Will Atheism Lead to the Collapse of American Society?

Posted by: briantheliberal

According to Bill O'Reilly, a Christian right-wing political commentator on FOX News, the rise of atheism and decline of Christianity in America will lead to the collapse of American society, just like Ancient Rome (who, by the way, collapsed mostly because of Christianity). What do you think? - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzsG9vgh8Lc

  • Yes, America will collapse because of atheism.

  • No, America will not collapse because of atheism.

23% 19 votes
77% 63 votes
  • The rise of atheism will cause many Judeo-Christian values to be left behind, leading the people into sin, from where the collapse of America, or the world, may come. Already, we see this happening with the legalizing of abortion and same-sex marriage. When society goes astray, it leads its people astray with it.

  • Well Nihilism is definitely capable of collapsing a country, and it is part of atheism so I guess you could say atheism could collapse america. But considering how stupidly general word atheism is, it would be highly overgeneralized to say atheism could collapse America. So to be specific Nihilist atheist could could collapse America.

  • This country will lose all morality and inevitably collapse.

  • I've noticed from profiles on this site that atheists are almost all pro abortion and gay marriage. If they get their way the whole world will be corrupt.

    Posted by: Bob13
  • No morals = Bad law

  • Religion is simply a poison in this world. It had stunned growth technological growth as we have seen through history. Furthermore it is the antithesis for rational thinking. Once, someone is bound by the chain of religion and wilfully close their eyes to reason, then the chain will more than not, be forever engrained in the psyche. For USA, Europe, Asia, and the World in general, we must understand the importance of education and the value of asking questions. Thank you.

  • Im not against the population being majority religious at all so long as theres a complete seperation of church amd state (and issue we need to address) but im also equally ok eith ot beung majority athiest. uou personally can still believe whatever you want no matter what the majority is. Im sock of thiests and athiests treatung each other like the poison of society because of loud minorities on both sides.

    Posted by: Stefy
  • Christian Dark Ages...Enough said.

    Posted by: roun12
  • Remember the destruction of pagan, burning of "witches" also known mostly as mentally ill humans, remember the slaughter of atheist during the middle ages all of these were religious acts

  • Unless by american society you mean the overly religious, fundamentalist society that restricts the freedoms of many people, then maybe yes. But then I would be glad if that society collapsed.

  • America is already collapsing because of Christianity.

    Posted by: benhos
  • Religious people claim that religion keeps peace, while millions and maybe even billions of people have died because of it.

  • This is why the US will not have a Republican President - they say that 20% of the country will lead to our collapse.

  • Religion has served it's purpose- it can easily be replaced by the vastly more useful science and a few simple moral lessons at school. Atheism is if anything a boon for America. Why do people seem to think Atheists can't have morals? They most certainly can, and why would religious people have morals and Atheists not? Are people seriously thinking that people wanting to go to the afterlife the reason anyone has morality? That's really sad.....

  • Atheism is just like any other religion (well, it's a lack of religion, but...). Just like people of other religions, only a few members go around bashing people for believing in things. I, as an atheist, am perfectly fine with and supportive of any religion. However, I am not supportive of those who use their religions to justify hate towards groups of people. Isn't religion supposed to be a helpful thing? Isn't it supposed to bring members of a religion together? Religion has created so many conflicts, and discrepancies between atheists and Christians or other religions should not be another conflict. We will not bring down America. Most of us love America. We only dislike those who bash Muslims for being Muslims, gays for being gays, transgender people for being transgender, etc. Homophobes, racists, transphobes, and haters will bring the downfall of anything unless love prevails. Always remember that our founding fathers wanted a separation of church and state.

  • Of course it won't lead to the collapse of America. We have freedom of religion in the country. Saying that atheism will destroy America is like saying any other religion will destroy America too. While people are going and saying that atheism will destroy America, why don't they go and blame the other religions as well? Atheism is a choice. In all honesty, atheism seems to be the only 'religion' that makes for fair decisions in America. If we made decisions based on one specific religion it would be unfair to those who don't believe in it. By making decisions that aren't based on a specific religion is is fair to everyone because no one religion wins over another. Atheism may be what keeps America going or years to come.

  • I agree with most of the no comments. Anyone, or almost anyone can get involved with Congregations and claim they Believers, Saved ect..There are those who mislead the True Believers for a variety of reasons. I was born into a Catholic Family, there was a lot of dysfunction in my oppinion. I was intimidated, my Mom was intimidated and we were both very Passive as a result of the Dominate Personalities..This is not the Culture I want for my daughters.

