What is the solution to gun violence in America?

Posted by: tajshar2k

Add answers to what you think is right.

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51 Total Votes
1

Federal Background checks, Fund mental health institutions

27 votes
6 comments
2

Arm everyone

Do you see the armed folks in the room being robbed in the future? Exactly.
7 votes
0 comments
3

Their isn't a solution

5 votes
1 comment
4

Ban guns

4 votes
1 comment
5

0 restrictions

2 votes
0 comments
6

Reduce poverty and improve education nationally

2 votes
0 comments
7

Prevent people with mental illness and a history of violence from obtaining guns

2 votes
1 comment
8

Rewarding citizens who stop shooters with concealed carry handguns

1 vote
1 comment
9

Increase police security in public places

1 vote
0 comments
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briantheliberal says2015-08-11T00:05:49.2401855Z
Ending the drug war as well. Provide extra security for public places.
TBR says2015-08-11T00:13:02.8761652Z
Change gun culture
tajshar2k says2015-08-11T00:18:10.0733344Z
@TBR How do you intend for that too happen?
PetersSmith says2015-08-11T00:44:33.1545372Z
Don't let users add their own answers.
TBR says2015-08-11T01:32:47.7006197Z
Same way any culture change happens. Time. Homosexuals were generally shunned in general society only 30 years ago. We have come a long way just by talking about it. Those that worship guns will someday seem like the homophobes today.
Renegader says2015-08-11T01:39:57.7854488Z
No one worships guns, people just want the freedom to purchase what they want.
TBR says2015-08-11T01:49:39.9655807Z
@Renegader - "No one worships guns" Seriously.... We are in a gun loving nation. Want me to find imagery to make my point?
TBR says2015-08-11T01:51:04.7209240Z
http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/uncyclopedia/images/8/81/Bible_Gun.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120501081121 Want to know how many I found like that?
briantheliberal says2015-08-11T01:52:39.8290615Z
Renegader, ha! Yeah right. I live in a region full of conservative gun worshippers. The NRA is probably the most infamous example of gun-nuts in this country.
TBR says2015-08-11T01:53:46.3478879Z
Got the Jesus man himself in plenty of poses with guns too. http://clashdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/jesus-gun-cd.jpg
TBR says2015-08-11T01:56:28.9789304Z
The endless varity of sexulising guns http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090727233037/uncyclopedia/images/2/2d/Women_and_guns_04.jpg
Renegader says2015-08-11T02:07:03.6434709Z
Regardless of how many backwoods hicks sleep with their guns, prohibition is a dick move with minuscule benefit. Background checks and even mental health exams are perfectly fine. The issue is a freedom issue for most gun owners. Less than 1% of legal gun owners commit crimes.
Plexon_Warrior says2015-08-11T02:15:10.8133216Z
Anyone remember the Prohibition of the 20's and 30's... The criminals didn't give up their alcohol. That is what will happen with a gun ban. Law-abiding citizens will be disarmed and criminals will keep their guns... It's just helping the criminals, by disarming their victims.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-11T02:17:37.1137574Z
It's amazing how close-minded people are on this site. Stop blaming guns and stereotyping gun owners.
TBR says2015-08-11T02:42:19.2877866Z
@Renegader - And I said nothing of a prohibition.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-11T02:44:30.9994309Z
@TBR -- You know what harms and kills more Americans every year than guns? Unhealthy food and specifically fast food. Here's the sexualization of those...7 just from Carl's Jr. Where are your priorities? .. http://www.fashiongonerogue.com/7-famous-carls-jr-commercial-girls/
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-11T02:56:48.8685608Z
I went to Walmart a few days ago, and after checking out, I put my bags in the cart, turned to walk out, and saw a woman so fat she had to sit down at the front of the store while her family shopped. What was she doing? Eating chicken wings....Wings...Really? I didn't see some "crazy conservative gun fanatic" sitting there popping off magazine after magazine, spilling hundreds or thousands of rounds into shoppers; I saw a fat lady, too lazy and out of shape to shop for herself and her family, sitting down at the entrance to the store in a chair the employees had to get for her, with a tub of wings in one arm, the other arm shoveling them into her mouth like an Auschwitz victim that saw a full meal for the first time in months. This happens millions of times a day...In fact, here is a website from the NCSL showing the percentage of only self proclaimed obese Americans....Look at this percentage: http://www.ncsl.org/research/health/obesity-statistics-in-the-united-states.aspx THAT is a real problem...Not this gun nonsense.
Sarra says2015-08-11T03:06:14.2205587Z
Statistically speaking, gun violence is down this entire decade. Fears are up because Republicans need to keep fear alive to keep their political party going. Do you want to know what kills WAY more people than guns? http://www.eistone.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Hospital-Bed.jpg + not http://www.1015kcls.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/bigstock-Woman-Washing-Hand-Under-Runni-5468417.jpg
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-11T03:18:14.4416016Z
@Sara -- Are you a troll or do you not understand the party you vote for? DEMOCRATS are the gun fear guys...Not Republicans. All your posts seem to be the same backwards comments.
Renegader says2015-08-11T03:42:05.7039763Z
@TBR - But don't you support gun bans? I agree guns shouldn't be glamorized as much but I really thought your dislike was beyond "gun culture."
Heterodox says2015-08-11T06:04:37.0235921Z
Why limit it to gun violence? Wouldn't the question be just as fun if you just asked, "What is the solution to violence in America?" Heck, why look at America alone why not ask, "What is the solution to violence?" Anyway, as long as America is a free, or at least more free than many other countries, and have the ability to obtain (legally or illegally) there will always be gun violence. In other words, you can't stop it - can only lessen it. If you want to lessen it without removing people's freedoms, look at some of the causes. The biggest one that comes to mind is the mass criminalization of its populace, ie. The War on Drugs. Prohibition doesn't work, we (USA) should really know better...
TBR says2015-08-11T18:18:35.4658574Z
