Was Alton sterling's death justified?

Posted by: dietorangesoda

Ok this case has me heated so i'm gonna rant for just a min i've watched the video twice and this is just flat out murder the cops pinned this man down where he couldn't move put a gun to his head and shot him for nothing and what's even sadder is all these deluded white folks defending this murder regardless of his previous record or past the cops were wrong to shoot him they are not executioners and he deserved due process in court

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No it wasn't justified

13 votes
3 comments
2

Yes it was justified

6 votes
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Vox_Veritas says2016-07-07T04:36:37.1667627Z
Dunno, but this shouldn't have made national news. If the conduct of the police officers involved was unacceptable, then it should've been dealt with quietly and not politicised.
Dilara says2016-07-07T04:53:27.0989841Z
Black folks are also defending the cops. He apparently was reaching for his gun. Still sad though.
dietorangesoda says2016-07-07T06:27:04.7115255Z
I don't hear any black people defending the cops
triangle.128k says2016-07-07T06:28:09.7483424Z
DOS, why is your grammar so bad?
MattBel says2016-07-07T06:58:06.1466577Z
No, wtf
dietorangesoda says2016-07-07T07:26:27.6054545Z
How is my grammar bad? And what does that have to do with anything
Reigon says2016-07-07T11:21:46.2014664Z
I can't say it was justified or not. The issue with this is organizations such as the BLM can use the death of African American by police as a justification to push their agendas. People care wayyy to much about race here and pushing their anti cop agendas here. Anyway some facts about Alton Sterling: "He was the father of five children from different partners. " - Not really the model father type of guy. "He had a criminal history consisting of sexual intercourse with a minor under age 17 in 2000. "- So he's a sex offender. "He pleaded guilty to illegally carrying a weapon and possession of marijuana in 2009."- Criminal "A warrant was sent for his arrest in 2015 for failure to register as a sex offender, among other crimes."-Not really a model citizen. "Sterling had been carrying a gun illegally at the time of his death."- He was on probation and not allowed to carry a gun. Just like Michael Brown both Michael and Alton are thugs, I can't sympathize for criminals such as Alton Sterling. At the same time I can't justify shooting him as the scenario was unique and we have to look at the Police Officer's standpoint as well. Source: http://www.dailywire.com/news/7226/7-things-you-need-know-about-alton-sterling-pardes-seleh
Reigon says2016-07-07T11:23:28.1213207Z
I completely agree with Vox's standpoint, people only look at race and see white officer shoot black guy.
RookieApologist says2016-07-07T14:05:31.0082957Z
There isn't enough information yet to determine whether this was a justified shooting or not. Sure the video looks bad, but no they did not shoot him in the head as OP says. He was shot in the chest. We also have these facts to go on, besides what is seen in the video: A 911 call was made saying that Alton Smith had a gun and had threatened someone. That's why the cops were there in the first place. Alton Smith was on probation already and had a record of aggravated assault and domestic assault, among others, so no this was not some random nice guy just selling CDs. As also seen on the video, Alton Smith did not comply with police orders. Also seen on the video is a proper escalation of force used by police. They first ordered him to get down. He did not comply. They used a taser on him, which did not work. They then tackled him and he still resisted arrest. He also presumably had a gun, and we cannot see his hands in the video. If they were in any way reaching for a gun, then the shooting is absolutely justified. If he was not reaching for a gun, then the shooting is horrible, and the cops should go to jail and receive the maximum punishment. But to act like this is a racial lynching is absurd. If two white cops wanted to just go kill a black guy, they wouldn't do it in the front of a store where there are a bunch of other black people with cell phone cameras recording it.
Gareth_BM says2016-07-07T16:19:27.9727642Z
I've heard a lot of conflicting information. A lot of people say that he had a gun but I've come people say that he was reaching for a weapon other's say it was only in his pocket and he never tried to use it.
RookieApologist says2016-07-07T16:59:49.3862017Z
You still can't have a gun in your pocket, or anywhere else, which he would have carrying illegally since he was on parole, wrestle with police, resist arrest and then be surprised if you get shot.
Libertarian_Jacquelyn says2016-07-07T18:02:45.9833397Z
We can't know whether it was justified or not because like always the Liberal media has obscured the truth. We have very little facts as of now. But I'm leaning towards it being, yes, justified. This man was reported by civilians for threatening someone with a firearm, he was a registered sex offender, and he was offering resistance to police according to witness testimony. That testimony came from someone who was black. Is it tragic that he died? Yes, but as far as the evidence so far goes, it seems justified to me. Since there is no latter option, I'm going with yes.
tajshar2k says2016-07-07T18:41:55.7952025Z
I think we shouldn't jump to conclusions, but considering the racial issues we still have, I can understand people who think otherwise.
dietorangesoda says2016-07-07T21:18:53.8371277Z
#reigon it doesn't matter what the guy did in the past who cares if he was a felon it's irrelevant the cops still can't shoot him in the head and that sex offender charge is bogus he was in his 20's for god's sake it's not like he touched a 7 yr old why do people always think that just because someone has a record their life somehow means less when they are killed?
Reigon says2016-07-07T21:21:17.3910883Z
LifeLight they did use a taser, he continued to resist arrest. You knowledge of the entire scenario is lacking.
