Yes
No
46%
17 votes
54%
20 votes
The question not very clear. Which war are you referring too? If its Afghanistan, then yes, but if its Iraq, then no.
Only Afghanistan was a direct result from 9/11. Iraq was for different reasons.
Now we sort of messed up the war. But it still needed to happen.
I can't blame Bush for going to war in Afghanistan. If you were president, surely you would have taken some action. Sitting back, and doing nothing surely was a way of saying Americans are a bunch of losers.
Yeah taj, but isn't getting to the root of the problem better. If the problem is blowback, why not stop doing things that cause blowback?
I think that was only realized several years later, when the war began to drag on and on. I really do not know what else the U.S could have done after 9/11. We were pretty much scattered and divided.
No, the CIA identified blowback and the causes of it years before that. I mean it's such common knowledge that they probably identified it in the 1970s if not sooner. It's like receiving third degree burn on your hand and as revenge for the third degree burn you put your hand in the fire again to show it whose boss.
But, what could the U.S have done back then, other than going to war?
What we should do is try to wipe out all terrorist cells. By doing this we should send troops into Syria, Iraq, Somlima, and previde support for Libya, Yemen, Nigeria. By doing that we could maybe wipe the terrorist cells out. If we do that with the help of those nations then we could make the world a safer place. Also we where in the right to go to war in afgangstan. Americans died that day, and it was the first attack on US soil sense WW2.
The U.S. Could have withdrawn all troops from the Middle East, stop engaging in proxy wars and stop lending aid to Israel
Stargate, we can not afford to do that anymore. We are in debt, Americans are dying of poverty, we keep funding the War of Drugs, which is pretty much a failure, our politicians are not honest to us, we have growing gun violence. We just cannot do this by ourselves anymore. Those useless countries in Europe will do absolutely nothing to help, yet they have the guts to blame us for everything. We no longer can deal with Radical Islam anymore.
But, how would that have dealt with the problem of Radical Islam and the growing terror threat? Also, withdrawing soldiers makes our country look weak.
The growing terror threat is a direct result of blowback, so you stop doing things that cause blowback, like the things I suggested. The growing terror is no longer a threat for America if you avoid doing things that cause blowback.
I understand that, but we need to. We need our allies to help. I know that if we keep on doing this it could last for years, decades, maybe even centurys.. But it needs to happen. To many civilians die, they are not troops, they are just killed for not flowing Islam, or they speak out against them. In my opinion that is wrong, and it has to stop. Yes people will die if we try to stop them, but the world is returning to a darker time. A time of hate, and paranoia, now the world is walking on egg shells and one wrong steap can make everything come falling down. We have to stop them here and now, stop there senseless killing, stop the slave trade. ( which is still here as strong as ever) If we do not try then more will die, sometimes you have to be ready to pull the trigger.
They will hate us and attack us even if we do nothing. They see us as there biggest threat, and if we do not stop them there strength will only growth. Then one day it might be to late to stop them.
So, your saying if we just didn't get involved in the middle-east, terrorists would stop attacking us?
You can think and say whatever you want about me, and my way of thinking. But is it better to turn our backs on people who have done nothing wrong and get killed and then put into a mass grave? Is it better to let them rape and sell women, and little kids. Is it better to let them do whatever they want. I say no, sometimes you have to draw a line in the sand. I have drawn that line.
Sorry, that comment was for Wytled.
No they will attack us, maybe not right now. But if we stand by and just watch. Then one day you may turn on the news and to your horror see americans die due to terrorism. Terrorism is a cowards way of fighting, you are not fighting troops. No you are killing civilians, civilians who have done nothing to be killied. Civilians who are just minding there own business. We have to ready for the wrost case scenario.
I am explaing why we shouldn't stop fighting. Also I sort of figured that.
Also the comment above yours is just a statement, it was not about your comment.
Oh okay, I thought for a second you got offended or something.
Nope, I didn't get offended. Just a statement, no worries.
The US is the poster boy for western civilization. If you have radical terrorist groups who hate the west, they will NEVER leave us alone. Even if we withdrew all support for Israel, pulled out every soldier, and cut all our political ties to the middle east, they will still find a reason to hate us.
@58539672 - Well behaving our self has never been tried
@TBR We need to be ready for the worst case scenario. We also need to make the world a better place, renove terrorism, remove corrupt governments. It is time for the world to come together as one.
@stargate - Do you think the way to do that is by blowing-up anyone who we disagree with?
Just the statement, it is so arrogant. This isn't our planet, the US doesn't get the the right to do as it pleases by force. That is only a bully.
