What is the greatest threat to world peace?

Posted by: stargate

Poll closed on 8/30/2015 at 6:30AM.
Vote
34 Total Votes
1
VOTING CLOSED

None of the above

21 votes
11 comments
2
VOTING CLOSED

USA

8 votes
4 comments
3
VOTING CLOSED

Terrorism

4 votes
1 comment
4
VOTING CLOSED

Russia

1 vote
1 comment
5
VOTING CLOSED

China

0 votes
0 comments
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(Maximum 900 words)
TBR says2015-08-25T23:07:27.2120954Z
I would vote terrorism, but it is predominantly a reaction to western interference, sooo....
Haroush says2015-08-25T23:15:45.2007578Z
I would say the greatest threat to world peace is not those who are evil, but those who don't do anything about it.
Midnight1131 says2015-08-25T23:16:15.6833532Z
But aliens... Come on guys...
TBR says2015-08-25T23:19:53.8351516Z
@stargate - How many civilians have died in the Ukraine? How many have died in Iraq? How many military actions is Russia involved in? How many are we?
Haroush says2015-08-25T23:26:36.9729358Z
No, no, no... ISIS is about culture, not a reactionary group to western interference. This is why it's not America they hate, but our culture.
dietorangesoda says2015-08-25T23:26:55.3388466Z
Religion
Midnight1131 says2015-08-25T23:27:32.3376907Z
Not even Western culture. Anything even remotely different from their own.
Haroush says2015-08-25T23:29:25.2200143Z
Oh, yeah! Us radical Islamist, Orthodox Jews, and Christians are all coming to kill you! @ DOS
Haroush says2015-08-25T23:30:57.8690082Z
True @ Midnight
Haroush says2015-08-25T23:32:11.3610793Z
Though I do believe we are at the top of the hit list when it comes to ISIS.
TBR says2015-08-25T23:36:19.9018725Z
Tell that to the Shias who are dieing Haroush
The_American_Sniper says2015-08-25T23:39:13.2501837Z
They all want to kill us Jews!
stargate says2015-08-25T23:58:25.3643690Z
True, but honestly the biggest threat to world peace is either Russia, or us the USA. True, but we stated our right we are coming. We did it more official, and we do not go around saying if you mess with us we nuke you. For us iit is more if you nuke you we nuke you.
stargate says2015-08-25T23:58:46.7989064Z
Plus it is not just ukraine, there was also georgia.
Emilrose says2015-08-26T00:55:40.0049730Z
It's so weird, some of the Iraqi Christians really look like Jews O.O
Emilrose says2015-08-26T00:56:22.5472638Z
@stargate, you really do have a full obsession with war, don't you?
stargate says2015-08-26T00:57:25.5572794Z
Not really, it is just I like talking about foreign policy.
reece says2015-08-26T01:01:39.4490899Z
@stargate If you really wanna talk about "foreign policy", talk about the Strategic Defense Initiative (aka star wars program)
dietorangesoda says2015-08-26T01:02:20.0717503Z
It's not about killing me @haroush although plenty of religious people are doing that it's that midevil backwards ideology that ALL religions have but islam gets the most crap for the truth is the bible quran ect ect are all written 2000 years ago and are no longer applicable to people's lives this is the 21st century and it's appalling to me to see people actually believing in things like noah's ark and creationism time to grow up embrace science and stop following a book written thousands of years ago
triangle.128k says2015-08-26T01:24:05.5187030Z
The grorious Peopre's Repubric of China is the reast threatening to worrd peace out of arr the options.
tajshar2k says2015-08-26T01:25:11.2425398Z
Dietorangesoda, Islam gets a load of crap, because too many of its followers are radical extremists who threaten humanity.
stargate says2015-08-26T01:25:43.2695451Z
Should I, most people probably do not even know what it is. If you want me to sure.
tajshar2k says2015-08-26T01:28:29.7538123Z
People who said the U.S.A please explain...
Emilrose says2015-08-26T01:29:55.0924662Z
Ahem, the Qur'an certainly was written '2000 years ago'. There's about a 700 year difference between it and the Bible.
Emilrose says2015-08-26T01:33:26.0254746Z
And whether either book is 'applicable' to people's lives in the 21st century is entirely subjective.
tajshar2k says2015-08-26T01:34:26.1692970Z
Emilrose, thats true, but the issue is they immigrate to other countries, and try to force it on others.
reece says2015-08-26T01:36:11.5323724Z
@tajshar2k I did.
tajshar2k says2015-08-26T01:36:56.6166614Z
Oh, I didn't see your reasoning.
Emilrose says2015-08-26T01:40:35.6604906Z
Some of them do, but many of them don't. As with most religious and politics issues--it's not that simple. But I agree that those who do should obviously not be allowed to or given that kind of platform. In places like the U.K they have plenty of it though.
Varrack says2015-08-26T01:40:40.8056985Z
Terrorism and authoritarianism are the biggest threats by far. Everything else doesn't really matter.
reece says2015-08-26T01:43:09.3030504Z
@tajshar2k It's not necessary.
tajshar2k says2015-08-26T01:44:03.5133979Z
Reece, What is not necessary?
dietorangesoda says2015-08-26T01:47:23.3506789Z
Yes i agree islam has a fanatical problem but the only reason christianity doesn't is christians don't follow most of the bible's teachings whereas muslims follow all of there quran or in some cases just the violent verses which btw there are plenty of in the bible and @emilrose ok but we can all agree they were written many many years ago when times were very different the bible claims women who are raped should marry there rapist look it up if you don't believe me do you support that? It also claims that if a man marries a woman and she is found to not be on a virgin on there wedding day that he should take her back to her father's house and stone her this is what i am talking about that backwards midevil crap that is spewed all through the bible i know because i've read it old testament and new i've even underlined passages where it says these things so no the bible is not applicable to peoples lives
Emilrose says2015-08-26T02:04:09.9771542Z
The Bible is book (actually made up of 'books') with *a lot* of layers and is best not taken entirely literally, at least in many parts. Additionally, the 'Christian bible' has two very different sections within it. Some Christians would argue that stoning was no longer applicable and/or acceptable according to their NT.