Reigon says2016-07-07T21:32:22.1131554Z
@dietorangesoda it does matter. His past shows the type of person he is, EVERYONE should care for whether he was a felon or not. Felony-a crime, typically one involving violence, regarded as more serious than a misdemeanor, and usually punishable by imprisonment for more than one year or by death. If you were a police officer would you treat a sex offender the same as a law abiding civilian? Given their line of work I'd be prejudice AF against a sex offender who was charged with illegal possession of weapons and marijuana. Again he was NOT shot in the head. A sex offender IS a sex offender regardless, it's the law. You may not value the law but most of us do. A record does not mean their life is worthless but honestly who do you value more? A law abiding doctor or a thug who contributes nothing to the world? The record simply indicates this person is to be treated with caution, be weary of when around. Think about it would you mind living in an apartment full of sex offenders? Exactly. This criminal as stated by Libertarian_Jacquelyn "This man was reported by civilians for threatening someone with a firearm, he was a registered sex offender, and he was offering resistance to police according to witness testimony." If you were a police officer approaching this man after a call stating he was threatening someone with a firearm would you take be all nice and friendly with Alton Sterling? Would you let him do whatever he wants when he's resisting arrest? I never said Alton Sterling deserves to die but I looked at the officer's perspective, and given the facts laid out so far I find it hard to sympathize for the loss of Alton Sterling. Do you know how this could've been prevented? If Alton Sterling was a law abiding citizen, didn't carrying a gun while on probation etc etc.
dietorangesoda says2016-07-08T02:21:59.4494391Z
The sex offender thing is garbage yes obviously if he liked children i wouldn't think much of it but come on having sex with your gf when your weren't much older then a teen yourself hardly warrants being a sex offender and once again your only showing how hard hearted you are my brother is a felon but if he was shot would you say the same thing abt him? Yes the cops had every right to take precaution with alton however instead they just slammed him to the ground and killed him that's a problem and i see that a lot with cops they are so quick to man handle people now before they've even had a chance to do anything
Dilara says2016-07-08T04:30:04.4019013Z
There have been some people including black people defending the cops.
bhakun says2016-07-08T04:32:00.7380534Z
The type of person he was should not really be a factor. Yes, he was a sex offender. However, being a sex offender and "resisting arrest" are not justifications for execution without trial.
Dilara says2016-07-08T04:34:39.8840672Z
Diet. He was shot in the chest not the head. He was possibly reaching for his gun meaning that the shooting was justified. Its not that his life meas less. We are saying that he was not a gentle giant.
Dilara says2016-07-08T04:37:58.1301380Z
Diet. My god. They did not slam alton to he ground randomly. They tried to arrest him, he resisted, they tased him, that didnt work, and they shot him when he reached for his gun . If your brother is a violent felon ad he died committing a crime i would have less sympathy.
Dilara says2016-07-08T04:39:05.9242299Z
Bhanun. Reaching for his gun while resisting arrest, if thats what happened, is justification for shooting him.
dietorangesoda says2016-07-08T04:49:29.9050293Z
You need to watch the video again
Eqcuis says2016-07-08T04:58:50.4862095Z
If it was a white guy, this wouldn't have happened. They shot that man multiple times in his chest WHILE holding him down on the ground and there were 2 of them, 2 damn cops. If it was a white guy, they wouldn't have even approached him. That cop held that man down and pointed that gun directly at his chest, the man couldn't even have time to reach for a gun and the shop owner said the man had permission to sell CD's in front of his store and also said that the man was not carrying a gun and didn't reach for any weapon. Color is actually a big factor in a lot of these things and many people don't see it because they've never personally experienced it or their privilege prevents them from experiencing it. They have this man's body on the cover of a magazine, that's disrespectful as hell. Justified or not, they wouldn't have shot a white man multiple times in his chest for selling CD's or carrying a gun.
Eqcuis says2016-07-08T06:24:50.1768406Z
Isn't the criminal history of sterling irrelevant considering the cops didn't know his history, they just went up to him, tackled him and kill him, didn't run any kind of background check, just tackled him to the floor and shot him multiple times. There really are no excuses.He couldn't do anything, couldn't even reach for the supposed gun he had. Even if he was in trouble for copyright, that doesn't mean they have a right to shoot him.
Reigon says2016-07-08T11:56:29.9388164Z
Dietorangesoda NO he was not shot in the head, YOU need to watch the video again. Http://www.Thedailybeast.Com/articles/2016/07/06/new-video-shows-alton-sterling-was-not-holding-a-gun-when-baton-rogue-police-killed-him.Html LOOK AT IT HE WAS SHOT IN THE CHEST NOT HEAD.
Reigon says2016-07-08T12:07:41.6358170Z
You should learn the definition of sex offender-a person who commits a crime involving a sexual act. It does not mean he liked children he's a god damn criminal. Once again I don't make up the laws but I value them, if you break the law you pay the price it's as simple as that. If it was just the sex offender charge Alton would have a better defense but once again he was charged for illegal possession of weapon and marijuana. Clearly a law abiding citizen in Alton's situation would have more leverage for his situation compared to a thug such as Alton. Well could be from my standpoint but me and my family follow the law and contribute the society, we chose not to commit crimes. If your brother a felon committed was in the same position as Alton Sterling I'd say the same sh*t I'm saying now. Once again you neglect to watch the video and other sources available. Let me explain to you the entire situation again: The police got a call about Alton Sterling threatening people with a firearm. Alton Sterling with his criminal background was on probation, he carried a gun illegally because someone was recently mugged in his area. Regardless of his intentions his reason for carrying the gun is ILLEGAL. When the cops arrived HE resisted arrest he wasn't just slammed to the ground. He was tazed and continued to resist arrest. Now here's the part where no proof has been provided yet, NOT one source can state whether he reached for his gun or not. WE HAVE not see a clear source of that, what we did see is a one officer stating he's reaching for his gun prompting the other office to shoot him in the CHEST not head. If he reached for his gun and the officers did not respond the officers would be injured INSTEAD, you're neglecting to look at the officer's standpoint. Afterwards one of the officers pulled a GUN out of his pocket. That's what we know, once again I never said he deserved to die, but given the scenario it seems as if the police officers are right on this one. IF there is proof he did not reach for his gun I will condemn the officer's action, BUT THERE IS NONE. As of right now the officers are in the clear as far as I can see from all sources available currently.
dietorangesoda says2016-07-08T23:45:46.0318243Z
Once again i get it i've seen the video twice now but whatever hope your never put in that situation cuz then maybe you'll see how it feels
Reigon says2016-07-08T23:50:38.1904971Z
You have not as Alton resisted arrest, and was not show in the head. Please show me where Alton was shot in the head. IF I was in Alton's position it's quite simple, I'd put my hands up, not resist arrest AND tell them I have a god damn gun in my pocket. I wouldn't PUT myself in even more trouble because I'm somewhat competent.
