Who would you rather have on the $20 bill, a slave owner or an abolitionist?

Posted by: BblackkBbirdd

http://uk.businessinsider.com/new-steve-inskeep-book-reveals-andrew-jacksons-flaws-2015-5

Vote
20 Total Votes
1

The Slave owner

10 votes
5 comments
2

The Abolitionist

10 votes
1 comment
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BblackkBbirdd says2015-06-02T12:09:51.6199319-05:00
@Preston- Ever heard of the Trail of Tears? He forcibly relocated native American tribes like the Cherokee, Choctaw, Chickasaw, Muscogee, Seminole, from lands they had been promised in previous treaties and which they had inhabited for centuries, so that settlers could use the land as Cotton plantations. About 1/4 of cherokees died on route to designated 'Indian territory'.
Preston says2015-06-02T12:11:58.9589046-05:00
@BblackkBbirdd Im not claiming that it was ok, but at that time, with their standards some people were sub-human. They had slaves and didnt care for the natives, because that was the way of the times. Just like in the 1800's Executive order 44 was passed to exterminate mormons.
Wylted says2015-06-02T12:12:16.8112557-05:00
Andrew Jackson is a hero. He made mistakes, but he did incredible things. Such as his suicide mission to stand up to central banking and other forms of tyranny
BblackkBbirdd says2015-06-02T12:25:36.6059808-05:00
You know who else was a hero? Harriet Tubman, who at great personal risk helped more than 300 slaves reach freedom between 1850 and 1858. And it's funny that you said Jackson stood against Tyranny when is government was so cruel and oppressive to Native Americans and went against supreme court rulings to relocate them.
BblackkBbirdd says2015-06-02T12:26:38.7846240-05:00
Regardless of whether his actions were acceptable at the time, that doesn't mean that his memory should be honoured by being on currency especially when today his actions are seen as aberrant.
Preston says2015-06-02T12:42:08.0948103-05:00
Should we then disgrace washington, Lincoln, and monroe they all attributed to terrible things.
Forthelulz says2015-06-02T12:47:03.9339987-05:00
You know who wasn't a President? Someone who helped move stolen goods.
Preston says2015-06-02T12:47:41.8941141-05:00
Hahahaha
Wylted says2015-06-02T12:55:31.9642285-05:00
Yeah Tubman was a hero. I think pulling somebody's face from the bill is an insult though. Just create a $15 bill and give it to her
BblackkBbirdd says2015-06-02T13:20:33.5848305-05:00
Or, you people could put her face on a rarely circulated $20 coin!
Preston says2015-06-02T13:21:22.7482720-05:00
That would be a kewl coin!
Preston says2015-06-02T13:21:36.1732341-05:00
Or yea do a $25 bill
BblackkBbirdd says2015-06-02T13:28:51.4216041-05:00
Or you could put her on a penny bill/note, so people can make it look like they're being generous to homeless people.
Preston says2015-06-02T13:32:03.3619114-05:00
Yea lincoln has a bill why does he get a penny too
Reeseroni says2015-06-02T13:33:37.0942977-05:00
I think he looks good on the bill, I don't care about what he did.
Forthelulz says2015-06-02T13:33:47.6713011-05:00
Or we could simply forget about her and her inconsequential actions, which, when taken on the grand scheme of things, were largely symbolic instead of functional.
Preston says2015-06-02T13:34:41.7887418-05:00
Hahaha, he stays on the bill cause hes stylin
BblackkBbirdd says2015-06-02T16:02:22.7466221-05:00
There are more 'stylin' people than Andrew Jackson....Like me
Preston says2015-06-02T16:05:44.0030118-05:00
Yea DDO community on the bills
Inquisit0r says2015-06-02T16:34:56.5183437-05:00
Dat universal white male suffrage tho.
Forthelulz says2015-06-02T16:36:15.9635813-05:00
@Inquisit0r Well, when you're the group in power at the time...
Stefy says2015-06-02T20:33:40.1996554-05:00
For all the people saying andrew jackson because a lot of people owned slaves back then, Andrew Jackson also headed a genocide, forced relocation, and the persecution of an entire ethnic group. Harriet Tubman freed people who were enslaved.
58539672 says2015-06-02T21:18:38.5376742-05:00
@Stefy Jackson was also a war hero, the founder of the modern Democratic party, and the harbinger of the Jacksonian Era. He was described as the poor mans president who solved many corruption and embezzlement problems within the federal government and banking systems, signed treaties with nearly all European powers (reopening trade with the British Empire being the most important), and was the first President to expand upon the powers of the executive given to him be the constitution. For that last one, he is often described as the first "modern" president. His list of achievements are long enough to earn his place on our currency. Harriet Tubman only accomplishments were her transporting of runaway slaves to the northern states. Though important and notable, it didn't really effect the country as a whole.
Gustav_Adolf_II says2015-06-03T13:07:35.9935102-05:00
Personally, I'd like to see Woodrow Wilson on the 20...
Stefy says2015-06-03T17:59:48.5587827-05:00
58539672: What do you mean didnt effect the country as a whole? She was a moajor leader of a liberation group for a portion of the population treated as property. Jackson gad a lot of accomplishments but so do a lot of presidents and some of his were yes very signifigant. Dont want harriet tubman? Ok fine though i disagree. Just not jackson. Jackson had a hand in decimating the people who had originally lives here before we invaded. He deported them from their own homes on a walk that killed a ton of them and put them through horrible things having a signifigant role in the decades long destruction and near elimination of the entirety of the Native American race and cultures.