@Renegader - No I don't. If we want to take a serious effort to change the 2nd amendment I would be up for it. I still would not ban all guns. It really is about the pervasiveness of guns in the society. The constant "got to arm up, because there are hordes of villains around every blind turn" is what I have the biggest issue with. Concealed carry, the lust for shooting anything that is a perceived threat. Killing over property, these are my issues.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-11T18:54:31.8520803Z
@TBR -- So you are against...Illegal use of firearms...What we already have laws against...Interesting. So what would your changes to the 2nd Amendment be exactly?
TBR says2015-08-11T19:07:17.1790196Z
I would back repealing the 2nd amendment. I have no interest in a ban at any time. If we were in a post-2nd amendment (RTKABA) world, I would not support concealed (or open) carry. I would support a national background check. I would support restrictions based on gun features. I would support a number of more restrictive policies.
TBR says2015-08-11T19:09:36.1808999Z
There is no requirement for the right to be in our constitution to allow guns in some fashion. We are among the very few that have any mention IN our constitution. http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/04/05/how-many-countries-have-gun-rights-enshrined-in-their-constitutions/
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-11T19:32:37.9063344Z
@TBR -- Not sure what you were pointing out in that post. All it really details is that the Supreme Court shot down Democrat attempts at banning hand guns and other fire arms in 2008. The courts ruled that it was unconstitutional and that Americans are given the right to self defense by use of fire systems within the bounds of local, state and federal law. Here are the questions I have for you: 1) What "features" of fire systems would you ban? 2) What exactly is your conflict with fire arms? 3) What would you do if you got your way, you were sitting on the couch with your family watching a movie, and Johnny Rape, Jesse Burglar, Sonny Torturer, and Mathew Murder kicked in your front door? Literally 2 seconds to save your family...What do you do?
TBR says2015-08-11T20:08:36.9332058Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont - "Supreme Court shot down Democrat attempts at banning hand guns and other fire arms in 2008. The courts ruled that it was unconstitutional and that Americans are given the right to self defense by use of fire systems within the bounds of local, state and federal law." - No disagreement on this. That is why the only mechanism is an amendment. || "1) What "features" of fire systems would you ban?" - Ideally I would not outright ban anything, but on a much more curved balance with need, I would allow bolt-action rifles and breech loaded shotgun. Then on more restrictive terms, I would allow single action handgun, up the scale, double action. Then the semi-auto range, then on to full auto range. Each step along the way would come with greater need and responsibility. || "2) What exactly is your conflict with fire arms?" - The number, and types available are unnecessary for the purpose they serve, and are a general determent to our society. || "3) What would you do if you got your way, you were sitting on the couch with your family watching a movie, and Johnny Rape, Jesse Burglar, Sonny Torturer, and Mathew Murder kicked in your front door? Literally 2 seconds to save your family...What do you do?" This is the terror all gun supporters live under. Fact is, I don't have a gun, never have. My family never has (for defense). It is just unnecessary. The cases you describe in your paranoid preparation just aren't common enough for the need.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-11T20:22:55.5584782Z
@TBR -- Tell this lady that double action handguns are bad...Or how about responding to these guys: http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Arlington-Police-Investigating-Burglary-301146361.html -- http://www.wxyz.com/news/region/wayne-county/southgate-police-homeowner-kills-armed-home-invasion-suspect -- http://www.whio.com/news/news/crime-law/police-tape-surrounds-preble-co-home-careflight-ca/nmw93/ And that's just what I found in about 45 seconds.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-11T20:24:40.9839540Z
@TBR -- Point is...Maybe you don't or have never and hey, maybe you will NEVER need to defend yourself or your family...But someone, somewhere in the U.S., every day is put in this position.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-11T20:28:02.7165191Z
@TBR -- oh hey, just thought about this one...About 18 months ago, just as I moved into my apartment in the heart of richie land...Literally 2 weeks after moving in; a man broke into a female's apartment and raped her...She wished she had a nice semi-auto firearm to use.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-11T20:34:47.4704381Z
@TBR -- Furthermore, do you even understand what the difference is between single and double action firearms? The difference is trigger pull pressure. Single action will have say an 8 lb pull which takes a good amount of strength and results in smaller individuals have increased inaccuracy; double action means if the hammer is in the full resting position against the firing pin it has say an 8 lb pull pressure then there is a second position in which the hammer is pulled back and requires only say 3 lb pull pressure to fire resulting in better accuracy.
TBR says2015-08-11T20:48:55.7612334Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont - Citing some cases where a gun was useful is no different then me citing all the cases where it has been a determent. We could bicker case by case, but that has never been useful. As for single action and double action, your description in inaccurate.
TBR says2015-08-11T20:54:18.7769040Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont - Let me be very clear. Up thread the common refrain was "I want to ban guns". That is not true. I want to change gun culture. The device itself can be fitted better with utility. Generally, they are.... Over-prescribed.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-11T21:01:51.5074061Z
@TBR -- Yes it was not accurate; SA requires you to manually cock the hammer, DA cocks and fires in a single trigger pull. However, built into DA pistols today, as opposed to 19th and early 20th century models, is the decreased trigger pull. Sorry for not specifying that. Additionally, citing cases is the base of making a point. Finally, changing gun culture has nothing to do with changing laws or changing the constitution: cite prohibition of the early 20th century...That cultural change worked out very well