dietorangesoda says2016-07-08T23:59:13.7455136Z
Hahaha omg u really think that would save u? Not if you were black look at what just happened in Minnesota perfect example right there
Reigon says2016-07-09T00:11:03.9371544Z
Well yeah why would it not? THOSE officers had bodycams, they knew there were witnesses to record the entire scene, they knew the store has a camera. If those officers were truly out to get "blacks" they wouldn't shoot someone with so much evidence around. RACE DOES NOT GOD DAMN MATTER, it's people like you that seem to think it does. Sorry I'm not a criminal, I obey the law and don't resist arrest. That's probably why I haven't had an issue with law enforcement. You do realize one scenario does not represent the ENTIRE law enforcement agency right? Cops kill more Caucasians in the line of duty, is there a reason why we don't hear about white people being shot up? That doesn't get the media ratings white officers shooting black people does, because it angers uneducated liberals such as yourself.
dietorangesoda says2016-07-09T00:46:20.9254814Z
Omg u r a fucking idiot i seem to remember how pissed everyone was when that white homeless man was beaten to death by cops in California and of course got no charges and no duh white people get shot more cuz there more of the population however blacks and Latino's are targeted more by police and this isn't about one case it's about the fact that you are naive enough to believe that the criminal justice system and police are all just gonna handle themselves properly but then again you have said that both and your family follow the law so of course you wouldn't understand how it works and i'm assuming your white as well so once again naivety plays on your side
Reigon says2016-07-09T00:59:09.3784507Z
Your lack of education is quite prevalent. One scenario 5 years ago huh? Here's a statistic you don't know about, African Americans make up 12 of the population yet they commit 23% of violent crimes? Why is that? Pretty sure that's a factor you and so many others ignore. Once again the actions of the FEW do not represent the majority. Does a few renegade officers who commit heinous acts represent the majority of law enforcement? No. I have YET to see one protest against police murder against Caucasians, Asians, Latinos etc. Why isn't Obama talking "BLACK COP SHOOTS AND KILLS 6-YEAR OLD WHITE BOY WITH AUTISM"? Or "Unarmed White Teen Gunned Down by Black Cop… Where’s the Outrage?"RACE DOES NOT MATTER it's people like you that make it matter. Oh so because we contribute to society and obey laws we don't understand people who do the opposite? Sorry for not breaking the law, hurting others and actually doing something with our lives. I truly apologize for my heinous actions in life. What's wrong with being white? I'm actually Asian, I refuse to look at race as you and so many others do. You preach against racism yet you're obsessed with race why is that?
dietorangesoda says2016-07-09T01:19:05.0968532Z
Clearly your just too naive to get it yes black people commit more crimes and that a problem that the black community needs to fix believe me i've called the black community out many times however i'm not so naive as to think that their is a problem with police targeting profiling and in some cases killing them i can put myself in a black person's shoes and i can see why it would be frustrating to have your race shit on constantly having everything negative your race does constantly on tv and the internet how would you like it if everything bad asians did was put on places such as fox news and on fb and your race was talked constant shit abt? You probably would feel differently
Dilara says2016-07-09T04:41:58.2537504Z
Danielle not all cops are racist.
Dilara says2016-07-09T04:45:43.5688833Z
Eqcuis Police would have approached a white man committing a crime or who matched the description of one who was. BTW this guy had a gun on him and may have been reaching for it. Whites have been victims of police brutality and the ones who have were not "privileged"
Dilara says2016-07-09T04:48:11.1165207Z
Eqcuis The cops tried to arrest sterling but he resisted. Thats why they tackled him. They did not just approach and assault him. He was possible shot for reaching for a gun and that this was self defense.
Dilara says2016-07-09T04:51:58.3036896Z
Wat happened in Minnesota is just one example diet.
Dilara says2016-07-09T04:53:51.2342613Z
Dietorangeosoda Black people are more likely to commit violent crimes and therefore more likely to get into violent altercations with police.
Dilara says2016-07-09T04:56:03.3688023Z
Not all cops are bad. You dont need to be a criminal to understand how the law works. BTW plenty of whites experience police brutality.
Reigon says2016-07-09T11:47:23.2291674Z
Actually dietorangesoda you just proved my point, why is all of mainstream media putting up negative articles about the actions of a few bad cops? Does those few cops represent the majority? I was raised with actual American values, I don't look at race I don't give a sh*t about race we're all humans. It's outdated to continuously obsesses yourself with race so I wouldn't give a sh*t about "everything bad asians did was put on places such as fox news and on fb" So you admit it? African Americans commit more crimes in comparison to the population they make up, why don't we fix that first? Does it automatically mean all African Americans are criminals? Of course not but statistics has shown they commit more crimes than any other race. So again why are movements such as BLM fighting against the police when they should be fixing crime rates within their race since they care so much about it? How does the media shit on the black race exactly? I don't see the media obsessing over black officers shooting white people but I've sen numerous mainstream articles written about white officers shooting black men, protests against the police many of those protests are yelling "KILL COPS", KILLINGS against the police etc. I've heard obsession towards race is related to racism.
dietorangesoda says2016-07-09T17:16:43.4948337Z
As much as we would like to ignore race it still exists and continues to be a powerful part of our communities it's not as simple as just ignoring it as most minorities already know black people do need to speak out against some of the crime but the fact of the matter is as one black woman has stated we already have systems in place to deal with black crime we put those criminals in jail however we have no system for these cops who shoot black people unjustly most often they just get away with it and as far as the media goes think about fox news all they do is shit on black single mothers black men and their crime rates ignoring all the black men who aren't criminals and are being fathers to their children there constantly race baiting us
Reigon says2016-07-09T18:19:51.0743129Z
People obsessing with race promotes the racism you want to rid the world of. Sure racism exists but it's at a low level, would I get offended by being called a chink? No, I'm not going to cry myself a river over that. Uh no, it doesn't look like that. It's the same god damn system whether a cop shoots a White, Black, Muslim person it's all the same. You're talking about how biased Fox News is but what about CNN? CNN promotes welfare: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SCB1t28nDU Such as in this video, this lady is on welfare yet has designer clothes, an iPhone, buys junk food such as soda etc. So aren't you going to fight against people who abuse welfare? Is there a reason why statistically black men abandon their family leaving a single parent more than any other ethnicity? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FszQelEQ2KY Statistics don't lie, does that mean all blacks are criminals? Obviously not Does it mean all black children grow up fatherless? Obviously not. But statistics have shown it's more likely. That's the problem, people continue to associate them self based on race. And races often have a culture behind them, whether positive or negative the African American culture values acting as if they're victims over bettering themselves by blaming everything on race. Does that mean all African Americans value that culture? No but a good portion does.
