Socialism, Communism, or Capitalism?

Posted by: Knaveslayer99

Just curious to see what people pick please leave comments if you can.

Vote
85 Total Votes
1

Capitalism

51 votes
10 comments
2

Hybrid System

15 votes
6 comments
3

Socialism

10 votes
1 comment
4

Communism

9 votes
2 comments
Leave a comment...
(Maximum 900 words)
Fernyx says2016-09-19T00:51:33.6151342Z
The problem I see in communism is that it tells some people that they will get paid the same despite doing harder work.
Knaveslayer99 says2016-09-19T01:40:15.6497762Z
@Fernyx That is true within most Communist Societies however as a result of that everyone can access the basic needs for free. This includes such things as Education and Healthcare everyone has access to these things rather than a select few not to mention Communism usually puts everyone to work. This way no one can just live off the healthcare system without doing any work of course this varies depending on what Communist Society you look at.
SNP1 says2016-09-19T04:51:39.2889888Z
Platocracy with a social democracy mix.
ThePostMarxist says2016-09-19T08:28:14.6345309Z
Socialism and communism are the same thing. Marx himself used the terms interchangeably
Fernyx says2016-09-19T13:34:24.7212157Z
China has an average earning of less than 3k USD, their hybrid system is not working too well.
Fernyx says2016-09-19T13:36:25.2007880Z
@Knaveslayer99 Yeah, they get access to their needs, very poorly regulated needs. It limits much of any choices, rationing is common, and people get minimum of their needs, this as a result leads to a country of poor people.
Knaveslayer99 says2016-09-19T20:46:30.5335000Z
@Fernyx Yes they totally get the minimum of their needs that's why Russia had one of the best educated populations in the world and that some of the best doctors world wide are Cuban. Because they only get their minimum needs what you are claiming is extremely false.
Fernyx says2016-09-19T22:04:10.9463868Z
@Knaveslayer99 Cubans also get terrible housing, automotive, and food. Soviet Russia had multiple hour long bread lines. Often the social programs that are focused on are ones that will help the main need of the country, while ignoring the needs of a person. Russia had great education because they needed people to match the USA with weaponry. Cuba one of the most high risk countries in the world for foreigners getting diseases, because of how much disease there is there, and the quick spread via mosquito, there is a heavy need for doctors. The problem in Cuba is they are still using cars from the 60s and the average income is 20$ (471 pesos) a month. This is terrible as beggars in America can make twice that in a day.
Fernyx says2016-09-19T22:10:30.8656276Z
@Knaveslayer99 also as for Russian edu, it doesn't even make the top 5... http://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/best-education
Knaveslayer99 says2016-09-19T23:20:15.8775867Z
@Fernyx Your claims are nothing more than Right-Winged Propaganda people who live in these societies are absolutely okay with what they are given. Surveys show that a majority of Russians preferred the USSR the same goes for Germans living in East Germany they also preferred the Communist government over the new capitalist one. Communist Governments are far better than Capitalist Governments at least everyone gets a rood over there head and food on their plate which is far more than most countries can ever achieve.
Knaveslayer99 says2016-09-19T23:22:19.5723654Z
@Fernyx Also good job on providing a link that was done in 2016 when Russia isn't Communist anymore please double check your facts before providing false evidence.
Fernyx says2016-09-20T00:20:56.2869848Z
@Knaveslayer99 yeah, Cubans loved communist Cuba so much that they were willing to cross on makeshift rafts risking death to reach Florida. One of my friends has an uncle who is a heart doctor who originated out of Cuba, he left as soon as he could to get to America. Living in Florida there are many cases like this of people around me. The Russians regret the fall of the USSR, but the 100mil that died under it did not, those that had to wait in bread lines did not, those that came over to America and thought supermarkets were only in DC were not. If education in Russia has dropped so much, it's no wonder why they want a communist society, because they are all stupid. If they do not realize the oppression under communist nations, they will love the idea at first, much like they loved Lenin. Lastly I can tell you that Brazil does not like the communist government, and Cubans like 20% a month even less.
Knaveslayer99 says2016-09-20T00:26:59.2733736Z
@Fernyx Yeah some fled but not all of them did and a majority of them still love Cuba plenty of people of fled America too you know? Also the USSR was not as Oppressive as you think if you want Oppression your living in a country that does nothing but Oppress (America)
Fernyx says2016-09-20T00:30:36.5327043Z
@Knaveslayer99 please feel free to tell me how America oppresses people and I will be able to write off every one. Pretty sure when the USSR kills anyone not in favor of the USSR or communism, it is considered oppression. They oppress voices which are against the nation. As for those who stayed in Cuba, they did that mainly for 2 reasons, 1 is that they would be punished if caught by the Cuban government, 2 is that they would be punished if caught by the American government.
Knaveslayer99 says2016-09-20T00:40:57.1498863Z