  • If anything, atheism is good. In the past, there have been wars dedicated to fighting their religion. People will murder other people just to defend their religion. I've never heard of an atheist doing that. Parents will kick their own child out because they are gay, atheist, or other reasons. I've never heard of an atheist doing that either.

    Posted by: kt302
  • Any person who thinks otherwise is a moron.

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briantheliberal says2015-05-14T01:26:13.8113624-05:00
This is what Republican politician, Rick Santorum, had to say about the infamous rise of atheism in America - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9wGtJnBJbU
briantheliberal says2015-05-14T01:32:21.3483960-05:00
If you say 'yes' please feel free to explain why you feel that way. How exactly will the rise of atheism in America destroy it?
TheHappyReaper says2015-05-14T06:30:50.4918178-05:00
Actually, if you look at religion trends, there is a projected increase in Christians
FantumHeist says2015-05-14T06:53:17.6672705-05:00
There was a massive riot in Rome as well because of the death of Caesar the cause of the greatest empire known to man
briantheliberal says2015-05-14T07:28:48.4927744-05:00
TheHappyReaper, not according to the most recent data, and statistics.
briantheliberal says2015-05-14T07:40:18.9584834-05:00
Pro-lifeConservative, that sounds like a lot of fear-mongering to me. If you honestly believe there is anything inherently moral about Christianity, then you haven't actually analyzed the religion itself, or the majority of the people who practice it. Christianity didn't stop slavery, the dark ages, the holocaust, segregation, the Salem witch trials. It encouraged and was used to justify all of these things. And while you whine and complain about abortion, and treating gay people like human beings, many Christians are still using their religion to spread hate and bigotry around the world. In the United States, a large portion of the same people who call themselves Christians are also pro-war, pro-gun, racist, homophobic, anti-poor, and anti- anyone who is not Christian. Meanwhile, places where atheism, agnosticism, and unaffiliated religion remain consistently high also have better quality of life, longer life expectancy, equal rights etc... So until I see irrefutable evidence indicating that the rise of atheism in America is responsible for it's decline, fear mongering will get you nowhere in this issue.
Diqiucun_Cunmin says2015-05-14T09:49:03.8814952-05:00
It really depends. If the atheists take up Confucianism, not only will it not destroy the US, but it will also make it a far better place. Of course, if they end up being nihilists... Then I'm afraid so. I'm sure most nihilists on DDO are perfectly good people who only believe it for philosophical reasons... But as long as there's evil in the world, nihilism will only lead to grave dangers.
briantheliberal says2015-05-14T10:00:09.2300252-05:00
Mathgeekjoe, "Well Nihilism is definitely capable of collapsing a country, and it is part of atheism" - This blatant display of ignorance, and doesn't even answer the question. Rejecting traditional or religious principles doesn't cause a society to suddenly collapse, nor is it an inherent part of atheism. Atheism is simply a lack of belief in a deity or higher power, there is nothing more to it than that. Associating nihilism with atheism shows you have no idea what either or those two terms mean. Even nihilism in itself cannot cause society to collapse. If anything, holding onto outdated beliefs, which is what religion is about, causes society to collapse because it cannot continue to exist if it doesn't change and evolve with society. Take a look at the Middle East. Either way, the question was not "Could atheism cause society to collapse" it is "Will atheism cause society to collapse".
Midnight1131 says2015-05-14T10:01:42.4256200-05:00
Well, just look at Norway or Sweden, they're doing pretty great and aren't religious at all.
briantheliberal says2015-05-14T10:03:45.0926605-05:00
Midnight, exactly right. But a lot of religious people ignore that.
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-14T10:43:29.4614189-05:00
@briantheliberal. I think you failed to read the rest of the vote I made which mentioned that it would be a stupidly general to call atheism something because of nihilism.
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-14T10:47:03.8337094-05:00
"Will atheism cause society to collapse" To answer if something will happen is quite difficult thing to answer because the future is not guaranteed. Also I consider my viewpoints to be more align with the left column rather than the right, so I feel that I voted on the poll appropriately .
briantheliberal says2015-05-14T10:54:40.4528398-05:00
Mathgeekjoe, I read your entire comment, and responded to it. Either way, it doesn't matter because you were wrong for linking the two in the first place.
briantheliberal says2015-05-14T10:55:55.9565314-05:00
"I consider my viewpoints to be more align with the left column" - So your beliefs align with people who believe atheism will destroy America? Okay.
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-14T10:56:44.5126223-05:00
Is it wrong to link squares to rectangles?
FantumHeist says2015-05-14T11:10:00.3641570-05:00
A rectangle is merely a longer square
Midnight1131 says2015-05-14T11:13:00.3748648-05:00
Fantumheist, your logic of basic geometry is appalling. Squares are rectangles, all rectangles aren't squares.
FantumHeist says2015-05-14T11:16:42.3189102-05:00