tajshar2k says2015-08-11T21:13:50.1884130Z
@TBR Whats the use banning concealed carry?
TBR says2015-08-11T21:25:12.6147875Z
@tajshar2k - There is little utility in concealed (open) carry. The few that have need would have to pass much more stringent requirements. The problem at this point is again in gun culture. The average person gains little utility, and is only adding to a social problem.
TBR says2015-08-11T21:26:11.8795674Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont - You keep harping on banning guns. As I have stated many times, I don't propose a ban on guns.
tajshar2k says2015-08-11T21:27:07.1819219Z
@TBR I think people should choose whether they want to protect themselves.
TBR says2015-08-11T21:27:10.2083413Z
If you only want to do the endless bickering, then http://gawker.com/5828944/arizona-man-accidentally-shoots-his-penis-off
tajshar2k says2015-08-11T21:29:08.1606974Z
@TBR Thats cherry-picking at its finest. Millions of gun owners are responsible people who use guns for responsible purposes. Banning concealing carry is pretty stupid. I can agree with banning open carry in urban cities, but the whole point of CCW is to serve as deterrence.
triangle.128k says2015-08-11T21:30:21.0274421Z
@tajshar2k What's wrong with cherry picking? Cherries taste pretty good, I just ate a few.
tajshar2k says2015-08-11T21:30:57.2833969Z
"The few that have need would have to pass much more stringent requirements" I have no problem with that, but you just said you support *banning CCW* Whats the point of a gun if you can't conceal it, or carry in the open for that matter?
tajshar2k says2015-08-11T21:32:21.8203388Z
@triangle.128k You need to work on your timing. We are having a serious discussion involving the lives of innocent children.
triangle.128k says2015-08-11T21:34:30.2247619Z
Oh sorry, I didn't notice the part on innocent lives being taken. I'll stay out.
tajshar2k says2015-08-11T21:35:33.2335658Z
@triangle Was that sarcasm?
triangle.128k says2015-08-11T21:37:11.4673955Z
No, i'm being serious. Unless you're referring to the cherry picking part.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-11T22:02:13.2578223Z
@TBR -- Cherry picking? How's this for cherry picking? How many of these guys, who are the guys we use firearms to really protect ourselves from, are going to follow your new laws? http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://facethepolitics.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/486110_10151215116266226_1955480081_n-300x201.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.dogsonacid.com/threads/welcome-to-americas-weekly-mass-shooting-thread.743067/page-18&h=201&w=300&tbnid=KQ9XYEvv5hTSlM:&docid=Ys-npUrE1NladM&itg=1&ei=XG_KVaz9N4nboATv6oGABQ&tbm=isch&ved=0CBsQMygYMBg4ZGoVChMIrJuOzoKixwIViS2ICh1vdQBQ -- http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1704969!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_970/guns1n-13-web.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/memphis-teen-posts-gallery-guns-drugs-cash-hours-shot-dead-friend-article-1.1704982&h=658&w=970&tbnid=aEPnW8p0H9hbtM:&docid=7H48BgaocsulGM&ei=Vm_KVeLiLYyuogTd5KDgAQ&tbm=isch&ved=0CHkQMyhSMFJqFQoTCOLllcuCoscCFQyXiAodXTIIHA ---- http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://3m12dd41gw8bqlgg62dfsvyl.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Black-Thug-Culture-2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://downtrend.com/vsaxena/m-catharine-evans-fundamental-transformation&h=448&w=600&tbnid=LS-8RCfS89VEbM:&docid=yckXjTCA-PQXMM&ei=Vm_KVeLiLYyuogTd5KDgAQ&tbm=isch&ved=0CE0QMygmMCZqFQoTCOLllcuCoscCFQyXiAodXTIIHA ---- http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://cdn.rollingstone.com/feature/the-gangster-in-the-huddle/img/flip_hernandez.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.rollingstone.com/feature/the-gangster-in-the-huddle&h=305&w=305&tbnid=SLpKygI1BAoFTM:&docid=dE_wAPyzwPO5DM&ei=Vm_KVeLiLYyuogTd5KDgAQ&tbm=isch&ved=0CEcQMyggMCBqFQoTCOLllcuCoscCFQyXiAodXTIIHA ----- http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.americasfreedomfighters.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/BLAK.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.americasfreedomfighters.com/2015/01/01/unbelievable-but-true-gang-of-teen-thugs-beat-up-boston-police-officers/&h=377&w=500&tbnid=401ltSGBOmacHM:&docid=1f7gXK74sKEq-M&ei=Vm_KVeLiLYyuogTd5KDgAQ&tbm=isch&ved=0CCMQMygGMAZqFQoTCOLllcuCoscCFQyXiAodXTIIHA ---- http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://downtrend.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/posgb2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://downtrend.com/71superb/shameless-salon-compares-murderous-gang-banging-thugs-to-brave-american-troops&h=391&w=600&tbnid=oG8i4thyqGDznM:&docid=pW4yzvLEpnXCEM&ei=Vm_KVeLiLYyuogTd5KDgAQ&tbm=isch&ved=0CCgQMygLMAtqFQoTCOLllcuCoscCFQyXiAodXTIIHA
TBR says2015-08-11T22:08:07.1447684Z
See, now its just swapping story's. Who cares? It helps no one. It doesn't make me think you have a point, and you learn nothing about where I am coming from. That was the point tajshar2k. Its a pointless exercise, and really has nothing to do with the discussion at-hand.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-11T22:52:55.1369214Z
@TBR -- That's the point...You're trying to combat illegal behavior by enacting new laws and regulations. So in essence you are saying "Hey people who are breaking the law, we are now making new laws which you need to follow." It's like having a 45 MPH speed limit on the street you live on, a very small few people doing 65 MPH creating a dangerous environment, and the government saying "OK, now the speed limit is 35 MPH." and expecting the criminals you are trying to combat to all of a sudden follow the new law.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-11T22:53:06.8213963Z
@TBR -- That's the point...You're trying to combat illegal behavior by enacting new laws and regulations. So in essence you are saying "Hey people who are breaking the law, we are now making new laws which you need to follow." It's like having a 45 MPH speed limit on the street you live on, a very small few people doing 65 MPH creating a dangerous environment, and the government saying "OK, now the speed limit is 35 MPH." and expecting the criminals you are trying to combat to all of a sudden follow the new law.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-11T22:56:16.1286098Z
