Should Science Enter the Religious Classroom(private school)?

Posted by: SamStevens

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23 votes

It depends

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Vox_Veritas says2015-08-10T01:16:29.8966377Z
I don't see why not. Of course, if you're referring to doctrinally unsound ideas which the mainstream always calls science, then doing forcing it upon such schools would be a clear violation of the Establishment Clause.
triangle.128k says2015-08-10T01:17:27.4011804Z
@Vox_Veritas By those "doctrinally unsound ideas" are you referring to stuff like Evolution or any real science?
Vox_Veritas says2015-08-10T01:21:04.5519983Z
I wouldn't call it real science, but yes. The Establishment Clause (or at least the contemporary interpretation of the Establishment Clause) is a contract. No religion may elevate itself in the Government and act as though it's the state religion. In exchange, the Government must stay out of religious practice and belief, even if that belief contradicts what the secular majority calls science.
Vox_Veritas says2015-08-10T01:21:54.8155205Z
If the Government can force private schools to teach evolution, then Evangelical Christians may make the United States a Christian Theocracy.
triangle.128k says2015-08-10T01:24:39.6955515Z
Public schools are state-owned, and the government of the US must be secular. That means, they can't impose creation myths in those schools.
triangle.128k says2015-08-10T01:24:57.4952656Z
What else do you deny besides Evolution? No wonder the US has an issue with scientific illiterate people.
Vox_Veritas says2015-08-10T01:27:25.1814123Z
Public Schools should not be allowed to teach exclusively Evolution either. A sizable minority of Americans believe that Evolution violates their beliefs. They pay taxes too. Students who don't believe in it should be taught Evolution, those who do should have the other option. This idea is not a violation of the Establishment Clause. It's called fair accommodation. By the way, insulting me will not accomplish anything productive.
Vox_Veritas says2015-08-10T01:27:52.1851854Z
*should not be taught Evolution.
Vox_Veritas says2015-08-10T01:28:57.2532025Z
If "secular" violates the beliefs of a sizable minority, then that brand of secularism violates the Establishment Clause.
triangle.128k says2015-08-10T01:28:57.2688026Z
Should we also teach unbias against ideas like Communism and Nazism in social studies classses because of some people's "beliefs?"
triangle.128k says2015-08-10T01:28:59.8584192Z
Should we also teach unbias against ideas like Communism and Nazism in social studies classses because of some people's "beliefs?"
Vox_Veritas says2015-08-10T01:30:04.5208337Z
Communism and Nazism should be taught about in a neutral context.
triangle.128k says2015-08-10T01:30:16.9385133Z
If people start denying basic events in history and say that god was responsible for any possible evidence of those, should we teach that?
triangle.128k says2015-08-10T01:30:51.1651327Z
If you want to poison your children mentally with ideas like Creation, you can go ahead and send them to a faith school.
Vox_Veritas says2015-08-10T01:31:38.6206369Z
Besides, Creationists make up over a third of the population. Probably less than 1% of Americans are Nazis.
triangle.128k says2015-08-10T01:32:59.4421809Z
That's because scientific illiteracy is a problem in the USA. People who want to teach creation in secular public schools are only going to make it worse. You can't teach religious concepts in secular state-owned public schools.
Vox_Veritas says2015-08-10T01:34:16.0230718Z
By "faith school" you must mean a religious private school, which means you agree with me. Non-establishment does not depend on what the majority of the scientific community says. They do not run this country. It relies upon what the Establishment Clause says. If 50% of Americans wanted to believe in a flat Earth. That's their right, according to the Establishment Clause.
Vox_Veritas says2015-08-10T01:35:40.8096153Z
I have already explained that secularism is a two-way street, and your viewpoint on Evolution should not change that.
triangle.128k says2015-08-10T01:36:09.0145961Z
But they have to be open to secular ideas and they can't be entirely brainwashed by propaganda. This is why common core standards are essential, one of them should include teaching Evolution and other scientific concepts. I don't care if you want to live in your fantasy world of mythology, but at least give the right to an unbiased secular education.
Vox_Veritas says2015-08-10T01:37:27.0462963Z
If Creationism may not be taught then Evolution may not be taught either, even if this "causes scientific illiteracy". Under the Constitution, neutrality trumps utilitarianism.
triangle.128k says2015-08-10T01:37:56.5772856Z
If we keep schools teaching concepts such as creation because of a few ignorant bunch, other developed countries are going to laugh at us for our education system.
triangle.128k says2015-08-10T01:38:29.9302994Z
Why shouldn't Evolution be taught? It's a secular concept, secular means without religious beliefs.
Vox_Veritas says2015-08-10T01:38:53.8764529Z
Besides, literally everything you've been saying hinges upon the assumption that Evolution is true. I'm at least taking the neutral viewpoint here.
SamStevens says2015-08-10T01:39:14.2189833Z
They already laugh at us. Look at the southern portion of the united states and how they keep pushing the bible into the classroom.
Vox_Veritas says2015-08-10T01:40:32.4066845Z
Evolution is atheistic, and it violates religious belief, which is not secular at all, because it establishes tenets of a certain religion (or the whole religion) as being false. Please learn what secularism actually means. It isn't synonymous with atheism.
triangle.128k says2015-08-10T01:40:45.0583656Z
@Vox_Veritas If creation is taught, that is teaching an interpretation of a part of the Bible. It is imposing religious beliefs in public schools.
triangle.128k says2015-08-10T01:41:14.7609560Z
There are religious people that interpret their religion to be compatible with Evolution instead of believing in fairy tales.
Vox_Veritas says2015-08-10T01:41:43.1375379Z
I don't agree with those people who seek to teach Creationism in public school classrooms and not evolution; this too is a violation of the Establishment Clause because it pushes religious doctrine over atheism.
