:11.6074789Z
*failure*
TBR says2015-09-29T21:44:03.5177463Z
"fetuses are in fact developed and are aborted about 2-3 weeks before delivery. " WHAT!!!! Are you INSANE!
TBR says2015-09-29T21:44:26.8239969Z
89-92% of all abortions happen during the first trimester, prior to the 13th week of gestation (AGI/CDC). In 2011, 7.3% of all abortions occurred between 14-20 weeks' gestation; 1.4% occurred ≥21 weeks' gestation (CDC)
Dabate101 says2015-09-29T21:44:43.3598909Z
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html. Population of the United States of America including all races.
Dabate101 says2015-09-29T21:46:24.3862434Z
Get your facts right. This is exactly why abortion should be illegal. ITS MURDER!!!
TBR says2015-09-29T21:46:26.1768913Z
@Dabate101 - What does the POPULATION stat have to do with your COMPLETELY wrong information?
Dabate101 says2015-09-29T21:46:55.8512417Z
Can you show me your sources?
TBR says2015-09-29T21:47:59.9502946Z
@Dabate101 - It's not murder. It's legal, not murder.
Dabate101 says2015-09-29T21:48:03.8200060Z
The population stats was not at all for the purpose of our conversation but for a previous one.
tajshar2k says2015-09-29T21:48:21.6815125Z
I'm pro life and pro choice. I would personally tell women not to abort, but it's their choice. Only a insane person will encourage people to abort their fetus. Unless the person was so unfit to be a parent I would 99% of the time say No.
Dabate101 says2015-09-29T21:49:18.1067298Z
Just because its legal does not mean it isn't MURDER!!!
TBR says2015-09-29T21:50:03.1770643Z
http://www.abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics/ When do abortions occure. The source material is the CDC
TBR says2015-09-29T21:51:11.6623813Z
https://www.google.com/search?q=failure&oq=failure&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.213j0j9&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=0&ie=UTF-8#q=define+murder mur·der ˈmərdər/Submit noun 1. The unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.
tajshar2k says2015-09-29T21:52:16.3531872Z
Isn't this kinda what Anti-Gay Marriage people say? The definition says one man and women. I don't think we can use the definition to justify it.
TBR says2015-09-29T21:56:02.2095394Z
No. Not at all. The charge of" murder" is rhetoric to cloud the discussion. "Murder.... Must be bad"
tajshar2k says2015-09-29T21:57:10.0847043Z
I just have a question. If fetuses have heartbeats and can feel things after a certain period, why shouldn't that be considered murder
TBR says2015-09-29T21:57:41.5653025Z
A pro-life person should be able to make the case without resorting to frivolous charges of murder. It is intended to work on an emotional level. SSM is legal today not because of semantics, but because of the same constitution that makes abortion legal (not murder).
TBR says2015-09-29T22:02:15.3459442Z
Because that is the way laws work. Is it murder when you kill someone invading your home and threatening to kill you? No. Murder is predominantly a legal charge.
TBR says2015-09-29T22:03:44.0180494Z
You can say it is "killing a fetus", even "killing a baby" if you have no care for the specificity of words, but that is it. Calling it murder is... Well slanderous.
stargate says2015-09-29T22:50:06.6354862Z
@TBR do you want me to explain my reasons?
Varrack says2015-09-29T22:57:20.9139594Z
TBR is right, whether abortion is murder or not has nothing to do with whether the action itself is just.
TBR says2015-09-29T22:57:26.9667206Z
Explain anything you like, I'm not stopping you
stargate says2015-09-29T23:18:52.1846692Z
Well first off they did the act to have the baby aka the fetus. Okay so there genes are froming together to make an baby from. This baby has there genes it has there DNA. They are alive, if you look up what it means to be alive it matchs all of the requirements. It is just one of our stages of life, it has there dna, it can grow and develop into an human being. In my opinion every human being has basis human rights, and that still grows for when you are a fetus. What abortion is doing is killing this baby before they have grown up, before they have seen the world. It is just wrong and barbaric. It needs to stop now rather then later.