@Fernyx The USSR kills people not in favor of it? I wonder why Cuba was wiped then? Castro didn't like the USSR, Che Guevara did also let me name each country for you. - India [You supported Pakistan and Britain during the Pakistan-India War until surprise, surprise the USSR stepped in and America wet itself and backed off.] Iraq [We all know even after the search for mass weapons was done and there was nothing found it was perfectly fine with going in and killing hundreds of innocent people just to stop Saddam who totally had those non-existent weapons] Cuba [Just because Cuba become Communist America thought welp we have a legit reason to invade them now dispite the fact they haven't actually done anything to us] Any Country with ISIS in it [The reality is that ISIS could have easily been destroyed by now like it has multiple mass countries attacking it each country having a strong military but I forget your country needs ISIS so it can feed of the money they are making cause after all where do you think ISIS is getting guns form? Oh right you guys are selling them the guns to stabilize your war built economy] Oh may I also remind you that the US, France and Britain supported Nazi Germany in hopes it would step in the Soviet direction? But I know you'll claim you guys didn't support them or anything cause after all if it's Anti-American it's clearly wrong. Please if you wanna talk about this challenge me to a Debate then we'll do some real serious talking then until then sit down. Viva La Revolution!
Fernyx says2016-09-20T00:46:55.7071815Z
@Knaveslayer99 still haven't said how America oppresses people, and 100mil civilians died under the USSR reign, oppression usually entails that it is the government to its people.
Knaveslayer99 says2016-09-20T00:52:12.9704826Z
@Fernyx Please show me the statistics for how 100mil died under the USSR considering that's more than half the Russian Populations during their reign. Also please explain to me about the oppressed people living in areas America was occupying during it's campaigns.
Fernyx says2016-09-20T00:54:34.9766353Z
@Knaveslayer 56-62mil under Stalin alone.
Knaveslayer99 says2016-09-20T00:57:36.4895040Z
@Fernyx Lol you brainwashed idiot. Stalin himself killed around 5mil claiming 27 Million is foolish as most of the Russians that died were soldiers during World War 2 and claiming he killed them then I can say that all other leaders during the Second World War also killed a lot of people. Also if you check the Russian Population from World War 2 and onward you'll see that only 27 Million died not 60mil.
Fernyx says2016-09-20T01:14:37.6285870Z
@Knaveslayer99 56-62 Million Inside The USSR- http://www.ibtimes.com/how-many-people-did-joseph-stalin-kill-1111789 65 Mil Under Mao China- http://www.heritage.org/research/commentary/2010/02/the-legacy-of-mao-zedong-is-mass-murder Avg Cuba Salery (Pesos)- http://www.tradingeconomics.com/cuba/wages Brazil's Fall- http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21684779-disaster-looms-latin-americas-biggest-economy-brazils-fall More Capitalist China Gets, More Earnings Go Up- http://www.tradingeconomics.com/china/wages People Run From Cuba- http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2015/05/economist-explains-21 Struggles in North Korea- http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2624164/North-Korea-Starving-people-child-labourers-dilapidated-homes-appear-harrowing-new-images-taken-inside-rogue-state.html
Knaveslayer99 says2016-09-20T01:31:20.4256251Z
@Fernyx Stop providing me with articles provide me statistics of the Russian Population every year otherwise all your sources are void and false.
Fernyx says2016-09-20T11:30:30.3315067Z
@Knaveslayer99 you are allowed to ignore facts from credible sources all you want. I wont try to stop you, but you can't live in a shell forever.
Knaveslayer99 says2016-09-21T00:28:18.2132652Z
@Fernyx Yes because these credible sources do nothing more than state facts without any evidence or statistics to back it up I don't live in a shell but it's pretty clear that you do.
Swimwithcats says2016-09-22T04:52:54.0884788Z
Here we have a classic example of 'How can you know when something is true'. Fair point by Knaveslayer99 in citing that this is a statistic that stands alone, reported by the capitalistic side of things. Yet it is also fair to cite sources we would consider to be credible like Fernyx did. We may not know what the true statistic on Stalin's death is, but can we have a fair debate over the principles of each form of government and use history only as examples, but not standalone points?
Swimwithcats says2016-09-22T04:53:20.2457821Z
Here we have a classic example of 'How can you know when something is true'. Fair point by Knaveslayer99 in citing that this is a statistic that stands alone, reported by the capitalistic side of things. Yet it is also fair to cite sources we would consider to be credible like Fernyx did. We may not know what the true statistic on Stalin's death is, but can we have a fair debate over the principles of each form of government and use history only as examples, but not standalone points?
brycef says2016-09-24T17:52:35.6482161Z
