What are your first thoughts upon seeing this flag?

Posted by: triangle.128k

Vote whatever comes in your mind first, don't overthink it.

Vote
52 Total Votes
1

Racism

17 votes
2 comments
2

The Confederate States of America

15 votes
2 comments
3

Southern pride

6 votes
1 comment
4

Ignorance and bigotry.

3 votes
0 comments
5

Independence

Similarly to a number of voters in Scotland wanting independence in their latest referendum (however not getting it, even though they were promised some devolved powers from Cameron, but weren't given them), the Confederacy was created so that they ... were free from the economic injustices that were caused by the North at the time. They wanted national autonomy and economic freedom. The United States wanted independence from British rule, and similarly, Scotland wanted freedom from Westminster rule   more
2 votes
1 comment
6

Dukes of Hazards General Lee - Dodge Charger

2 votes
0 comments
7

Human Pettiness

1 vote
0 comments
8

Slavery

1 vote
0 comments
9

Anti-americanism

1 vote
0 comments
10

Lynyrd Skynyrd

A southern American rock band.
1 vote
0 comments
11

The song 'All Summer Long'

1 vote
1 comment
12

Kool aid and fried chicken

1 vote
0 comments
13

The good old days

1 vote
0 comments
14

REBEL!!

Rebel [n., adj. Reb-uh l; v. Ri-bel] noun 1. A person who refuses allegiance to, resists, or rises in arms against the government or ruler of his or her country. 2. A person who resists any authority, control, or tradition. Adjective 3. Rebellious;...  defiant. 4. Of or relating to rebels. Verb (used without object), rebel, rebelled, rebelling. 5. To reject, resist, or rise in arms against one's government or ruler. 6. To resist or rise against some authority, control, or tradition. 7. To show or feel utter repugnance: His very soul rebelled at spanking the child   more
0 votes
0 comments
15