They might look different one is just longer, but they are both shapes correct?
Midnight1131 says2015-05-14T11:17:02.6615710-05:00
Sorry, I didn't mean logic of basic geometry, I meant knowledge of basic geometry.
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-14T11:17:59.1371176-05:00
All squares are rectangles.
FantumHeist says2015-05-14T11:18:49.9526209-05:00
It's ok humans are bond to make mistakes I just lost my TV remote
Midnight1131 says2015-05-14T11:19:18.5979556-05:00
Yeah, but that's not what Mathgeekjoe meant. The general definition of a rectangle is a plane figure with four straight sides and four right angles, especially one with unequal adjacent sides, in contrast to a square. The definition of a square is a plane figure with four EQUAL straight sides and four right angles. So he was incorrectly linking the fact that all squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares with atheism and nihilism. Saying that they're all linking because they're all shapes is very general, and that's like saying a circle and a square have many things in common.
FantumHeist says2015-05-14T11:20:20.8027510-05:00
I just wanted to put a penny in the jar not state Mathgeekjoe was wrong
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-14T11:26:00.9594778-05:00
@Midnight1131. I do not find anything wrong with my comparison. I was merely using rectangle and squares as an example because all squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares. This is just like how all nihilist are atheist but not all atheist are nihilist. A nihilist is a certain type of atheist, squares are a type of rectangle.
Midnight1131 says2015-05-14T11:28:08.1349026-05:00
Can you find a subcategory of atheism that specifically requires people to be nihilists.
FantumHeist says2015-05-14T11:29:13.3480122-05:00
All cookie dough is made into cookies but not all cookies are made from cookie dough
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-14T11:30:18.3341718-05:00
Is nihilism not a category? Are nihilist not atheist?
Midnight1131 says2015-05-14T11:31:40.0948200-05:00
Nihilism is the belief that life is meaningless. Atheism is a lack of belief in a god or gods. You're linking the two when there is no real connection. Only a very small amount of atheists are nihilists.
Midnight1131 says2015-05-14T11:32:15.5696748-05:00
And again, nihilism isn't a category of atheism.
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-14T11:32:48.2364936-05:00
@Midnight1131, a very small amount of rectangles are squares.
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-14T11:33:49.3736774-05:00
@Midnight1131 I have a question. Are nihilist not members of atheism?
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-14T11:34:23.3353128-05:00
Bad wording of my last question, this one will be better. What percentage of nihilist are also atheist?
Midnight1131 says2015-05-14T13:25:53.1374661-05:00
Again, you completely ignore what I said. If 1% of atheists are nihilists, are you going to blame atheism?
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-14T19:23:58.6262071-05:00
What percentage of nihilist are also atheist?
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-14T19:27:50.4763795-05:00
@Midnight1131, if you look at my vote I am not blaming atheism in general. But I am not incorrect in saying that a certain group of atheism (perhaps only 1%) could destroy america.
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-14T19:29:37.6029529-05:00
"And again, nihilism isn't a category of atheism." "Again, you completely ignore what I said. If 1% of atheists are nihilists, are you going to blame atheism?" That is as backwards as saying that a genius isn't a category of human.
Midnight1131 says2015-05-14T20:41:27.2986047-05:00
Mathgeekjoe, you say "I am not blaming atheism in general." But this post is talking about atheism in general. And the overwhelming majority of atheists aren't nihilists.
Midnight1131 says2015-05-14T20:42:10.6434891-05:00
And the link between nihilism and atheism is in no way connected to geniuses and humans. Because nihilism and atheism are two sets of beliefs, or lack of.
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-14T21:00:16.5034815-05:00
@Midnight1131, Majority of atheist don't even consider themselves atheist, Looking at Census, 95% of those who are atheist, don't even consider themselves atheist.
MechVarg says2015-05-14T21:15:22.7336074-05:00
Lol, stupid
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-14T21:22:56.9604617-05:00
@MechVarg, I have no idea exactly what are you calling stupid. May you clarify?
Varrack says2015-05-14T21:28:34.7904219-05:00
I don't really agree with either side. To say that America will collapse because of a belief system is a bit of a stretch. However, atheism entails nihilism, and a nihilist society would probably lead to a decline in morality, which is detrimental to society. To believe that life means nothing and is worthless can arguably be hurtful to the moral standing of a community because life itself is devalued.
Midnight1131 says2015-05-14T21:33:43.9986606-05:00
Varrack, but a very small percentage of atheists are nihilists. And besides, look at Scandinavian countries, they aren't religious, and they get by just fine.
Midnight1131 says2015-05-14T21:34:58.1543625-05:00
But Varrack, atheism doesn't necessarily lead to nihilism, infact most of the time it doesn't. An example being countries like Sweden or Norway, in which the majority of people are non religious.
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-14T21:41:18.7987266-05:00
