Which do you believe the real debate between Creation and Evolution is?

Posted by: 4God

  • Science vs Religion

  • Humanism vs Christianity

50% 8 votes
50% 8 votes
  • Just between these two.

    Posted by: reece
  • I don't really care if someone is religious, it's when they turn down science or hold scientific progress back due to their faith in something that they can't prove is real, is when I step up.

  • Well I see it as all forms of science versus all forms of religion when it comes to the way things work. Though I don't like the "vs" part too much... Science has facts. Religion does not. Simple victory. It's not "science vs religion" per say, but rather, "religion trying to debunk science". Which is ironic to say the least.

  • Science and Religion have rarely (if not ever) been in conflict. When you say "science vs religion" you are not only incorporating Christianity or the Abrahamic faiths into the argument, but also countless theologies far and wide. Boiling the debate into "science vs religion" is not only oversimplified, but blatantly inaccurate.

  • Creationists are accused of ignoring scientific evidence and being anti-science, but belief in God in no way lessons wanting to know how life works. The only “science” that creationists do not use is the speculative science of evolution that has nothing to do with useful operational science. Evolutionary ideas like "apes-to-man charts” that supposedly chart human evolution are based on pure speculation and not useful to science and technology in any way. Sir Arthur Keith summarizes the evolution doctrine as: “Evolution is unproven and unprovable. We believe it, however, because the only alternative is an act of creation by a God, and that is unthinkable.”