Only when we have to, I will not sit by and hear of massive corruption, rapes, forced labor, sex slave trade, terrorism, mass killings of civilians. I will not stand for it, and it has to stop. I know words can only do so much, we have to use force to fix this inprefect. I know people will die on both sildes, but I truly believe in my hearts of hearts that this is the only option.
Its certainly a way of doing things. Forcing their culture to change without killing is a long hard battle in itself filled with prejudice inequality and oppression. Killing might be the more efficient and more humane way to rid the world of bad ideas, maybe.
I am sorry but I can not turn a blind eye, also I do research. Also say what you want, but I believe in what I say. I believe that the evils that this world has, needs to end sooner rather then latter.
@TBR If you hate this way of thinking, then tell me how to fix all that, without fighting.
The problem comes when you try to change a culture to what WE think it should be. This is NOT our culture. We have a terrible track record of ever accomplishing any good for the actual people of the middle-east. We can dislike the situation, but the idea that we are going to kill our way to a "better life" for those we sympathize with is not supported by any amount of reason or logic.
@stargate - My solution? Leave them alone. Allow, and help anyone wanting OUT of that hell-hole, but do what they have been asking for forever. LEAVE THEM ALONE. Get off the oil, move away from any dependence that clouds our judgement
"We can dislike the situation, but the idea that we are going to kill our way to a "better life" for those we sympathize with is not supported by any amount of reason or logic."
To be fair, I don't believe we have ever tried this outright. There has always been some level of restraint. Then you end up leaving the place filled with the spared, enraged at us, and the whole cycle starts again.
"LEAVE THEM ALONE."
People attack even when left alone. That isn't a viable option either.
@FreedomBeforeEquality - That is the excuse out of every one of these. Exactly how many do you think we need to kill before they start liking us?
I have to agree. I do not believe they would leave us alone if we didn't engage. The root cause is their religion.
@tajshar2k - They say just about the same thing. ~"If we stop being terrorists, the US is not going to just leave us alone"
Maybe you have to kill until there is no more to be able to like or dislike us. Then you are assured victory?
Thats sorta the concept of removing the "bad eggs", as it were.
@FreedomBeforeEquality - What you suggest is genocide. The idea that because we don't get along, we can wipe-out the entire lot of them is a sickness.
Ya.. I don't think thats how it works... Doesn't explain why Radical Muslims are going to Switzerland and screwing shit up. It's not just American policy. The religion is to blame
"If we stop being terrorists, the US is not going to just leave us alone"
Yeah, so its perpetual ... Until someone outright wins, the game just keeps going on. You cant just stop playing Jumangi here. (j/k) But once someone wins, all the bad effects from the game go away.
@tajshar2k - Its "the west" they hate. I despise Islam. I think the religion is shit, and the people following it are diluted.
Not necessarily ... Im not saying we have to discriminate and kill based on ethnicity or anything. We are talking about ideals here. Something a person has the ability to choose on their own. I'm not advocating the killing over something these people may be born with. Theyve had their whole existence to think things through and come to their conclusion. Now theyd just be reaping the rewards/consequences of those decisions is all.
@FreedomBeforeEquality - No, no.. We can be the fucking adults, and walk away from the argument. We can take care of our own energy needs, and let the crazys sweat it out in one of the most uninteresting places on the gloabe v
They have no reason to hate the West. If they open their eyes, they should see its usually America who screws shit up. Yet they feel like Switzerland needs to suffer. The people are crazy, the religion is crazy. Thats the damn problem. If muslims truly believe their religion is peaceful, they would be doing everything in their power to stop terrorists. The same muslims who hate America, want America to fight ISIS. The hypocrisy is unreal. After a couple years, they will blame America as usual.
I can list a lot more incidents, where muslims in my area simply abuse their rights provided by the constitution, and are simply annoying. I came from a state that has the largest % of muslims.
"They have no reason to hate the West. If they open their eyes, they should see its usually America who screws shit up."
You sound misguided then about what it is that they hate. Look at what the US and Swiss have in common and maybe youll see what the true war there is all about. It's not about the US political crap you hear on the news. Its our cultural practices, social practices, and law they have a problem with. Switzerland is not innocent in their pursuit of socialism and un tethered civil liberty either.
What exactly do they hate about Switzerland? No halal chocolate?
You talk about cultural practices. Nobody is forcing them move to Switzerland them are they?