TBR says2015-09-29T23:19:29.8437934Z
You have no right to force a woman to gestate a child against her will. You have no qualification to call her a murder or whore (as seen on this thread). You have qualification to supplant her decisions with your own. If you think it is killing, I understand that. That fact alone does not make it murder or even wrong.
stargate says2015-09-30T00:33:11.3120200Z
I do have to right, just like you have the right to say hitting someone is wrong or killing someone is wrong. I have every right, they did the act now they do not want the kid? Well then they shouldn't have done it. It is there kid, they should let the kid be born and if they do not want the kid then allow the kid to be adopted.
stargate says2015-09-30T00:36:10.6374685Z
TBR The fetus grows into a human, the fetus is alive, the fitus has there genes and aging matchs every qualification of being alive. So how is killing an fetus not murder? They are alive it is just they are not outsilde there mother yet. I am sorry sense you do not understand my reasoning by the looks of it. But every human being has some basic human right in my opinion and this violents them. It should be outlawed.
TBR says2015-09-30T00:36:48.6553996Z
You have a right to say it is wrong, you DON'T have the right to force her to gestate the fetus. Look at what I said.
stargate says2015-09-30T00:39:33.7164496Z
It may not be murder TBR but it is unacceptable. It just shows how we put ourselves over others human beings. That is there kid if they like it or not. Killing it is wrong, they did the act of sex. If they didn't want they kid then they should have uses an organ that we have called the brain and some common sense. It is not my fault they didn't use there brian in that one night, it is not my fault they did it yet they can not afford to keep care of her. There are sometimes that I have to draw the line on, and this is one of them.
TBR says2015-09-30T00:41:39.0393838Z
"The fetus grows into a human" - Yes || "the fetus is alive" - Yes || "the fitus has there" - Yes" || "genes and aging matchs every qualification of being alive." - Yes. A fetus is alive. || "So how is killing an fetus not murder?" - there is lots of killing that is not murder. You condone lots of it. || "They are alive it is just they are not outsilde there mother yet." - Yes. They are dependent violating body autonomy. || "I am sorry sense you do not understand my reasoning by the looks of it." - I get it, I just don't agree with it. || "every human being has some basic human right in my opinion and this violents them. It should be outlawed." - Its about balancing rights.
stargate says2015-09-30T00:42:23.8811588Z
TBR she did the act, if she didn't want the baby then she shouldn't have been in bed with an man getting it if you know what I mean. I feel zero sympathy for them. I have every right to say so, because if you do not voice your thoughts and opinions on every matter then you have zero impact on what is happening, and have no right to be mad at it due to not speaching out.
stargate says2015-09-30T00:45:09.6590341Z
TBR I understand you, but I can not agree. It is wrong it needs to be stoped. We are an civilized nation, and this just proves how messed up some people are. It is there kid, killing it just breaks part of me insilde.
TBR says2015-09-30T00:45:59.5481764Z
S1ut-shaming is not a convincing reason to force a woman to gestate a fetus is violation of her body autonomy.
stargate says2015-09-30T00:46:23.2300489Z
TBR I can respect you on how you justify and at least know where the other silde is coming from.
TBR says2015-09-30T00:47:30.7773916Z
Forcing women to gestate breaks my heart. A civilized nation does not force unwanted children on a women because you dislike the choice.
stargate says2015-09-30T00:51:36.0784651Z
TBR the fact is she did the act, that is her kid. Now is the kid alive-yes is the kid human-yes. So that is her kid and that is the kid, so that kid has basic human rights. Now this violates them in my opinion, now if she didn't want the kid then why did she have sex? This needs to stop, killing an unborn baby is still killing an baby. You may be able to turn an blind eye but I can't.
tajshar2k says2015-09-30T00:52:05.2822267Z
So TBR, if you had the choice, would you try convince somebody to abort? Or would you convince them not to?
stargate says2015-09-30T00:54:15.5135311Z
TBR killing the baby violates there human rights, they are as it is pure, what I mean by that is they have never done anything bad. They are humans, and without them ever seeing our world they are put to death due to there mother not wanting a kid. Killing the kid is wrong.
TBR says2015-09-30T00:56:06.5096656Z
@tajshar2k - Convince one way or the other is the wrong word. I would (and do) support a women regardless of her choice.
TBR says2015-09-30T00:58:51.5608396Z
@stargate - "killing the baby violates there human rights," and denying the choice denies the right of the woman to control her body. Just like someone attacking you, you have the right to defend your own body with deadly force. || " they are as it is pure, what I mean by that is they have never done anything bad." - that is not a requisite, however, they are not welcome within the woman's body. || "They are humans" - That has been agreed. || " and without them ever seeing our world they are put to death due to there mother not wanting a kid. Killing the kid is wrong." - pure emotion
tajshar2k says2015-09-30T01:00:13.9148233Z
But, if a women wanted to make a decision based on what you said, what would you say? This is a theoretical question. Whatever you say, she will do.