    Posted by: 4God
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reece says2015-05-26T17:31:32.4697483-05:00
Knowledge/critical thought vs ignorance/arrogance
UtherPenguin says2015-05-26T17:37:00.1440094-05:00
@reece I'm not sure how Creationism is related to arrogance? Could you please elaborate?
Varrack says2015-05-26T17:42:37.0437938-05:00
Not the former, because there are theistic evolutionists.
reece says2015-05-26T17:43:19.2649302-05:00
@UtherPenguin Firstly Learn what nature is telling you instead of imposing your beliefs on nature. Creationism isn't falsifiable just like the dragon in my garage. You lack knowledge to critically think if you believe in any form of Creationism.
UtherPenguin says2015-05-26T18:07:32.2797554-05:00
@reece Want to debate on that?
reece says2015-05-26T18:13:09.2199972-05:00
@UtherPenguin For your vote... The reason why Science and Religion haven't been in conflict is because Religion hase been dominant. You know... Imprisoning, torturing, executing people that went against the word of god(s). Why stop there? Christianity for example tried to erase civilizations from history, e.g. the Spanish inquisition destroying most Maya artifacts. What about the library of Alexandria in Rome being burnt down by religious zealots.
reece says2015-05-26T18:13:37.7411566-05:00
@UtherPenguin I don't do formal debates.
reece says2015-05-26T18:13:54.8079942-05:00
UtherPenguin says2015-05-26T18:19:50.9547008-05:00
@reece The library of Alexandria was in Alexandria, not in Rome. Not all religions persecute apostates or the irreligious, and those that do often reside from a more extreme sect of the religion. The only examples you brought were pertaining to Christianity, and those examples only applied to the Catholic sect of Christianity, that but you were arguing against religion in general. However, not all religions or religious societies enacted policies like the Spanish inquisition. For example, the discoverer of the Big Bang was a Catholic priest, the inventor of Algebra was a Muslim who studied in a Muslim theocracy, and so on so forth.
reece says2015-05-26T18:44:30.6318654-05:00
@UtherPenguin Sorry, i partly confused it with a Roman library. Exactly, the further back you go, the more fundamental religious people get. I was only using Christianity as an example like i said And again like I've said Religion has been dominant. The more secular parts of history has been when civilizations thrived like the Islamic golden age. That Muslim who invented Algebra lived in that golden age. Forgot his name. Yes, a lot of religious people discovered and invented stuff, so what? Galileo was religious and he still got locked up. You don't need to believe in god(s) to discover the secrets of the universe.
reece says2015-05-26T18:47:10.1509443-05:00
It's a problem when that religion becomes the thought police.
UtherPenguin says2015-05-26T18:54:58.5791662-05:00
@reece I believe his name was Al-Khwarizmi (Correct me if I'm wrong)
reece says2015-05-26T19:00:46.2652810-05:00
@UtherPenguin yeah, that's him. So in conclusion, the more secular civilizations are, the more they thrive.
triangle.128k says2015-05-26T19:53:26.5475118-05:00
The real debate is between ignorance and using your brain.
Stefy says2015-05-26T22:43:19.7240686-05:00
Not acience v religion, science v idiocy. Im religious and i certainly believe in evolution.
reece says2015-05-26T22:52:48.7994503-05:00
@Stefy Do you credit god for scientific discoveries? For example, medical ones?
58539672 says2015-05-26T22:56:00.4463738-05:00
@reece Not necessarily. Whether a nation thrives or not depends on a laundry list of things. Geography, natural resources, economic policy, food production, infrastructure, etc. Whether they are secular or not has very little effect on the matter. Secular nations can be complete poverty stricken dumps and religious ones can be prosperous. The UK is technically a religious state because the state religion is the Church of England, the head of state is also the head of the church, and several clerics hold office in the House of Lords.
reece says2015-05-26T23:16:22.8951324-05:00
@58539672 You kinda mist my point. Being religious or secular has everything to do with them. Developed countries tend to be more secular compared to developing and undeveloped countries due to the lack of opportunity of proper, honest education. Prosperity Has a lot to do with building your mental capacity. Humanity is more secular than it was 500-600+ years ago. The reach of social media has a lot to do with the trend too. The more facts you have, the less faith you need.
reece says2015-05-26T23:31:32.1786322-05:00
Region or lack there of doesn't determine the state of the country. It's the other way around.
reece says2015-05-26T23:33:18.0553739-05:00
Deathbydefault says2015-05-26T23:57:05.1051370-05:00
There is no real versus between them. The only reason religion is still a thing is because they catch people who are weak minded, children and the depressed for example, and 'give them a reason to live'. After they've successfully captured their newest Pokemon they send them out to battle a much stronger opponent that they know they'll probably never beat. But the pawns don't know that... So they just keep throwing themselves at science over and over again. Denying facts. Calling us liars. Claiming to be correct without evidence. All in an attempt to prove their world view as correct. But it never will be correct. Until your god decides to get up for an evening stroll through town and show off his omnipotence, your view will never be correct. It will never be a fact. Well, I guess I lied. It will never be a fact in the living world. None of us knows what comes after death.
58539672 says2015-05-27T12:15:47.9707650-05:00
@reece Again, not necessarily. Of the 192 recognized nations, about 40 are considered religious states. These include the Middle eastern, Northwest African, Pacific Island, Former British Empire, and European nations. Some of the developed ones include the UK, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, and all the commonwealth. Some of the secular developing and undeveloped nations include, 90% of Africa, the former members of the soviet block, nearly all central and south America, and much of Southeast Asia. Religion has little to do with a nations development state. They are more affected by the factors I listed in my previous post.
reece says2015-05-27T15:03:36.0416325-05:00
@58539672 And those factors dictate whether there religious or not. You kinda just proved my point by saying out all regions. I think you still don't understand.
reece says2015-05-27T15:09:12.5562805-05:00
Some of the European developed countries may consider themselves religious but a great majority of people there actually consider themselves none religious.
reece says2015-05-27T15:15:36.3589017-05:00
It's doesn't matter if a country declares itself religious. It's like saying a pastor is religious even though he/she might be an atheist/agnostic
reece says2015-05-27T15:15:47.4975873-05:00
58539672 says2015-05-27T21:59:03.7790695-05:00
@reece You said, "So in conclusion, the more secular civilizations are, the more they thrive." I replied by saying that whether they are secular or not has little to do with that nations prosperity level and more to do with things like geography and resources. You then said, "Developed countries tend to be more secular compared to developing and undeveloped countries due to the lack of opportunity of proper, honest education." I replied with known religious developed nations and a list of all the secular developing and undeveloped, which outnumber the religious ones by a large margin. You say that I missed your point, but your words are saying that secular nations are more prosperous and more developed than religious ones, which is simply not the case. Im beginning to wonder if you even know the point you are trying to convey.
reece says2015-05-27T22:26:04.0258513-05:00
@58539672 Do you agree that more prosperous countries tend to be less fundamental in their religious beliefs or not?
58539672 says2015-05-27T22:27:38.7982813-05:00
@reece No, I do not agree.
Mister_Man says2015-05-27T22:28:09.8547555-05:00
Seems like poorer countries are prominently religious. Not sure what's up with Murrica, but hey that's soon to be a 3rd world country ;)
Mister_Man says2015-05-27T22:28:29.1425741-05:00
Reece, I agree.
reece says2015-05-27T22:32:20.1276738-05:00
@Mister_Man probably due to their education system.
Mister_Man says2015-05-27T22:42:41.2192530-05:00
Varrack says2015-05-27T22:45:59.1100937-05:00
Our education system is great yo
Mister_Man says2015-05-27T22:48:41.7571177-05:00
I can't say much, as I don't live in America, but usually countries with a bigger population mean bigger classroom sizes, meaning less one-on-one time with certain students. Classes where I live are about 25 kids in elementary and high schools, which is pretty good for the teachers to be able to pay attention to many kids, especially ones who are struggling. Once the class size gets over 30 is when it gets kind of tricky to ensure every student is doing well.

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