Im just saying ... Whatever it is you seem to find repulsive about the way the US conducts business is not necessarily what they think is bad. Maybe theres a bit of overlap, but they definitely have it out for western culture in general. We're content with sinning in the traditional sense of all abrahamic religions. Im sure they dont like that. Christians dont even like that our own people are like that. Islam just picks up arms over it is all. Theyre profiling all of us based on the laws we pass. Assuming what kind of people we are and what we are about based on the fact that consequence that we have to treat those sinners fair and equally. I guess that makes us enablers of some kind.
They dont have to be there ... Maybe theyre like us? Maybe they see injustice and debauchery going on over here and mean to rid the world of it.
Now youre making me sound like a sympathizer ... Stop that.
Which one of the"no" voters wants to debate me on this in the future?
He have to do it, I know would not kill you just for disagreeing. That would make me what I hate so much. No I would be doing this for the greater good. We have to end this cycle of evil.
@TBR I can not turn a bilde eye, it is time we stop these senseless evil acts. Killing civilians is wrong, rapeing is wrong, corruption is wrong. I will not turn a bilde eye to these acts, it is time we stop them with force. They rape little kids, kids, we should not let them do that. Yes people will die but it is all for the greater good of humankind. You can think me as a monster if you want, but I want terrorism, rape, and the mass killing of civilians to end.
@stargate You do realize that the US supports several dictators who commit the very crimes you condemn. We'd have to go to war with a good portion of the world (and many "allies") to fix the problem. If we even can fix it.
TRB what do you not get? They are abuseing there power, they kill civilians, rape civilians, corruption. We should not stand by and watch this without action. It is for the greater good. I am not saying lets kill anyone who we disagree with. No I am saying lets bring law and order back to lands that have none. I want a peace world, and world without war, torture, rape, murder, war. But I know we can not have that world without removing the evil that plagues this world. It is time to stand up for what is right.
@58539672 I know, but it is needed. One war to end it all.
@stargate I have tremendous pride in our Military, but even we can't wage that many wars. Nearly all of Africa, a good part of the middle east, central Asia, southeast Asia, Central and South America, and a few eastern European nations would have to go. Even our economy can't afford such a feat.
Taj, all data indicates that terrorist attacks are blowback, so yes having a non interventionist foreign policy would end terrorism attacks in the United States, with the exception of domestic born terrorism
Varrack, I'd be happy to
@58539672 I know that is why we need a strong allance that will help us fight this war. It is a war for justice, and that would be a gobal war. I would say lets start with eastern europe, and east asia. Then central america, and south amercia, and then aficia and the middle east. We have a strong military, we have the best trained troops in this world, all we need is a strong allance to wage this gobal war. A war that is for once not all about us. No it would be about the future of the whole human race.
I know people will die, I know the war will last for decades if not centurys. But it is high time to create a truly prefect world. There is two main promblems though. Russia and China would attack us.
@ Wylted Terrorism is not me only reason why we should go to war.
@stargate The main problem with your plan is the cost and manpower requirements. Even with the full support of NATO (which contains 7 million total personal, 70% of all military budgets, and has members who make up 60% of the total worlds wealth), waging that many wars consecutively is simply economically unachievable. Iraq alone cost the US between 2 and 3 trillion dollars over the course of the 11 year conflict, and thats remarkably cheap as wars go. Funding such wars across what amounts to about 1/3 of the countries in the world and then reconstructing them into free, democratic nations is simply impossible.
@Wytled, Can you present us the data?
Yes and no, we would need the help of the people there in those nations that we would invade. I am not lying it would most likely take centurys for this to happen. Millions will die, but it is for the better world. Most nations would fall if we did this, plus we support most of these nations that would need to be attacked, or they would need help to stop these promblems. We have the best navy and air force in the world. If we do this roght we would win. It would but I think it is worth it.
It would be costly but hopefully we could do it. The problem is there would alot of nations against us. Most likely a lot of them would back down and fix it to try to stay in power. But still a lot of money and man power would be spent.
@FreedomBeforeEquality. Ya your right. Democracy, Freedom, Equality are all evils in the eyes of muslims.
"Taj, all data indicates that terrorist attacks are blowback"
Someone made the observation that Neutral countries like Switzerland are being hit with terrorism too. Still blowback?
You do understand the aim of terrorism is to get you to say things like "This is all blowback and it'll go away if we stop provoking it."? You get that right? You are their weapon. You are the whole reason they use that battle tactic.
Because of course they cannot win in a straight up fight ... So to impress that thought on you, in a democracy setting, is probably the most clever way to defeat an enemy from the inside. I don't blame you though. Its to be expected. They wouldnt use it if it wasnt an effective means of attack.