Midnight1131 says2015-08-26T02:06:18.4295550Z
Guys, seriously. An alien invasion would be so massively destructive it'd make all these other options look like a tea party.
Midnight1131 says2015-08-26T02:07:09.6914836Z
Talk about priorities in the wrong place... Sheesh...
dietorangesoda says2015-08-26T02:31:17.9568962Z
Why would you want to follow a book that advocates for stoning non virgins and women having to marry there rapist it's ridiculous weather you follow these teachings or not is irrelevant your praising a book that would literally stone you for wearing the dress that your wearing in ur profile picture
Emilrose says2015-08-26T02:33:02.9943894Z
Did I say I was actually following anything? Or proclaim to be an advocate of the Bible? I'm simply highlighting some very large flaws in your statements.
Emilrose says2015-08-26T02:33:45.0218670Z
And whether I'd be stoned or not is maybe debatable ;)
Midnight1131 says2015-08-26T02:33:48.5925329Z
The aliens wouldn't stone you...
tajshar2k says2015-08-26T02:41:42.0664986Z
Ya, cause you apparently were talking to them earlier..
dietorangesoda says2015-08-26T02:42:13.1424954Z
Hmm not really showing off as much skin as that dress does is clearly againist the bible which says you must dress modestly and cover yourself people would call you a whore and a harlot and kill you no doubt about that
Midnight1131 says2015-08-26T02:47:48.8295190Z
I'm the messenger. I'm the prophet of the aliens.
Varrack says2015-08-26T02:49:43.7476150Z
What about Martians though?
Midnight1131 says2015-08-26T02:50:34.0033778Z
Those filthy traitors, they were in league with the aliens long before we knew.
tajshar2k says2015-08-26T02:50:54.3303081Z
So, in that case, we should capture you, and use you to destroy them.
Emilrose says2015-08-26T02:51:02.4922650Z
Naw, they sure wouldn't stone me!
Emilrose says2015-08-26T02:52:39.0441210Z
Again, you're using terms such as the 'bible' without acknowledging that it's divided into two separate parts. Yes, I may be breaking one of the 613 commandments in the Hebrew Bible but there's much worse things people can do than wearing a dress.
Emilrose says2015-08-26T02:53:23.7492520Z
And you should know that I was not arguing from personal opinion.
Varrack says2015-08-26T02:54:10.2519640Z
@Midnight - if you're the prophet of the aliens, then the Martians wouldn't be traitors because they'd already have been in league with them as you said, meaning you'd be friends with them too.
Midnight1131 says2015-08-26T02:55:43.5093618Z
I'm a fairly new prophet. It's like a split role between messenger and prophet. The aliens are pretty advanced, so they didn't want any bias in my message sending.
Midnight1131 says2015-08-26T02:56:27.7356453Z
@Tajshar2k, don't shoot the messenger you barbarian.
tajshar2k says2015-08-26T02:56:32.0587266Z
And thats why we need the Death Penalty. Simply putting you in prison won't do anything. You can still talk to them.
tajshar2k says2015-08-26T02:57:05.3756274Z
@Midnight1131 NO!!! THIS IS AMERICA!!!
Midnight1131 says2015-08-26T02:57:36.0484832Z
No, I'm just warning you of your impending doom, I don't have any importance in bringing that doom about.
tajshar2k says2015-08-26T02:57:49.0026740Z
It was a reference to King Leonidas btw.
dietorangesoda says2015-08-26T02:59:13.2059060Z
Ok and what exact parts of the 2 books as you claim wouldn't stone you for showing that much skin in public?
Varrack says2015-08-26T03:01:32.3671528Z
Martians = China + Russia + North Korea all on steroids.
Midnight1131 says2015-08-26T03:03:36.1767917Z
The Martians may have the manpower of China, the stupidly stubborn resolve of Russia, that's pretty intimidating. But add his majesty the supreme glorious leader to the mix, and Earth as a fighting chance.
Emilrose says2015-08-26T03:09:07.3242854Z
Pretty sure you can guess.
dietorangesoda says2015-08-26T03:22:55.7010245Z
Hmm sounds like your argument isn't holding up if you can't even tell me but that's OK because lucky for me and you we don't follow the bible word for word so nobody will stone you for that dress
ramm55 says2015-08-26T13:22:16.9041263Z
Haroush is wrong a s usual, some things never change.;0
TBR says2015-08-26T14:35:52.2908588Z
@dietorangesoda - Christians that talk about "the new convenient" are enormous hypocrites to me, but that is what they are talking about. Basically, there is no stoning in the New Testament. Christians take "some" of the laws from the OT, but ignore almost all Leviticus, Deuteronomy and Numbers. As distasteful as I find the hypocrisy, and Christians generally, I am happy that they take this New Convenient - the other option is literaly stoning in the public square, and they would do it!
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-26T14:40:35.0582714Z
@TBR -- Christians and Judeo-Christian culture are some of the most forgiving, easy-going, kind, giving, and understanding religions on the PLANET. How can you find them distasteful?
biggest_pro_going says2015-08-26T15:07:03.0484086Z
The good thing about this poll is America is winning because all the American patriots have put meaning/completely stupid full answers instead. "Religion"
TBR says2015-08-26T15:12:11.9680310Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont - Well, not really. Want to compare them to Hindu... Janis. I don't like much of any religion, but I sure wouldn't try to put Christianity above Buddhists on the peaceful scale.
TBR says2015-08-26T15:16:18.0128082Z
And as long as the subject is at-hand. Christians are personally unpleasant. They, since I live in a predominantly Christian nation, cause me way more problems than any other religion.
