Where are libertarians on the political spectrum?

Posted by: triangle.128k

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PetersSmith says2015-04-09T10:46:47.2144290-05:00
Depends which political spectrum you're looking at. I usually go by the European one, which is where libertarians are at the top.
PetersSmith says2015-04-09T10:48:57.5551719-05:00
The spectrums also usually label it so...
triangle.128k says2015-04-09T10:50:29.4477552-05:00
I never really found political spectrums to be that accurate. I see them as a dumbed-down overly simplified way to map out ideologies.
triangle.128k says2015-04-09T10:50:41.8665166-05:00
And aren't anarchists all the way at the top?
PetersSmith says2015-04-09T10:51:21.5269880-05:00
Triangle.128k: Yes, if you go by the spectrum I mentioned, Anarchists are at the extreme-top and far-left.
PetersSmith says2015-04-09T10:51:47.9142462-05:00
Triangle.128k: On the other side, Nazis are at the extreme-bottom and far-right.
triangle.128k says2015-04-09T10:52:43.7496238-05:00
The idea of National Socialists/Nazis being far-right is flawed. It's not an accurate way to describe them.
PetersSmith says2015-04-09T10:55:16.1645139-05:00
Triangle.128k: That's too bad because they are placed there, even if you think it's accurate or not.
triangle.128k says2015-04-09T10:58:59.5267458-05:00
Anyhows, I'm referring to a political spectrum where the Y axis is the amount of freedom and the X axis is left or right wing.
triangle.128k says2015-04-09T10:59:09.0093782-05:00
If that simplifies it,
PetersSmith says2015-04-09T11:00:51.6278681-05:00
Triangle.128k: That's not really fair because libertarians can be both conservative and liberal.
triangle.128k says2015-04-09T11:04:13.4255393-05:00
Wouldn't that be centric/moderate though?
PetersSmith says2015-04-09T11:04:54.3964527-05:00
Triangle.128k: No, because centrists take policies from both sides and aren't necessarily libertarian or authoritarian. In fact, they could take radical policies from both sides.
PetersSmith says2015-04-09T11:05:40.9226265-05:00
Triangle.128k: If someone's an anarchist, then obviously they take no policies from the conservative side.
triangle.128k says2015-04-09T11:09:57.2724966-05:00
Someone could take extreme policies from both sides, but the right policies may slightly outweigh the left ones. In that case, they can be considered center-right.
PetersSmith says2015-04-09T11:10:57.8305320-05:00
Triangle.128k: On the ideological scale of left and right, yes. But that doesn't take authoritarianism and libertarianism into account.
triangle.128k says2015-04-09T11:13:04.5715698-05:00
That's where the Y axis would come in place like I said earlier. All the way on top could be anarchism and all the way at the bottom could be totalitarianism.
PetersSmith says2015-04-09T11:15:22.5779943-05:00
Triangle.128k: You just proved my point. The normal left-right political spectrum does not take into account libertarianism and authoritarianism into account. Thus the options for this poll are flawed since libertarianism can apply to all of them.
triangle.128k says2015-04-09T11:16:59.4159783-05:00
I'm not taking the freedom/authority scale in place. I'm just taking the right-left wing scale into place.
triangle.128k says2015-04-09T11:17:35.8138693-05:00
Everyone agrees libertarians are a little higher up on the freedom/authority scale. I'm just confused on the right-left wing scale.
Dhruva says2015-04-09T11:18:36.4929114-05:00
Libertarians believe in a lack of government intervention and choice.
PetersSmith says2015-04-09T11:18:39.4256550-05:00
Triangle.128k: I get that, but that means all these options are invalid. You practically just said you're not taking libertarianism or authoritarianism into account, which means you just nulled the poll question. Libertarians can be everything on this scale here, thus the poll is invalid.
triangle.128k says2015-04-09T11:19:57.1996017-05:00
You don't get it, I'm simply flattening the political spectrum. I'm asking people if the policies of libertarianism in general weights more left or right.
triangle.128k says2015-04-09T11:20:18.1686739-05:00
PetersSmith says2015-04-09T11:21:18.4394060-05:00
Triangle.128k: You can't flatten the political spectrum when it comes to libertarianism and authoritarianism.
triangle.128k says2015-04-09T11:24:16.6931203-05:00
Do you even get it? I'm NOT asking how libertarian or how authoritarian libertarians in general are. I'm asking if the policies of the libertarian ideology is more left or right wing.