dietorangesoda says2016-07-09T18:57:04.0885385Z
I can assure racism does not exist at a low level you think it does because your Asian and your race isn't hated on to any real degree are there some people racist towards Asians? Yes probably but most folk like Asians and consider them good people however there's been a whole other history between blacks and whites and it continues on to this very day Asians were never treated the way blacks were i agree with you that the black community has fundamental flaws in it however i cannot just blow away the very real and still prevalent history between the 2 groups
Reigon says2016-07-09T21:20:18.5265192Z
Once again talking about my race huh? Isn't that kind of racist to say because "your" Asian blah blah blah? Sure racism exists but is it the mainstream view to think racist is acceptable? Actually Asians do experience racism, "small dick" "math genius" "nerd" etc etc. Just like any other race, it doesn't god damn matter as it's often just a joke. Where was your history teacher? Asians are a minority and just like any other minority they faced discrimination. 2/3 of the transcontinental railroad was built by the Chinese under terrible working conditions, meager pay, death from hazardous working conditions etc. What about the Chinese exclusion act? Or the Japanese internment camps? Ever heard of any of those? RACISM existed but as time passed just like with any other race, racism has become nearly extinct in the 21st century. It's quite moot at this point a couple of racists does not represent the millions of people out there. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Asians are a minority group who faced discrimination just like any other race but Asian immigrants often instill hard work onto their children. My parents were immigrants, we lived on subsidized housing at one point but they worked their ass off. Let me ask you one thing, if immigrants who don't even speak the language can raise a family together in America and start a business from the ground up employing 50~ people why can't natives who know the language? Asian culture by far values education http://www.governing.com/gov-data/education-data/state-high-school-graduation-rates-by-race-ethnicity.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We're a minority yet we often have graduation rates similar to those of the majority Caucasians. Does it mean every Asian is smart? No I'm not the best student but I at least give an effort, I don't go around saying yeah it's all white people's fault for my failures. I accept my failures and move on towards bettering myself. Why don't African Americans develop similar values so they can prosper in education which in turn will decrease violent crimes in turn create less police shootings.
Reigon says2016-07-09T21:21:56.9787503Z
Once again it's all statistics not racism. It does not mean every Asian is smart. It does not mean every black person is dumb.
dietorangesoda says2016-07-09T21:56:18.0258821Z
Omg I've never face palmed so hard yes of course Asians faced discrimination on the past and yes Asians culture definitely has better values when it comes to education although not always south Asian gangs come to mind however Asians were never treated the same way that black people were they weren't enslaved they weren't segregated they weren't lynched they aren't being killed and profiled by police hell after WW2 black GI's couldn't get loans to buy a house and were forced to live in ghetto's all of that breeds a bad mentality in people that's why black culture is what it is today your parents may have instilled hard work in you but that was a cultural benefit that most black children just don't have why can't you see that? And as far as racism being almost non existent once again look at fox news look at tomi lahren hell look at fucking Donald trump and his little cult of followers David duke is another prominent figure out there and believe me his following isn't as small as you'd want it to be
Reigon says2016-07-09T22:29:34.8455621Z
Omg you accuse me of being white then when I state I'm Asian you make racist remarks against both whites and Asians, now you want to cry a river? When did I say every Asian is perfect? "Once again it's all statistics not racism. It does not mean every Asian is smart. It does not mean every black person is dumb." Does the truth hurt? OBVIOUSLY THERE ARE ASIAN GANGS AND TROUBLE MAKERS. You clearly flunked history so let me educate you. You ever heard of Koreamatsu V. United States? Of course not. Were African Americans killed for Japan instigating Pearl Harbor? Did African Americans lose everything they had? Did they face racism for Japan's actions? Were they forced into interment camps? That's what Japanese Americans faced during WW2. Now tell me, DO THOSE ACTIONS STILL EXIST TODAY? OF COURSE NOT, JUST LIKE THE JIM CROW LAWS THEY'RE NON EXISTENT IN THE 21ST CENTURY. Did I ever deny African Americans faced racism? NO.
Reigon says2016-07-09T22:36:44.9559192Z
Once again why does the African American community always victimize itself and make it about race? Why don't they fix those violent crime statistics. I guarantee you police shootings will lower itself accordingly. Do you really want to make it about politics? Hmm you're an Obama supporter huh? "So-called civil rights activist and race-baiter the Rev. Al Sharpton has been to the White House nearly 100 times since 2009 and regularly provides consultation on race issues to the president. Obama and Holder went out of their way to participate in events for Sharpton’s National Action Network and proudly displayed his logo behind them during speeches. " Rev Al Sharpton stated "kill white people and cops" great guy huh? Oh what about Hillary Clinton? With her email scandal anyone else would not be still running for POTUS. Instead they'd be in an orange jumpsuit breaking rocks into smaller rocks at Ft. Leavenworth but that's Hillary for ya! Is there a reason why Anti trump protesters are instigating riots at Trump rallies? I can tell given your miraculous intelligence you'll accuse me of being a Trump supporter, I am not.
dietorangesoda says2016-07-09T23:30:54.6162452Z
Personally i can't stand hillary clinton i voted for bernie sanders in the primary and i'm not voting in the election cuz i hate my options and i never said that you liked trump i don't care who you like but trump has made some very inflammatory statements and his followers eat it up and before him fox news did plenty of race baiting themselves so before you talk abt al sharpton and such make sure your ranks are perfect have u seen tomi lahren's racist rant abt jesse williams speech? And i don't even agree with everything he said i agree there is a victim culture in black america however i also can see how it came to be and when did i insult asians and whites? I am white and i'm certainly not racist
Reigon says2016-07-10T00:51:21.9827243Z
Of course you didn't but if I did not state that you would've accused me of being a Trump supporter because I bashed Obama/Hillary while defending Trump supporters rights. Your following statements that led me to accusing you of being racist- "i'm assuming your white as well so once again naivety plays on your side" "I can assure racism does not exist at a low level you think it does because your Asian and your race isn't hated on to any real degree are there some people racist towards Asians? " If those individuals said a racist remark of course I don't support it, but how do they exactly represent racism? The actions of a few do not represent the majority. Are the racists that you've stated committing or promoting violence against others based on ethnicity? That's the issue, "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt." People can say whatever the hell they want but it doesn't make it true, facts and statistics do.