KKK

0 votes
0 comments
16

Jim Crow Laws

0 votes
0 comments
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(Maximum 900 words)
briantheliberal says2015-05-23T08:40:28.6758666-05:00
I usually assume whoever is sporting it is probably bigoted, untrustworthy, backwards, most likely uneducated, and definitely from the South. So far none have proven me wrong.
blackkid says2015-05-23T09:23:47.8217542-05:00
Sporting the Confederate Flag is equivalent to Real-Life Trolling.
Kreakin says2015-05-23T09:25:23.5201634-05:00
In the UK the last time I saw that flag was on Dukes of hazard about 25 years ago.
triangle.128k says2015-05-23T09:26:45.9434525-05:00
@58539672 Well that's anti-american with what the confederacy did. Also, a government similar was tried in early US when they ran under the Articles of Confederation. The articles failed drastically and had the states basically act as their own country. They need to move on from the confederation-style of government.
triangle.128k says2015-05-23T09:27:25.8095413-05:00
The federalism imposed by the Constitution was much more efficient and created a more united union as opposed to the articles.
58539672 says2015-05-23T09:44:54.2611290-05:00
@triangle.128k Although you are are right abut the confederacy, that was more than a century ago. Very few who use the confederate flag consider themselves as Confederates who want to break away from the US. If anything many have an unwavering allegiance to the constitution and much of the conservative aspects of our government. Its the same thing as the Christian Cross which was a form of execution and is now considered a holy symbol. The original purpose of the flag (rebellion) is different from the current purpose (for which their really isn't any when you get down to it). As I said in my post, its more (in my personal experience with them) a case of people willing to stand up and fight for what they believed and an inability to let go of the past. Mostly the latter though.
triangle.128k says2015-05-23T09:49:18.0705458-05:00
The Christian Cross was a symbol that represented Christianity even before it was used to execute people. Would you raise a Nazi flag trying to change the meaning of it?
triangle.128k says2015-05-23T09:50:33.3736766-05:00
If ISIS falls one day, would it be valid to raise an ISIS flag and try to change it's meaning to "Islam pride?"
Vox_Veritas says2015-05-23T09:57:30.2787662-05:00
It can be used in a variety of contexts; even if the originally used context is bad doesn't mean that it can't be used for neutral or good purposes 150 years later. Besides being a sign of the CSA, it is used in Southern culture as a "Southern Pride" thing. Seeing as how there aren't an abundance of symbols to be used for Southern Pride, it's commonly used with that meaning. In fact, the commonly used "Confederate Flag" today wasn't actually used by the Confederate States during the American Civil War, though a very similar design was. Thus, one could say that the most commonly used Confederate Flag is actually a later invention. If original meaning was all that mattered, then the Dems would have no right to criticize the GOP, seeing as how it was founded as an abolitionist party. Obviously that's bull seeing as how the GOP isn't a slavery abolitionist party today.
Vox_Veritas says2015-05-23T09:59:28.0625469-05:00
That having been said, because the most common interpretation of this flag is a Pro-Confederate meaning and because of the racial tension caused by it, it's probably best that people just don't fly it.
58539672 says2015-05-23T10:37:01.4147630-05:00
@triangle.128k Crucifixion was a form of execution used by the Roman empire that involved tying someone to a cross. It did not become a religious symbol until Jesus was crucified, despite it being used for centuries by that point.
Reeseroni says2015-05-23T11:04:52.4360086-05:00
@briantheliberal What if its just someone who thinks the flag looks pretty
Sniper1576 says2015-05-23T11:05:54.4007974-05:00
Immediately, I think back to the Confederate States of America, then again, I'm also almost a "History Nerd".
TheMarquis says2015-05-23T11:08:54.2578090-05:00
@Reeseroni: Then they might be aesthetically challenged.
TBR says2015-05-23T11:42:18.9422518-05:00
I did overthink it - sorry. It's not simply racism, KKK, slavery, it is all that and more. Not just a single simple statement.
briantheliberal says2015-05-23T20:39:12.2449356-05:00
Reeseroni, you can think the Nazi flag "looks pretty" too but I will still assume the worst.
Stefy says2015-05-23T20:51:20.1439992-05:00
Its the battle flag for an army dedicated to maintaing the institution of alavery that was used in a widespread way for the kkk and others to terrorize black people, gay people, catholics and countless others. I cant hold up a 45 degree swastika and say its ok its just german pride.
triangle.128k says2015-05-26T14:46:54.9913580-05:00
@FreedomBeforeEquality Yeah, a pro-slavery white supremacist was sure trying to protect us from "government oppression."
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-05-26T14:47:49.0985457-05:00
The federalism imposed by the Constitution was much more efficient and created a more united union as opposed to the articles. A much more united union is whats brought about all of this federal government socialist garbage we have running rampant now. Dividing the governing responsibility to smaller states would have kept that type of stuff to a minimum. It takes alot of bureaucracy and wasted money to fund programs like that, the type of stuff only a large corrupt central government can support.
triangle.128k says2015-05-26T14:50:34.8800801-05:00
There are still state rights under federalism, the states have plenty of rights. If the US had a confederate government, we wouldn't be a superpower like we are, we would be more fragmented like Europe. Also, the articles of confederation didn't work as well as Federalism in early USA.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-05-26T14:52:01.3842981-05:00
Just saying ... The unions forced annexation of the south was alot like Russia's annexation of Crimea. It wasn't about slavery. Plenty of other places still practiced it too, the unions heart wasn't bleeding for them. Not to mention that the most racist cities in America all seem to lie north of the Virginia line still to this day.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-05-26T14:54:50.9138449-05:00
"we would be more fragmented like Europe" Funny that we use them as models then. Small places like Switzerland have gotten along just fine. Every country doesnt need to be a military giant to hold its claim.
triangle.128k says2015-05-26T14:57:01.6607973-05:00