@TBR -- The question should NOT be "What new laws can we make to restrict law abiding citizens?" the question should be "How do we get the criminals to start following the law?" Problem is once the government steps up and increases police presence in an area to combat high crime areas, all of a sudden you have Liberals yelling out "RACISM RACISM RACISM!!!"
TBR says2015-08-11T23:02:20.3740223Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont - Criminals will not follow the law. There is no controversy there. Addressing the unhealthy gun culture will help all the non-criminals. That is the focus.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-11T23:04:03.1488035Z
@TBR -- You just admitted you are attacking the law abiding citizens...Why? What problem are you solving there?
TBR says2015-08-11T23:05:40.5389054Z
You suffer from the same affliction others do. A paranoia about criminal activity. We, as a society, are LESS violent. The picture you might get from the gun supporters is everyone needs to be packing 24x7 because its such a dangerous world. Well, it just isn't that dangerous.
TBR says2015-08-11T23:09:00.8129892Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont - You say attacking, I say protecting. That includes the armed and unarmed.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-11T23:09:22.3736498Z
@TBR -- But why? Seems like you suffer from Barrack Obama Syndrome (BOS)..."If it ain't broke, I'll keep fixing it til it is."
TBR says2015-08-11T23:11:07.0347207Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont - Broken? Yes, absolutely our culture is broken as it relates to guns. We have obsession with them.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-11T23:12:17.4847723Z
@TBR -- Sooo by your logic: We have an obsession with computers, let's ban those.
TBR says2015-08-11T23:13:33.8004615Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont - Sophomoric. We have many used for computers, very few for guns, and most of them a net negative for society.
TBR says2015-08-11T23:14:58.5558048Z
And you keep saying "ban". Look back, I have no interest in banning guns. I ran through how I would legalize guns in an environment without the 2nd
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-11T23:18:01.9349803Z
@TBR -- That's pretentious or juvenile? Well how about this one: Poor dieting habits kill WAY more Americans every year and cost WAY more in damages than guns do. That being said, let's ban and regulate food intake, tell you exactly what you can and can't eat, ban restaurants, force specific exercise routines; heck let's just make a law to only allow eating soilent green and require all jobs in the nation to be riding a stationary bike to generate power we are never allowed to use to watch TV since that contributes to bad health.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-11T23:19:06.0669914Z
@TBR -- you are BANNING gun components and features....That IS by definition a BAN.
TBR says2015-08-11T23:19:57.7189225Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont - Addressing our society out of control diet and obesity is a logical thing to do. I want to do that too, just as I want to address our unhealthy fixation with guns.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-11T23:21:02.1161353Z
@TBR -- so your resolution would be to remove freedom from a free society built on...Freedom?
TBR says2015-08-11T23:22:14.4992769Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont - You are locked into this part of the discussion, and I will defend it. If you look back, however, I have been consistent talking about changing gun culture. Amending the constitution is a thought experiment. If someone were to serious propose it, I would back it with no hope of it going anywhere. We need to first address the obsession with guns. That is the way to fix this.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-11T23:23:59.8948749Z
@TBR -- you are the reason why I chose the name I have. 100% pure example of the definition of it's meaning.
TBR says2015-08-11T23:24:18.1313918Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont - Complete strawman. I think you are running low on insults. The way to change is to change the perceptions. Change the attitudes. Same thing happened with same-sex marriage. Attitudes change over time, and sometimes quickly.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-11T23:26:12.7141263Z
@TBR -- EXACTLY!!! You just proved the point. The cultural views on same-sex marriage and relations changed ON ITS OWN!!! Not by the government shoving laws down people's throats.
TBR says2015-08-11T23:27:53.5843729Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont - RIGHT, and that is what I am attempting to get at. Are you just not reading what I write?
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-11T23:32:17.3040634Z
@TBR -- Are you reading what you write? You want to ban double action pistols, decrease mag sizes, restricting semi-auto firearms, etc. based on need: basically restrict restrict restrict and how do you restrict? BY SHOVING NEW LAWS DOWN PEOPLE'S THROATS!!! And who determines need? Who determines approval and disapproval? LAWS...More LAWS.
TBR says2015-08-11T23:37:35.2653016Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont - I just don't think you are reading. My first post was "Change gun culture" followed by 'Same way any culture change happens. Time. Homosexuals were generally shunned in general society only 30 years ago. We have come a long way just by talking about it. Those that worship guns will someday seem like the homophobes today." and on until "No I don't. If we want to take a serious effort to change the 2nd amendment I would be up for it. I still would not ban all guns. It really is about the pervasiveness of guns in the society. " If you can;'t read or understand, I can't help you.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-11T23:45:37.4019922Z
@TBR -- No, read your own posts. You started with comparing gay people to gun ownership which makes no sense, then you moved to the sexualization of guns, then you moved to backing the repeal of the 2nd amendment, and it went downhill from there...So if YOU can't read or remember what you wrote...Nobody can help you.
tajshar2k says2015-08-11T23:53:35.2161327Z
"See, now its just swapping story's. Who cares? It helps no one. It doesn't make me think you have a point, and you learn nothing about where I am coming from. That was the point tajshar2k. Its a pointless exercise, and really has nothing to do with the discussion at-hand."Uhhh, what was the point of that comment, I seriously do not understand.
