Should sanctions against Russia be loosened or tightened?

Posted by: UtherPenguin

Vote
18 Total Votes
1

Lift Sanctions

7 votes
3 comments
2

Tighten Sanctions

5 votes
1 comment
3

Loosen Sanctions

3 votes
2 comments
4

Cate

3 votes
2 comments
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(Maximum 900 words)
PetersSmith says2015-06-19T20:51:56.0771046-05:00
That's not Cate. Cate would never encoruage smoking.
PetersSmith says2015-06-19T20:52:01.1628024-05:00
Encourage*
Kreakin says2015-06-19T23:17:30.7112703-05:00
You left out - Leave as is. Which would currently be my choice.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-06-19T23:23:24.8165839-05:00
@emporer1 If we tighten sanctions, we may hurt nations. If we do nothing, Putin runs a muck, makes America looks like fools again, and they hurt other countries. The question there is who would you rather have controlling the situation; the United States and our allies or Russia, China, and Iran?
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-06-19T23:33:24.0312573-05:00
@imabench Eh, Putin Speaks loudly and carries a small stick. He's all fear inducing and no action. Why do you think he's pushing as hard as he can right now? He knows that he has a ton of slack with Obama in the White House, but he also knows play time is almost over. Putin is like Kim Jong Il (the deceased) he will push and push and push, stretch the line as far as he can. But, as soon as we seriously say stop, it's done. He won't cross the line into a second cold war. He's tough, aggressive, and a super alpha-male, but he's not a moron. He understands that if none of us are alive, he can't have fun poking us every now and then
Renegader says2015-06-21T16:05:41.3384100-05:00
Why peonalize Russian citizens for something they have no control over?
debate_power says2015-06-21T18:44:36.2332123-05:00
Yeah if Russia doesn't play to the Western tune, we have a right to destroy it. Absolutely. Forget that it is its own country and everything.
debate_power says2015-06-21T18:45:12.0555015-05:00
Squeezing Russia into submission... You're such a jingo.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-06-23T14:18:51.9950446-05:00
Hmm ... If I was Putin and my economy was going to shambles because of the US and I needed money ... I suppose I'd be selling nukes to their enemies. Seems like a logical play.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-06-23T14:22:25.9175124-05:00
You know ... Win win win ... Even better is their own citizens would blame the 2016 administration for bringing on nuclear cold war. They'd be such imbeciles that they'd turn on their own government. It's such a great age to be a dictator, really. People are dumber and have less backbone than they ever have. It must be fun for them.
debate_power says2015-06-23T14:49:54.3744589-05:00
Putin is a dictator, eh? So what is the point with having a Russian parliament? And what's wrong with selling weapons to people? The U.S. does that too. Perhaps the U.S. is a dictatorship?
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-06-23T15:03:21.7055842-05:00
There really isnt much of a point to the Parliament if the guy is using his party members as secret police to remove people who speak out against him. He'd got his own 'Brown Shirts' running rampant over there.
debate_power says2015-06-23T15:16:04.4822527-05:00
Prove it.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-06-24T07:35:22.5994647-05:00
In some ways it is ... I can see where you might make those distinctions. The presidential seat does often treat itself as the supreme law of the land.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-06-24T07:37:41.8395044-05:00
"And what's wrong with selling weapons to people?" Theres nothing inherently wrong with it ... But doing it with tact can most certainly create advantageous positions for you and bring destruction on your enemies, all in an indirect fashion.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-06-24T07:39:24.0480708-05:00
We'd be fools not to take those types of transactions into consideration, too.
stargate says2015-06-24T08:02:33.4548267-05:00
Why would you want to lift them? Russia has not fixed the problem at hand. Also how long has Putin been in office? I like the fact they do not have any term limits on him.
stargate says2015-06-24T08:03:50.7075123-05:00
If anything we should tighten sanctions until they back down. We need to show that the west is still as strong as ever.
stargate says2015-06-24T08:19:32.7783174-05:00
They stole land from the Ukraine, they have been selling weapons to Ukrainian rebels. They are trying to restore the old Russian empire, the only way I will agree that sanctions should be lifted is one Russia pull out of the Ukraine, and two hold real elections so Putin is no longer in office.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-06-24T08:28:09.8191716-05:00
