Will atheism decline to irrelevence on a world wide scale?

Posted by: Mobutu

Atheism throughout the world is dying due to the pitifully low birthrates of atheists and the ressurgence of religion in the old communist countries like China and the Soviet union.

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Heterodox says2015-09-02T22:40:19.7952324Z
I think both theism and atheism are declining to irrelevance.
UtherPenguin says2015-09-03T00:24:21.7546640Z
triangle.128k says2015-09-03T00:25:37.5488431Z
Why is Islam rising to quickly?
UtherPenguin says2015-09-03T00:28:22.8146186Z
@triangle.18k Because reasons. (Higher birthrate in Muslim countries and a high convert rate elsewhere)
triangle.128k says2015-09-03T00:29:11.3326135Z
Why do they need to try to convert everyone? Why does anybody actually need to go on and shove their religion down everyone's throat?
PericIes says2015-09-03T00:30:43.9972075Z
I think it's more due to the birthrate than the conversion.
UtherPenguin says2015-09-03T00:30:49.5976434Z
@triangle.128k If the converts are joining willingly then it's not "shoving down people's throats". There's a big difference between preaching and shoving down peoples throats.
UtherPenguin says2015-09-03T00:32:02.4969107Z
@Perciles http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-FOjnWAsi_hw/VLTzSbgZAvI/AAAAAAAAA5A/X21KeHehay8/s1600/growth_bars_conversion.png
triangle.128k says2015-09-03T00:35:05.4119550Z
@UtherPenguin Preachers are like the people who keep bugging you on the phone to switch to their company's service: https://youtu.be/_1KqMnK_os4?t=46s
Midnight1131 says2015-09-03T00:36:45.6075255Z
Yeah, this is another thing. The only thing that keeps religions going is having a lot of children, and then indoctrinating them.
PericIes says2015-09-03T00:36:56.5743958Z
@UtherPenguin Was that supposed to discredit my point? If it was, I don't see how it does.
UtherPenguin says2015-09-03T00:38:19.6449283Z
@Midnight1131 All form of education is indoctrination. If that was the sole reason for religion's survival then the atheist population would be much higher today/
PericIes says2015-09-03T00:38:38.7664458Z
If anything, it supports my point, actually. If Islam is growing faster than Christianity but has a much lower conversion rate, then the lion's share of the growth must be due to the birthrate, as I said.
UtherPenguin says2015-09-03T00:38:44.9326904Z
@Perciles Not really, just showing graphs in response.
PericIes says2015-09-03T00:39:29.8141781Z
Oh, okay. Sorry then. I thought that you were trying to rebut.
UtherPenguin says2015-09-03T00:39:46.1474828Z
@Perciles Actually, the fact that Islam has a much higher conversion rate than any of the other religions aside from Christianity shows that birthrate is not the sole factor.
UtherPenguin says2015-09-03T00:40:05.2108050Z
^^ Oops, now I rebutted.
PericIes says2015-09-03T00:40:17.9560867Z
I didn't say that it was the sole factor, I said that it was the largest factor.
Atheist-Independent says2015-09-03T00:42:31.1341404Z
Why are atheists not keen on "reproducing"?
UtherPenguin says2015-09-03T00:43:37.1693637Z
@Atheist-Independent A good number (but not most or all) of the Atheist population come from Western countries, where the fertility rates are the lowest.
PericIes says2015-09-03T00:45:17.5623161Z
What UtherPenguin said. It's not that they're opposed to it, it's just that atheists tend to have fewer babies.
PericIes says2015-09-03T00:45:58.7159075Z
China is nominally atheist, but they have that one child law, so yeah.
Atheist-Independent says2015-09-03T00:48:53.7356732Z
That does not mean that there population will "decline to irrelevance". Just that there would be proportionally fewer. But again, birth rates don't define atheists numbers, logic does.
Midnight1131 says2015-09-03T00:53:21.7831112Z
Birth rate was never a big factor in atheist numbers anyways. But theism, sadly, will be around for a while. Even though it's outdated. Holy books say the Earth is flat, and for some reason their followers won't question it's accuracy after such a blatantly false statement.