tajshar2k says2015-08-11T23:57:45.6614605Z
You failed to refute than banning open carry and CCW, is the pretty much the same thing as banning guns. Thats like saying your allowed to buy burgers, but you are banned from eating them.
TBR says2015-08-12T00:45:45.4867208Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont - You are just out of steam. Look back, and be honest.
TBR says2015-08-12T00:49:45.6346602Z
@tajshar2k - The point of posting the ridiculous shooting off your penus story was to illustrate swapping links is not fruitful. Tit-for-tat I can find stories of guns being negative. Its just pointless. As to the Cc etc, you 1) seem to be going the same way as the other guy. I have said consistently I want to change gun culture. I, when asked directly, gave a vision for a post 2nd America. Throughout I have stated emphatically, I am not after banning guns. Now, " banning open carry and CCW, is the pretty much the same thing as banning guns. Thats like saying your allowed to buy burgers, but you are banned from eating them." this is silly. This contradicts the pro-gun arguments that guns have many uses, including home protection, right?
TBR says2015-08-12T00:50:54.0254986Z
And MakeSensePeopleDont - again, I don't think you even read the LAST post about this. I STARTED with "change gun culture" then "Same way any culture change happens. Time. Homosexuals were generally shunned in general society only 30 years ago. We have come a long way just by talking about it. Those that worship guns will someday seem like the homophobes today.".
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-12T00:59:08.9074709Z
@TBR -- Allow me to copy/paste your posts for you in order: 1) Change gun culture (Good Start) 2) Same way any culture change happens. Time. Homosexuals were generally shunned in general society only 30 years ago. We have come a long way just by talking about it. Those that worship guns will someday seem like the homophobes today. (WHOA!!! Now people who enjoy firearms are no better than bigots, Klan members and Nazis?) 3) @Renegader - "No one worships guns" Seriously.... We are in a gun loving nation. Want me to find imagery to make my point? (Who cares if we like our guns, welcome to America) 4) http://vignette3.Wikia.Nocookie.Net/uncyclopedia/images/8/81/Bible_Gun.Jpg/revision/latest?Cb=20120501081121 Want to know how many I found like that? (The word of God…the Bible…is more powerful than a gun…OK, what’s your point?) 5) Got the Jesus man himself in plenty of poses with guns too. http://clashdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/jesus-gun-cd.jpg (My view...If Jesus didn’t like guns then why did he create them?) 6) The endless varity of sexulising guns http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090727233037/uncyclopedia/images/2/2d/Women_and_guns_04.jpg (That is quite a sexy girl…nothing better than a hott girl firing rounds down range.) 7) @Renegader - And I said nothing of a prohibition. (NOT YET YOU HAVEN’T) 8) @Renegader - No I don't. If we want to take a serious effort to change the 2nd amendment I would be up for it. (THERE IT IS!!!) 9) I would back repealing the 2nd amendment. I have no interest in a ban at any time. If we were in a post-2nd amendment (RTKABA) world, I would not support concealed (or open) carry. I would support a national background check. I would support restrictions based on gun features. I would support a number of more restrictive policies. (And here is your injection of new laws my friend. Let’s take a direct quote from your RTKABA by the way…AHEM….” Laws that forbid the carrying of arms.Disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater . Confidence than an armed man." Thomas Jefferson, quoting Cesare Beccaria in On Crimes and punishment (1764” How about another quote? "Americans need not fear the federal government because they enjoy the advantage of being armed, which you possess over the people of almost every other nation." James Madison. So how does this work with your idea?
TBR says2015-08-12T01:01:55.7960183Z
RIght and you are obsessing with this while purposely mischaracterizing my start, and focus. Change gun culture.
TBR says2015-08-12T01:03:33.3902439Z
There is the strawman you want to argue with, and me. Choose who you want to engague.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-12T01:05:57.4740899Z
@TBR -- Are you two different people? Multiple Personality Disorder? I literally just copy/pasted your posts IN ORDER.
TBR says2015-08-12T01:08:41.0242159Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont - I take that as you want to argue the strawman you have created. If you have no interest in pretending you are an adult, then there is little I can do. IF you WANT me to "defend" my model you insisted on in an imaginary post 2nd amendment America, then you must first give some signal you get it, and get my true focus on changing gun culture.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-12T01:12:44.0282960Z
@TBR -- Here's what I want you to do: 1) Take the word "strawman" out of your vocabulary, nobody is setting up false arguments on your behalf to prove you wrong. 2) CONVEY YOUR POINT CLEARLY AND ON TOPIC 3) This is not an imaginary world, stick to the topic at hand which is stopping gun violence in America; circa THE PRESENT NON-FICTIONAL WORLD.
TBR says2015-08-12T01:16:51.5238825Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont - You you cant. You are incapable of looking back, and seeing that from start to finnish I have been pushing for a change in gun culture. Further, the model of gun laws was in response to what I would do in a environment without a 2nd ammendment. You are ridiculous. I gave you an opportunity, said I would discuss each of these points if you would only be honest about what my clear focus has been on. GUN CULTURE!
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-12T01:19:18.2428230Z
@TBR -- Again, read the 3 points then in the words of the great Apu "Thank you, come again!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h7OXlPeMQI
TBR says2015-08-12T01:23:37.5463628Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont - So, it would seem you are terrified of discussing the real issue, GUN CULTURE! You only wanted to bicker when it was on turf you think you know? BANS. All, the gun culture in america is the root of this issue, and not much of any of it will change until the culture changes.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-12T01:27:08.7262389Z