dietorangesoda says2016-07-10T01:59:22.1264789Z
I say that not out of racism but because i see so many white people who i believe are very naive about things pertaining to race they really don't see why and how black people came to be the way they are nor do they see their hand in it i used to roll my eyes when people talked abt white privilege but now i see what their talking about to some extent and i feel like a lot of whites don't see it because were so immersed in it and naivety does play on your side when it comes to the criminal justice system because you haven't been in it nor had a family member been in it you don't understand how it truly works until you've gone through it's not just you many white people i know are very naive when it comes to this because most of us haven't been through it but i have with my brother so i know how it works and i'm telling you it is the biggest load of bs that u can imagine it needs a serious reform
Dilara says2016-07-10T04:51:20.9374247Z
Diet. We have systems to deal with black crime but its still too high. How many cases can you name where cops got away with killing innocent black men? A couple right. The only news sources that trash certain black people are ultra right wing ones like fox. The reason black people are more likely to be killed by police is because the are more likely to commit crimes. What do you mean by history between black and white people? 1.4% of white Americans owned slaves. Certain white groups like Irish and Italians faced discrimination. I dont see why you think whites had a hand in making the state of black America what it is. As said before, most whites didn't own slaves. Plenty of whites have been through the criminal justice system and seen its problems. Whites are less likely to go through it because hey are less likely to commit crimes. Whiteness doesn't equal naitivity. Lots of whites have their own problems and dont see how someone could call them privileged.
dietorangesoda says2016-07-10T06:08:54.4790645Z
This isn't abt slavery at all this is about what black have faced since jim crow and beyond and yes white people had a hand in it because who do u think created those policies and supported them? Answer white people yes black commit more crime but most black live in poverty which always breeds crime look at poor white trailer parks aside from that many blacks feel no respect for society and their laws which is understandable considering white society never had much respect for them i do believe white privilege exists but it's mostly class privilege and most whites just don't see it because they are already in a better class by default there's a whole history there abt why blacks stayed poor and ghettoized and it had a lot to do with the policies that white america put in place to keep the black man down
Eqcuis says2016-07-10T07:42:26.2712277Z
"According to the FBI, in 2011, white people committed about 6.58 million crimes; blacks committed 2.7 million. It’s important to understand that these numbers include all forms of crimes, including violent and non-violent, such as property. It’s also important to note that these are crimes that law enforcement is aware of. Issues with this will be talked about in future posts."-https://talkback4teens.Com/2013/08/29/do-blacks-really-commit-the-most-crimes/. There's also this http://www.amren.com/news/2015/07/new-doj-statistics-on-race-and-violent-crime/.
Eqcuis says2016-07-10T07:45:30.0404057Z
Tbh, I don't know how credible either of those sites are.
Eqcuis says2016-07-10T07:48:57.3033343Z
There are also these: http://downtrend.com/71superb/new-study-says-whites-racist-view-black-criminals-criminals. http://www.aim.org/special-report/black-criminals-white-victims-and-white-guilt/. https://mic.com/articles/57407/why-whites-commit-crimes-but-blacks-are-criminals#.QEYlxQq98 don't know how credible they are though.
Eqcuis says2016-07-10T07:51:30.7615180Z
And these, don't know how credible they are though. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/31/the-counted-police-killings-2015-young-black-men. http://mappingpoliceviolence.org/unarmed/
Reigon says2016-07-10T21:59:55.5500260Z
Isn't it racist to say "i'm assuming your white as well so once again naivety plays on your side" based on "many white people who i believe are very naive about things pertaining to race......"--------------------------------------------------------------------- "they are nor do they see their hand in it i used to roll my eyes when people talked abt white privilege" How exactly did caucasians of this generation have their hand in it? There hasn't been a slave owner since the end of the Civil War. Slavery has also long existed long before the British colonized America, back then there were slaves of all colors. Africans also enslaved themselves and sold slaves to Europeans. Does that mean Blacks of this generation have a hand in slavery aka racism? Fk no. If my ancestor did some fk'd up sh*t does that mean I should pay for their crimes? -- My main argument is not about the justice system but on the death of Alton Sterling, sure I'm naive because I follow the law. You're so right! We should let criminals develop the justice system that'll be fair! Thank you though, I've always wondered why we go to school why we need education. You've answered my question.
dietorangesoda says2016-07-11T01:26:14.1947643Z
Once again this doesn't have anything to do with slavery why do u keep bringing it up? I don't see any black people bringing it up either and yes white people have had a hand in the problems of black culture because of our policies and people's personal racism it's both sides not just one stop picking one side and wholeheartedly defending it that's the problem in this country the criminal justice system needs a huge reform hell these prisons do as well people come out worse off then when they went in it does little to rehabilitate criminals so that they can become productive members of society i'm saying your naive because you've never experienced it it's not like u went to prison for some petty crime and came out angrier and worse as a whole or watched a friend or family member go through it either that's where your naive
Dilara says2016-07-11T04:46:05.0533533Z
Most white people did not have enough power to create policies. Not having respect for a society is no reason to commit a violent crime.