It was because the North wanted to keep the USA as one piece, they would loose power if they divide up. The confederacy was attempting again at a failed government style which we tried before.
triangle.128k says2015-05-26T14:57:39.9095158-05:00
Sure, it wasn't about slavery purely but the south was a lot more racist in general. Jim Crow laws and the KKK was much more common in the south.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-05-26T15:00:40.7528149-05:00
"It was because the North wanted to keep the USA as one piece" Way to keep it one piece, killing hundreds of thousands of your fellow statesmen. That really builds bonds ...
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-05-26T15:04:15.9915337-05:00
Jim crow laws aside ... That was just the flavor of the week. If any state decided to sede from the union today, we already set a precedent for those would be freedom lovers. Maybe this next time it'll be over not wanting to provide gov't funded healthcare or something. Maybe the federal government will take that as a threat. Maybe they'll start by cutting other funding to your state to try and coerce you into staying? They do that you know ...
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-05-26T15:08:09.8416724-05:00
Probably even set up embargoes against you with other nations. Not at all like the Union we were initially born from (England). They'll let territories vote out now. In many ways the federal government has turned into that tyrant and Britain has actually learned from their defeat and become better for it. We learned nothing and our civil war is proof of that. Still trying to wrest control of its southern colony ...
58539672 says2015-05-26T22:30:15.6639447-05:00
@FreedomBeforeEquality I think you may be acting a bit overzealous toward confederacies. The Articles of Confederation were very ineffective and the Confederate States of America weren't much better. Confederacies general only work when all members of said confederation have a common cause to go for (like a foreign aggressor). Once that common cause is removed however, the members stop working together and start fighting one another based on their ideological differences. They usually end with civil war, anarchy, or the formation of a central government to replace them.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-05-27T11:15:05.5385134-05:00
I think the common cause thing is irrelevant. You need the same from a strong central government to keep its people together too. People just didn't agree, and they still don't. Under a confederation at least you had an opportunity to have a say over what happens more locally and if you didn't agree you could more easily relocate to a state with only slightly different ideologies. Now to get away from something you find oppressive you'd have to go to a foreign nation entirely. Much less political policy diversity under all these superpowers and very little say by the public.
58539672 says2015-05-27T11:40:44.1535764-05:00
That still doesn't mean that confederations work. There are currently 0 countries that are in confederations, and that alone speaks volumes for the system. It is simply too weak of a system to keep the members together and has historically never worked. If you want more power to state sized governments you can achieve that under federalism, but don't pick a political system that is doomed to fail from the start.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-05-28T07:27:42.8673610-05:00
Whats the difference between a confederation and the european union? Or any other alliance of sovereign nations?
58539672 says2015-05-28T23:59:00.4544565-05:00
The EU is an association of compound states (which is in the gray area between Confederations and Federation). This makes the EU strong enough to stay together (for now) but still incapable of getting things done. If you've noticed, the EU is a mess of a governing body that has several members considering withdrawing (and some wanting to kick others out). They can barely agree to any law and have only really accomplished opening their boarders with each other and making a unified currency. And that same currency has almost collapsed of few times in its short history. The EU is on its way to falling apart until they either reform it with more federalist or unitary policies, or replace it entirely.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-05-29T14:42:15.8532041-05:00
Yes, the EU (the central government portion) is falling apart. The countries themselves are doing just fine when given their own governing body and ability to make their own rules. The weak ones with bad governments are faltering. Part of the reason the EU is crumbling is that they have to accommodate those lesser countries. Same goes for the US. If what our citizens in Florida wanted didn't have to accommodate the wants of some backwards state like New Hampshire, we'd be able to flourish and those in a common wealth would have to try and get their boat to float on it's own. When their broken way of thinking is weighing in on our combined central government it ends up hurting all of us. They are being protected from their faults and it's hurting all of us as a result. All because a central government can't dissolve away after it's outlived its use (which at the time was war). Forming one was like making a contract with the devil.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-05-29T14:47:42.1979717-05:00
It was like giving birth to an AI. Gave it too many permissions. Now it's uncontrollably making its own new permissions, won't let you take any of it's permissions away, it won't let you end it, it won't let you end yourself, it thinks its protecting you from yourself, so it's gonna control and control and control.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-05-29T14:49:49.6844405-05:00
And apparently the only way to rid yourself of it is to actually kill a part of yourself by attacking all the states that rely on it to stay afloat. Like removing a cancer from the body so your overall health can return to normal.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-05-29T14:50:50.1671913-05:00
Difference now is that the northeast isn't the majority in power or population anymore.
debate_power says2015-05-29T17:16:49.0464909-05:00
Shame Davis couldn't protect us from slavery, either. I wonder what the Southern blacks had to say about government oppression? Or does "us" just mean white folks?
58539672 says2015-05-30T00:21:41.3746741-05:00
@FreedomBeforeEquality Sounds like you want the states to be their own separate countries. That route is arguable still better than a Confederacy and many states would fair well, but none would be as powerful, as wealthy, and as stable as the USA.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-06-01T10:25:05.5274012-05:00