Its a tough situation when half the citizenry claim to be Russians. Russia's gotta stand up for their citizens right? The place was run by a Russian puppet for the longest time. Its not a surprise that alot of the country claims to be Russian. Its a territory of Russia run by some rebels that Russia allowed to cede ... Not the other way around. The day they took out the Russian representation and alienated all of those Russians living there is the day this problem started snowballing.
stargate says2015-06-24T10:35:36.8239448-05:00
They should not be helping the rebels though, it is Ukrainian territory. So was the Crimea Peninsula. Also look at what Russia did to Gerorgia.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-06-24T10:44:41.2308369-05:00
What you are calling rebels are claiming themselves Russian citizens. It'd be like the Bahamas trying to cut ties with the united states entirely. Half their citizens and vacation visitors are from the United states. Their people have close ties to that place. If there was an event that threatened all of the US families living there you can bet the US would get involved ... Even though they think of themselves as a sovereign nation over there.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-06-24T10:48:10.4196613-05:00
Maybe panama would be a better example ... Since part of it actually belonged to the US like Ukraine did Russia.
stargate says2015-06-24T12:21:55.1029959-05:00
The Ukraine is a independent nation, Russia has no right to take there land. Most of those rebels are people who went form the Russian boarder to Ukrainian to fight the Ukrainian government. Russia has not had Ukrainian sense the Soviet Union, that is not there land. Also the USA maybe uses out military a lot, but we have not stolen land in the past 15- 20 years from the countries we attack.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-06-24T13:06:32.6176540-05:00
USSR was not so long ago. Those people (loyalists) are still alive and still live there regardless of national borders being redrawn. Thats where they were born, it's their home.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-06-24T13:13:06.4316272-05:00
December 1991. Thats even less far back than I had first thought when I posted my response above. Thought I'd verify for myself after posting and it's even more apparent that soviet loyalist's are right where i'd expect them to be. They haven't even had a full generation yet to be bred out. I don't know why it's surprising to some that half the country still loves their former nation. Wouldn't you if your state split off? You'd still have some attachment to the US for sure ... Maybe even want to rejoin it if your state representatives turn out to not be acting in your best favor.
stargate says2015-06-24T14:08:45.1274536-05:00
Look no matter how you look at it Breaken away from your country is a illegal act. Also that is Ukrainian land, and most people do not want to be with Russia, Russia is just spreading fear to the countries near it. They need to hold real elections and kick Putin out of office. Once that happens then i will think Russia is getting better. Also the Soviet Union fell, get over it. So Russia need to stop trying to live in the past.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-06-24T14:44:09.9493575-05:00
When Ukraine was breaking away from Russia it was an illegal act. No sympathy for people experiencing the same discomfort Ukraine did back in the day? "Also the Soviet Union fell, get over it. So Russia need to stop trying to live in the past." And now Ukraine has fallen. Perhaps they should stop living in the past as well and get over the fact that their people dont want to be led by that government any longer.
stargate says2015-06-24T15:51:20.0877940-05:00
Oh that is funny, no when Ukraine left it was when the Soviet Union fell. There was no war, also how about you stop trying to start a war with the west. Because once it happens everyone loses. I bet most of the people who voted on this pole are wither Russians or liberals. Until Russia betters there ways then we should put more sanctions on Russia. We should help arm countries near Russia, such as Poland, Ukraine, Georgia, Findland, and the baltic states and many others. Russia is a political corrupt government, a government that just wants to fight other weaker countries. If you want to fight then fight against someone your own size, NATO.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-06-24T21:27:13.4138471-05:00
NATO!? Rofl
stargate says2015-06-25T08:46:40.5140033-05:00
Fine you know what, lets debate this topic then. Or do you not want to FreedomBeforeEquallity?
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-06-25T08:48:08.5544970-05:00
Debate what? That the internal separation happening within the Ukraine is not comparable to the separation that was going on in Russia that led to the Ukraine's formation?
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-06-25T08:48:39.1652859-05:00
*formation of Ukraine.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-06-25T08:49:53.9651253-05:00
All seems like the natural rise and fall of nations to me.