@Midnight1131, Aren't all nihilist members of atheism? You have been dancing around this question for way too long. Are you unable to answer it?
Varrack says2015-05-14T21:43:17.4361694-05:00
Midnight, what makes you think that? Look at this poll for example: the majority of voters admit that life is pointless. I can only assume that they're atheists. http://www.debate.org/polls/is-life-pointless2
Midnight1131 says2015-05-14T22:02:17.6264956-05:00
Varrack, but that's only a post on this site, that less than 50 people responded to. I still believe that the fact that there are countries where the majority of the population is non religious, is a good indicator that atheistic societies will not succumb to nihilism.
Midnight1131 says2015-05-14T22:03:26.3297764-05:00
Mathgeekjoe, I admit that all nihilists, or the overwhelming majority, probably are atheists. But you still didn't respond to how countries can have non religious populations and still prosper. Or that the overwhelming majority of atheists aren't nihilists.
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-14T23:31:38.9461758-05:00
@midnight1131, I am not trying to say all rectangles are squares. I am merely saying squares are rectangles. If all square did action A, then technically all rhombus rectangle did action A. Or to be more general a type of rectangle did action A. Is it wrong to say rectangles did action A? No. Would it be overgeneralizing? Yes. There is a reason why I mentioned specifically that nihilist atheist would destroy america, not atheist in general.
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-14T23:35:22.0325005-05:00
@Midnight1131 An overwhelming majority of ATHEIST don't EVEN CONSIDER THEMSELVES ATHEIST!!! So really what is your point in saying that majority of atheist aren't nihilist.
Midnight1131 says2015-05-15T07:27:39.3846673-05:00
Mathgeekjoe, my point in saying that the majority of atheists aren't nihilists means that a rise in atheism is unlikely to turn into a nihilist society. And the fact that most atheists choose a different title for themselves has nothing to do with this.
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-15T08:13:51.2947804-05:00
Exactly what difference is there between no religion and atheism? ZERO!!! Is there a difference in which category a person puts themselfs in? Major. Your rise of an average atheistic society, wouldn't even consider itself atheistic!
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-15T08:17:03.6608466-05:00
But anyways. Lets say there was a rise of a nihilist society, wouldn't that be a rise of a type of atheism?
tajshar2k says2015-05-15T08:18:33.6272000-05:00
I still don't get how this would collapse American society.
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-15T08:21:28.6458438-05:00
Nihilism is very capable of destroying society in general, not just the US.
tajshar2k says2015-05-15T08:21:55.4279852-05:00
How?
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-15T08:23:22.6521054-05:00
Tajshar2k, do you know what nihilism is?
tajshar2k says2015-05-15T08:24:18.3136190-05:00
You can't say all atheists are nihilism though. Unless you can prove it of course.
tajshar2k says2015-05-15T08:24:48.8434329-05:00
*nihilist
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-15T08:30:40.8461232-05:00
"You can't say all atheists are nihilism though." I have said several times that not all atheist are nihilist!!!. For pete's sake, I have even said that majority of atheist don't even consider themselves atheist!
tajshar2k says2015-05-15T08:34:03.0715158-05:00
Then how well Atheists destroy America? In many atheists countries people are happy and enjoy life. So I don't get why that would change here.
tajshar2k says2015-05-15T08:34:11.5794685-05:00
Will*
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-15T08:36:28.7979878-05:00
@Tajshar2k, If squares were to destroy america, would I be incorrect in saying rectangles destroyed america?
tajshar2k says2015-05-15T08:40:42.7059001-05:00
"If squares were to destroy america, would I be incorrect in saying rectangles destroyed america? " Hypothetically you are not wrong, but they never destroyed countries like Norway, so why would it answer America? I ask you not to give another example with quadrilaterals.
tajshar2k says2015-05-15T08:42:55.4127406-05:00
*destroy America
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-15T08:49:34.2813374-05:00
"I ask you not to give another example with quadrilaterals." But quadrilaterals are so much easier to use for explanations.
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-15T08:50:33.0602078-05:00
"Hypothetically you are not wrong, but they never destroyed countries like Norway," The rectangles in Norway weren't rhombus rectangles.
tajshar2k says2015-05-15T08:56:55.1871068-05:00
Oh, what were they then?
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-15T08:58:06.2616180-05:00
Rectangles that did not have 4 equal sides. Thus were not rhombus rectangles.
tajshar2k says2015-05-15T09:01:23.7757502-05:00
How come the U.S doesn't have that?
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-15T09:04:51.3472638-05:00
Did I ever say that the US doesn't have non-rhombus rectangles? No. But it doesn't change the fact that rhombus rectangles could destroy america.
tajshar2k says2015-05-15T09:15:24.2209250-05:00
Rhombus rectangles could destroy any country. But they haven't destroyed Norway or Finland. So why would they destroy the U.S?
Midnight1131 says2015-05-15T09:15:35.5778706-05:00
Again, if 2% of rectangles are rhombus rectangles, you don't go around blaming rectangles in general.