@ Debate_Power He didnt get to stay in office long enough to fix the issue ... So I don't suppose we can blame him for that. He was there solely for the purpose i mentioned above. Again no slavery. @58539672 Wealthy, yes they would. Seeing as how the country is in debt, but some of the states alone are able to turn a profit on their end year to year, I'd say they could stand to be much much wealthier than the whole. Powerful, yes again. Single states here loaning their militaries toward a common goal would be just as effective were we to do it in the same way we did in the past (create a temporary wartime central government for a specific purpose, dissolve it later). That won't happen again though ... Learned our lesson there. Stability is arguable. I Think we'd be pretty stable if we were able to shift our focus to more local concerns instead of having all this power and worrying about how best to press it on other nations all the time.
58539672 says2015-06-01T18:14:45.3298968-05:00
@FreedomBeforeEquality The state with the highest GDP (or GSP as it is called) is California at $2.28 trillion. The US GDP is $17 trillion. No single state (if they become their own country) can be as rich as the US. Period. In fact, one interesting fact is that if you add up the GSP of all 50 states, you get $16.5 trillion. That 500 billion or so is the additional income that the US government has from our territories and districts (DC mostly). So one could say that the US is richer than all the states combined. As for power, even the combined forces of the Air and Army National Guards (their is no Navy equivalent by the way) from all states, they only have 461,796 personal, inferior armament, fewer vehicles, short or nonexistent logistic chains, and much less funding. And those units are co-owned by the federal government. Of the States that have their own military forces, for which their are only 22, they are even smaller and less funded/equipped than the Guard. The states can't hold a candle to the US Military.
debate_power says2015-06-01T19:20:45.8580502-05:00
@Freedom http://www.U-s-history.Com/pages/h144.Html Our friend Mr. Jefferson Davis not only supported slavery, but also owned slaves himself. What was that about government oppression again? Or is your take on what Davis stood for exclusively right?
debate_power says2015-06-01T19:21:26.0642814-05:00
Oh whatever... Slaves can be made private property. That must make slavery moral according to the private-property bible.
debate_power says2015-06-01T19:24:25.6954869-05:00
By the way, Freedom, do you live in the USA? If so, do you like living here?
triangle.128k says2015-06-01T19:59:09.4479722-05:00
@debate_power I wonder if commies like living in such an anti-communist free market Capitalist country.
debate_power says2015-06-01T20:01:05.4001881-05:00
Free-market, my butt. Capitalist, my butt. And why don't you ask the communists what they feel?
triangle.128k says2015-06-01T20:01:35.8601276-05:00
Okay, what do you feel about living in USA?
debate_power says2015-06-01T20:02:25.4587997-05:00
Oh, I'm a communist all of a sudden?
triangle.128k says2015-06-01T20:06:07.4999976-05:00
You aren't? What's the difference between marxist socialism and communism?
debate_power says2015-06-01T20:07:06.0011226-05:00
Why don't you look it up? And who said I was a Marxist?
triangle.128k says2015-06-01T20:08:15.9372675-05:00
Wait, you said you were a marxist before? I think you must have changed your profile.
debate_power says2015-06-01T20:09:22.8625545-05:00
Ah, sorry. Yes, I changed my profile.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-06-02T14:56:24.0738147-05:00
@58539672 How about including the debt with that GDP that they rack up? There are single states that would run in the green. As a whole they run in the red. How do you explain that?
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-06-02T15:01:41.1641873-05:00
@Debate power Nearly all the presidents of the time had slaves. Jefferson Davis wasn't some renegade because he had them. Washington, jefferson, madison, grant even ... Grant had slaves and his presidency was after lincolns. He fought for the north!
58539672 says2015-06-02T15:45:12.7493343-05:00
@FreedomBeforeEquality National debt is different than personal debt. If you have more debt as an individual than your income, then you are considered to be economically poor. This thinking however does not apply to nations and states in the same way. A nation can be in large amounts of debt and not only function, but even continue to grow in GDP. This can be seen in most developed nations (and some underdeveloped ones) were they have large sums of debt and are still considered wealthy. In other words, Debt does not signify the wealth of a nation. GDP does. On a side note, one of the reasons that the States don't have as much debt as the US is because they don't fund all the programs and services that are expected of countries. Military spending is one such example. The second the states become their own countries, their annual bill to keep everything going will go up considerably. Especially when you add in the high standard (and cost) of living in the US.
FreedomBeforeEquality says2015-06-05T14:54:27.3308722-05:00
There are no other expected services from the federal government than military synchronization. As far as other programs, think of where the money is coming from for that. Its just being recirculated right back to the states and consequently they end up having to dance a jig in the capitol just to get their money back to spend as they see fit. The post populated/largest states with the highest bills are also the highest tax contributors. The Fed doesnt regulate anything a state couldn't do on its own. It should only be there for settling disputes about joint ventures and extraditing criminals etc. We don't need them for healthcare, nature preservation, schools, or any of that. GDP is all well and good but is a farce as far as wealth is concerned. Its not as solid a capital and resources. It's just a credit score. Your means to make that cash can crash easily. Relying on GDP alone is what makes for awesome market crashes, depressions, or rapid inflation. We are the ones being damaged by this practice. Not having a stable economy is a major inhibitor of our vertical mobility.
me1213 says2015-11-05T19:40:06.9558069Z
EVIL
dloslund says2015-11-06T02:59:29.0342662Z
Actually, another thing that pops into my head is the essay I'm doing on the topic rn

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