58539672 says2015-06-03T23:16:35.9678584-05:00
@Stefy All the individuals on our currency contributed greatly to the development of the nation in some way (they also have to be dead. Kind of an unspoken rule). If you do not want Jackson on the $20 bill due to his treatment of the Native Americans, thats perfectly fine. Their are several people in our history who easily fit the criteria that can replace him. James Madison, Frederick Douglass, John Adams, Woodrow Wilson, the Wright brothers, or maybe Theodor Roosevelt. Hell, even Nixon and Reagan fit the category. Harriet Tubman however is not one of them. All she did was help runaway slaves. Though a noble and righteous accomplishment, it was limited to a small area and directly effected few.
Najs says2015-06-11T15:38:48.8392688-05:00
...Now I'm completely convinced much of humanity is corrupt and pure evil and there will be many who support corruption. Is it really that hard for you to place yourselves in someone else's shoes? I would rather batman or superman to be my heroes than someone who is a liar, a murderer, a thief, and most likely a rapist all in one. Where are the simple morals? Then say his willful actions was a "mistake" and with the times. He was a grown man and definitely knew right from wrong. No, that is defined as nothing but a Loser. I could never lower myself to support someone so corrupt with such low standards. Supporting Jackson is the equivalent of supporting Adolf Hitler (and all other corrupt leaders). To support one and not the other would make a hypocrite.
Forthelulz says2015-06-11T15:40:24.2321711-05:00
@ Najs How many of those actions were perfectly acceptable at the time?
Najs says2015-06-11T15:42:55.4855990-05:00
That is saying ISIS is also just with the times and know not their "mistakes", and that they to are heroes. Jackson was a terrorist.
Forthelulz says2015-06-11T15:57:59.4052625-05:00
But ISIS is not acceptable. They could simply subvert a government instead of committing terrorism. They are wasting time and resources.
Najs says2015-06-11T16:17:01.8308318-05:00
Forthelulz, there are many who support and praise terrorists in the East and still praise Hitler. Also, a few hundred years from now they will still be praised by their fans and many will conclude their corrupt actions as a simple mistake and that it was just a different time in history therefore it does not matter. But, it does matter because corruption harms the lives of others no matter when in history it was done, who the corrupter is, or where it takes place. People will always praise if it benefits them or condemn if it harms them. A terrorist will always be a terrorist, yet still be a hero to many.
Preston says2015-06-11T16:17:11.4094160-05:00
@najs Yea, totally not the same at all, lets play a game, ok ill describe a group, you tell me who they are: They are a group of white men who own slaves, they Riot and burn government buildings, and are known to lynch individuals. They stored arms and then started a war, while instead of fighting head on like is par, they hide and use guerilla warfare. They kill and torture natives in the areas around where they are camped and in truth are no different but have a superiority complex. They are part of a revolutionary plan that if it succeeds will kill more natives, enslave more of their own kind. Who are these individuals?
Forthelulz says2015-06-11T16:18:43.8411935-05:00
All I could make out from that was "Unwashed hippies support people who would kill them if they actually met."
Preston says2015-06-11T16:20:44.1660297-05:00
@najs you are literally saying we should hate our ancestors because in their times they did what was to believed to be right. You are one stuck up individual to curse an entire generation because they don't fit your expectations, I guarantee more than just andrew jackson owned slaves, i guarantee that the folks who passed Executive order 44 were bad, but i don't resent them, and i would not devalue them. Because in retrospect they thought they were doing right.
Preston says2015-06-11T16:22:52.6971791-05:00
Oh and my description fits our founding fathers, of course they are heros, and without their mistakes we would never have grown to correct them, we never would have had the freedom to change, we would have struggled and failed. Guess what, andrew jackson's mistakes are used to teach acceptance, and you would disgrace the fact that he has given us the opportunity to learn.
Najs says2015-06-11T17:59:32.9667206-05:00
Preston, now let's play a real game. On your day off go out and ask those who were negatively affected by the *cough* mistakes and ask was it not acts of terrorism and corruption. I seriously doubt you will, but if you really wish to seek an honest answer beyond your own brain, then this will be a "game" to learn from. No, do not hate your ancestors nor praise and celebrate the memory of corruption. We are suppose to LEARN from them. As I CLEARLY mentioned before, corruption exists throughout the WORLD including the US and it will never be right nor are they mistakes. It is simply deliberate and it is corrupt. No corruption is acceptable. Slavery around the world throughout history is wrong on so many levels, not just in the US. Did you know slavery continues in some parts of the world to this very day which makes them also CORRUPT. Its all wrong and I could never lower myself to make excuses for those who corrupt, ancestor or not. Present day or not. My OWN ancestors done horrific acts that I will never make excuses or praise them