Dilara says2016-07-11T04:49:00.8687343Z
Eqcuis. White people are 73% of the population so in terms of absolute numbers they commit more crimes. But black people are 12% of the population and commit similar amounts of crime as whites in terms of numbers therefor are more likely to commit crimes.
dietorangesoda says2016-07-11T05:07:12.2506999Z
Dilara i'm talking about our white government not all white people as a whole and your Muslim right? Do Muslims in Europe have much respect for the law? Doesn't seem like it to me why? Because they feel that Europe and the U.S as well don't respect them or their culture they feel white and non muslim society is against them so they rail against it of course it isn't right but nonetheless it's how they feel
Dilara says2016-07-11T13:18:06.9803251Z
Dietorangesoda Our white government? With our black president? I used to be Muslim and I have family who are. Muslims in Europe being less likely to respect the law is entirely different from what you're saying. The Muslims who come to Europe from Africa and the middle east tend to be uneducated and low iq and from subcultures that don't respect women. For this reason Muslims in Europe are more likely to commit violent crimes especially violent sexual crimes. The Muslims who come to America are more likely to be educated and high iq so they commit less crimes and often have good jobs. Some of the cultural traits Muslims bring to Europe are absurd and should not be respected. Most of these traits like FGM, child marriage and rape culture have more to do with cultures than religion. People not respecting their culture is no excuse for them to commit high amounts of sexual violence against native European women. Maybe white societies in Europe are turning against Muslim societies because of the high crime rates among Muslims in Europe.
dietorangesoda says2016-07-11T18:55:36.6162063Z
The president is only one person most of our government is white ok forget crime rated what about all the muslims that are european and american born that go join isis? Don't they have high iq and a better environment? Yes but because they feel european society is against their religion they feel disrespected it's like if society suddenly said that all blonde people were inferior and pushed us down i would probably feel so disrespected by society i wouldn't have much respect for it and so crimes by blonde haired people would probably go up
Reigon says2016-07-11T23:14:46.8204700Z
It doesn't racism has nothing to do with slavery? Mkay, slavery was the key behind racism. Racism as existed LONG before Caucasians even became an ethic group. How were the Japanese able to kill 10~ million Chinese without feeling sorrow? Racism, but do we see sh*t like that today? No. As a matter of face genocides and ethic cleansing are persistent among Africans and Middle Eastern countries. But no Caucasians are the key to racism right? Death to white people right? Once again racism wasn't just between Caucasians and Blacks, EVERY ethic group experienced racism. Do you want me to refer back to what the Japanese endured during WWII? My point is racism is nearly extinct in the US, within a span of less than a century, people fought to end racism. It was FAR from the epidemic you think it is. No a racist joke does not mean racism is prevalent, one racist guy does not mean the world is just like him. When did this get to the justice system? Our initial argument is the death of Alton Sterling yes? The justice system is a WHOLE other topic, we have fought for desegregation in cases such as Brown Vs. Board of Education. If I'm naive for not being a criminal or associating with them then so is our entire government, police officer etc. We should let criminals make up the rules yes? Let's make it a requirement for the POTUS to have been in prison for breaking a law, that way he or she won't be naive right? As a saying goes "if you don't want to do the time, don't do the crime"
Dilara says2016-07-11T23:26:31.4613869Z
Dietorangesoda You have horrible grammar. Most of our government is white because people, including black people voted for them. Muslims form the west who join ISIS are mostly educated and IDEOLOGICALLY DRIVEN. They get into radical Islam and join that group. Others start out as street thugs and than join ISIS. European society being against your religion is o excuse to blow people up. This is the bigotry of low expectations. You are excusing violent criminals and rapists because they are of a certain background. European society not liking Islam is no excuse for Muslim migrants who have lived off of tax payers to rape native European women. That is absurd. Disrespect is not the reason for the high crime rates among Muslim in Europe. The people who come to Europe from the Muslim world are more likely to be uneducated, poor and for regressive sexist sub cultures. They often choose to not integrate and live in welfare ghettos. This is why they commit so much crime especially sexual crime. The Muslims who come to America are usually more educated, and not from regressive sub cultures so they commit less crime and usually take good jobs. You're literally being a rape apologist.
dietorangesoda says2016-07-12T00:20:24.2984104Z
@region slavery was a long time ago and most blacks are not bringing it up now but you seem to forget that there is a history of racism that goes long after slavery all the way to the 60's when blacks had to literally go out in the streets to fight to integrate the schools as well as other places like water fountains and swimming pools chinese and japanese people are both asian so it isn't racism it was nationalism that allowed the japanese to kill so many chinese racism isn't the only form of prejudice. Ethnic cleansing is a problem in africa and the middle east mostly due to tribal conflict and i never said only whites can be perpetrators of racism or violence my point isn't that black people don't have fundamental flaws in their culture it was more to try to make you understand that blacks have had to deal with things especially policies that kept them down ghettoizing them was a huge mistake because when you do that people a bad mentality gets bred up such as the muslims living in ghetto's in europe and even the chinese community got a taste of it when gangs suddenly sprang up in little china that was my point
dietorangesoda says2016-07-12T00:26:42.9800926Z
@dilara i didn't say it was right that they do it and that they must fix so of their cultural problems but how would you like it if you thought people were against you? Just recently i watched a video of a group of christians who came to a mosque during eid celebration and stood out there with signs saying horrible things about their prophet and yelling and screaming at them we've also had armed men come to mosques to parade around and scare people. Just recently a man was stabbed to death going into his mosque these are all things that aren't going to make muslims feel welcome in western society that breeds anger and anger breeds violence. It just does there's no getting around that however i have no low expectations of anyone and i believe in peaceful protest only and i don't agree with violence i'm just saying have a little understanding for what it must feel to come to a place where so many people hate you/your religion/your culture
Dilara says2016-07-12T04:42:56.2130671Z
Dietorangesoda. Most of the Muslim in Europe's welfare ghettos CHOOSE TO BE THERE. They choose not to get jobs, but to live off of welfare. They come to these countries for the welfare states. I grew up Muslim and I had people against me because of 9/11. I have "understanding" of what its like to have people hate my religion. Right now as a white person there are people against me.Http://www.Cbsnews.Com/news/dallas-shooting-suspect-kill-whites/ http://www.cbsnews.com/news/cops-tennessee-shooter-targeted-white-victims-similar-to-dallas-ambush/ But that is no reason to rape someone! That is not the reason for the high violent crime rates among Muslim in Europe. Why are you sympathizing wot rapists? The events youre talking about where armed rednecks harassed mosque goers happened in America. In America Muslims are 1% of the population but 10% of doctors. In America ethnic groups that are mostly Muslim like Pakistanis, Turks, Lebanese, Iranians, and Syrians are some of the wealthiest groups. By your logic these successful educated Muslim Americans should be committing lots of violent crime because of the discrimination they face but they're not. Why is it that Muslim Europeans have higher violent crime rates than Muslim Americans? Because its easier to get to Europe from the middle east, Africa and S Asia (where most Muslims are from) than it is to get to America from those places. Therefor the people who go to Europe from those places are more likely to not have had the means of getting to America. The didn't have the means of getting here because they are uneducated. They often come from uneducated, low income areas with regressive sub cultures. And a lot have low IQs making them more likely to commit violent crimes. The Muslims who have the means of getting to America are usually more educated and are not from low income areas with regressive sub cultures. The Muslims who come to America are also likely to have higher IQs. This is why Muslim Americans commit less crimes than Muslims in Europe. Not feeling welcome is not part of this. In fact European counties are welcoming in hundreds of thousands of Muslim migrants and giving them welfare. How could they not feel welcome by Europe when European countries are inviting them in and giving them free stuff? How could they be anything other than appreciative? Why do you want me to "understand" and sympathize with violent criminals even rapists? You're being a rape apologist.