Emilrose says2015-08-26T17:16:22.9681758Z
@TBR, I actually agree that some Christians are hypocrites because of how the *pick and choose* aspects of the OT and ignore general things in it such as strong--once again, I was merely using this an argument that they would use to dietorangesoda--I'd advise her that it is helpful to analyze things from different perspectives and not always view things in black and white, which clearly, she absolutely does.
Emilrose says2015-08-26T17:18:37.5840274Z
@TBR, you should support that claim. Only individuals can cause 'problems'--religion is technically irrelevant.
reece says2015-08-26T17:22:49.4114707Z
@Emilrose Religion is completely relevant. It's an idea...
Emilrose says2015-08-26T17:23:55.6338952Z
As for your comments about Buddhism: http://edition.cnn.com/2014/06/19/world/asia/sri-lanka-muslim-aluthgama/.... *anyone* can be violent in *any* religion. It is simply biased to focus exclusively on one religious group [I.E Christians] and claim that they are the worst.
Emilrose says2015-08-26T17:27:10.6507453Z
Technically, 'ideas'. My point is that the only real factor in a person committing violence is individual character--which is hence why there's peaceful and non-peaceful people in every religion.
TBR says2015-08-26T17:31:15.3695140Z
@Emilrose - What claim? That Janis are less of a bother than Christians? Sure, any time. I don't have to prove that all Christians are worse, just that most are. No problem.
TBR says2015-08-26T17:34:10.8706390Z
http://www.loonwatch.com/2015/07/violent-christian-mob-attack-muslims-doing-eid-prayer-in-indonesias-papua/ See how easy this is @Emilrose? Seriously, just finding a story about a Buddhist mob does little to sway my lineup of religions by "peacefulness"
reece says2015-08-26T17:34:40.6356298Z
@Emilrose Ideas are a cause to an effect. The more a religion has an 'us vs them' imprint, the more harm it causes to societies progress of tolerance and reasoning.
TBR says2015-08-26T17:35:50.7112790Z
I am working hard to find some Janis violence, but its slim pickings Emilrose.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-26T17:38:38.4404178Z
@TBR -- You seem to have a lot of different deep seeded hatreds of the most random groups which you fail to look beyond when formulating opinions of different groups...And I emphasize OPINIONS. You seem to be an American that hates America for....Well no real reason. Do you even enjoy being called an American, or would you rather be a different nationality? Honest question there.
reece says2015-08-26T17:40:02.2784916Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont Do real Americans fly the confederate flag?
TBR says2015-08-26T17:40:58.1580498Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont - I am a very happy American. A patriot by the best of definitions.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-26T17:44:10.3824820Z
@TBR -- Then why such animosity toward the core foundations of America? You can't really be a true patriot (as it correlates with America) if you don't at least have respect and understanding for the core foundations, including Judeo-Christian culture.
TBR says2015-08-26T17:47:42.1850397Z
So it is your contention that to be a patriot I must be a Christian? Or at least, I should not say what I think of Christians?
reece says2015-08-26T17:48:47.9394612Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont Don't you dare talk about the core foundations America. By what you've just said, you don't know jack sh_t about what you're talking about.
reece says2015-08-26T17:50:56.2658838Z
:p Look at me, i'm not even American.
reece says2015-08-26T17:51:12.6147886Z
Of*
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-26T17:52:50.5966674Z
@TBR -- I didn't say you have to like it; I said you have to respect and understand it. What you're doing is like going to Iran and saying you love Iran and you're a patriot of and for Iran....But you hate Islam. Makes no sense.
Emilrose says2015-08-26T17:53:32.0484824Z
Again, I'm still not really seeing any substantive evidence that Christians are actually the biggest 'bother' in this world. The problem with your argument [especially in saying things such as 'most' Christians] is that it pretty much labels an entire group of people--that consist of *individual* personalities. Billions of Christians exist--perhaps it's worth looking at other countries bar your own--many of whom are peaceful and do not fit any of the criteria that you've outlined.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-26T17:53:44.2464430Z
@reece -- Dont start with me. Nobody wants to hear your nonsense today.
reece says2015-08-26T17:55:34.7276688Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont Do i have to say it? America was founded as a SECULAR country...
Emilrose says2015-08-26T17:59:33.8148014Z
Actually TBR, it really sounds like you should get out more. I've met many Christians who are good people--would you say that the Christians in counties such as Iraq/Syria are 'personally unpleasant'--when you haven't even met them? You are actually referring to one of the most persecuted groups in the world at the moment, and again, the vast majority of these people avoid conflict and do *not* impose themselves on others'.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-26T18:00:00.0132778Z
@reece -- Please....Why don't you enlighten me then.
TBR says2015-08-26T18:00:29.2107565Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont - I don't agree that "foundation" is the right word here. Regardless, I will buy it for sake of the argument, and STILL see no problem reconciling my love of my secular nation with general distaste for Christians. I know plenty about Judeo-Christian culture, and plenty about Judeo-Christian religions. Christianity does not give you the exclusive right to the term Patriot.
triangle.128k says2015-08-26T18:01:26.1199213Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont "the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." Stated by John Adams.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-26T18:02:29.7771178Z
@TBR -- I agree it does not corner the market on the word Patriot....Else I would not have used Iran as an example. But foundation is the correct word, and the foundations of America are Judeo-Christian.
reece says2015-08-26T18:04:18.3450253Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont the first amendment prohibits an established national religion. Good enough?
triangle.128k says2015-08-26T18:05:57.5432450Z
“The civil government … functions with complete success … by the total separation of the Church from the State.” ~ Writings, 1819 by James Madison
TBR says2015-08-26T18:05:59.4180732Z
@Emilrose - OK. Lets look at the "spreading the gospels". That is a bother to me. There are religions that have no such built-in requirement. Most Christians assume (rightfully from the Bible) that it a responsibility of Christians to evangelize.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-26T18:06:25.5014404Z
@Triangle -- Correct in a sense. It is not founded ON CHRISTIAN RELIGION. This was the founders intent; to create a free nation in which any one person or group could practice a religion of their choice as they chose. "Founded on" and "foundations built on" are two completely different terms with two completely different meanings.
