Should people that rely on a book for morals, etc be aloud on DDO?

Posted by: reece

Comments would be great.

  • No they shouldn't bo on DDO

  • Yes they should stay on DDO

7% 1 votes
93% 14 votes
  • Everyone depends on a book for something... Some depend on Friedman for economics, books for history, books for politics, books for morals, books for social issues.

  • I would rather have someone read a book for ideas on morals that watch television shows for the same purpose. If we are honest, we learn about morals from someone other than ourselves, and then think and expand on those ideas others implant in our minds. And books are likely the most refined and intellectual way to learn something. Besides, Nicomachean Ethics is such a good read! Plus, banning people who were morally inspired by books is disturbingly similar to Fahrenheit 451.

  • I think it is interesting that atheists are demanding that Christians show more tolerance, but atheists (in general, there are a few great exceptions) cannot tolerate even the idea of tolerating Christians. Besides, if we all agreed perfectly, we would have a harder time having as interesting or as educational discussions.

  • It's called Freedom of Speech. Most countries honor the concept. So, why shouldn't DDO? Does religion intimidate you? A Believer can tell you what his/her morals are based on. What does a Non-Believer base theirs on? I'd love an answer to that one, because I've asked it repeatedly. Yet, I never seem to get a response. Hmmm ...

  • All of the greatest and worst ideas in history, can be found in books.

  • people have religions that are a part of their culture and life. What if a teach had a rule not to lie, steal, hit or shout in her classroom. then she puts it down in a book. what do you do then? just stop following the life morals that are common sense just because they are in a book. If everyone went upon self instinct instead of morals many of the posts and letters and things said everyday would be nasty and hate-filled or just plain dumb.

