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32 Total Votes
1

It's a Bad Idea and Should be Removed.

20 votes
4 comments
2

It's a Good Idea, but it Needs Improvements.

11 votes
0 comments
3

It's a Good Idea but should be Removed.

1 vote
0 comments
4

It's a Bad Idea, but Should be Improved.

0 votes
0 comments
5

It's a Bad Idea.

0 votes
0 comments
6

It's a Good Idea

0 votes
0 comments
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(Maximum 900 words)
ramm55 says2015-08-31T17:45:23.5420330Z
Should be single payer!!!
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-08-31T18:19:09.7945211Z
Yeah the person paying for the procedure should be the person receiving them. True single payer system.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-08-31T18:19:31.3542739Z
Yeah the person paying for the procedure should be the person receiving them. True single payer system.
tajshar2k says2015-08-31T18:35:01.0601119Z
Replace with single payer healthcare. Obama care has just complicated stuff.
stargate says2015-08-31T18:43:57.5110667Z
How about no system like Obamacare.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-08-31T19:12:14.9437895Z
Single payer is even more complicated because then everyone is out there making rules about whats covered and whats isnt instead of a service providing coverage for what it is that I want done in particular. Everyone shouldnt have to pay hundreds of dollars everytime they go to get an oil change, to subsidize those that need tranny work all the time.
TBR says2015-08-31T19:51:27.9681226Z
@FreedomBeforeEquality - So you don't use insurance? You are not paying as part of a pool?
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-08-31T20:07:14.7091967Z
If i do itll be because I choose to, voluntarily.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-08-31T20:07:36.2377487Z
If i do itll be because I choose to, voluntarily.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-08-31T20:08:50.4020503Z
That way I reserve the right to quit said insurance if they charge too much ... Or charge me for things extraneously.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-08-31T20:09:11.9306023Z
That way I reserve the right to quit said insurance if they charge too much ... Or charge me for things extraneously.
tajshar2k says2015-08-31T20:53:26.5102667Z
Actually Single Payer makes everything less complicated. The Doctor doesn't need to worry about billing and all those other things. Just look at France, poor rich, everybody has high quality healthcare.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-08-31T21:00:14.1799195Z
What do they do with all those unemployed medical assistants? Higher taxes on the doctors to pay their welfare?
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-08-31T21:00:36.2232847Z
What do they do with all those unemployed medical assistants? Higher taxes on the doctors to pay their welfare?
tajshar2k says2015-08-31T21:00:51.2604102Z
Unemployed medical assistants?, eh what?
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-08-31T21:01:49.4983635Z
Oh wait ... They probably just get absorbed into working for the government version of the same billing office.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-08-31T21:02:11.0737167Z
Oh wait ... They probably just get absorbed into working for the government version of the same billing office.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-08-31T21:04:01.1969403Z
The people that manage the billing for those doctors. You know ... All that nonsense.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-08-31T21:04:24.1451287Z
The people that manage the billing for those doctors. You know ... All that nonsense.
Varrack says2015-08-31T21:07:18.8136945Z
Obamacare means higher premiums for young people, more taxes and penalties, and higher deductibles. Um, no. http://www.ijreview.com/2014/04/128753-7-blockbuster-obamacare-charts-white-house-doesnt-want-america-see/
TBR says2015-08-31T21:07:41.2466383Z
@FreedomBeforeEquality- So the argument is, keep an inefficient system to keep employees busy? Sounds very unlike you.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-08-31T21:12:58.1159071Z
Hey ... If its truly inefficient that company will be burdened by it. Thats on them. Problem becomes when we make it the governments problem when inefficiency arrises. Then im held accountable. I dont want any part of it.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-08-31T21:17:58.0959987Z
I just know that unemployment translates to something else those places are hiding. Dont want that to go unnoticed.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-08-31T21:18:19.5465487Z
I just know that unemployment translates to something else those places are hiding. Dont want that to go unnoticed.
TBR says2015-09-01T03:33:17.4514884Z