Vox_Veritas says2015-08-10T01:44:43.9114967Z
Creationism is the idea that the Universe was created by a deity. It isn't exclusive to any single religion. Those who hold that viewpoint should be taught that, and those who don't should not. Many religious people hold evolution to be compatible with their faith, yes. But a ton of religious people do not, and I don't see what that has to do with them.
triangle.128k says2015-08-10T01:44:47.6243205Z
I get what you're saying, but Evolution doesn't imply god is fake as there is a concept of theistic Evolution. Science is taught in schools, and Evolution is a part of science. You could easily deny many other scientific concepts in the name of god, then push that in public schooling.
triangle.128k says2015-08-10T01:45:57.6687695Z
Creation isn't a part of science, the proof scientists find doesn't point towards god creating everything from the start.
Vox_Veritas says2015-08-10T01:47:23.2977184Z
Creationism doesn't even imply that God exists. The creator could be an alien, or a very powerful being who isn't God, or the Universe could be a computer used by a gigantic fat alien named Mike. One advocate of atheistic ID/Creationism was Sir Fred Hoyle.
Vox_Veritas says2015-08-10T01:48:17.9292686Z
It doesn't matter whether you consider it scientific or not. It doesn't matter if 100% of all scientists call it pseudoscience. To undo the Establishment Clause you must rewrite the Constitution.
triangle.128k says2015-08-10T01:50:29.9866892Z
Science is a subject in school, and what's taught in Science is what most scientists have found evidence for and tested. The Constitution's church state seperation just means that the state can't control religious beliefs. And that the church and dictate laws based on religion, it's not unconstitutional to teach science in school.
triangle.128k says2015-08-10T01:51:02.8873001Z
What's taught in school is mainstream science. Science implies to draw conclusions based on evidence. We have no evidence for Creation, so it's not a part of science.
triangle.128k says2015-08-10T01:53:37.9029197Z
It's not just that but we should teach what's true in schools. Evolution is true, creationism is false. You have no proof of creation and the only proof you have is distorting pieces of evidence like fossils in your favor.
Vox_Veritas says2015-08-10T01:55:12.4264997Z
1. "We have no evidence for Creationism" is just a statement. 2. Scientific Consensus does not make it true, and even if it were to make it probably true people have the right to the dissenting opinion. The current system is oppresively majoritarian and intolerant. 3. Proclaiming "it's the real science" doesn't excuse pushing it past the Establishment Clause.
triangle.128k says2015-08-10T01:57:30.2352090Z
It doesn't violate the first ammendment. If we really were going to teach Creation and say it's "free speech," then we should teach literally every possible explanation for everything. That would include teaching holocaust denial in social studies.
Vox_Veritas says2015-08-10T01:58:55.4273551Z
Every side believes that its ideas are the truth and that dissenters are idiotic because their beliefs are obviously false. This belief does not justify forcing one's views upon the dissenters.
triangle.128k says2015-08-10T02:00:28.7939536Z
Like I said, that means we should teach ideas like holocaust denial or racism if we were really to push free speech to that extent.
triangle.128k says2015-08-10T02:00:58.7461456Z
You have no evidence for Creation, the arguments for Creation are refuted time by time. The only evidence you have is a fundamentalist bible interpretation.
Vox_Veritas says2015-08-10T02:02:36.1869443Z
This is pointless...
triangle.128k says2015-08-10T02:03:46.1664188Z
What, you're giving up because I just completely refuted your argument?
triangle.128k says2015-08-10T02:04:31.2663079Z
You imply that teaching only one worldview on human origins is a violation of free speech. That means we should teach literally every explanation and worldview on everything. That would include teaching racism or holocaust denial.
Vox_Veritas says2015-08-10T02:17:20.4760387Z
If you are so utterly confident in the truth of Evolution, how about we have a debate on the subject? I am a scientist by no means, so I will most probably lose. However, perhaps I can get you to think for yourself a bit.
SamStevens says2015-08-10T02:18:21.8156319Z
Allow me to drop this link to a good video about evolution: Food for thought.
UtherPenguin says2015-08-10T02:25:48.4646691Z
Did I miss the flamewar?
SamStevens says2015-08-10T02:26:49.8796887Z
I don't think it was a flame war, but it was an intense discussion.
triangle.128k says2015-08-10T02:27:38.2243986Z
@Vox_Veritas I think for myself and I would consider the possibility of Creation if I saw proper evidence. And no, i'm currently in a debate on Evolution and Creation and I don't want to flood my debates with a bunch of creation-evolution debates.
Diqiucun_Cunmin says2015-08-10T12:56:04.4251699Z
I don't think religious classrooms should exist in the first place... So I guess this poll isn't relevant to me.
Diqiucun_Cunmin says2015-08-10T12:56:31.3509425Z
Instead of religion class, there should be a compulsory morality class.
Greg4586 says2015-08-11T21:15:19.3416621Z
I don't see why people claim that under secularism evolution should not be taught. It's very different from a belief or opinion that secularism protects us from. Evolution is a scientific theory supported by mountains and mountains of evidence.
PericIes says2015-08-12T01:18:04.2814265Z
Private schools can teach whatever they want, as long as they're not teaching kids to break the law. That's why private schools exist.
desmoinesFE15 says2015-09-06T01:46:25.3233713Z
Kind of a silly question. Students would get confused by learning Christianity and science at the same time.
SamStevens says2015-09-06T01:48:34.0085962Z
It's not a silly question. It's asking whether or not students going to a private/religious school should be exposed to various scientific courses.
V5RED says2015-09-08T16:06:22.3495550Z
Deliberately undereducating children is a form of abuse. I oppose any laws allowing parents to do such a thing.

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