for, ever. Unlike you, I do not fear to call my forefathers out. I asked if you had the ability to place yourself in another's shoes to experience the taste of corruption and terrorism from those who were corrupted and terrorized against. I believe some people can, but you can not. I try to place myself in others' shoes who suffer or have suffered everyday. But, I don't stop there, I do what I humanly can to relieve suffering of others from around the WORLD (not just US) or at the very least try to understand what they went through. It isn't much, but its better than making excuses. And if this makes me a "stuck up" person, then you need to reevaluate your beliefs. Is it truly that hard Preston to place yourself in another's shoes?? Really? It does take a big person to do this and it seems many are unable to do so. Perhaps you may learn this someday, perhaps not. Most likely you will not. As I said before, this concludes much of humanity EVERYWHERE is corrupt and evil and it is their choice, no mistake. ISIS is corrupt, US government has always been corrupt, Hitler was corrupt, war lords are all corrupt, most of humanity is corrupt. I said this before and can not make it any clearer for you. I will repeat once again and if you like, you can make an attempt to understand the words I speak. I am calling humanity out as a whole, not just a few people: "Corruption harms the lives of others no matter WHEN in history it was done, WHO the corrupter is, or WHERE it takes place. People will always PRAISE if it benefits them or CONDEMN if it harms them. ALWAYS. A terrorist will always be a terrorist, yet still be a HERO to many." You are unable to realize your words you speak are the same as the fans that support other terrorists. I heard this all before and no one is able to see the contradiction. But, ALL of it is wrong and deliberate. So why idolize them still in memory for generations to come when you can choose to learn? So honestly, humanity will continue to corrupt and terrorize each other. But, when terror and corruption is a threat to them, they will ALWAYS dwell in the sea of denial....They suddenly refuse to relate and that magically some how their situation is different because it happened to them :/ Lol. I will CONCLUDE at this and put it to rest on this post, as I have already said what I had to say about most of humanity using the example of a piece of paper ($20 bill). I made my posts to plant a seed of potential growth in others who are able to listen. Calling out history's repetitive contradictions and corruptions, and we marvel and glorify it in memory. But, as the great Albert Einstein once said: "No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it.” So, I honestly do not expect you to see anything or change. You simply can't.
Preston says2015-06-12T08:08:28.6114565-05:00
@Najs, You literally cannot argue this with me, instead you create fallacious arguments full of ad hominem. You still have not shown why someone, acting in accordance to the laws and regulations that bound them makes them bad. Nothing that they did at their time was viewed as bad and thus they are outside the bounds of judgement. There is even a whole judicial thing about this called, post facto, you cannot be judged by action when circumstances were different. Did the natives deserve this? No. Should we repeat these actions? No. Was he a bad person for acting according to societal standards of the time? No! Its the same thing for concentration camp guards, were they bad? No, honestly if they didn't do what they have done then they would be dead, their families would be dead and honestly no one would be better off. You follow societal standards for the same reason. Should we crucify our grandparents because they didn't support gay marriage? They didn't support social freedoms for all. No. They fit their societal standards, and you still haven't shown how this is something we should disgrace someone for.
Preston says2015-06-12T08:10:54.6306016-05:00
Hitler was corrupt, war lords are all corrupt, most of humanity is corrupt. Leaders may be corrupt, and hitler should never be praised, but here is the thing. Hitlers actions were atrocious when they occurred. Andrew jackson's actions were not atrocious when they occurred. Check and Mate. If you can provide an example of someone who did what was acceptable at the time and should be completely disgraced as we would be doing to andrew jackson by removing his face from the 20 then I will further debate this with you, but hitler, and isis are not even similar.
Preston says2015-06-12T08:14:01.9961342-05:00
. Is it truly that hard Preston to place yourself in another's shoes?? You are not placing yourself in another's shoes, your placing yourself in the victims shoes, when this happens views become biased, look at the Trayvon Martin case, people jumped on the victim bandwagon and it turns out that he attacked zimmerman, had the ingredients to get high, and had a history of assault and robbery. If we haddent then an unbiased trial would have occurred faster, but everyone had to comment, everyone wanted on the badwagon. Instead look at it logically from afar, because honestly its not you, and it is done, so making yourself out to be the victim or trying to relate only harms you, it doesn't benefit them.
Preston says2015-06-12T08:14:49.8920355-05:00
As the great Albert Einstein once said: "No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it.” So, I honestly do not expect you to see anything or change. You simply can't. Same to you, why would i expect you to see logic over emotion.

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