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-15T09:18:19.9718095-05:00
@tajshar2k, There aren't many rhombus rectangles in Norway and Finland. If there were many rhombus rectangles in Norway and Finland, then they would end up being destroyed.
tajshar2k says2015-05-15T09:19:40.2046068-05:00
So what makes you think they are Rhombus rectangles in the U.S?
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-15T09:21:11.9374201-05:00
@Midnight1131. Only 5% of rectangles even think they are rectangles. So 2% of rectangles would be like half of the ones who consider themselves rectangles. But anyways, I don't know how many time I have to say this, but I am not blaming rectangles in general, I am merely blaming a specific type of rectangle.
Midnight1131 says2015-05-15T09:23:55.0868045-05:00
You say you're not blaming rectangles in general, but the question that you responded to is asking about rectangles in general. And anyone who doesn't believe in god is an atheist, regardless of what they choose to call themselves, some people would rather not choose their title based on what they don't believe in.
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-15T09:29:34.7917186-05:00
"some people would rather not choose their title based on what they don't believe in" Many atheist haven't even heard of the words atheism, face it or not, the group atheist is way to fleeping general.
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-15T09:30:29.7813346-05:00
@Midnight1131. Look at my vote's comment. Look at the comments on the other side, which column is my vote closer to?
Midnight1131 says2015-05-15T09:31:57.1905708-05:00
You ignore half of what I said. But you're saying this - Atheist is the word that describes people who don't believe in god, and you're saying that people who don't believe in God, but haven't heard the word atheist, don't count as atheists.
tajshar2k says2015-05-15T09:41:46.0670855-05:00
You still haven't answered my question
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-15T09:44:33.3153490-05:00
"Atheist is the word that describes people who don't believe in god, and you're saying that people who don't believe in God, but haven't heard the word atheist, don't count as atheists." I never said they don't count as atheist, I don't think you are reading my comments correctly. I am merely saying that one, the word atheism is way too general. And two, there is a specific type of atheism that could destroy america if it became common. I have never said that atheism in general will destroy america.
Midnight1131 says2015-05-15T09:45:24.4840050-05:00
I know you didn't, but the question you responded to isn't talking about nihilism, it's talking about atheism in general.
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-15T09:50:44.8137063-05:00
@Midnight1131. Look at my vote's comment. Look at the comments on the other side, which column is my vote closer to?
Midnight1131 says2015-05-15T09:52:28.5507669-05:00
Yeah, you say that nihilism could lead to the collapse of America. Considering that the majority of atheists aren't nihilists, I wouldn't say that your opinion is closer to the left column.
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-15T12:00:18.8037770-05:00
@Midnight1131, the only reason my vote would be in the right column would be if I got overly technical. Look at the right column, it is mostly filled with anti-religious rants. If you look at the question, it is highly waited to one side. For example, the word "will" could also technically put me into the right column. Because nobody knows what will happen, and specifically I would try my best to make sure it doesn't happen. For me to say it "will happen" would be saying I am guaranteed at failing to protect my country from collapse. There is also the fact that the word atheist is so stupidly general that the literally only thing that can be said about the group is that the lack a belief in a god. For pete's sake I can't even say that atheist aren't religious because some believe in religions. So again the question is weighted to the right column. But I believe that a certain type of atheism, nihilism, could collapse the US. That belief is far backwards from the right column.
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-15T12:03:58.2829908-05:00
So exactly why do you so badly want me to vote with the column that contains things so backwards of my belief because of a technicality?
Midnight1131 says2015-05-15T20:27:10.3095770-05:00
Wait, did you just say that some atheists are religious? But anyways, you're defining the whole group of people, as the question is in fact talking about atheism in general, by a very small percentage of people. And you're only engaging in hypothetical situations, as the non religious make up the majority in some countries around the world, and these countries are prospering. Also, I could say that the rise of Christianity could harm a nation, because of the slight possibility that the majority of these Christians would be the same type of people that make up the KKK. But of course, no one would say that, because this is an absurd possibility, and since there are many societies that haven't collapsed because of Christianity, no one with common sense would say this. It's really the same thing with this question, just swap out Christianity with atheism.
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-16T20:30:45.8274584-05:00
"Wait, did you just say that some atheists are religious?" There are religions that do not believe in a god, thus are included in atheist. I find it weird that you seemed surprised, I would expect you to know what groups are included under the super general term atheist.