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reece says2014-07-22T23:05:51.7530057-05:00
@donald.Keller you shouldn't depend on anything for morals, etc.You should go by instinct.If you don't understand, i'll elaborate for you.@E_Pluribus_Unum I assume you're talking about social morality, are you not? @mishapqueen look what Christianity/the Catholic church did 500+ years ago ;) at least atheists don't burn religious people at the stake for heresy in the scientific community (morality has evolved)
reece says2014-07-23T00:11:02.1185867-05:00
@donald.Keller But then again it depends how intelligent you are as a person in modern society.I take what i said before back, some people might need to have books to be socially moral ;)
reece says2014-07-23T00:12:48.9473867-05:00
^ That was sarcasm by the way.
Preston says2014-07-23T08:11:25.5434189-05:00
@reece instinct is what tells individuals to rape and murder without a second thought, youre right about athiests though, although they weren't nearly as in power as they are now, so you know expecting them to kill people in masses is unrealistic.
SweetTea says2014-07-23T08:15:51.6811249-05:00
Reece ... You say a person should " go by instinct" on morals. Okay, let's examine that idea. If there is no written basis, either religious or legal, you believe a person will still follow good morals; correct? Http://www.Merriam-webster.Com/dictionary/instinct, http://www.Merriam-webster.Com/dictionary/moral
reece says2014-07-23T08:25:50.0180150-05:00
@Preston Before we debate, i don't believe in free-will.No, people that rape and kill have genetic deformities or a bad child hood, etc, yes in away it is instinct but not the same instinct that our genome is built (progress as a social species).It wasn't meant to be taken literally, the burning at the stake thing..
Preston says2014-07-23T08:31:39.3484371-05:00
No im totally agreeing with you about the crusades, burning at the stakes, and hangings. Im just saying its a natural urge to reproduce, so when the 20 year old guy feels attracted to the 7 year old girl.... Ya that's what im saying, natural urges and instinct shouldn't be your guide. Societal morality is ok, Religious morality is ok, just not instinct.
SweetTea says2014-07-23T08:36:00.5548371-05:00
Reece ... You must admit, though, individuals who have illnesses, i.e. Pedophilia, Schizophrenia, Psychopathic, Antisocial Personality Disorder, etc. ARE influenced by their mental illness. They cannot distinguish good or bad, in the sense others can. Therefore, they cannot use instinct to judge such things. And family members of sick individuals may know good from bad, yet they protect the sick rather than help them. That too shows a problem with relying on instinct.
reece says2014-07-23T08:36:55.5448371-05:00
@Preston Okay.Every choice we make is an instinct as a species of animal.People who think we have freewill/choice, try to put them self's above the laws of nature.I just find it pathetic.
SweetTea says2014-07-23T08:39:28.8469938-05:00
Reece ... Judging from your last post, I assume you know some very pretentious Believers. Am I correct?
reece says2014-07-23T08:40:54.1171404-05:00
@SweetTea No i just feel strongly about this topic.
SweetTea says2014-07-23T08:45:09.0071743-05:00
Reece ... Christian teaching tells us that all humans sin. Therefore, none are perfect no matter what they base their morals on. So, how does that go against the Laws of Nature?
Preston says2014-07-23T08:46:45.4157923-05:00
Ok pause for a sec, theres a booster who got banned who is back http://www.Debate.Org/debates/The-colonists-was-justified-in-revolting-against-the-British/1/ they used to be http://www.Debate.Org/RoyalistTeaPartyOfficial/
reece says2014-07-23T08:47:59.7719867-05:00
SweetTea: I didn't say it did, did i?
reece says2014-07-23T08:50:27.2336142-05:00
@SweetTea sin is only wrong if god observes it, but i don't believe in a go thus i don't believe in sin.
reece says2014-07-23T08:50:59.7682481-05:00
reece says2014-07-23T09:00:16.3557906-05:00
@SweetTea This was for you answer. My morals are based on survival of the fittest and remember "fittest" is an ambiguous word.
Preston says2014-07-23T09:01:07.6807385-05:00
Survival of the fittest morals would allow rape, pedophilia, murder, and torture
SweetTea says2014-07-23T09:03:00.4220423-05:00
Reece ... Do you know the definition of sin? I have included it in the link, because it ISN'T confined to religion. If you don't believe in sin, you don't believe in moral wrongdoing. Http://www.Merriam-webster.Com/dictionary/sin
reece says2014-07-23T09:06:44.2366770-05:00
@SweetTea Yes, sin is based on and against the laws of god, a god that i don't believe in.I don't believe Morality derived from a god.
reece says2014-07-23T09:11:39.0317667-05:00
@Preston yes it does and so what? Their are consequences for it... Nature does it's own thing if you like it or not.Like how we are discussing about it right now.
SweetTea says2014-07-23T09:12:28.8116858-05:00
Reece ... You didn't read the link; did you? The definition of sin is first & foremost "an offense against religious or moral law ". Are you against having morals, now? Another definition of sin is " an action that is or is felt to be highly reprehensible". Religion has nothing to do with that! In fact, the religious definition as in "a transgression against God" comes much further down the list in definitions. So, if you believe in morals, then you believe there is right & wrong. And wrong, by definition, is sin.
reece says2014-07-23T09:12:38.0564147-05:00
In other words, **** happens
Preston says2014-07-23T09:12:56.6675726-05:00
@reece so if you think everyone should be raping, killing, and torturing there would be no punishment! Because everyone would accept it! At this point your showing religion is what keeps the world from turning into reeces murderland.