TBR says2015-08-26T18:07:19.8365887Z
While the majority of Americans are accepting of evolution, of regular Church goers - 69% think God created humans in the present form. This is a bother to me and my society.
triangle.128k says2015-08-26T18:07:21.5213995Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont Care to explain about the "Judeo-Christian foundations" that are relevant to the USA's beginning?
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-26T18:08:53.6249598Z
@reece -- Go back to school....Reading comprehension. Nobody said ANYTHING about creating a single religion, I said, FOUNDATIONS BUILT ON or FOUNDATIONS BUILT AROUND. Never did I EVER say, America only allows the free practice of a single religion.
TBR says2015-08-26T18:09:18.3661485Z
While my society is generally accepting of homosexuality at this point, the largest group of people hostile to homosexuality is Christian. This is a bother for me, and my society.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-26T18:09:29.1158698Z
@reece -- Go back to school....Reading comprehension. Nobody said ANYTHING about creating a single religion, I said, FOUNDATIONS BUILT ON or FOUNDATIONS BUILT AROUND. Never did I EVER say, America only allows the free practice of a single religion.
TBR says2015-08-26T18:10:54.1039622Z
The most supportive group for the Iraq war (before and now) were Christian churchgoers. http://media.gallup.com/POLL/Releases/pr060316i.gif This is a bother and a huge issue for my society.
reece says2015-08-26T18:11:30.3429945Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont The key word is "prohibits" within the context.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-26T18:12:00.7943897Z
@TBR -- and so is every other mainstream religion. It's because it is what is written. However, as we have seen time and time again, the word of "God" is malleable with change in time and cultural acceptance. These things do not change overnight; specially because a law was passed by a government. Relax, give it time my friend.
TBR says2015-08-26T18:12:33.2581978Z
The groups most commonly found harassing abortion clinics are Christians, followed closely by Catholics. This is a huge bother to me.
TBR says2015-08-26T18:13:28.2485503Z
I should have said non-catholic Christians, and Catholic Christians to be fair.
Emilrose says2015-08-26T18:13:44.9468294Z
Nope, here you go again with the 'most' Christians'. If your assertion was correct, this would mean the majority of Christians globally, go around attempting to convert people to their religion; which they do not. One could also argue that Islam is a religion in favor of conversion. The only Abrahamic religion that doesn't prioritize such a thing is Judaism. However, I will state that your 'spread the gospels' reference is open to interpretation. Rather than literal conversion it could simply mean showing/exposing 'the gospels' to people.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-26T18:14:15.3920525Z
@reece -- and this is why I don't like to talk to you. You have NO comprehension of grammar, reading comprehension or logic and reasoning. You are stuck on the first amendment which has absolutely NOTHING to do with the argument. Free practice of religion and FOUNDATIONS BASED AROUND, are two COMPLETELY different things.
triangle.128k says2015-08-26T18:16:06.6920638Z
Yep, he's going to raging instead of explaining his point.
Emilrose says2015-08-26T18:17:44.0901903Z
Yep, abortion clinics in the U.S. Why is that you always seem to think you're the only country that exist? Many Christians in Europe and elsewhere may disagree with abortion but they do not necessarily go 'harassing' abortion clinics. What is even more ridiculous is that you're claiming 'most' of billions of people 'cause more problems than any other religion'. Your entire stance is based on personal bias, simple as that.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-26T18:18:01.8074154Z
@triangle -- What EXACTLY would you like me to explain? 13 years of grade school education in a single post?
reece says2015-08-26T18:20:32.8520721Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont You're the one getting into synonyms. Something that is based around and something that is based on still lead to the same conclusion (within the context of the constitution) an indirect meaning can still lead to the same inference as a direct one.
TBR says2015-08-26T18:21:54.1129930Z
@Emilrose - "Nope, here you go again with the 'most' Christians'. If your assertion was correct, this would mean the majority of Christians globally, go around attempting to convert people to their religion;" Are you saying that better than half of the Christians ignore the dozens of calls from both the new and old testaments to spread the faith? || "One could also argue that Islam is a religion in favor of conversion." - They do. They are above Christians on my bothersome religion list. As I think I said up-thread, I have more Christians around me, making them more PERSONAL bothersome. || "The only Abrahamic religion that doesn't prioritize such a thing is Judaism." - Yup. A big reason they come in UNDER other Abrahamic religion || "However, I will state that your 'spread the gospels' reference is open to interpretation. Rather than literal conversion it could simply mean showing/exposing 'the gospels' to people." - Interpreter how you like. I don't like it, it has a negative effect in my society, it is a bother to me.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-26T18:22:55.1873845Z
@reece -- HEY!!! Congrats! Yes! Foundations based ON and Foundations based AROUND are in fact the same exact thing. Foundations based on/around, however, is DIFFERENT than stating "You can only practice a single religion." Foundations based around ---- prohibited from --- see the difference?
TBR says2015-08-26T18:24:50.1133212Z
MakeSensePeopleDont "and so is every other mainstream religion. It's because it is what is written. However, as we have seen time and time again, the word of "God" is malleable with change in time and cultural acceptance. These things do not change overnight; specially because a law was passed by a government. Relax, give it time my friend." - I presume this was about evangelizing. That is not really true. The Abraham religions do, others do not.
reece says2015-08-26T18:25:17.2262950Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont You're using only one example to prove your case.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-26T18:26:47.3068894Z
@reece; @triangle --- You ready for this? Your lives are based AROUND THE FOUNDATIONS of personhood that your parents instilled upon you. This does NOT mean you are restricted to only the career path your parents have taken and the decisions they have made in their lives. It simply means, the FOUNDATIONS of your lives and what you perceive to be right and wrong as a person are based AROUND what they instilled onto you.