Midnight1131 says2015-05-16T20:33:14.3698868-05:00
First off, you ignored half of what I wrote. But more to the point, when answering a question using "the super general term atheist," I only look at atheism, and not the countless groups that could be a part of it, because that is what the question is asking. Also, the definition of religion is - the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power. Believe it or not, this means that no religions fall under the term of atheism.
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-16T20:33:56.3995016-05:00
"But of course, no one would say that, because this is an absurd possibility, and since there are many societies that haven't collapsed because of Christianity, no one with common sense would say this." Hahahaha, apparently you haven't been here long. There has been several claims of that against Christianity. I have even seen the KKK example before. Also if you look at the right column, you would see several claims of christianity destroying america. What type of double standard are you using?
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-16T20:37:41.9905507-05:00
"First off, you ignored half of what I wrote." I was going to write several comments. You responded before I could finish replying to your comment.
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-16T20:42:51.7986966-05:00
"Also, the definition of religion is - the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power." Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism, Syntheism, Raelism, and Neopagan movements such as Wicca. These are all religions that one can also be atheist and be a part of.
Midnight1131 says2015-05-16T21:18:12.3888853-05:00
This is hilarious. Do you even have the slightest idea of what hinduism is? It's a polytheistic religion, meaning there are more than one gods. As for jainism, they have a term, vandetadgunalabhdhaye – i.e. "we pray to the attributes of such Gods to acquire such attributes". I've never heard of syntheism, and a quick search revealed nothing, just suggested that my spelling is wrong, so please go more into detail of what this is please. Raelism teaches that life on earth was created scientifically by aliens, so these aliens are basically god, the creator. Also, Wicca is a duotheistic religion, worshipping 2 gods, a god and goddess. So the examples that you gave me are not, in fact, "religions that are atheistic." But since this entire comment debate is getting off point. My main point was that you shouldn't vote no on this poll simply because a very small percentage of atheists are nihilists.
briantheliberal says2015-05-16T21:19:26.4665852-05:00
"These are all religions that one can also be atheist and be a part of." - Is this a joke?
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-16T21:21:53.7783906-05:00
"http://atheism.About.Com/od/atheismquestions/p/AtheistReligion.Htm" A great reference on what is atheism :P
briantheliberal says2015-05-16T21:23:48.7986652-05:00
Atheism - noun; disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of gods. That's pretty much it.
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-16T21:29:43.6804154-05:00
@Midnight1131. "My main point was that you shouldn't vote no on this poll simply because a very small percentage of atheists are nihilists." Did you make a typo here? It says I shouldn't vote on the right side, and my vote was on the left.
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-16T21:46:50.8347596-05:00
"Atheism - noun; disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of gods. " I agree. It says nothing about being in a religion though. If you are in a religion and lack a belief in god(s), then you are also atheist.
briantheliberal says2015-05-16T21:57:58.6924887-05:00
But if that religion requires you to worship or believe in a deity, you can't also be an atheist. Christians cannot be atheists for example, because it requires belief and worship of a god that atheists, by definition, don't believe in.
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-16T22:04:49.5418263-05:00
@briantheliberal, I am not disagreeing with you. I consider anyone who calls themselves Christian atheist, to just be atheist. But there are religions that do not require a belief in god(s).
briantheliberal says2015-05-16T22:55:49.8600084-05:00
No, what I am saying is, no Christian can call themselves atheists. A religious atheist is an oxymoron, because in order to be religious, you have to believe in some kind of higher power or superhuman authority figure, which is the complete opposite of atheism. Most "godless" religions aren't even considered religions, but ideologies or philosophies, such as Buddhism, or Confucianism.
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-17T09:01:36.9111110-05:00
"it is necessary to keep in mind that atheism is nothing more than absence belief in the existence of gods. Atheism is not the absence of religion, the absence of belief in the supernatural, the absence of superstitions, the absence of irrational beliefs, etc. Because of this, there is no inherent barrier preventing atheism from being part of a religious belief system." http://atheism.about.com/od/atheismquestions/a/AtheismReligion.htm
Midnight1131 says2015-05-17T12:19:48.3987859-05:00
Yes Mathgeekjoe, that was a typo. I meant that you shouldn't vote yes, because of a small percentage of atheists that are nihilists.
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-17T13:52:56.2539286-05:00