The inefficiencies are the very system that make the insurance companies money, right? That is what you are talking about. I have no care a number of large insurers go out of business. Can't make you business work, not my issue.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-09-01T15:20:18.4672023Z
Im certain they actually make their money in how they calculate risk/coverage. That gets worse with more people covered because there are more individuals with their own special issues that end up being accounted for by the rest. They lose money through inefficiency ... Not gain money through it. I dont care if they go out of business either ... But all that happens is the workers change hands from being a private insurance biller to a govt insurance biller. No efficiency gained there.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-09-01T15:26:14.5463323Z
Lets put it this way. Micro insurance policies are better for individuals than bundled plans. Progressive knows this and is why they fight so hard to make bundles look like a good thing. You might save a little on one of your other policies, but they gain by having you covered using a larger pool of money while effectively keeping you from leaving to go to a place that offers lower premiums. And, it only appears to work in their line of work because they reserve the right/ability to raise your rate if you f up. Obamacare has botched that. You cant charge people based on their risk ... So rates go up for everyone all at once instead of only for the people draining the pool.
TBR says2015-09-01T15:27:42.0333755Z
@FreedomBeforeEquality - While I was being somewhat flippant, the truth is not that far from my statement. Insurance companies are an additional cost no matter what way you cut it. The need a profit, where government does not. The complexities grow in a system like that, where a "single payer" reduces complexities. In the very long ago, I wrote some programs for medical billing. The system is (was) insane. The industry could dump a ton of clerical workers with the reduced complexity that single payer brings. I don't give a rats ass where they go. When I need medical care, it makes no difference to me if they are employed by the government or BlueCross.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-09-01T15:32:01.4680275Z
It does if youre going to say that single payer through the government is an improvement over private companies. Theyre just moving from one to the other. I see where youre mistaking this though, you think the government is comparable to a not-for-profit. Thats a mistake.
TBR says2015-09-01T15:32:16.2104055Z
Speaking in pools etc. is just a mindset issue. I have had virtual no medical problems at this point. The money I have paid into insurance all paying for the other guy. I really have no issue with this. Remove the insurance go-between completely and just raise my taxes making the pool "all Americans" would work fine by me.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-09-01T15:34:04.2899767Z
Why is that? You dont mind that you likely will never collect on all that money youre putting in? It might as well be gov't mandated charity.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-09-01T15:34:26.3021411Z
Why is that? You dont mind that you likely will never collect on all that money youre putting in? It might as well be gov't mandated charity.
TBR says2015-09-01T15:43:25.5391161Z
@FreedomBeforeEquality - Yea, I don't mind at all. It improves my society, thereby improving my standard of living IN the society.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-09-01T15:54:11.1837219Z
Seems like your quality of life in that society would be much more improved if your money was applied by you and toward things more local to you. You personally wont ever see the effects of every dollar you sent out. You could directly improve people who are more deserving by meeting them yourself and not letting some bureaucracy issue your funds out to some unknown account number out there.
TBR says2015-09-01T16:01:57.2712853Z
Why do I need to directly see the individual? The general health of my countrymen is more than enough "pay back" for me. The "some unknown account number" is eventual an actual person.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-09-01T16:39:56.0429011Z
Could be a sick person ... Could be a healthy person cheating on some paperwork. In single payer systems the later is much more likely.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-09-01T16:40:18.0550655Z
Could be a sick person ... Could be a healthy person cheating on some paperwork. In single payer systems the later is much more likely.
TBR says2015-09-01T17:00:53.2596304Z
@FreedomBeforeEquality - There will be some level of fraud in any system. I am sure you are not saying there is no fraud in the current system, right?