TBR says2015-08-26T18:31:11.2549644Z
@Emilrose - "Yep, abortion clinics in the U.S. Why is that you always seem to think you're the only country that exist?" - It is the country I can draw the most personal experience from. My opinions will be mostly formed from the environment I operate within. I don't deny that, and accept some level of criticism, but by necessity and honesty will speak from what I know best. || "Many Christians in Europe and elsewhere may disagree with abortion but they do not necessarily go 'harassing' abortion clinics." - Just less. They are still there. || "What is even more ridiculous is that you're claiming 'most' of billions of people 'cause more problems than any other religion'. Your entire stance is based on personal bias, simple as that." - Well, we are talking opinion. I have no available statics stating who is the most bothersome. I can, and have, provided stats to back individual points. Don't like it, I had no illusion you would like it.
reece says2015-08-26T18:31:57.8524631Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont You're not only yourself, but also ALL of your environment. Use some inductive reasoning too. Not just abductive/deductive.
triangle.128k says2015-08-26T18:33:18.5025198Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont I'm independent enough, but I see your reasoning. But would you care to explain how there are Judeo-Christian foundations in US culture? There's plenty of other religions in the USA, and we're generally considered a melting pot.
reece says2015-08-26T18:34:23.9461978Z
People only use one or two forms of reasoning on here.
dmussi12 says2015-08-26T18:40:07.6386102Z
I'd like to jump in here and say that by Judeo-Christian values, MakeSense isn't necessarily talking about spirituality and such. Certain values like individual responsibility and entrepreneurship came along with certain Christian sects (the Puritans, primarily). These values DID set the stage for our Constitution, and were instilled upon the masses by religion. I think it's important to recognize that. HOWEVER, these values can easily be separated from religious thought, which is what the Founders did. We can respect *these* values without lending any additional merit to religious belief. Which is why I agree with everything TBR brought up on anti-science/progress stances from Christians.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-26T18:45:59.2872266Z
@reece; @Triangle -- See this article for your starting point: http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2007/09/the_judeochristian_values_of_a.html Judeo-Christian Values have a foundational role in America, beginning with the Declaration of Independence: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness..." Since the pursuit of happiness, as Sigmund Freud surmised, is tied to human love and to creative work and play, the principles of American Judeo-Christian Values can rightly be summarized as the honoring of God-given Life, Liberty and Creativity[...]
reece says2015-08-26T18:51:13.6326719Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont It says "sorry we can't find the page you're looking for." But anyway assigning values with a religion is the same as assigning sex with porno.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-26T18:52:20.9042114Z
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2007/09/the_judeochristian_values_of_a.html
TBR says2015-08-26T18:52:48.4077166Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont - I don't entirely disagree with your premises, but the line from the Deceleration resonates as Deists. The founders had a Christian background, so even the Deists would be Christian Deists, but... Point remains.
reece says2015-08-26T18:55:06.8541669Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont My point still stands.
triangle.128k says2015-08-26T18:56:07.5697561Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont First off, the Decleration of Independence has NO relevancy to american law. It was simply a document to the world explaining why the founding fathers are starting their own country. You could easily say that "Life Liberty and Happiness" are Hindu values as well, or it could even be tied with Islam. The main motivation to rebel against Great Britain wasn't religious, it was political. You would know that if you had any sense of knowledge about the country's beginnings. The colonists were tired of Great Britain's oppression, so they formed their own country for POLITICAL reasons.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-26T19:04:59.4551656Z
@triangle -- Go join reece back in grade school -- reading comprehension. How do you tie your shoes in the morning? Nobody EVER said we declared our independence over religion.
reece says2015-08-26T19:06:00.4047563Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont Do you understand what i was getting at?
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-26T19:13:18.1435623Z
@reece -- Yes I do. I understand that in your drive to look intelligent on a website, you have successfully talked in circles about nothing, eventually proving my point. Your parents instilled a FOUNDATION of personhood. Your PERSONAL lifestyle, NOT DIRECTLY MIRRORING YOUR PARENTS, including your experiences, wants and needs; end with you having your own path. || In turn, America, our nation, based on the FOUNDATIONS of Judeo-Christian values, instilled a base PERSONHOOD (or national identity) in each of us as Americans. However, through each of our experiences, wants and needs, NOT DIRECTLY MIRRORING JUDEO-CHRISTIAN VALUES, end with each of us having our own unique path.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-26T19:15:29.9488072Z
Hence, FOUNDATIONS != Prohibition -- For those not familiar with software development, that meant: "FOUNDATIONS does not equal Prohibition."
triangle.128k says2015-08-26T19:15:48.7935102Z
@reece It's quite funny how MakeSensePeopleDont is resorting to insulting us and raging.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-26T19:18:03.4405626Z
@triangle -- No, YOU are insulting YOURSELF with your complete lack of reading comprehension. AND you are showing EXACTLY why it is that we spend so much money on education in this country, yet we are HORRIBLE in comparison to the world. Pure, inexcusable LAZINESS.
reece says2015-08-26T19:21:22.1272570Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont what a troll
reece says2015-08-26T19:27:51.3435597Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont What did i mean by it?
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-26T19:28:12.0448924Z
@reece -- Trolls don't educate. For example || Definitions -- Prohibit: to say that (something) is not allowed: Link -- http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prohibit || Foundation: something (such as an idea, a principle, or a fact) that provides support for something: Link -- http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/foundation || Just because I point out how embarrassing your education is, does NOT mean I am a troll.
reece says2015-08-26T19:29:21.1065351Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont Again, what did i mean?...