So again I ask, exactly why do you so badly want me to vote with the column that contains things so backwards of my belief because of a technicality?
Varrack says2015-05-17T14:02:08.8699027-05:00
@Midnight, where is your evidence for claiming that very few atheists are nihilists?
Midnight1131 says2015-05-17T17:08:59.5307918-05:00
@mathgeekjoe, I don't want you to change your vote, I'd just like it if you had a better reason than stating that the rise of atheism will lead to an alarming rise in nihilism.
briantheliberal says2015-05-17T20:04:37.3048979-05:00
Varrack, where is your evidence proving that most atheists ARE nihilists?
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-18T19:16:19.5913832-05:00
@midnight1131. I never said that a rise in atheism will lead to an alarming rise in nihilism. What I did say is that "it would be highly overgeneralized to say atheism could collapse America."
Midnight1131 says2015-05-18T21:28:50.2134493-05:00
"It would be highly overgeneralized to say atheism will collapse America." But you still vote on the option that says atheism will lead to the collapse of America.
Varrack says2015-05-18T21:36:06.9521631-05:00
If one country was 100% theist and another country 100% atheist, the latter nation is more likely to have nihilists than the former. Thus, if America became atheistic..We could potentially see a rise in nihilism, which is, imo, detrimental to society.
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-19T07:42:24.9272422-05:00
@midnight1131 Now you are contradicting yourself. Which is it. " I don't want you to change your vote" or "But you still vote on the option that says atheism will lead to the collapse of America." Those two statements seem to have motives that contradict each other.
132sque says2015-05-19T07:52:08.6908088-05:00
Nihilists! Where is your proof that these will be created through an overly atheist nation? The Uk is becoming increasingly atheistic, i've never met one. To claim that atheism leads to a path of illoyal, careless people is frankly bizarre. We're still human! We just don't believe in a higher power... We still go on with our lives loving people around us. Infact I would say we are MORE open to hearing others ideas and opinions. Besides, i'd rather a 100& atheist over theist anyday. You only have to look at nations of which are most religious to see what state they're are in...Not good
briantheliberal says2015-05-19T08:03:12.8244497-05:00
Varrack, you clearly pulled that straight from your a-- and have no evidence to back it up, which I already asked you for and you haven't provided. This imaginary link between atheism and nihilism you made up is based on your own biases, as usual. The most atheistic countries in the world also rank the highest in human rights, global peace, happiness and overall social and economic success. This includes many countries in Europe and Asia, such as Sweden, Norway, Japan, South Korea. The most theistic societies are also the ones plagued the most with poverty, brutality, war, and violence in general. This includes Iran, Nigeria, Colombia, and Pakistan. They also rank the lowest on the human rights scale, global peace, among other things. So which is really detrimental to society?
132sque says2015-05-19T08:10:21.3354802-05:00
Well put Brian, What he said ↑
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-19T08:14:48.1474111-05:00
"Varrack, you clearly pulled that straight from your a--" Varrack's claim actually is completely true and logical. Let me give a hypothetical to show why. Lets ask which group would most like be plague by squares. A group that 100% circle or a group that is 100% rectangle. Well since it is impossible for a circle to be a square, but it is not impossible for a rectangle to be a square, The latter group is more likely to be plague by squares than the former.
tajshar2k says2015-05-19T08:16:53.4469182-05:00
Not the squares...
132sque says2015-05-19T08:20:01.7315473-05:00
And what about the ovals!!!!
briantheliberal says2015-05-19T08:42:53.1358141-05:00
"Varrack's claim actually is completely true and logical." - This coming from some who holds the same ridiculously biased and illogical views that he does. All of that circle, square, rectangle nonsense proves nothing.
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-19T08:50:49.6849649-05:00
@Briantheliberal. Varrack's claim was "If one country was 100% theist and another country 100% atheist, the latter nation is more likely to have nihilists than the former." How is this claim false? A country that is 100% theist cannot have any nihilist. But a country that is 100% atheist can have nihilist in it. By mere logic the claim is true.
132sque says2015-05-19T08:53:59.0616220-05:00
Yes but you're talking about a dangerous group of people within a certain demographic. In this case nihilists within atheists. You cannot say this isn't the same with the theist population. So what i the point of bringing it up.
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-19T08:57:46.7365984-05:00
"So what i the point of bringing it up." Why didn't you counter his claim with that instead of claiming the true claim to be false. While the claim can argued as irrelevant, it is not false, yet you and brian have claimed it was false.
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-19T08:58:36.7909555-05:00
So why call a true claim you consider irrelevant, false?
briantheliberal says2015-05-19T10:46:36.5262166-05:00