PetersSmith says2015-04-09T11:25:44.5797377-05:00
Triangle.128k: They can be both, do you even get it?
triangle.128k says2015-04-09T11:26:40.8167973-05:00
Maybe, but I'm asking if you take all policies into account, does the left-wing policies outweigh the right wing policies or vice versa?
PetersSmith says2015-04-09T11:27:40.0220418-05:00
Triangle.128k: You just said you weren't asking about generalizations...
triangle.128k says2015-04-09T11:28:05.5318596-05:00
When did I say that?
PetersSmith says2015-04-09T11:29:15.5227033-05:00
Triangle.128k: "I'm NOT asking how libertarian or how authoritarian libertarians in general are."
triangle.128k says2015-04-09T11:30:46.7946292-05:00
I mean i'm dis-including the Y axis of the political spectrum and i'm asking about the X axis.
triangle.128k says2015-04-09T11:31:33.6231663-05:00
The Y axis is the freedom/authority scale and the X axis is the right/left wing scale.
triangle.128k says2015-04-09T11:31:52.1249238-05:00
I'm asking where libertarians are ON the X axis.
PetersSmith says2015-04-09T11:31:57.9293099-05:00
Triangle.128k: And I said if you're not including the Y-axis then you can't include libertarianism. You can be a libertarian centrist, leftist, and rightist. It doesn't matter where you are on the left or right political spectrum.
triangle.128k says2015-04-09T11:33:56.7348141-05:00
I'm asking WHERE the majority of libertarians are on the scale.
triangle.128k says2015-04-09T11:34:11.8353237-05:00
Are you trying to be difficult?
PetersSmith says2015-04-09T11:34:49.2278046-05:00
Triangle.128k: The majority can be both left and right, although I definitely don't think there's many centrist libertarians because that contradicts what a centrist is.
triangle.128k says2015-04-09T11:37:31.9066162-05:00
PetersSmith says2015-04-09T11:39:25.4840589-05:00
Triangle.128k: It's not healthy to hurt yourself.
triangle.128k says2015-04-09T11:39:33.6909220-05:00
Imagine there are left and right wing policies of libertarianism. Each policy has it's weight in kilograms. If you took a balance beam and put all the policies together of an average libertarian, would the balance beam lean more left, right or in the middle?
PetersSmith says2015-04-09T11:42:02.8526655-05:00
Triangle.128k: It would break on both sides evenly.
triangle.128k says2015-04-09T11:42:39.6055587-05:00
That means on the spectrum, they would be centric if you imagine the balance beam would be even.
triangle.128k says2015-04-09T11:42:49.5364008-05:00
How hard was that to understand?
PetersSmith says2015-04-09T11:43:28.4636487-05:00
Triangle.128k: No it wouldn't, because that's implying most libertarians are centrists and that's not true.
triangle.128k says2015-04-09T11:45:30.3349579-05:00
Okay, you're just being difficult.
PetersSmith says2015-04-09T11:46:02.9788476-05:00
Triangle.128k: No I'm not, I'm being serious.
triangle.128k says2015-04-09T11:49:39.4402848-05:00
They would be centric in the sense of left/right wing government. However, they would not be centric in the sense of authority/liberty.
PetersSmith says2015-04-09T11:50:11.3728707-05:00
Triangle.128k: Which contradicts the question, because that means they aren't libertarian.
triangle.128k says2015-04-09T11:52:09.1038066-05:00
What word do you expect me to use if you're in between of a left/right wing government?