dietorangesoda says2016-07-12T05:31:09.3043024Z
I'm not saying sympathize with rapists and you know i'm not completely sure i even agree with the racial iq gaps because there's a lot of debate about it in the scientific community i think one reason european muslims tend to be worse is europe let too many of them too quickly and when you do that with ANY group people don't tend to assimilate when there in larger numbers and yes europe is closer. So more of them can get in i agree however let's not overlook the fact that many of them are good people who don't rape or cause trouble and that because of the wars and destabilization of the region they had no choice but to flee. I believe many of them especially those from iraq afghanistan and syria are suffering from PTSD because they were in a war zone and saw terrible things and PTSD makes people more violent there's so many factors to consider
Dilara says2016-07-12T19:42:31.4547966Z
Dietorangesoda Trying to understated why rapists rape s sympathizing with them. Who said anything about racial IQ gaps? I specifically said that people from Africa and the middle east who come to America are often more educated, less regressive and have higher IQs than the ones who go to Europe because its harder to get to America from there. I agree that European Muslims are less assimilated because of the mass migration. Its not just that Europe allowed too many in to quickly. If Europe allowed over 1 million smart educated doctors from the Muslim world in all within a year, those immigrants would not be committing high levels of crime. Because the 1million + people Europe allowed in too quickly are mostly from regressive sub cultures, uneducated, all ready violet and low IQ you get the crime wave. Its not like all are criminals but they have higher violent crime rates than other demographics in Europe. Even after living in Europe for years they still are more likely to commit crimes. In Sweden for example people with an immigrant background are less than 10% of the population but commit 80% of rapes. Id like to point out that most of the Muslim immigrants who came to Europe in 2015 were economic migrants and were not fleeing war. According to the European Commission 60% were economic migrants and according to the European Union 20% were Syrian. If most of these violent criminals coming in were not from war zones how could PTSD explain it? They were taking advantage of the actual refugees situation to go to European countries with generous welfare states. The actual refugees are not as likely to commit violent crimes as the economic migrants. Even the refugees that are committing violent crimes have no excuse. PTSD is no reason to rape someone.
Reigon says2016-07-13T00:03:59.3609225Z
It seems to be at the core of arguments against racism in America. We constantly see African Americans bringing up slavery while tho see responsible are long gone. I wonder why we don't hear people constantly bringing up interments camps. Of course the 60s was the civil rights movement, as stated in my previous comment one of them was Brown Vs Board of Education. None of those racist jim crow laws exist today, we fought against racism and it has become nearly extinct in America like my point said it's far from an issue, instead it is popularized for certain races to play the racist card. So you're saying Chinese and Japanese discrimination isn't racism? Okay so if someone called the British, French, Swedish or German people trash it's not racist in any way right? If we called all Europeans eurotrash it's not racist right? Discrimination ISN'T only against racism, what about terrorists? They view all of the "West" and infidels, but that's not racist because at all. What about Hitler do your really think Hitler wasn't racist against the Jews or Gypsies because they are not a race? If you didn't know definition of racism-a person who believes that a particular race is superior to another. So because the Chinese and Japanese are both Asian it's not racist? Tell the Africans who are victims of genocides by other Africans that their assailant is not racist. You're allowing African Americans to generalize and promote their victimization culture by creating an excuse for them, which law currently in existence is racist against African Americans? None, RACISM is unconstitutional. Guess who declared it unconstitutional? The evil Caucasians! You're creating excuses for people to break laws, to blame others for their failures and not take the initiative to better themselves. OF course there will be gangs, criminals etc. The issue is how prominent they are, again when African Americans make up 13% of the population, commit 23% of violent crimes and 52% homicides THAT is not okay.
dietorangesoda says2016-07-13T00:24:00.8990096Z
I specifically said that racism isn't the only form of prejudice
Reigon says2016-07-13T14:16:10.2151782Z
How are they a different form of prejudice exactly? You stated there was NO form of racism only nationalism which led to the Japanese hatred of the Chinese which led to a genocide. Oh yeah sources have been provided: http://bluelivesmatter.Blue/alton-sterling-reach-visible-gun/ Alton Sterling WAS reaching for this gun therefore his shooting was justified.
dietorangesoda says2016-07-13T14:20:23.0615990Z
You can't be racist against your own race the japanese hated the chinese not because they were asian but because they were chinese that's nationalism and at the time the japanese were highly nationalistic eastern europeans also tend to be highly nationalistic and often don't get along with one another despite the fact that they are all white countries there are many forms of prejudice from nationalism to xenophobia to homophobia and so on racism isn't the only one
Reigon says2016-07-13T14:33:46.9191519Z
You can be racist against your own race. If I said all chinks have tiny eyes and dicks wouldn't that be racist? Just like you do you really think you can't be racist against Caucasians because you're Caucasian? The Japanese viewed the Chinese as inferior you can't blame it on nationalism alone. Nationalism does not look at race and ethnicity but instead pride in one's countrymen, therefore racism is one of them. People of Chinese background born in Japan faced the Japanese discrimination even though they were born in Japan they were still considered Chinese. Once again you continue to avoid the main argument which was Alton Sterling's death.