Atheist-Independent says2015-09-03T00:54:47.4120601Z
Fear of death and solitude most likely drives the continual denial of logic. But let's stop complaining before we get into a flame war ;)
UtherPenguin says2015-09-03T00:54:58.3009299Z
@Midnight1131 Birthrate is a huge factor in predicting the future population of demographics, religious or not.
Midnight1131 says2015-09-03T00:56:20.9970600Z
Not quite for atheism though. Even now, people that are religious are religious because they were born into a religious family. Most atheists aren't born in atheist families.
PericIes says2015-09-03T00:56:47.3164791Z
I didn't say "decline to irrelevance." What you're trying to do there is called a straw man argument. It's a logical fallacy wherein you put words into someone's mouth and attack said words in an effort to make your side look better. Also, don't give me that empty pseudo-intellectual rhetoric, with the "birth rates don't define atheist numbers, logic does." No. Just no. Birth rates tend to effect the number of ANY given group of people, because, you know, people are born.
Midnight1131 says2015-09-03T00:57:29.7779009Z
Pretty sure he wasn't responding to you Pericles.
Atheist-Independent says2015-09-03T00:58:04.4413231Z
I was born into an atheist family. But yes, I think a lot of atheists grow out of a family that is not necessarily atheist, but not so fanatic about their beliefs than most others.
Midnight1131 says2015-09-03T00:58:13.7389827Z
Wait he was, my bad.
UtherPenguin says2015-09-03T00:58:24.1598495Z
@Midnight1131 A major generalization. If that was the case, the Atheist population would be much higher. But it isn't, because Atheists are a demographic, just like everyone else.
UtherPenguin says2015-09-03T00:59:08.3393327Z
And demographics need babies, lots of babies.
Midnight1131 says2015-09-03T00:59:21.5214172Z
Why would it be much higher?
Atheist-Independent says2015-09-03T01:00:27.1666380Z
Uther, then you are implying that more people have the boldness to ignore social and religious guidelines to embrace atheism. I think that that is a much smaller portion of the population than you think.
UtherPenguin says2015-09-03T01:00:27.6658412Z
@Midnight1131 Because those born into a religion would have just left it growing up (using your previous logic), since they are heavily exposed to secular culture.
Atheist-Independent says2015-09-03T01:01:36.3530815Z
Pericles I was not actually responding to you.
UtherPenguin says2015-09-03T01:02:01.7344442Z
@Atheist-independent It happens. Not only with atheism, but any belief that a person believes is the truth. Christians used to be a persecuted minority. But those who joined early Christianity did so by choice. Same with Muslims.
TBR says2015-09-03T01:02:31.9518379Z
Why treat this as some horse race? Sure sounds like religion is some sort of trap. "we have more and are making more than you."
UtherPenguin says2015-09-03T01:03:12.8865003Z
@TBR This doesn't only apply with religion, but demographics and general.
Atheist-Independent says2015-09-03T01:03:30.6550142Z
How can there possibly be so many blatantly contradictory "truths". If they are "true" to an individual does not actually make it true.
Varrack says2015-09-03T01:05:27.0941606Z
It's declining in non-Western countries, which is most of the world. I don't know about irrelevance though.
UtherPenguin says2015-09-03T01:06:55.9991305Z
@Atheist-Independent Because it's true to the individual, hence they act upon what they believe to be true.
UtherPenguin says2015-09-03T01:12:35.3949061Z
I doubt the atheist population will overtake any major world religions any time soon according to statistics. But the population most likely won't fade into irrelevance. But Religion is something here to stay.
TBR says2015-09-03T01:21:34.4251614Z
Uter - the conversation just strikes me oddly. Atheists are not competing with the religious. Most just would like you all to keep the silly out of government and science. Stop using religion as a bloody club, damning people whose lifes you have no business intruding in. Generaly, just leave everyone who are not in your 'tribe' alone to it.
Midnight1131 says2015-09-03T01:35:57.5162940Z
@Uther, I never said a large amount of children in religious families turn into atheists. I just said a large amount of atheists come from religious families.
TBR says2015-09-03T01:58:56.2531320Z
Just as a personal prediction. The countries with the most stable governments, more progressive societies and better education levels will keep trending downward on religions of all stripes. Islam will grow at a healthy clip for a decade or so and then level out. Religion generally will outnumber non-religious for... 100 years? 1000? No idea. I highly doubt that in 500 years we will have it messing with science and government like we allow it to do today.