PetersSmith says2015-04-09T11:53:53.7038944-05:00
Triangle.128k: A centrist, but everything you've been saying doesn't take libertarianism into account. Meaning "centrist" here wouldn't be libertarian or authoritarian.
triangle.128k says2015-04-09T11:56:31.9713680-05:00
Jesus Christ, I said I'm only taking the X axis into consideration here, not the Y axis!!
PetersSmith says2015-04-09T11:58:26.3825511-05:00
Triangle.128k: Then that means you're not taking libertarianism into account, since libertarianism is on the Y-axis.
triangle.128k says2015-04-09T12:04:59.0270001-05:00
I'm asking whether libertarians IN GENERAL are more left-wing or more right-wing.
triangle.128k says2015-04-09T12:05:36.3916217-05:00
There's debate over it, I hear some people saying they're right wing. I hear others saying other things.
PetersSmith says2015-04-09T12:06:12.9475936-05:00
Triangle.128k: No
triangle.128k says2015-04-09T12:13:02.2551150-05:00
PetersSmith says2015-04-09T12:14:16.6140987-05:00
Triangle.128k: I said no.
triangle.128k says2015-04-09T12:17:11.4173154-05:00
No to what?
PetersSmith says2015-04-09T12:18:07.8102309-05:00
Triangle.128k: No to this poll.
Heraclitus says2015-04-09T13:15:01.8669747-05:00
To answer your question triangle128- Libertarians are in the top right quadrant of the spectrum. This is because the y axis is social freedom and the x axis is economic freedom. At the top there is complete social (or cultural) freedom and at the bottom there is total authority on personal matters. The economic left-right axis (the x axis) shows right wing at one end in complete economic freedom (the free market and Laissez-Faire Capitalism) and at the other end a totally planned and state controlled economy (Socialism and Communism). I am a Libertarian myself so take it from me.
Heraclitus says2015-04-09T13:17:30.7375408-05:00
Also National Socialism is in the bottom left, iron fist capitalism in the bottom right, syndicalism in the top left and true Anarchism (Anarcho-Capitalism in the top right (being an extreme of Libertarianism.
triangle.128k says2015-04-09T13:29:36.6856136-05:00
@Heraclitus I'm talking about right wing and left wing. I guess I really should have specified more in the description.
Heraclitus says2015-04-09T13:34:01.2538994-05:00
I know. I meant right wing a no left wing and I am telling you that Libertarians are right wing
triangle.128k says2015-04-09T13:43:39.5942395-05:00
Left wing is social/political freedom and right wing is economic freedom. Libertarians support both, and sorry my poll was confusing. I'll make a new one later.
triangle.128k says2015-04-09T13:45:50.0570319-05:00
Wylted says2015-04-10T07:45:02.6304252-05:00
There is actually a square I found useful and accurate. You could draw it out if you want but it says. Republican- pro economic freedom anti social freedom Democrat- anti economic freedom pro social freedom Fascist- anti economic and social freedom Libertarian- pro economic and social freedom. It's important to also look at how different sides handle issues as well. For example a pro gay marriage democrat will mandate that businesses offer services to that group, where as a pro gay marriage republican respect all people's freedom and will just serve gays without mandating others do it. Another example, both democrats and republicans can think smoking is bad for non smokers. The republican will avoid establishments that permit smoking while the Democrat will mandate that all businesses be banned from allowing it. Republicans don't force their beliefs on others, where as Democrats love to.
Heraclitus says2015-04-10T11:29:42.9167287-05:00
No, Left wing is not social/political freedom. That is a lie. Left wing is economic state control and right wing is economic freedom. It is a purely economic scale. For the socio-political freedom the taxis come in. You can be Right wing and support socio-political freedom like Libertarians and Amarcho-Capitalists and you can be left wing and not supports socio-political freedom such as Stalin, Mao and National Socialism. It just happens that because right wingers support economic inequality (which is inevitable with freedom), they also support tradition and cultural inequality. I am Libertarian and I consider myself right wing. If you want more information go on my recent debate.

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