dietorangesoda says2016-07-13T16:44:53.2851770Z
It's clear that this conversation has devolved away from alton sterling but your source seems biased to me
Reigon says2016-07-14T19:30:54.5000739Z
It is biased, so is every other mainstream media. Why don't we hear about black on black crime? White on white crime? Black on white crime? Only white on black crime gets ratings as people only care about race. Chicago has one of the most strict gun laws yet black on black shooting occurs daily but you don't hear any mainstream media reporting it. My article is biased but provided facts, you can't avoid facts. On another note http://bluelivesmatter.Blue/alton-sterling-history-assaulting-cops-gun/ Sterling was convicted of the same exact crime previously, again he possessed an illegal firearm resisted arrest and attempted to shoot an officer.
dietorangesoda says2016-07-14T19:38:44.6619153Z
We don't hear about black on black crime because there are already things in place to deal with it when a black person kills another black person he is arrested but the cops often go unchecked and aside from that there are many groups trying to deal with the violence in these inner cities (google the interrupters is Chicago) police brutality is the issue here
Dilara says2016-07-15T03:42:07.0869171Z
Dietorangesoda. In what cases have police gotten away with murdering black people? I can only think of a couple examples. And gang violence is more of a problem.
dietorangesoda says2016-07-15T04:38:41.1450537Z
Eric garner rodney king(not killed but beaten nearly to death) sandra bland freddie gray trayvon martin(not killed by cop but murderer acquitted) tamir rice who was only 12 yrs old the man in s carolina who was shot in the back while running away and if you want to make it an equal issue in 2011 kelly thomas who was a white mentally ill homeless man beaten to death by 6 cops and the jury acquitted them police often go unchecked
Eqcuis says2016-07-15T05:57:25.3789571Z
@dietorangesoda, you could just look here for a list, http://mappingpoliceviolence.org/unarmed/
Reigon says2016-07-15T18:07:46.5497039Z
Uh no, if a cop actually abuses his/her power he is punished. In most cases the cops obeyed standards and regulations, potentially dangerous suspects who act in a threatening way towards officers are the issue. There was an officer who faced 4 years of federal prison after tazing a suspect who resisted arrest. The tazing lasted for 23 seconds, while the suspect actively resisted arrest the officer was still careless and paid the price for his actions. Just in this week alone 7 people were shot and killed, 41 shot and wounded, and 8 homicides in Chicago alone. There would be a sh*t ton less police brutalities if there wasn't so much violent criminals.
Eqcuis says2016-07-15T20:16:02.8282551Z
@dietorangesoda there's no point in arguing or debating with him no more. He obviously isn't going to change his opinion and seems to ignore or deny some of the facts you point out, he also makes some good points though too. There's literally no point anymore though.
dietorangesoda says2016-07-15T21:47:15.8503035Z
Yeah he obviously isn't going to get it
Dilara says2016-07-16T02:21:48.5763907Z
Dietorangesoda. Rodney King had lead police through a high speed car chase and almost killed people. Sandra Bland commit suicide and Trayvon Martin attacked Zimmerman. Out of the 53 million police civilian interactions a year how many end with unjustified killings?
dietorangesoda says2016-07-16T04:36:55.0226809Z
Zimmerman wouldn't have been attacked if he wasn't following trayvon home
Reigon says2016-07-16T19:36:58.5629272Z
Totally, I brought facts into the table and justify my opinion based off that, you have not. Hey Eqcius here's some factors and facts you don't know of. ALL RACES SERVE IN THE LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY. If law enforcement was truly out to get people based on their color wouldn't African American Police Officers stand up against them? Why do African Americans commit 23% of violent crimes while making up 13% of the population? It's quite simple don't break the law, don't resist officers and there would be peace. I've provided proof that showed Alton Sterling was reaching for his gun but I guess you would rather hear about two officers shot by felon sex offender on probation who possessed an illegal firearm right? Again THIS is not about race it's about supporting the law NOT wanna be thugs who threaten officers lives. How do officers know if they're unarmed exactly? It's simple DON'T RESIST ARREST, DON'T COMMIT CRIMES and there would be ALOT less deaths. Source: http://www.amren.com/news/2015/07/new-doj-statistics-on-race-and-violent-crime/ http://bluelivesmatter.blue/alton-sterling-reach-visible-gun/
Reigon says2016-07-16T19:49:20.2384815Z
https://www.facebook.com/625629560787227/videos/1165459566804221/ Without those body cameras so many uneducated BLM individuals would be protesting again police brutality.
Dilara says2016-07-17T03:52:00.4045224Z
Dietorangesoda. I agree. I think Zimmerman is a jerk. He should not have followed Trayvon when the cops told him not to. Following him was irresponsible and stupid. However that is what he did, and when he decided to do that he did not agree to get bashed in the sidewalk. Being irresponsible does not mean you should be assaulted. Shooting Trayvon was self defense. BTW Trayvon was a thug who stole jewelry and fought.
Dilara says2016-07-17T03:54:31.0546881Z
Reigon. They're not going to listen. They won't listen to facts that don't fit the narrative.
dietorangesoda says2016-07-17T07:06:28.4946392Z
I would have attacked him too if he followed me me home (well if i was a guy) that looks suspicious as hell and would make me wonder if you weren't going to rob me or something sounds to me like trayvon attacked him out of fear not anger and what trayvon did before that is irrelevant
Dilara says2016-07-18T04:11:34.6376077Z
Dietorangesoda. You would bang someones head into the concrete and violently punch them when they are WALKING AWAY BACK TO THEIR CAR? Zimmerman was walking away, so Trayvon had to have attacked him out of anger, What Trayvon did in the past is relevant because it tells us about his character and what he was doing to Zimmerman.
dietorangesoda says2016-07-18T04:29:37.9380400Z
How do we know zimmerman was walking away? Did he say that? Cause i wouldn't trust anything out of his mouth
Dilara says2016-07-18T04:30:51.9109989Z
Witness testimony

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