stargate says2015-06-25T08:54:07.1038686-05:00
By debate I mean the topic should sanctions on Russia be loosened or tightened. Also most people who are in those rebles armys are not even Ukrainian, they are Russians. Russia is fighting a secret war on the countries near them. Russia needs to be stoped, Russia is just causeing more deaths, and runeing peoples lives. They need to repect the countries near them. We are not in the 18th century or the 19th you can not go around takeing other countries land. Russia is political corrupt, Putin kill those who speack out against him. He just wants to restore the soviet union. Putin used to be part of the soviet secret police.
stargate says2015-06-25T08:56:45.4469136-05:00
The sanctions are working, Russia will soon be forced to pull out of Ukraine. But if it was me we should take more drastic action. We should send money, weapons and troops to help Ukraine retake lost land. If it was me I would stop most if not all tradeing with Russia.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-06-25T08:59:40.2566063-05:00
I dont like what they are doing either really, but im not under the illusion that sanctions are the most effective way to deal with it.
stargate says2015-06-25T09:04:31.4875795-05:00
I am glad that you at least understand that much.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-06-25T11:58:41.4448326-05:00
If you help to kill russians directly like that you might have well just declared war on Russia. Those weapons will end up being used to kill off these "rebels" of yours or help to opress them and keep them from gaining the representation they want in their country. Thats pretty harsh ... I would almost hope that Russia would not stand for such a thing.
stargate says2015-06-25T12:08:23.6012277-05:00
I want them to not join Russia, they can vote in Ukrainian elections. I would not kill the civilians, but I would stop Russia from taking Ukraine. Those are rebels, and rebels are targets, some of those rebels are Russian troops, so why not send in our troops to help. I dream of a day where we do not need war, but that day is far away. Right now Russia is treating the peace, and you know what someone has to stand up for whats right. I know people will die, but it would be for the greater good. Also I am not the saying lets attack Russia, I am saying lets attack illegal rebel cells. Also those rebels have broken the cease fire agreement, and Russia has been send weapons and troops so why can we not?
stargate says2015-06-25T12:12:46.6378860-05:00
If I was in charge the USA would have troops in Ukraine, also I want the USA to being a military build up. You know why because the world is changing, there are major enemies aging, and it is not just terrorists. The Chines, and the Russians, also all those dictatorships that violate human rights. The world is a becoming more dangerous, and we have to meat the danger head on.
stargate says2015-06-25T12:13:50.0219049-05:00
What do you think I would do? Kill all of the people living there? I am not that evil. I just want Russia to pull back.
stargate says2015-06-25T12:14:27.7590306-05:00
So do you want to debate this topic? Sense it sort of seems like it.
Renegader says2015-06-25T12:14:56.1671769-05:00
Have you learned nothing about the failures of interventionist politics over the last decade?
stargate says2015-06-25T12:17:05.2003402-05:00
Maybe, but I will not sit back and see this happen. Sanctions only do so much. I know our people would die out there but it is for the greater good. We have become to soft over the years we need to do this. It is for the greater good.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-07-02T10:00:53.4457407-05:00
I think if we went there we'd just prove how soft we are again by pulling out before the deed was done. Change needs to happen back home before we can expect the American public to be able to carry out anything like we did in our heyday. Thats the only thing ive learned from our interventionist politics. Its not the cause thats bad ... Its the methods and the support back home thats gone sour.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-07-02T10:07:42.6388132-05:00
I know what youre saying stargate, but its not currently a possibility with the culture we have going on right now. If this was the 1960's we would have done exactly as you wouldve wanted. Now we are lucky we can even get sanctions laid down ... Theyre lifting those from our enemies like crazy too. Totally forgetting the past and why they were put there. Totally not using them as leverage to ensure that the same transgressions don't happen again. Im confident they will happen again. Annexations are all going to have to happen again over there before public opinion and culture over here can change back again and we can regain our strength. It might take a couple tragedies to make that come about. Crimea is the start.
stargate says2015-07-02T11:31:42.8692730-05:00