"How is this claim false? A country that is 100% theist cannot have any nihilist." - It's false because there is no evidence. And being a theist doesn't negate being a nihilist. You do realize people's actions don't always reflect the expectations of their faith, correct? There are more nihilist theists in America for example, which is why the overwhelming majority of people in prison identify as Christian. Less than 1% identify as atheist.
132sque says2015-05-19T11:02:08.8979785-05:00
Excuse me? I quite clearly asked for proof and you replied with none. I do not believe it, how can I without proof you ended your own argument. I clearly said "YOU'RE talking about"... "Yes but you're talking about a dangerous group of people within a certain demographic. In this case nihilists within atheists. You cannot say this isn't the same with the theist population. So what i the point of bringing it up." Even if what you say is true (which i do not believe as stated) you cannot ignore the fact that the same hypothesis exists within the theistic demographic also. If you base a whole population upon the minority extremists then i'm not going to take you seriously.
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-19T11:05:09.6692154-05:00
According to http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/nihilism by definition an nihilist can not be a member of any religion. "The rejection of all religious and moral principles, often in the belief that life is meaningless."
briantheliberal says2015-05-19T11:06:41.1121607-05:00
What part of "people's actions do not always reflect their faith" did you not understand before?
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-19T11:08:57.4268569-05:00
How on earth can you have a faith if you reject all religious principles. What type of definition of faith are you using?
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-19T11:09:19.7374291-05:00
@Briantheliberal, and last time I checked, the percent of U.S. prisoners that are christian is equivalent to the percent of U.S. citizens that are christian.
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-19T11:15:04.8160908-05:00
"Less than 1% identify as atheist." Less than 1% of the U.S. population identified as atheist as well in US census. Exactly what on earth is your claim?
132sque says2015-05-19T11:17:54.6222128-05:00
Pretty sure he's stating that if atheists were the immoral dangerous people that will lead to the collapse of america as you state, then it would mostly be atheists in prison. But clearly that's not the case.
briantheliberal says2015-05-19T11:27:05.0007968-05:00
Christians make up 70% of the overall U.S. population, and make up about 80% of the U.S. prison population. The majority of those Christians being Catholics and Protestants who make up 74% of the U.S. prison population combined. Atheists and unaffiliated currently make up less than 20% of the U.S. population, and make up 0.07% of the U.S. prison population, which is extremely low for a bunch of nihilists, right? http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/are-prisoners-less-likely-to-be-atheists/
briantheliberal says2015-05-19T11:31:12.9725248-05:00
Mathgeekjoe, where do you get your flawed statistics from? I'm guessing FAUX News or some other right wing media outlet of lies and deception?
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-19T23:59:04.0077346-05:00
@Briantheliberal I got my statistics from http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/07/16/what-percentage-of-prisoners-are-atheists-its-a-lot-smaller-than-we-ever-imagined/, and http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0075.pdf
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-20T00:02:46.2010432-05:00
@Briantheliberal, I want your statistic for the percent of the population that is atheist. I fear that in fact you are the one with the flawed statistics :)
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-20T00:09:58.0035112-05:00
"Mathgeekjoe, where do you get your flawed statistics from? I'm guessing FAUX News or some other right wing media outlet of lies and deception?" News outlets in general are known for bias, it is always better to go right to the source information. Unfortunately considering your flawed statistics, I feel that you are in fact the one guilty of listening to outlets of lies and deception.
briantheliberal says2015-05-20T00:36:31.2409914-05:00
Mathgeekjoe, you can't even read your own damn sources correctly. It clearly does not say anywhere in that census document that atheists make up 1% of the overall U.S. population. All non-religious people make up about 20% of the overall U.S. population, and it's growing to a steady 22% of the U.S. population. http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2012/10/09/non_religious_americans_now_one_fifth_of_the_population_according_to_pew_survey_.html
briantheliberal says2015-05-20T00:37:08.4844660-05:00
In fact, neither of your sources support what you say.
Mathgeekjoe says2015-05-20T02:44:38.8403854-05:00
Brian, what matters isn't the source's text but their data. Try doing some of your own calculations some time. Anyways if you use my census source, you get a good idea of the group that has no prefered religion, about 13.34% of the population. If you take the no prefered religion group in the prison group, you get 17%. Now according to the definition of atheism, those who lack a belief in a god. You will notice that there is a higher no prefer religion in prison than in the census.
greatkitteh says2015-06-28T08:14:04.7982095-05:00
Oh no, Im not a christian, Looks like im this murderer! Save us!
Debating_Horse says2018-09-28T20:40:18.1372947Z
No.

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