TBR says2015-09-01T17:01:55.7536310Z
In a system that I am just being charitable, there is greater possibility of fraud.
tajshar2k says2015-09-01T17:04:07.3872748Z
Well, i guess America could follow what Switzerland is doing. It seems to work well for them.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-09-01T17:05:46.2390487Z
I dont think so ... I trust my own judgement over a system where the ones who mean to defraud said system are voting members of it.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-09-01T17:06:08.9532311Z
I dont think so ... I trust my own judgement over a system where the ones who mean to defraud said system are voting members of it.
TBR says2015-09-01T17:07:23.8393341Z
@tajshar2k - There is the constant "but we have the best" argument. It just don't hold up. We clearly have the most expensive and don't have the best outcomes. It seems incredible that we are willing to pay more than most of the world, get objectively worse outcomes, and all just to satisfy some need to reject anything remotely "socialists".
tajshar2k says2015-09-01T17:13:01.5058091Z
Exactly, so follow Switzerlands model. They spend about $1453 per capita, have very flexible insurance packages, and government run healthcare programs do not exist. Nearly everybody can afford it. We can fix that, by creating competition between insurance providers in the U.S.
TBR says2015-09-01T17:13:22.3140320Z
@FreedomBeforeEquality - Who do you think perpetuates these frauds? It is the providers of services, not the recipients. I am not willing or capable of build a personal system of fraud detection for doctors or hospitals preforming their services.
tajshar2k says2015-09-01T17:14:39.6479255Z
@TBR do you agree that we must cut of spending overall?
TBR says2015-09-01T17:17:00.4103347Z
@tajshar2k - Are you talking government spending, or healthcare alone?
tajshar2k says2015-09-01T17:21:02.2165347Z
Overall.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-09-01T17:21:11.7171783Z
"I am not willing or capable of build a personal system of fraud detection for doctors or hospitals preforming their services." Maybe not you personally, where you do not feel comfortable, but at the very least you can find someone you do feel comfortable in placing trust in and let them manage it for you. The government is not that person. A company you pick from a list of reputable competing companies is better for the job. One that you can easily drop when they do wrong and you dont have to wait years for re-election or hope that a vote in congress will make it through to rectify any disputes you may have. Thats just horrible customer service really.
TBR says2015-09-01T17:26:54.4267655Z
I realize that this is just going to be a difference between the two of us, but I trust the government more than you. I am willing to outsource the fraud detection to them. And, I am willing to accept that there will be some fraud. I will not jump up-and-down at every instance of a doctor overcharging. Find them, fine them, jail them, but accept that people will try to fraud any system.
TBR says2015-09-01T17:28:24.8890177Z
@tajshar2k - Not entirely. I think we need to shift a fair amount of our spending around, and tax much higher. You are looking to Sweden, look at their tax load. http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/business/The-Numbers-Jan-2012-International_1.gif Using any metric, our taxes are low.
tajshar2k says2015-09-01T17:31:40.1012903Z
I think taxes should stay the same. But eliminate the loopholes corporations are committing too. I personally believe taxes should stay low however. I prefer to follow Switzerlands model.
tajshar2k says2015-09-01T17:34:19.0693663Z
We could cut spending in our military budget. A bigger budget doesn't always mean better army. According to Sanders, much of the spending in the Pentagon was meant to fight the Soviets. Which obviously doesn't exist anymore. Cutting spending in useless things like this is a start.
TBR says2015-09-01T17:35:28.9465360Z
Our general "income tax" could use some reform, but sits about in the middle of most advanced countries. I am OK with that. We need to deal with the corporate tax (not the rate, but the... Problems) and extend the personal brackets past where they top out now. A national sales tax (most of those countries we look at and like have them) would be nice too.
TBR says2015-09-01T17:36:59.9874923Z
@tajshar2k - I aagree with your comment re:military spending. It is just insane at this point.
tajshar2k says2015-09-01T17:37:04.1996003Z
Wouldn't the national retail tax put a bigger strain on the middle class?
tajshar2k says2015-09-01T17:38:44.3385679Z
I mean, we have the most advanced and powerful army in the world. No point increasing it. Its funny how gun nuts think they can fight the government with their cold-war era weapons, when nearly all of them supporting funding the already powerful army.