TBR says2015-09-30T01:01:19.0304755Z
If a women wanted an abortion, I would not talk her out of it. Is that what you are asking?
tajshar2k says2015-09-30T01:04:55.3442353Z
Ya.
TBR says2015-09-30T01:05:16.2633838Z
I asked in another poll in a slightly different way. Do you think you don't know any women who have had an abortion?
Varrack says2015-09-30T01:08:01.6399237Z
I'm sure I know many people who do things that are wrong...Whether I know them or not doesn't change my belief about whether or not it is wrong.
TBR says2015-09-30T01:11:30.0474256Z
@Varrack - It's a very good answer Varrack. I only ask to get men (young men especially) thinking about the question. Their mothers, sisters, aunts. It is a very strong possibility that someone as close to them as immediate family has had to make this difficult choice. I think some of the very negative words used would change if they thought about who the issue effects - other than just the fetus. Much less chance of the s1ut-shaming I see on this thread.
stargate says2015-09-30T01:11:59.1263848Z
TBR they are still human, that is there kid. I will not sit by and watch kids die due to abortions and do nothing. TBR they aging did the act, so they should suck up. TBR it is morally wrong. It is killing babies, if they do not want to keep the baby then have them adopted. But babies even in the fetus are human and I rule them more valuable then if the woman wants to have some pain delivering the kid. To many kids die every day from abortions. Both augments have good reasons. But I value life, and this is the circle of life and natural.
tajshar2k says2015-09-30T01:12:48.0812880Z
I honestly do not know a person in my relations who have had an abortion.
stargate says2015-09-30T01:15:30.7912552Z
@tajshar2k Nither do I.
TBR says2015-09-30T01:18:58.1139160Z
I doubt that is true for the either of the two of you. 1:3 (actual number slightly less). If you know a few adult women, there is a near certainty you DO. Perhaps if you didn't use terms like "murder" talking about abortion would not be so taboo.
tajshar2k says2015-09-30T01:20:02.1057058Z
Seriously doubt it. But you could be right. I know one person who had a miscarriage but that's it.
stargate says2015-09-30T01:23:19.0966609Z
@TBR Well let me rephase that, I know people yet I do not have the information to say they have had or haven't had an abortion. I have for one never asked, I mean have you seen anyone walk up to people any say hey have you ever had an abortion? I mean it is just an thing you do not ask. Now I would if I really wanted to know.
Varrack says2015-09-30T01:24:17.6913877Z
I doubt I know anyone who's had one. I don't think it would change my opinion on it if I did.
TBR says2015-09-30T01:24:46.1404852Z
"they are still human," - I don't know how many times I have to say yes to this. YES it is a human fetus. || "that is there kid" - Well its their fetus. Words have meaning, you choose 'kid' and the like to play on emotions. You would not call me a "baby" that is because I am not. A fetus is a fetus . || " I will not sit by and watch kids die due to abortions and do nothing." - Well get out there and work on it. If you feel its wrong, do something. || "they aging did the act, so they should suck up." - This is s1ut-shaming. Just stop it. || "it is morally wrong." - No... No it isn't. That is opinion from the both of us. || "It is killing babies," - Fetuses, but call it babies if you insist on being so loose. || "if they do not want to keep the baby then have them adopted." - They can also abort. Choice! || "But babies even in the fetus are human and I rule them more valuable then if the woman wants to have some pain delivering the kid." - That is your choice. When you decide to gestate a fetus, you feel free to do that with YOUR body. || "But I value life" - Think I don't?
stargate says2015-09-30T01:25:38.6663485Z
TBR we all have different sets of values and morals. Some of us value some things higher then others. Even though we may not all agree this dosn't mean we do not have the right to force to do something and to takk about it.
TBR says2015-09-30T01:29:18.6113386Z
Right, and I value the choice of a women to control her body. I value that choice over a life of a fetus. That is without argument. You are not on moral high-ground whatever you might think. Pro-life is NOT necessarily more "moral".
stargate says2015-09-30T01:35:21.5158123Z
TBR you clime is not more moral, and yes my claim is. Sense it is trying to protect the lives of the children the next generation. You have your reasons I have mine.