reece says2014-07-23T09:15:39.6439067-05:00
@Preston take 5min and think about what you are saying and be rational.
SweetTea says2014-07-23T09:16:37.3212788-05:00
Preston ... I have to agree. The phrase "survival of the fittest" suggests survival at ANY cost -- basically suggesting ANY action is admissible.
Preston says2014-07-23T09:18:49.5789266-05:00
I think reece is just digging a deeper hole
SweetTea says2014-07-23T09:18:51.4495952-05:00
If anything goes, then there are no morals.
SweetTea says2014-07-23T09:21:15.1439585-05:00
Preston ... He's lovable, but he does tend to see the tree -- NOT the forest!
reece says2014-07-23T09:21:36.6255716-05:00
@SweetTea I believe morality is an ever evolving/adapting sphere that has been around for billions of years that has effected ever type of animal that has ever walked on this earth. I don't believe that there is a god with static beliefs of how we should behave.
Preston says2014-07-23T09:22:42.8956460-05:00
@reece, we see that... Im not living in your world... Im just imagining you playing sims, your guy robbing others because you can...
reece says2014-07-23T09:23:00.0541322-05:00
I am seeing the universe
SweetTea says2014-07-23T09:24:53.0456565-05:00
You think animals practice morality? Wow! Where is that exhibit at the zoo? Morals are confined to human beings. Yes, some of them do change with time -- but not all. In a civilized society, survival of the fittest doesn't trump the laws of the land.
Preston says2014-07-23T09:25:08.1621534-05:00
*Gasp* how could you do this to the aliens!!!
reece says2014-07-23T09:26:27.3995633-05:00
@Preston There is personal morals, social morels, etc and they all intertwine and connect with each other. "Recognize that the very molecules that make up your body, the atoms that construct the molecules, are traceable to the crucibles that were once the centers of high mass stars that exploded their chemically rich guts into the galaxy, enriching pristine gas clouds with the chemistry of life. So that we are all connected to each other biologically, to the earth chemically and to the rest of the universe atomically. That"s kinda cool! That makes me smile and I actually feel quite large at the end of that. It"s not that we are better than the universe, we are part of the universe. We are in the universe and the universe is in
SweetTea says2014-07-23T09:27:27.8507258-05:00
Reece ... Hon, you aren't seeing the universe. You are seeing the world "according to you". That's pretty narrow-minded.
reece says2014-07-23T09:27:51.0483719-05:00
The last word was meant to be "us"
Preston says2014-07-23T09:31:06.0677222-05:00
Saying its "in" makes you sound hip! But im going to disagree with you, I don't want to have every experience, there's pain in this world I never want to feel.
SweetTea says2014-07-23T09:31:24.7724819-05:00
Well, I have got a deadline so I can't discuss this further. I will only add that your (reece) description reminds me of an old Eric Clapton tune (on link). Take care ... Https://www.Youtube.Com/watch?V=Q3L4spg8vyo
reece says2014-07-23T09:31:38.0639375-05:00
You guys still don't get what i'm saying?
reece says2014-07-23T09:32:22.0099826-05:00
Preston says2014-07-23T09:32:38.9518108-05:00
Ya youre saying survival of the fittest morals, that's kill, rape, pillage, males must die, women and children must suffer.
reece says2014-07-23T09:35:44.2366715-05:00
@SweetTea but those are fails of survival of the fittest in modern society.
reece says2014-07-23T09:35:59.6395033-05:00
I mean Preston
Preston says2014-07-23T09:39:31.5797447-05:00
No those are obstructions of a religiously based society, look at tribes in Africa, they will sharpen their teeth and raid each other. During raids they will bite at each other! That doesn't happen here because their morals are Survival of the Fittest.
reece says2014-07-23T09:40:01.8747505-05:00
Morality is an ever evolving/adapting sphere
reece says2014-07-23T09:40:57.1766625-05:00
@Prestontheir 3rd and 2nd world country's
Preston says2014-07-23T09:41:43.2902625-05:00
Not really, religious books keep morals generally the same, that's the point
Preston says2014-07-23T09:43:02.5070625-05:00
I know their second and third world, buy you said we should "go by instinct" and "morals are based on survival of the fittest " if we all did that we would act like them
reece says2014-07-23T09:44:51.9098625-05:00
@Preston What was the OT? Even the bible adapts to what mans morals are...
Preston says2014-07-23T09:47:05.5485734-05:00
No it doesn't, people choose to adapt their own morals, remember during the atrocities that happened the bible wasn't available to all, only a select few in Latin. So their morals were guided by impulse, like you want. We haven't had crusades 2.0 yet so...
reece says2014-07-23T09:47:41.6387986-05:00
Preston: ever choice you make is by instinct. Not by choice. If you swapped body's with a man atom by atom and he shot someone, you would of done the same thing because you would of been him.
Preston says2014-07-23T09:50:00.8072907-05:00
Um... No I wouldn't... Im a pacifist :p and that's still choice, personaly I would rather die than kill, if someone came at me with a knife I would pray for forgiveness and allow myself to die. If you were me atom for atom you would probably choose to defend yourself.
reece says2014-07-23T09:52:15.5889356-05:00
@Preston Wow! Okay. Where do you think choice comes from?
Preston says2014-07-23T09:55:08.6430635-05:00
Choice is an individual decision that we make, it comes from the individual
Preston says2014-07-23T09:55:31.1862085-05:00
So If you were jumped by a guy with a knife what do you do?
reece says2014-07-23T09:57:31.2142052-05:00