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-26T19:33:57.9771099Z
@reece -- Great example of your reading comprehension failure. You stated "Do you understand what i was getting at?" || I responded: "Yes I do. I understand that in your drive to look intelligent on a website[...]" || See that? I acknowledged that I understand what you were getting at. I then continued this statement by giving an explanation of EXACTLY what you were getting at.
reece says2015-08-26T19:35:45.9214050Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont I asked you "What did i mean by it?"
reece says2015-08-26T19:35:55.1338609Z
I asked you "What did i mean by it?"
reece says2015-08-26T19:36:58.0334641Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont Are you going to answer or act like a little b_tch?
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-26T19:38:24.5774730Z
@reece -- Again, I answered it already once, then referenced it in my previous post. READING COMPREHENSION
reece says2015-08-26T19:41:05.1390481Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont Referenced it but you didn't answer my question. Look below where i said "what a troll"
reece says2015-08-26T19:44:52.5417058Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont It seems your anger has gotten the better of you.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-26T19:47:37.8612594Z
@reece -- OK, why don't you explain to me what you're talking about then.
TBR says2015-08-26T19:48:04.2201345Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont & reece, I have no idea what is going on between the two of you. For the both of you, for what it is worth, I have given ground on the foundation aspects of the country - Christians will insist it is Christianity. That is just a known - not even worth bickering over. I see no reason it has any impact on a secular nation.
Blazzered says2015-08-26T20:00:15.9470970Z
Religion
reece says2015-08-26T20:00:34.6473449Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont "Assigning values with a religion is the same as assigning sex with porno." It works on so many levels. Sex and values are naturally occurring products of evolution compared to human constructs such as religion and porno. Values echo from religion to religion just as sex positions are duplicated from porno to porno. It is useless to say 'this is the values of [insert religion here]'
reece says2015-08-26T20:14:43.9377526Z
....These are the values...*
reece says2015-08-26T20:14:44.6967939Z
....These are the values...*
stargate says2015-08-26T20:40:40.7640702Z
Wow that happened quick.
triangle.128k says2015-08-26T20:49:56.7155250Z
@reece Pornography, you couldn't have given any other example? .-.
triangle.128k says2015-08-26T20:50:50.5057042Z
@reece Pornography, you couldn't have given any other example? .-.
reece says2015-08-26T21:00:27.5313366Z
@triangle.128k But it works on so many levels :(
reece says2015-08-26T21:00:32.0928053Z
@triangle.128k But it works on so many levels :(
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-26T21:06:29.6782975Z
@reece -- There is a separation between good values, questionable values and bad values now aren't there? Pornography = bad - questionable values; Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness = good values; Judeo-Christian based values = good values (for the overwhelming majority). See the difference?
reece says2015-08-26T21:15:55.8061879Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont Both Pornography and religion have good, questionable and bad aspects. I wouldn't need to explain religion but pornography can be good because it increases the fertility of sperm. It's great to watch with your partner if you guys want to conceive. I could keep going on, But anyway, That's beside my point. I was getting at how ideals get passed down.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-26T21:33:01.5437017Z
@reece -- #facepalm || Did you just google that or did you actually read the reports, subjects, data collected, etc.? || You state: "[...]pornography can be good because it increases the fertility of sperm. It's great to watch with your partner if you guys want to conceive[...] || This is NOT the case finding of the exam. First off, the human trials are extremely minimal and are relegated mostly to animal trials. Second, the findings of the small number of human trials show that it is NOT the pornography that increases potency or count of your little swimmers; instead, it is the feeling of inadequacy, rejection by your mate AND the natural fear of not being able to procreate and spread your genes. So, you want to increase potency and count? Call that guy that makes you jealous to have around your lady and bring him around to incite your deepest of fears....Rejection. || Again....Reading comprehension
reece says2015-08-26T22:07:09.9460324Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont No, i didn't search for it. I know there have been separate studies indicating better sperm fertility for humans when watching porn. But anyway i already told you that's beside my point. Stop trying to red herring.
reece says2015-08-26T22:08:56.1203130Z
I said my analogy works on so many levels; not all.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-26T22:25:51.7960237Z
@reece -- I'm not "red Herring-ing" you, I simply disputed your claim. You state that Pornography is both good and bad, citing that study for your "good" side. I simply pointed out the fact that you are wrong and in-turn, I successfully disproved your point. So, why don't YOU stop "red herring-ing" the community with falsities.
reece says2015-08-26T22:55:37.7578721Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont Good, questionable and bad sides have nothing to with my point. "I was getting at how ideals get passed down." it doesn't matter if they're Good, questionable or bad. Information is information...
reece says2015-08-26T22:57:13.6828870Z
It is useless to say 'These are the values of [insert religion here]
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-26T22:58:40.2855843Z
@reece -- so the values of Sharia Law based Islam are interchangeable with Judeo-Christian values?
reece says2015-08-26T23:07:36.2048775Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont Take evolution as a model. "Sharia Law" and "Judeo-Christian values" are connected by a common ancestor if you will.
reece says2015-08-26T23:10:32.6732087Z
Believe it or not Values are naturally occurring, even before religion.
reece says2015-08-26T23:12:27.3027435Z
Religion is a place to upload (back to the porn reference) morality of that time. Morality evolves.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-26T23:27:04.7696879Z
@reece -- Yes, they all started from Abraham from the Hebrew Bible, hence Abrahamic Religions. But they split off in their own directions creating their own value and belief systems; two of them on the path of charity, forgiveness and equality; the other on the path to oppressive Sharia Law and complete inequality even within the privacy of one's own home. || What's the point?