@stargate - This perfect world is the world you are modeling in your own image. Others have different opinions on what a perfect world is. Killing off a large number of people based on your own vision is what Hitler and Stalin did. This is not sane thinking.
I take that back, I'm sure not all muslims believe that. Some are sane people.
@TBR I am not saying lets go in the streets and kill everyone. The people that I am talking about are criminals, and suck this worlds life away. They kill, they rape, they are corrupt. Now dose that all effect no. But I believe we should stop this. Make the nations better themselves or face our amy. I do not care what religion they fellow, I do npt care what political party they are in, or what type of government they have. Am I evil, am I wrong? I am not those people, I am not killing people who disagree with me(well those who do not do those crimes) I believe that we should do this, and after we do it I would be ready to face any charges brought against me. Just let me tell you those people are criminals, who take advantage of that weakness not to end them.
I do not support the mass killing of civilians, I would only attack corrupt governments, terrorist cells, and help governments get rid of raping, I would attack pirates, am I evil? Or am I the person who is willing to do what has to be done. I would be saveing millions of people, I would end the evils that go on in this world. I am not saying it would be easy to do this, but it is something that needs to be done. Hate me if you want call me names. But tell me why we shouldn't stop them? We have the power, the means, we just lack the person to do it.
@Stargate - I am not trying to beat this into the ground, but I just don't think you are getting what I am saying. When you say "The people that I am talking about are criminals, and suck this worlds life away." well there are many people around the world that think this would match the US government, right? So it is our narrow interpretation of what is "right" that you want, and the cleansing of bad is what we from our perspectives feel is bad.
Stargate, civilians are bound to die in war no matter what. Name one major war, where 0 civilians died? We have to put them first over some evil. If the destruction we were to cause will be even worse than the current dictator, its best not to engage, and resort to diplomacy.
Maybe, I know civilians will die. But I think that less would die if we did this. Maybe you are right, who knows. But I know this will not stop unless we use force. Things keep on getting worse, and the world is falling apart.
I am not saying I am right, I am saying this would be the lesser and more human way of doing it.
The world is less violent than it has ever been.
Yes and no, yes there are less wars. But rape, corruption, murder, piracy( ships rading other ships), Mass killings of civilians. Also there is a new clod war happening. If that tigger ever fires the results could be terrible.
I think the No people miss the point here. Nobody expected the war in Afghanistan to drag on. If you really look at it, the U.S did win the war. One of the goals was to kick the Taliban out of power, which it did. If you were in 2001, right now I bet you would have voted Yes for sure.
When do you think these things weren't happening? General there is less in all areas.
"Nobody expected the war in Afghanistan to drag on." YES YES there were people who said just this! I am worn out by the "everyone thought Sadam had xxx". No we didn't. There were lots of people warning of prolonged war.
Normally that would be the problem with not having consensus before going to war. I think at that time though we were about as close to consensus as a democratic nation this large could possibly get.
@TBR https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_opinion_in_the_United_States_on_the_invasion_of_Iraq Support for it was nearly 80% in the from 2002-2003.
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Yes when the biggest attack on American soil happens, we need to defend ourselves. Thousands died in a grousem attack.
I support the war in Afghanistan.
Well, at first it was justified to fight back against the offending group(s) and any government defending or protecting them, but after we realized what kind of enemy we were fighting, and that we were and are never going to win, we should've left. The continued conflict is either an ego trip, not wanting to admit that the greatest military in the world can be outmatched by guerrilla forces (even though that's how our nation was conceived), or just a delusional parade in which people actually think that we can stop this through use of brute force.
Simple the middle bombs us, we bomb them. REVENGE! I'm an left - green - capitalist - socialist atheist and I agree with this quote; "An eye for an eye".
You mean the war in Afghanistan? Yes, we were justified.
Absolutely.
In Afghanistan, not Iraq. We should've gotten Bin Laden and left much earlier.
no we should have left the middle east alone
Well, we had justification to go into Afghanistan, not Iraq. Regardless, war was not necessary, and has been a bad decision.
It's stupid to respond to blow back, by creating more blowback.
If America is a christian nation, and you want to teach your attackers a powerful lesson, you should forgive them, like your god says to.
America should have went to war with islamic extremists, not just Afghanistan or Iraq in the least. Saudi Arabians, Lebanese, and Egyptians financed by a Saudi Arabian guy living in Afghanistan and sheltered by Pakistanis.
They had no chance,fred