@TBR -- OK, let's do that one...Gun culture in America. Is the problem the culture consisting of those "gun clenching, bible thumping, Red Neck, Hicks" that are legal owners of firearms and even members of the NRA? Or is the cultural problem the hip hop / rap, thug, gang life, drug dealing, hoe slapping, 6-4 ridding criminals?
Haroush says2015-08-12T01:29:32.6683616Z
Exactly@ MSPD
Haroush says2015-08-12T01:30:49.7328556Z
If you want to take my guns, you will have to take my dead body too.
TBR says2015-08-12T01:32:16.3120882Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont - I will give you some slack, and hope you don't go into the same ad-hominems and mischaracterizations. So... "Gun culture in America. Is the problem the culture consisting of those "gun clenching, bible thumping, Red Neck, Hicks" that are legal owners of firearms and even members of the NRA?" - Yes, that's the one. || "Or is the cultural problem the hip hop / rap, thug, gang life, drug dealing, hoe slapping, 6-4 ridding criminals?" - These are criminals and are outside the conversation. Criminals are criminals. Your rhetoric was purposefully inflammatory, but I will meet you on reasonable ground to discuss if you can behave like an adult.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-12T01:32:25.4706693Z
Best adverts ever on my screen for this poll...Left side has an NRA ad for a free knife with membership, right side has single girls best dating site with a girl stopped on the side of the road showing off her butt.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-12T01:35:37.9135029Z
@TBR -- So again, your argument is to change the gun culture so that legal, law abiding citizens no longer want guns to protect themselves from the criminals toting firearms...Of which you have no intention of addressing? Change the non-problem while ignoring the actual problem?
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-12T01:39:02.2280126Z
@TBR -- Am I missing something here?
Haroush says2015-08-12T01:42:50.0674731Z
This may be taking too big of a liberal stance for TBR @ MSPD
TBR says2015-08-12T01:48:33.8156766Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont - Nope, not really. I want people to be less frightened by every bump in the night, and be less inclined to buy unnecessary guns. I want people to stop sexualizing guns, and treat them as the devices they are. Make a good decision if it is really necessary carry one around every time they go to the coffee shop, or is that just fearful behavior. It can and very may happen. It may happen relatively quickly. By that I mean perhaps twenty or thirty years. We are steeped in guns now. It will take time to move that.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-12T01:51:20.2999438Z
@TBR -- Q: How do you decrease fear in a community? A: Decrease the crime and criminal behavior in the neighborhood so the law abiding residents don't feel afraid. Hence, you go after the criminals, not the law abiding citizens.
Haroush says2015-08-12T01:55:41.7264196Z
@TBR, Why do guns have to be so frightening? Really why do they? You can own guns to go hunting, including hand guns. When it comes to being afraid, people are more so afraid of gang bangers with illegal guns then anything else. These guns they get come from the black market, not gun stores.
TBR says2015-08-12T01:56:18.2306536Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont - Efforts to reduce crime and violence are on-going. The truth is, we live in a less violent world already. The perception is that it is MORE violent. You convince people by talking about it... Like the adults that we all know they can be.
Haroush says2015-08-12T01:57:22.3002643Z
The funny part is places in which have more restrictions on guns have higher crime rates.. Like you know who.. Baltimore, Maryland.
Haroush says2015-08-12T02:00:04.5725045Z
What are you going to do ban the use of guns from police officers? If you want to live in a gun free country with liberal values, go to Great Britain, France, or some other European country. You are the unpatriotic individual here.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-12T02:00:57.9703244Z
@TBR -- OK, so you live in a place where crime is on the decline and you feel safe enough to not require a firearm. That's YOUR perception and life. Now open the tunnel vision to other places, go to Detroit, MI, Baltimore, MD, Ferguson, MO, etc. Now look through their eyes. The crime and criminal behavior there and in many other places is truly scary. Do you think they are wrong for wanting to protect themselves? 18 months ago a young lady a few apartments down from me was raped, is it wrong for me to want to have a firearm to protect myself and my wife?
TBR says2015-08-12T02:01:52.6031970Z
@Haroush - You have a causation and correlation issue with these arguments. The problems high crime areas have are many. To try to connect them with restrictive gun policy is not a good argument. But, please try to stay on track. I am talking about gun culture right now, and it has taken a lot of work to get the conversation anywhere but off-track.
Haroush says2015-08-12T02:05:29.8969899Z
Lmao, How is connecting the gun- restriction polices with higher crime rates a bad argument? Go ahead and explain. Especially, in specific situations like Baltimore and the other places MSPD mentioned.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-12T02:07:40.7649064Z
@TBR -- Here are the crime stats 1960 - 2013...Dont look to be decreasing to me.... || http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm
TBR says2015-08-12T02:08:09.0946880Z
MakeSensePeopleDont - "OK, so you live in a place where crime is on the decline" - I don't. It is on a rise. Overall violent crime is down across the nation, and has been on this trend since the late 70's. || "and you feel safe enough to not require a firearm. That's YOUR perception and life." - Yes it is. "Now open the tunnel vision to other places, go to Detroit, MI, Baltimore, MD, Ferguson, MO, etc. Now look through their eyes." - Look I have. I have lived in Chicago, I have been in high crime areas. This is not some fairytale I am living. || "The crime and criminal behavior there and in many other places is truly scary." - Stop being so scared. If you are not interacting with criminals, you will not very likely to be in a violent confrontation. "Do you think they are wrong for wanting to protect themselves? " - I think they are allowing themselves to get a feeling of safety from a gun, not necessarily the real safety they desire. || 18 months ago a young lady a few apartments down from me was raped, is it wrong for me to want to have a firearm to protect myself and my wife?" - I am very sorry about this. I understand the desire to want to protect your wife. This argument is not heartless, but I would offer that your wife with a gun may not be any more safe, and may be at a higher risk for death.