TBR says2015-08-26T23:33:28.2222979Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont - Deuteronomy and Leviticus can go toe-to-toe with any part of Shariah Law
reece says2015-08-26T23:36:52.6602979Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont Yet both sides think they're the correct side because of faith.
reece says2015-08-26T23:40:55.0542733Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont Again, Morality evolves. Religion is like a dictionary that tries it's hardest not to get updated, but fails every time.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-27T00:32:18.1924295Z
@reece -- The statement that religion is like a dictionary that tries to not get updated is just completely false. In fact, from the Middle Ages through to the French Revolution, the Catholic Church led the way in sponsoring scientific research. Then during the 1600's, The Society of Jesus took over the lead in scientific advancement in Europe from the Catholic Church. Cathedrals were designed specifically to be observatories for astronomical research. In fact, modern genetics was founded by an Abbot (Father), while growing peas in a monastic garden. All the stuff you hear about religion holding back science and advancement, burning people at the cross or crucifying them for practicing science and speaking out about scientific advancements, etc. is utterly false, and without religious institutions, we would not be as advanced as we are today.
reece says2015-08-27T00:46:26.3393763Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont I wasn't talking about scientific advancements. I was talking about morality in general. Many, if not all Abrahamic faiths are apposed going against what they teach even though the religions and denominations (of them) teach completely different things which often contradict each other.
reece says2015-08-27T00:47:47.1182475Z
You tried to red herring again.
TBR says2015-08-27T00:52:49.1995279Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont - You blew by my Deuteronomy question. You know there is a law to kill unbelievers in there just like in Islam, right?
TBR says2015-08-27T00:54:12.8628642Z
13:6 6 “If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son or your daughter or the wife you embrace[b] or your friend who is as your own soul entices you secretly, saying, ‘Let us go and serve other gods,’ which neither you nor your fathers have known, 7 some of the gods of the peoples who are around you, whether near you or far off from you, from the one end of the earth to the other, 8 you shall not yield to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him, nor shall you conceal him. 9 But you shall kill him. Your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. 10 You shall stone him to death with stones, because he sought to draw you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. 11 And all Israel shall hear and fear and never again do any such wickedness as this among you.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-27T01:21:17.3857915Z
@reece -- Yes, different denominations DO hold different beliefs and teachings. This is a perfect example of how malleable religion is; it shows how it changes over time. We can't expect the all mighty keeper of all religious texts to come down from the heavens and slap us across the face with a newly minted, more politically correct or modernized version of the texts that faiths use. Just as with groups of people (cultures, societies, etc.), we all come together under a uniform belief in something or goal to achieve; as time progresses, differences are found and rifts are built. Slowly but surely, different factions of a single group of people start to generate, they still (generally speaking) hold the same core beliefs and foundations, but smaller disagreements lead to different, smaller groups. This split will continue to grow into smaller and smaller groups indefinitely.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-27T01:26:33.1066867Z
@TBR -- Yes, I know that is there. However, it is about growth and evolution of faith. How many groups of Judeo-Christian "terrorists" do you see in the news running around the globe blowing themselves up, raping little boys, killing innocent civilians, etc.? BTW, did you know that the American Military allows Islamists to bring underage boys....Children....Onto base and rape them? I have to verify this myself, but from all accounts to this point, this is a secret the American Military has been hiding from the public in order to "Protect the native's rights".
reece says2015-08-27T01:31:41.4173919Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont So do you agree morality evolves with or without religious texts?
reece says2015-08-27T01:34:19.4026427Z
I'm not just talking about what you believe, but also the actions you take.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-27T01:41:12.9241414Z
@reece -- So do you agree morality evolves with or without religious texts? || No, I do not agree. The entire world is based on religion. Morality, even based in civil laws, are based on religion for this reason. Heck, even civil laws are based off of religion. So, whether you want to see it or not, your morals are DEEPLY rooted in religion.
TBR says2015-08-27T01:47:46.6141399Z
"However, it is about growth and evolution of faith." - Not for all Christians, not for all Muslims. || "How many groups of Judeo-Christian "terrorists" do you see" - Some, not as many as Islamic, that is why I dislike them more. || "raping little boys" - Well, Christians don't have a clean record on this one. || "killing innocent civilians, etc." - Some. || ? BTW, did you know that the American Military allows Islamists to bring underage boys....Children....Onto base and rape them? I have to verify this myself, but from all accounts to this point, this is a secret the American Military has been hiding from the public in order to "Protect the native's rights". - I would need more proof of this, but it would not surprise me .
reece says2015-08-27T01:52:43.0413652Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont Wow, religion must be really really old. How old is religion exactly?
reece says2015-08-27T01:58:02.4867311Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont *clicks fingers twice in front of you* come back to reality.
reece says2015-08-27T02:05:31.3618903Z
You believe morality started when religion started?
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-27T02:09:01.2300356Z
@TBR -- http://www.wnd.com/2013/11/u-s-marine-predicted-own-brutal-murder-by-ally/
TBR says2015-08-27T02:15:11.8728115Z
Thanks for the link. Again, don't doubt it. This quote was better than the subject anyway. ""They're not normal people, and we shouldn't be here. We're serving no purpose. We're being lied to. They're telling us one thing and it's a whole other agenda. They have their reasons for us to be there. And as soon as we stand up and say something, they make us disappear," the son confided to his father. || We should not be there. Pack the he11 up, leave.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-27T02:20:22.4864026Z
@reece -- Nobody knows how old religion is. In fact, we have NO IDEA how old intelligent thought process is with man. Archaeologists have begun dating new tool finds to 50,000; 70,000; even 3.3 MILLION years ago. WELL prior to what we see as intelligent man. So, how old is religion? If we want to answer honestly, we have no idea how old it is or when it started. They have actually come to majority agreement that Europeans were in America prior to the American Indians. || http://www.zmescience.com/other/most-amazing-unexplained-artifacts/ || http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-21/discovery-of-stone-tools-in-kenya-redefines-our/6487052 || http://www.livescience.com/50908-oldest-stone-tools-predate-humans.html
reece says2015-08-27T02:24:37.9592722Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont Intelligent thought is subjective when it comes to evolution, but again, You believe morality started when religion started?