TBR says2015-09-30T01:38:07.1575510Z
I am protecting the rights of actual women. How do you make the argument that you imposing your choice in violation of another's right is more moral? It, in my opinion, is not.
TBR says2015-09-30T01:40:16.4213224Z
Lets go back to the 1:3. The actual is ~30%. So, again, do you really think you know no s1uts or murders? None in your close family? No current or ex-girlfriends?
stargate says2015-09-30T01:40:44.7691696Z
Your claim
TBR says2015-09-30T01:43:04.1422498Z
"Your claim" - What one? The moral issue, or the stats one?
stargate says2015-09-30T01:43:04.2534467Z
Because usually the women will not die having the kid, yes there will be pain but it is only natural. While an abortion is killing the baby only to make the women feel better. I value life more.
stargate says2015-09-30T01:44:56.0563301Z
TBR I did that as an spelling fix, yeah I misspelled due to one I am tired, and two I keep on jumbing between threads.
TBR says2015-09-30T01:45:32.2670983Z
"I value life more." - so you say (when convenient). I value the body autonomy of the woman. Yes, OVER the rights of a fetus. Odd question, but I will ask. Anyone OTHER than me seen a fetus?
TBR says2015-09-30T01:46:17.9447767Z
Has anyone other than...
stargate says2015-09-30T01:46:36.1316886Z
Basically I seen the kid being aborted as an unnecessary death, I value life and that fetus is a baby.
stargate says2015-09-30T01:49:19.1672435Z
Well.....I value the life of the fetus more, the baby is part of the new generation. I am sorry but I will value the life of a fetus over the mother. Though aging most mothers do not die from having kids.
TBR says2015-09-30T01:52:29.4347206Z
"I value life" - In this discussion you do, others not so much. || "and that fetus is a baby." - it is a fetus. Call it whatever you like, but seriously, would it make any sense for me to call you a baby? If not, why not?
stargate says2015-09-30T12:32:37.9415268Z
Well here is why there are certain stages of human life, there is the phase where we call them babies, then toddlers, then the years you are a kid, the your preteen year, then your teen years, then you adult year and so on. So whike you can call me a "baby" it simply is not true.
stargate says2015-09-30T12:33:13.3844996Z
Spelling fix while.
TBR says2015-09-30T14:36:22.2505382Z
Exactly. What is a human in the womb?
stargate says2015-09-30T14:50:55.5272540Z
TBR it is an baby due to happening yet to be a toddler.
TBR says2015-09-30T16:48:38.3458700Z
@stargate - Use the term if you like, the point is well established. The reason for using these terms is to play on the emotion of the argument. You are having a baby, you don't have a baby yet. Again, the point of tossing in soft terms is to play to peoples emotions about a very emotional subject. The subject is tough enough without this.
stargate says2015-09-30T16:57:13.5638625Z
@TBR In my opinion it is an baby. While I can somewhat agree with that statement it dosn't change anything.
TBR says2015-09-30T17:57:58.9483647Z
Right, it didn't change anything, but you insist on the word a number of times - implying it has special meaning. Baby's start at age zero by all definition. You pick the word to bring in emotion.
stargate says2015-09-30T18:40:31.6442386Z
@TBR even if I do for the reason, it dose not change the fact the the fetus is still an baby.
TBR says2015-09-30T19:23:50.0270220Z
You did it again. "fetus is still an baby". Its NOT. You coincided to that above, right? Baby, Infant, toddler, fetus, these are words with meaning, right? Baby is a term that starts at age zero (birth). Fetus is the term while the human in utero.
TBR says2015-09-30T20:15:34.4404848Z
@stargate - Forget about the fetus for a moment. Forget about it all. No trick, just a question. Is it moral for me to force you to use your body against your will?
MizzEnigma says2015-10-01T17:45:43.1406926Z
This was an interesting read. (Read all of it.) I'm pro-choice. Baby and fetus is part of a spectrum. Both are human, but separate things. You can point at a baby and call it a baby, but you cannot call it a fetus. There's a difference between them. One is before birth, the other is after. It's the same thing with colors. It's undeniable that red and yellow are colors, but they are not the same color. It is completely separate. You cannot point at yellow and call it red since yellow is not red.

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