TBR says2015-09-01T17:42:15.7083875Z
The structure now is very hard on the middle-class. Extend the brackets, bring corporations inline, institute some national sales tax. I toss it in as a olive branch to the libertarians/conservatives.
TBR says2015-09-01T18:15:25.4302047Z
Back on topic.... "25% of every health care dollar goes to marketing, billing, utilization review". Yea, our sh1t is broken, and needs some serious work. ACA was/is a step, not the destination.
tajshar2k says2015-09-01T18:17:50.9351355Z
I think it would be better if Healthcare was managed state wise. Thats what they do in Canada.
tajshar2k says2015-09-01T18:30:42.0473071Z
It costs 400 dollars for health insurance in Switzerland, and it cost about 16,000 in the U.S. How does that work?
TBR says2015-09-01T18:32:59.9226575Z
I don't get the Conservatives love for all things state run, but the distribution of care would look ugly. Southern states would continue to rank at the bottom.
tajshar2k says2015-09-01T18:34:31.2015827Z
Honestly, I don't give s*it. If people had a a brain, they would just leave that forsaken place. Let them rot.
TBR says2015-09-01T18:35:57.5765963Z
@tajshar2k - Well, because even though they have a mandatory insurance schema, it is highly subsidized by the government. As a matter of fact, it is our next companion for cost per person. Looking at Island or Norway prices go down (true single payer).
tajshar2k says2015-09-01T18:35:59.8898567Z
The problem with A National Healthcare, is that 1, the guys in Washington are not to be trusted to run this efficently, and 2, it would be too hard managing it, without conflict with the laws in each state.
TBR says2015-09-01T18:36:50.3049343Z
Tajshar2k - "Honestly, I don't give s*it. If people had a a brain, they would just leave that forsaken place. Let them rot." I tend to agree.
o0jeannie0o says2015-09-01T19:22:37.8257465Z
Yall are nuts! Single payer system sucks! In america you have to pay alot of money to say have a baby $6000-$8000 without insurance. I can have one in canada free! Taxes, Used right, Are good!
TBR says2015-09-01T20:24:46.6240489Z
@o0jeannie0o - Canadian IS single-payer.
TBR says2015-09-01T20:26:33.9215367Z
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-payer_health_care Single-payer health care is a system in which the government, rather than private insurers, pays for all health care costs.[1] Single-payer systems may contract for healthcare services from private organizations (as is the case in Canada) or may own and employ healthcare resources and personnel (as is the case in the United Kingdom). The term "single-payer" thus only describes the funding mechanism—referring to health care financed by a single public body from a single fund—and does not specify the type of delivery, or for whom doctors work.
tajshar2k says2015-09-01T20:43:40.1897153Z
How do you live in Canada, and not know what single payer is???
tajshar2k says2015-09-01T20:44:08.0670940Z
Canada's healthcare system sucks. Its 2nd worst just behind America. Nothing to be proud of.
tajshar2k says2015-09-01T20:45:50.7001519Z
But of course, its good enough for Canadians. Just as long as its better than America I suppose. Canadian patriotism. Hatin Americans since 1812.
TBR says2015-09-01T21:17:14.1938255Z
WHO has Canada @30 US @37 for what its worth.
tajshar2k says2015-09-01T21:24:16.8763068Z
Ok close enough. Still pretty horrible.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-09-02T13:45:22.3831117Z
"In america you have to pay alot of money to say have a baby $6000-$8000 without insurance. I can have one in canada free!" Bottom up economics. Not looking at the big picture or where that money comes from. Free free free. "How do you live in Canada, and not know what single payer is???" Another side effect of not paying for your own way. Im not suprised in the least that people could become so detached from the system they belong to that they dont even know how it works.
BIGC says2015-09-16T23:45:06.6354709Z
Canada's healthcare is not only not free, not by one dime. But it also is one of the slowest and least reliable in the whole world!!!!, It would choose not to have healthcare at all, and not pay the extra taxes up there. My grandma brock her arm in Canada, she called the doc and they set her up for a appointment 3 months from that date! After the appointment 3 months later, they said in this exact words "mam, your arm seems to be hurt, we don't know what it is, but we can get you in for a cat scan in 6 months" 6 Months!!!!! By that time, almost a year later, her arm had healed by itself, and they told her there is nothing they can do!!!!!!!!! It makes me so mad.

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