TBR says2015-08-12T02:10:39.0896495Z
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-violent-crime-1970s-level-20141110-story.html FBI: Violent crime drops, reaches 1970s level
TBR says2015-08-12T02:11:24.6731417Z
"To be precise, the F.B.I.'s count of violent crimes reported to law enforcement has declined from a rate of 747 violent incidents per 100,000 people in 1993 to 387 incidents per 100,000 people in 2012, "
TBR says2015-08-12T02:12:43.6720481Z
Hell, look at your own link and really read it. Violent crime is down year-over-year.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-12T02:13:06.5729949Z
@TBR -- Everything I got from your argument was that crime is the problem, don't interact with criminals and you won't be a victim...Essentially. Now do you really think criminals sit around targeting other criminals and their acquaintances? The root problem to me, even from your arguments is CRIME and CRIMINALS. So, the real argument you should be having is how do we stop people from committing criminal acts. Once the crime decreases, people would feel more safe and be less likely to turn toward a firearm for protection whether it's false feelings of security or true security. So again, you should be attacking ways of changing the criminal culture, not law abiding citizen culture.
TBR says2015-08-12T02:15:27.4120201Z
Now, since you started the second part of our discussion with "gun clenching, bible thumping,". While as I said, I dislike the spin, this is not too far off. We, as a culture, are connecting guns with religion MORE than every. It is a disturbing trend. God and guns is not a good juxtaposition regardless your feelings on religion.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-12T02:16:59.1548858Z
@TBR -- 1960: Population = 180 million, violent crime = 288,500 1970: Population = 203 million, violent crime = 738,000 2013: Population = 316 million, violent crime = 1.2 million Looks like an increase to me...Don't know what number line you are using.
TBR says2015-08-12T02:20:31.8167714Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont "Everything I got from your argument was that crime is the problem, don't interact with criminals and you won't be a victim...Essentially. Now do you really think criminals sit around targeting other criminals and their acquaintances? " - Home invasion robbery (while there are better alternatives than a gun) are where you want to go. Property crimes are not usually violent. They are RARELY violent. So, unless you are messing with criminals, your chances of being involved in a violent confrontation are lower than the perception - yes. || "The root problem to me, even from your arguments is CRIME and CRIMINALS. So, the real argument you should be having is how do we stop people from committing criminal acts." - One does not have to follow the other. I feel there is a significant enough negative impact from LAW ABIDING citizens having guns to want to work to reduce these numbers. || "Once the crime decreases, people would feel more safe and be less likely to turn toward a firearm for protection whether it's false feelings of security or true security. So again, you should be attacking ways of changing the criminal culture, not law abiding citizen culture." - Again, all I will say to this is, you don't have to do one without the other. If guns cause a problem in society, I don't need to wait until crime is at whatever level you think it should be before I address the issue of guns.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-12T02:21:01.2216375Z
@TBR -- guns being connected to religion...What? LOL what the heck are you talking about? Nowhere in the bible does it say "And the lord came to Able and said 'Pick up thy AK-47 and lay waste to thy neighbor with 31 rounds of hot lead. Quickly thy shall claim self-defense in lie..."
TBR says2015-08-12T02:22:55.6327709Z
This. This is what I am talking about http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/A_496c4f_996122.jpg This is gun culture mixed with religion.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-12T02:24:25.0837443Z
@TBR -- And what is the SYMBOLOGY behind this art project?
TBR says2015-08-12T02:25:26.5481383Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont - You tell me? I found plenty. All US images by the way.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-12T02:27:06.3887783Z
@TBR -- EXACTLY!!! You have NO idea who the artist was or what he was saying through his piece. For all we know it was a little gang banger in high school art class thinking it would be funny or give him street cred. So stop basing your arguments off of your ignorance of the subject matter at hand.
TBR says2015-08-12T02:28:54.9043963Z
I doubt you will read this, but give it a shot http://www.patheos.com/blogs/formerlyfundie/when-we-worship-the-god-of-fear-the-idolatry-of-gun-culture/
TBR says2015-08-12T02:30:44.7135002Z
And not every one of millions of bible with a gun photos returned in my google search were the art projects of a gang banger.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-12T02:33:10.9007149Z
@TBR -- The fact of the matter is, crime and the criminal culture is to blame and Liberals are too scared of running off their voting base to do what needs to be done. You need to treat them as they are; terrorists to the society. You increase police presence, increase arrests, increases convictions, clean up the neighborhoods enough for the community members to come out and clean up, get the parks cleaned up and safe for the kids, create an environment enticing for businesses to move it which creates job growth, job growth increases income and pulls the community out of poverty. Once out of poverty you work on increasing educational standards due to the influx of demands...Honest demands for better education from a population worrying more about their futures than about how cool they look or what gang to join or how much cash they are going to make from dealing drugs tonight. Then the growth continues from there. Then the criminals begin being released from prison, come back to find their homes gone, sold off, demolished, occupied by another more friendly family, they have no business, no safe places to hide, no more gang to affiliate with, so they move on. There is your solution.