PericIes says2015-09-04T21:22:57.4396940Z
@TBR Atheism will become more and more significant for a time, yes. And, yes, it will probably be in more developed countries. Howeverm this will be mostly due to conversion, and after a while their numbers will decline. People from most developed countries, and atheists especially, *do not have enough babies to increase, or even maintain, their population through reproduction.* This is documented. Here's just one source. http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/edwest/100029971/atheism-is-doomed-the-contraceptive-pill-is-secularisms-cyanide-tablet/
PericIes says2015-09-04T21:23:21.3390472Z
TBR says2015-09-05T00:17:32.6717078Z
@PericIes - Birthrates in other developing nations will (do) stabilize too as they develop.
PericIes says2015-09-05T00:33:00.2870922Z
They'll still be higher than that of already developing nations. Even then, atheists in all areas generally have fewer babies.
PericIes says2015-09-05T00:35:57.3048310Z
TBR says2015-09-05T01:44:12.5600672Z
My point is, as the undeveloped becomes more... Developed, it will cycle the same way.
TBR says2015-09-05T01:46:29.7682955Z
The is no stamp on my Baby that says "atheists" and I don't recall seeing other babies with "Christian" or "Muslim" on their a$$. The insidious nature of indoctrination is the brand. Atheists come when the conditions allow for people to be "free", in a stable environment, and with access to better education.
TBR says2015-09-05T01:48:06.2307925Z
I realize that I have a lot of conditions to thank for my freedom to NOT believe.
PericIes says2015-09-06T00:03:51.7919474Z
I realize that as the countries become more developed they will have fewer babies. However, atheists in any society tend to have fewer babies than non-atheist counterparts. http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/edwest/100029971/atheism-is-doomed-the-contraceptive-pill-is-secularisms-cyanide-tablet/ Furthermore, even though the population of atheists relative to the population of people of other creeds is increasing in most developed countries, it's actually decreasing in the world as a whole, and will continue to do so for at least 50 years. Http://www.Pewforum.Org/2015/04/02/religious-projections-2010-2050/
TBR says2015-09-06T00:07:48.1692082Z
@PericIes - Please see my post about babies. There is no such thing as an "atheists baby". My son is whatever the hell he wants to be. Its only the religious that attempt to indoctrinate, and when people are safe and educated they are much more likely to "think freely" about religion, and more likely to walk from the entire mess.
PericIes says2015-09-06T00:12:18.4303735Z
I was actually talking about atheist parents. Specifically the fact that they have fewer babies than other parents.
PericIes says2015-09-06T00:13:02.3602551Z
Well, I guess it would be more accurate to say "atheist adults," since the birth rate is so abysmal.
TBR says2015-09-06T00:17:19.6430610Z
I think you are missing the point. I agree that atheists have fewer children. I disagree that that has any real meaning. Christian parents do not turn out Christian™ children. Given proper conditions, Christian, Muslims, Jews, any religious society becomes LESS religious with education, freedom and safety. Is that clear?
PericIes says2015-09-06T00:21:03.2021374Z
It is clear, but my point is that, in the long run, the lower birth rate of atheists will catch up to them, and there won't be any more loosely religious people left to come to their side and swell their numbers.
Bob13 says2015-09-07T18:07:48.9722120Z
The whole idea of atheism makes no sense to me. If science explains everything, then what explains science? How do we know science wasn't misleading us all this time? Plus, the Big Bang is entirely illogical, and so is Steady State theory, so God has to exist.
TBR says2015-09-07T18:35:34.8141248Z
@PericIes - Yea, I don't think I am getting through. Atheists don't have to produce one child for atheism to grow, that is the point.
PericIes says2015-09-07T19:30:24.5796756Z
@TBR Yes. Yes they do. In the long term, yes they do.
TBR says2015-09-09T21:45:25.3137506Z
I may liek to do a debate on the subject
Donderpants says2015-09-24T10:45:49.3391687Z
@Bob13- Because science has all the evidence, and the Big Bang theory is intuitive and logical.

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