I want to stop a war before it happens, and I know Russia and China are just testing us right now. But we need to be ready for the worst case scenario. We have forgotten what war is like, and why he must fight. Yeah that will happen, but once we start to do that t might be to late.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-07-02T11:36:58.7165450-05:00
Yeah ... Might be. Maybe your time would be better spent whipping these weaklings in the US into fighting shape instead of letting them squabble over being able to marry their cousins, have homosexual relations, and such. Theyve got all this extra time to be doing something meaningful and instead are philosophizing themselves into a corner.
stargate says2015-07-02T12:05:32.9399102-05:00
True, but the only way I could do that would be to rise into a political or military office.
stargate says2015-07-02T12:07:59.7699338-05:00
True
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-07-02T12:12:18.3245795-05:00
Youre young right? Get to it. There will still be a need for your type of mentality in the years to come. We'll undoubtedly need people like you to dig us out of this mess.
stargate says2015-07-02T12:18:46.7018513-05:00
True, there is a need for people like me. Maybe I should try to run for office. We need to be ready for when it does happen.
stargate says2015-07-02T12:42:17.6698061-05:00
So what should I become, a senator, president house of representatives, or military, or vise president?
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-07-02T12:44:51.5024663-05:00
Youre a millennial though. Youre going to be in a minority when youre looking for votes. Thats what im talking about when I say we kind of 'need' some type of event to wake people up. You won't get anywhere in politics until the culture has changed and their choices catch up to them.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-07-02T12:47:09.0659117-05:00
Military's a long ladder to climb and caps out pretty fast for most people. It does lay the groundwork for being able to be a more effective politician and government leader though. I wouldnt try staying in till you were 4 star though.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-07-02T12:49:12.2897828-05:00
Idk though ... People seem inclined to vote for under qualified ex-lawers and civil fluff jobs as their presidents. Maybe you can use their standards against them on that. Should make it easy to get in no matter what your profession ... As long as you act like you have a bleeding heart for minorities.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-07-02T12:52:15.9545162-05:00
Youre gonna have to end up pitching everything to them in terms of liberal policy anyways ... So you might as well get your argument straight now. Say youre doing it for the trees and you stand for the rainbow flag, and you wont let those russian dogs take away your peoples natural born right to facebook. That might work.
stargate says2015-07-02T13:09:10.9261316-05:00
True I would have to act nice to the minorities. I think we need to wake up, and see what is happen in the world. We worry so much about the war on terror yet we have far bigger treats. Yet everyone does not want to admit it. We need to remember what happened in the past and why it happened. One day at this rate someone will try to go over the edge and it might be to late. . Yeah but do we really wan that to happen?
stargate says2015-07-02T13:09:57.8518340-05:00
True it might work, might.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-07-02T13:59:14.2210448-05:00
I want it to. Not only for the fact that it'll help in the long run but also to get rid of smug.
stargate says2015-07-02T14:13:46.8238916-05:00
Well I would try to make this nation better, but I am going to go super liberal to get their. I will try to get their by standing up for what I think is right. And I eill stick by what I believe in.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-07-02T14:30:24.3194489-05:00
But super liberal is what got it the way it is. Youre supposed to throw that garbage out once you get in and start swaying people towards the fight. No liberal will stand for sending troops to Crimea. Just ask em.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-07-02T14:30:58.9053140-05:00
Liberal doesnt make a country better. It blinds it to whats going on outside and makes it worse.
stargate says2015-07-02T15:59:09.8966658-05:00
I know I hate liberals XD, the reason I said that was because the way you sounded when answering my questions. No I am a conservative, republican. I want to send troops to Ukrainian they do not.
stargate says2015-07-02T16:05:50.2223603-05:00
Also I said i will NOT be liberal to get their. Go capitalism.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-07-03T05:30:51.8916600-05:00
Oh I read you saying ''I am going to go super liberal to get there'' lol.
stargate says2015-07-03T07:02:56.0670921-05:00
XD
stargate says2015-07-03T07:21:33.9523264-05:00
Yeah I meant to say not going to go super liberal.

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