@Preston Is individuality your best answer?
Preston says2014-07-23T10:01:09.2751986-05:00
Well I was avoiding answering religiously so, it comes from god as a gift in the form of free agency. You could also say its comes from the experiences we have exposed our selves to. Rational Choice theory still stands, So why is there no such thing as free will?
reece says2014-07-23T10:02:54.6240245-05:00
@Preston I would protect myself by any means in the context of not harming any other person in the process. Let me answer your other question first please before you post.
Preston says2014-07-23T10:12:12.5063528-05:00
reece says2014-07-23T10:14:14.5962098-05:00
@Preston If you leave out free will and god, I believe our genes, education, environment, parents, media, evaluation, etc etc. etc. all intertwine.There wouldn't be any room for Freewill because the universe influences us in so many ways.
Preston says2014-07-23T10:19:16.9729481-05:00
Right, so let me ask you something, if youre raised to hate charity and one day after you were having a bad day, you were waiting in a long line to check out with your groceries, the cashier is having issues cashing out the person infront of you, then you help by giving the cashier cash to pay for the person infront of you, why did you do it. Sorry this is confusing... I was helped by a woman who I am now friends with, she is an avid femal supremisist, hates the poor, hats charity cases. The woman who was cashing me out couldn't figure out how to run my card. So this woman, who later said she would have normally yelled at me, helped out. Going against everything that formed who she was. Why? If theres no free choices then why?
reece says2014-07-23T10:27:32.7368492-05:00
@Preston It depends what type of mood she was in before hand, what your personality was like,what the temperature was, etc etc etc (temperature controls hormones) I could give you a thousand reasons why that played out like it did.
reece says2014-07-23T10:28:00.3649805-05:00
They all would of interacted together
Preston says2014-07-23T10:38:27.9795263-05:00
I don't think it can be explained; I have another example but its really personal so no judgment, its also the reason im religious. Three years ago I was canoeing (from the source of the Mississippi to the bottom) with 14 other friends and two guides, the guides were supposed to be in the front and back but I drifted behind and got stuck and lost my paddle, when I freed myself no one was around, I drifted for about a day or so and decided, I'm going to die (no food and all), ill say my dues, so I prayed. 5 minutes later a boat came from behind, it was a guide, he was headed up river (I had passed them) to find me, but he said and I quote "I was headed upstream when I had a really strong feeling to go down, I told my self it was illogical and even ignored it at first, but here you are". It also turns out that the motor boat wouldn't have been able to reach me in 20 feet because it got too shallow. That night I had the best Powdered milk of my life. But there is no logical reason as to why I was found, none what so ever, but here I am, alive and fed.
reece says2014-07-23T10:47:22.9972522-05:00
@Preston Even if what you are suggesting was a "supernatural" occurrence that happened, i still would think there would be a natural course for it. But that has nothing to do with freewill because he didn't choose to have that feeling.
Preston says2014-07-23T10:47:55.0552522-05:00
Your right he doesn't choose to feel that feeling but he chooses to act on that feeling
reece says2014-07-23T10:49:32.3839391-05:00
@Preston Yes, and how did he make that choice?
reece says2014-07-23T10:52:37.3075245-05:00
@Preston i think you're starting to get what i'm saying.
Preston says2014-07-23T10:54:12.9361375-05:00
Kinda but he still makes that choice even though it goes against all odds
reece says2014-07-23T10:56:54.9119758-05:00
The odds of his hole life? (who he is)
reece says2014-07-23T11:01:11.8144226-05:00
By the way spirituality isn't just bound by religion ;)
Preston says2014-07-23T11:01:27.5705236-05:00
Ya, realize hes was a marine, so strict to rules and he was trained to up not down stream.
Preston says2014-07-23T11:02:01.6486352-05:00
I realize that, but praying to a god ties it to religion
reece says2014-07-23T11:07:16.5447606-05:00
Animals/humans still react to bad feelings to some degree no matter what. Modern spirituality is centered on the "deepest values and meanings by which people live." It embraces the idea of an ultimate or an alleged immaterial reality. It envisions an inner path enabling a person to discover the essence of his/her being.
Preston says2014-07-23T11:08:38.2580844-05:00
Ok... Yea and I attribute that to my faith in god
reece says2014-07-23T11:14:31.6486580-05:00
I know you do. May i share this link with you before i hop off, it's my most inspirational video.
Preston says2014-07-23T11:15:08.7909878-05:00
Cant watch it at work but CYA
reece says2014-07-23T11:22:52.4415599-05:00
It nice talking to you, bye :)
reece says2014-07-23T11:23:14.1568991-05:00
reece says2014-07-23T11:37:10.0915814-05:00
@SweetTea "Reece ... Hon, you aren't seeing the universe. You are seeing the world "according to you". That's pretty narrow-minded." I am seeing the world through science/philosophy plus i think objectively, not subjectively like most people . The only world you see from is theology/Mythology.
yetifivepecks says2014-08-05T20:06:15.2502719-05:00
I don't think that a single book should never be someone's sole measure of their moral compass, but they should still be allowed here in my opinion. Books are great sources of learning. Even books you may deem useless still have things worth teaching.

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