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-27T02:33:57.1818685Z
@reece -- Pay attention here because you're about to hear something that a VERY small handful of people have ever, and will ever hear: As far as if I believe morality came before religion; I cannot answer that at this time in the slightest. I have not studied the development of the human brain throughout our evolution. (something I don't know) However, as my previous post as shown, even scientists are now questioning the popular understanding of the evolution of the human brain; so even if I had studied it, it would mean nothing at this time. However-ing my however; without researching it, I would make the very probable assumption that the human brain would require fairly equivalent development and data processing capabilities in order for a person to comprehend morality as it would to comprehend religion as we see it. Furthermore, basic comprehension of a "divine being" or "higher power" more powerful than oneself is actually a basic animalistic instinct required for survival; so, one could surmise that the bases of religion were accepted and comprehended LONG before morality was understood and comprehended. (Congrats, you just got a glimpse into how my thought process and logical data processing works.)
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-27T02:38:58.2821313Z
No disrespect or slide intended on the "you get a glimpse[...]" comment. It was meant to be acknowledgment of you seeing how quickly and logically my mind works and the fact that I never let anyone see that process....Even just a piece of it.
reece says2015-08-27T02:42:18.2157372Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont "@reece -- So do you agree morality evolves with or without religious texts? || No, I do not agree. The entire world is based on religion. Morality, even based in civil laws, are based on religion for this reason. Heck, even civil laws are based off of religion. So, whether you want to see it or not, your morals are DEEPLY rooted in religion." What ever you say...
reece says2015-08-27T02:45:25.3425352Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont There was no line where morality just popped into existence, Morality evolves like everything else.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-27T02:47:51.6353740Z
@reece -- Common law, civil law, societal law, even Civil Justice and even the modern judicial system including American are rooted in religion...Better believe it. || http://lawandliberty.org/justice.htm || There is a brief overview for you to start with.
reece says2015-08-27T02:49:30.3624176Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont But the world? Passed and present?
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-27T02:52:27.4451420Z
@reece -- I never said morality just "POOF" appears. I said it was directly associated with the evolutionary development of the human brain. Just a quick search finds this site, defining the currently researched and understood, complex data processing that occurs in parts of the brain that took quite some time to develop...Or so is thought. || http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3770908/
reece says2015-08-27T02:54:53.8835128Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont So i will ask you again; do you agree morality evolves with or without religious texts?
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-27T02:55:12.1509978Z
@reece -- Yes, the ENTIRE big ol' globe....Past, present and for the foreseeable future.
reece says2015-08-27T03:05:32.6917756Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont Thank you. Now do you agree morals get passed down From religion to religion?
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-27T03:06:19.8820781Z
@reece -- By my educated guess, seeing that basic survival instincts let any animal know that a creature much more powerful, large, quick, etc. than they are; are above them on the food chain and to respect them as such. In addition to the assumption of VERY early man coming into contact with, and interacting with creatures they have never seen before, doing things they cannot do; piled on top of the recent discoveries that even the most predatory of animals have the propensity to care for all living creatures even ones outside of their own species, including their normal prey, when welcomed; leading to the very realistic assumption that a "New, Weird and Powerful" creature never before encountered by man may well have assisted early man in accomplishing a task or two that early man perceived as impossible....I would say that early man had an idea of and thought process toward a "Higher Power", seeing the new creature as the "Higher Power" to not go against for fear of retaliation. Yes, this would have been the MOST utter of basic ideas of what we today call "Religion", but they in fact would have had the IDEA of it. So, in short: I believe that the comprehension of a "Higher Power" (religion) came well prior to morality.
reece says2015-08-27T03:06:43.2805020Z
Or some other origin?
reece says2015-08-27T03:06:52.8294893Z
Or some other origin?
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-27T03:10:15.8803909Z
@reece -- I don't believe I ever said morality does not come from religion. The entire conversation started with me saying we are based on Judeo-Christian values and you and triangle were denying that, citing the 1st Amendment. If I stated otherwise at some point in this dialog, my apologies; but I believe you were the one stating morality did NOT manifest from religion.
reece says2015-08-27T03:15:05.7381852Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont No, I've said there is morality (value) whether it involved religion or not. Just as there is sex even if porno doesn't exist. Can you answer my question?
reece says2015-08-27T03:17:55.4905371Z
Wait until you know what i'm trying to get across before questioning it.
reece says2015-08-27T03:24:42.9217844Z
But anyway It is useless to say 'These are the values of [insert religion here]' If those values originated from somewhere else.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-27T03:31:02.1879800Z
@reece -- OK, I just thought it through, and as simplistically as possible: No, there is no morality without religion. To come to this answer, we must first ask "What is religion?" The answer there is simple: "A belief in something larger than oneself or one's group." Morality is the distinction between right and wrong, good and bad. Thinking of this definition, one cannot have a choice between right and wrong, good and bad, unless they have a belief in a power (or other "thing") greater than themselves. Whether this is the survival of the species, protection of the group, territorial defense or takeover, or some other "higher cause"; you have a cause higher than yourself in which you believe in deeply. Think of this; without threat of reprisal from something greater than you or your group, what motivation do you have to make decisions based on morality as opposed to turning around, killing your neighbor or partner, then eating them for a quick easy meal or to make a tough decision easier?"
reece says2015-08-27T03:32:01.2499586Z
My tutor is coming over soon, i won't be able to reply.
reece says2015-08-27T03:38:56.9614234Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont Nvm, i won't be replying to you at all. That was a typical religious nut job response.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-27T03:41:40.3724709Z
@reece -- what? LOL I'm not even religious. Sounds like a cop-out response to me.
beatles321 says2016-04-29T20:16:52.0831575Z
I would say Donald Trump is
Haroush says2016-04-29T21:33:28.2470199Z
I agree with you beatles.
s-jiar says2016-12-06T06:56:49.9925214Z
It's obviously humans
WannaBePhoenix says2018-06-04T02:22:10.8791456Z
People. People are the biggest threat to world peace. There is no possibility of world peace.
robjohn says2018-10-20T22:20:19.4212575Z
None of the above, The anti-freedom ideology of collectivism is the greatest threat

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