TBR says2015-08-12T02:38:11.4522415Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont "The fact of the matter is, crime and the criminal culture is to blame and Liberals are too scared of running off their voting base to do what needs to be done. " - Baseless and argumentative. || "You need to treat them as they are; terrorists to the society." - I have no issue with calling gangs terrorists. || "You increase police presence, increase arrests, increases convictions, clean up the neighborhoods enough for the community members to come out and clean up, get the parks cleaned up and safe for the kids," - Again, crime is down across the board. Its a perception issue for most || "create an environment enticing for businesses to move it which creates job growth, job growth increases income and pulls the community out of poverty. Once out of poverty you work on increasing educational standards due to the influx of demands...Honest demands for better education from a population worrying more about their futures than about how cool they look or what gang to join or how much cash they are going to make from dealing drugs tonight. Then the growth continues from there. Then the criminals begin being released from prison, come back to find their homes gone, sold off, demolished, occupied by another more friendly family, they have no business, no safe places to hide, no more gang to affiliate with, so they move on. There is your solution." - Very little problem with the last part of your post. I could pick bits out, but generally, no issue with it.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-12T02:39:10.6858212Z
@TBR -- 1) That is a blog 2) It's an opinion piece; this is seen when he says "I believe" 4 times in the piece 3) worship of fear? Really? Come on man, nobody bends to knee and worships fear. Now you're grasping friend.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-12T02:45:37.2718993Z
@TBR -- Under liberals crime does flourish...Look at NYC's broken window initiative, stop and frisk, etc. Now look what has happened since liberals have taken back over. Now look at Baltimore, MD, Ferguson, MD, Detroit, MI, etc...It's a pattern.
TBR says2015-08-12T03:16:02.2353201Z
I thank you for actually reading it. I could, and will if you need, citing examples where religion has become mixed with religion. Can we agree that it has, or do we need to beat a horse that is already dead? Gun culture deserves no place with religion, and it has become, for some, intertwined.
TBR says2015-08-12T03:17:50.9354945Z
We can argue 'liberal policy' all you like, but this is still another tangent from the subject matter.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-12T03:40:15.6797146Z
@TBR -- Guns and Religion is a dead horse beat over and over again for Democrats to stereotype all Republicans; just like throwing grandma off a cliff and Republicans are racists, republicans don't care about women, etc., etc. It's just not true. The subject matter is exactly as I stated. I have given the root of the perceived problem as well as a solution; said solution goes against everything Liberals stand for. Just because you are getting a lesson on politics and learning what your party is really about does not mean it's a tangent off topic. It's all connected my friend.
TBR says2015-08-12T04:06:36.6250488Z
Its like turrets for you. Ok, give me this political lessen. Bring it on.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-12T04:07:32.5982076Z
@TBR -- You already got it, but you're too blinded by partisanship to see it.
TBR says2015-08-12T15:40:52.7581623Z
Just say it. You want to talk about thugs and LIEberals. It would seem its all you know how to do.
TBR says2015-08-12T15:47:25.2254781Z
This is about when the top of the company makes 350x more than the worker. Loos across time, when we were most solid the numbers were much more inline.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-12T16:35:48.8175560Z
@TBR -- So now your argument is "Stupid risk taker, You make me so mad that you risked your money, house, cars, family, marriage, and more to make your business! I'm so angry that now you take home the spoils of your own victory! ARG!"
Haroush says2015-08-12T21:53:34.8073731Z
Liberals have to have someone to blame, but themselves.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-12T22:48:14.2759952Z
It amazes me how utterly blind to common sense liberals are these days. It's truly getting to the level where it's becoming nauseating.
Haroush says2015-08-12T22:50:59.5434546Z
https://www.google.com/search?q=pepto+bismol&espv=2&biw=1222&bih=817&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAWoVChMIiIzu1dCkxwIVhjw-Ch2E9wGe&dpr=0.9#tbm=isch&q=pepto+bismol+ad&imgrc=_4jvPNz-GoLXyM%3A
TBR says2015-08-13T01:35:11.2137543Z
@MakeSensePeopleDont - They are not risk takers. I seriously don't think you have met anyone in the VC world.
TBR says2015-08-13T01:36:51.7868815Z
What to know risk takers? Guys that go years without a normal paycheck? Talk to entrepreneurs like ME
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-13T02:49:03.2645647Z
VC World = Viet Cong World? I don't want to know them. LOL JK. Venture Capitalism yes I do, I also know fortune 300 company owners including ones who started the business from the ground up. What's your point though? Does it matter who I know or not for me to understand the risks that business owners take starting their businesses?
TBR says2015-08-13T03:05:34.5254014Z
We are talking about income inequality. People who risk, like me, are not what is at issue here. Anyone that is risking cars, homes, they are NOT a part of this issue. A VC is not risking, he is investing. A guy with 1b is not worried about loosing his car. You are either being obtuse, or don't understand the issue.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-13T03:17:21.0383303Z
@TBR -- If you want to debate how much risk persons from different economic statuses risk in starting a business then start a poll for it. However, this poll is about how to stop gun violence in America...You're WAY off track there buddy.
tajshar2k says2015-08-14T18:32:33.5762900Z
I'm quite glad many Pro gun activists, support background checks and funding health mental institutions. Shows they actually care.
MakeSensePeopleDont says2015-08-14T20:29:43.4598994Z
Any person with the mental capacity to tie their own shoes and has no concern over mental health and background checks supports that.
Debating_Horse says2018-07-11T16:44:15.2586901Z
Watch the teenagers browsing history, and monitor their mental health, and overall behavior.
ModerateAmerican says2019-05-04T00:36:53.7313252Z
I would say 1, 2, 6, 7 and 9.

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