PostMarxist - socialism and communism are not the same thing, neither than nor now. Communism exists within socialism, but socialism was historically just a term for the broader labor movement. Socialism existed long before Marx was around, and while Marx is the most influential thinker in socialism, many socialists disagree with Marx both in his own time and now. Notably, Mikhail Bakunin, one of Marx's contemporaries, criticized Marx's communist manifesto, saying that the transitional "dictatorship of the proletariat" wouldn't work because the people in power would refuse to give up power and become an even more corrupt elite than the previous bourgeoisie. Knaveslayer - I'm usually considered very left wing, but the fact of the matter is the Soviet Union was a disaster. People within it faced violent repression for basic self-expression, and its economic system was unnecessarily terrible and inefficient. There's a reason why utopian socialism and communism is always internationalist: it needs to be in order for trade to work. By trying to cut off relationships with capitalist countries, the Soviet Union, Cuba, Maoist China, and North Korea caused huge shortages in supplies for their people, leading to a poor quality of life, and at times even starvation. Couple this with their refusal of a market system and they couldn't get supplies where they needed to go because the authoritarian governments demanded oversight of everything. Conditions were undeniably wretched, and anyone who denies this has their head in the sand. It's especially messed up for anyone on the left to ignore this for ideological reasons, because the parts of the labor movement AREN'T anti-market. The effective parts of the labor movement let the market work in allocation of resources, and concern themselves with democratizing firms, making sure that once resources flow from one place to another, they're distributed fairly and democratically. At its core socialism and the left need to be about democracy and fairness. The Soviet Union and every authoritarian country connected to it were DIRECTLY opposed to democracy. They were just as anti-democracy as their enemies on the far right, and they didn't care about their people. The goal of the left is to allow the people to organize and ultimately govern themselves. The Soviet Union was terrified of this, and massacred anyone who tried it. The only people who preferred the Soviet system after it collapsed were privileged professions like teachers. But if you weren't a teacher or other favored profession, the government inevitably made things difficult for you. As for current political sentiments in Russia, everything needs to be taken with a huge grain of salt because their system is so messed up. The most powerful party is Putin's, which advocates Putin's own authoritarian cult of personality state. The second are the Stalinists, who oppose him. The third are far right wing pseudo-fascists. That means the top three parties in Russian politics are all insane, leaving you without any good options (there are actually a number of good smaller Russian parties, but none of them have any power, and I suspect that's by design). One thing that should be a huge red flag in anyone's mind when looking at Russian politics is the assassination of Boris Nemtsov by the Russian government. Nemtsov was Russia's most important voice for democracy, and he was anti-Soviet and anti-Putin. Nobody in power on the right or left could allow such a voice for the people to live.
Hunterh1991 says2016-10-25T20:40:48.4309586Z
I hate when people associate Socialism and Communism with the word "free". Look a lot deeper into countries with these systems implemented and history of their economics, healthcare, and social problems. Nothing's actually free as the politicians would have you believe and anyone who says otherwise is depressingly naive and ignorant.
SamwiseGamgee says2016-11-09T20:09:57.3385825Z
What if we were capitalistic, but every living essential was provided (in minimum amounts). Then the minimum wage could be way lower, which is good for businesses.
Gareth_BM says2017-01-10T15:31:39.0804344Z
Yes but it you provide the basics but give people no money to spend them selves that would hurt local business as people wouldn't be buying anything locally. As a result I doubt either the average wage or employment would benefit from such a scheme. What people fail to mention in the debate surrounding the minimum wage is that increasing the minimum wage would firstly significantly reduce government spending allowing them to either lower taxes stimulating the economy or invest the money in other ways. Secondly in the past the minimum wage was much high comparatively to both inflation and average production of a worker and unemployment has not significantly dropped over time as a result. Thirdly a high minimum wage would stimulate spending and saving as many minimum wage workers would be less likely to be living pay check to pay check and minimum wage workers spend much more of their money in local ventures than share holders who ultimately stand to gain the most from a low minimum wage. Between the money not being spent on minimum wage workers by the government being spent on subsidising local business who employ more people than the owner and their direct family and the fact that minimum wage workers would be spending money locally I think that local business would not loose out from the deal. Finally in states where this has actually happened there hasn't been a rise in unemployment or damage to the economy. As a result I don't believe that increasing the minimum wage would damage the economy or reduce employment in any significant way.
sutazeri says2019-02-06T16:23:29.8666822Z
Democratic socialism.

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